5-4

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist. He learned it from the Federalist Society, by watching them steadily shift the terms on which all contemporary legal issues are argued. Now even progressive jurists feel compelled to debate the debate club on its own turf. The Devil is duly impressed.

For more about what Fed Soc hath wrought, check out Amanda Hollis-Brusky's Ideas with Consequences: The Federalist Society and the Conservative Counterrevolution (Oxford University Press, 2019).

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. This episode was fact-checked by Arielle Swedback. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

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First you get the money, then you get the power. But FIRST first you get the law students. This week we're exploring the tentacles of the Federalist Society, and how a so-called debate club pulls levers across government, the legal profession, and academia, to achieve its conservative ideological goals.

Hear more from this episode's contributors:

Vanessa A. Bee is the author of HOME BOUND: An Uprooted Daughter’s Reflections on Belonging (Astra Publishing, 2022).

Andrea Bernstein's reporting with ProPublica and WNYC, about Leonard Leo, is available on On The Media's "We Don't Talk about Leonard" series.

Nancy Gertner is the author of In Defense of Women: Memoirs of an Unrepentant Advocate (Beacon Press, 2011).

Jon Hanson is the director of Harvard Law School's Systemic Justice Project, a problem-centric alternative to the traditional legal-educational mode.

Amanda Hollis-Brusky is the author of Ideas with Consequences: The Federalist Society and the Conservative Counterrevolution (Oxford University Press, 2014).

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. This episode was fact-checked by Arielle Swedback. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon. 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com
* Check out Quince and use my code FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

There's a powerfully connected right-wing organization operating at every elite law school in the nation. It built itself by leveraging the conservative victim complex, the Reagan revolution, networks of judges and activists, and cold hard psycho millionaire cash.  This is the story of the Federalist Society.

If you can't get enough of these monsters, you may want to read The Rise of the Conservative Legal Movement: The Battle for Control of the Law (Princeton, 2008) by Steven Teles, or listen to ProPublica and WNYC's "We Don't Talk About Leonard" series on On the Media.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin and this episode was fact checked by Arielle Swedback. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com
* Check out Quince and use my code FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Every year we like to shout out organizations that inspire us or have deeply embarrassing kompromat on us. Good luck guessing which is which!

https://www.icareaboutcoral.org/

https://shoutyourabortion.com/

https://www.assignedmedia.org/

https://www.librariesforthepeople.org/

https://palestinianfeministcollective.org/

https://www.newalternativesnyc.org/

https://www.projectstreetvet.org/

https://fa.urbanjustice.org/donate/

https://secure.actblue.com/donate/eoy2023pl

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon. 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com
* Check out Quince and use my code FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

This episode was available early to Premium members. If you'd like that kind of perk, consider joining at fivefourpod.com/support.

Ryna Workman and Jinan Chehade were both knocked off the Big Law course they thought they were on, after expressing solidarity with Palestine. Now they're on a mission to make some good trouble.

Thanks for being a 5-4 Premium member! Your support means the world to us!

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com
* Check out Quince and use my code FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Ryna Workman and Jinan Chehade were both knocked off the Big Law course they thought they were on, after expressing solidarity with Palestine. Now they're on a mission to make some good trouble.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon. 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com
* Check out Quince and use my code FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

It's basically impossible to amend our crummy Constitution, as demonstrated by the litany of proposed amendments that have face planted directly into the dustbin of history. 

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon. 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com
* Check out Quince and use my code FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Our nation has laws, procedures, and courts for settling labor disputes. But what if you're a concrete company and you don't wannnnnnnnnnnnnna go through the system that Congress authorized specifically for this purpose? Then you take it to state court baybeeee - and see if SCOTUS will let you sneak out of the National Labor Relations Board process.

Hey, did you know that if you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode? To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com
* Check out Quince and use my code FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Get a load of this - this guy accepted a SALARY for TEACHING at a SCHOOL. Simply not Supreme Court justice material.  Get the guy who sold a house to a billionaire instead.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

Read the book that inspired this episode: Battle for the Marble Palace by Michael Bobelian

Massive thanks to Workers Defense Project in Austin for opening their offices up to us for taping. You can show them some love here! https://workersdefense.org/en/

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com
* Check out Quince and use my code FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

We want to dedicate this episode to Vermont and Maine, the only two states in this whole goddamn country that let everyone exercise their Constitutional right to vote. What are they putting in that syrup? Everywhere else, you've got Richardson v. Ramirez to thank for the movement to disenfranchise people who've been caught up in the criminal punishment system.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. Rachel Ward is our producer. Leon Neyfakh and Andrew Parsons provide editorial support. Our researcher is Jonathan DeBruin, and our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations.

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon. 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Mint Mobile and use my code mintmobile.com/fivefour for a great deal: https://www.mintmobile.com
* Check out Quince and use my code FIVEFOUR for a great deal: https://www.quince.com


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands