Today, Californian singer-songwriter Charlie Hickey joins me to celebrate the National's 2013 album 'Trouble Will Find Me'. We delve into Charlie's childhood relationship with the band, the simple and sparse lyrics and how their affect lets them get away with potentially cheesy earnestness, coming back to the record as an adult, songs about feeling like shit and more. Plus, we talk about Charlie's fantastic new record 'Nervous at Night', recording at producer Marshall Vore's home studio, how you know when a record is finished and more.