Tommy talks with Steve Coll, author of Directorate S: The C.I.A. and America's Secret Wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan, about why the hell we’re still fighting in Afghanistan after 17 years and the destabilizing influence of our nuclear-armed frenemy, Pakistan.

Tommy talks with Steve Coll, author of Directorate S: The C.I.A. and America's Secret Wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan, about why the hell we’re still fighting in Afghanistan after 17 years and the destabilizing influence of our nuclear-armed frenemy, Pakistan.

55: Nuclear-armed frenemies

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Each week, “Pod Save America” cohost Tommy Vietor and Obama’s former Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes break down the biggest developments in foreign policy, national security and global politics. They try to explain which stories matter and why, and what we can all do to understand and shape the world around us.

Subscribe to Friends of the Pod! Your subscription makes Crooked’s work possible and gives you access to ad-free episodes of Pod Save America and Pod Save the World, plus exclusive content and a lively Discord community.  Learn more and subscribe at <a href="https://crooked.com/friends-of-the-pod-subscription/">crooked.com/friends</a> or on Apple Podcasts.

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Each week, “Pod Save America” cohost Tommy Vietor and Obama’s former Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes break down the biggest developments in foreign policy, national security and global politics. They try to explain which stories matter and why, and what we can all do to understand and shape the world around us. Subscribe to Friends of the Pod! Your subscription makes Crooked’s work possible and gives you access to ad-free episodes of Pod Save America and Pod Save the World, plus exclusive content and a lively Discord community. Learn more and subscribe at crooked.com/friends or on Apple Podcasts.

Each week, “Pod Save America” cohost Tommy Vietor and Obama’s former Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes break down the biggest developments in foreign policy, national security and global politics. They try to explain which stories matter and why, and what we can all do to understand and shape the world around us.

Subscribe to Friends of the Pod! Your subscription makes Crooked’s work possible and gives you access to ad-free episodes of Pod Save America and Pod Save the World, plus exclusive content and a lively Discord community.&nbsp; Learn more and subscribe at <a href="https://crooked.com/friends-of-the-pod-subscription/" rel="noopener noreferrer">crooked.com/friends</a> or on Apple Podcasts.

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55: Nuclear-armed frenemies

55: Nuclear-armed frenemies

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