Just because something has the word systems in it doesn’t mean it’s actually systemic thinking. In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera of Cornell University expose how disciplines from business to biology love to throw around the term “systems” without actually applying systems thinking—and why that’s a problem.

They’ll break down what real systemic thinking looks like, how to tell the difference between surface-level jargon and true systems thinking, and what we can do to fix this mess. Get ready for a fun, no-BS look at how to stop pretending and start really thinking systemically.