Jordan Peterson sits down with journalist, bestselling author, and founder of Public.News, Michael Shellenberger. They discuss the key moments that ushered in rapid transparency for the U.S., from the Twitter Files to Donald Trump taking the white house. They also explore how new generations can take political responsibility for the future of the West, the need to rebuild trust in public institutions, and how to make every desert bloom.

Michael Shellenberger is the founder of Public, the C.B.R. Chair of Politics, Censorship, and Free Speech at the University of Austin, and the bestselling author of San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities (HarperCollins 2021) and Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All (HarperCollins 2020). He is a Time Magazine "Hero of the Environment," Green Book Award winner, Dao Journalism Prize-winner, and Founder of Civilization Works.

Michael has broken major stories, including on the Twitter Files, for which he won the 2023 Dao Award for journalism; the Censorship Industrial Complex; San Francisco’s cash incentives for homelessness; the “Amazon Forest are the lungs of the world” myth; climate pseudoscience; climate anxiety; the U.S. government support for fracking; and forest management, climate change, and California’s fires.

This episode was filmed on January 14th, 2025

| Links |

For Michael Shellenberger:

On X https://x.com/shellenberger?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Public.News on Substack https://www.public.news/

Michael On Substack https://substack.com/@shellenberger

Preorder Michael’s upcoming book “Pathocracy” https://www.buffalostreetbooks.com/book/9780063421578