Offline with Jon Favreau

Frances Haugen became one of the most influential whistleblowers in tech history when she revealed in 2021 that Facebook knew the havoc it was wreaking—addicting teenagers, derailing politics, fomenting ethnic violence—and chose to do very little about it.

Now the subject of Aaron Sorkin’s new movie, "The Social Reckoning," Frances joins Offline to reflect on what she learned trying to change Facebook from the inside, and how it applies to the growing number of AI employees who are now wrestling with the same questions. She and Jon discuss whether whistleblowing actually works, what it takes to hold powerful tech companies accountable, and how one person speaking up can get others to act.

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Erin Brockovich has spent three decades helping communities fight the biggest corporations and cruelest environmental injustices, inspiring an Oscar-winning movie along the way. Her latest cause is also her biggest: AI data centers and their insidious arrival to communities across the country. 

After scores of people wrote to her about the alarming influx of hyperscale projects, Erin launched Brockovich Data Center Reporting—which received nearly 4,000 submissions in its first month alone. She sits down with Jon to discuss everything she’s learned, what the industry gets wrong about the backlash, and whether there’s a way to build what we need without screwing over the people who have to live with it.

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From underground compounds to planet-fleeing rockets, tech oligarchs and the MAGA elite aren’t just anticipating an apocalypse—they’re hastening it. Author and climate activist Naomi Klein sits down with Jon to discuss End Times Fascism: And the Fight for the Living World, her new book with Astra Taylor. 

She and Jon trace the connection between the religious right, Silicon Valley elite, and nationalist movements around the world, and uncover how Donald Trump and J.D. Vance are weaponizing the human instinct to protect our own. Then they discuss how to make people feel safer, less prone to zero-sum thinking, and more invested in a future we have to share. 

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Is AI sending us spiraling towards an apocalypse, or upwards towards utopia? How can such a new technology inspire such diametrically opposing viewpoints? 

To understand the dissonance, Jon sits down with Helen Toner, the Executive Director of Georgetown’s Center for Security and Emerging Technology–and one of the OpenAI board members who voted to oust Sam Altman in 2023. 

She shares her firsthand experience of what trying to oversee one of these companies actually involves, insights on where the technology is going, and strategies for what we can do to avoid the scariest outcomes.

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Max Fisher returns to Offline to face the robot apocalypse with Jon. The two discuss Jacob Coxon, the AI researcher who publicly resigned from Anthropic this week, the terrifying claims coming from those working in AI that the technology may kill us all, and what it'll take for politicians to actually attempt to regulate the fast-moving technology. 

But first: Jon shares an exciting announcement about the future of the show.

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Americans don’t trust the government anymore. Annie Lowery, Atlantic staff writer and author of the new book The Time Tax, joins Offline to identify the culprit: a plodding, vindictive, racist bureaucracy that people must navigate to get government services and benefits. The paperwork, lines and emotional strain—just to feed your kids or renew your driver’s license––adds up to a “time tax” that falls most heavily on low-income Americans. Annie and Jon take stock of the Kafka-esque system and discuss why, if Democrats don’t do something to change it, people will continue to tune out the party that wants to build something better.

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Is the right wing’s depiction of academia NOT a complete caricature? Fromer Bates College professor—and current Atlantic staff writer—Tyler Austin Harper joins Offline to break down the legacy of Woke 1 in higher education. 

Tyler’s recent essay, "Confessions of a Token Black Professor" argues that academia’s social justice fixation is just a bandaid for much larger institutional problems; he and Jon discuss how campus wokeism is the same story as that of rising tuition costs, falling admission rates, and increasing exploitation of faculty and staff.

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Every election cycle the question inevitably comes up - will Texas flip? But the biggest story in Texas isn't whether the state will turn blue. It's how the people who live there are redefining what Texas politics looks like. 

Jen, Mitch, and Errin travel across the state to explore immigration, education, faith, and the changing priorities of Texas voters through the voices of the people living those debates every day.

Guests: State Rep. James Talarico, State Sen. Taylor Rehmet, State Rep. Gina Hinojosa, Benny Melendez and Mario Guerrero, Tarrant County Residents

Can the internet foster productive debate in the rage-bait era? Jubilee founder and CEO Jason Y. Lee joins Offline to talk about his company’s massive YouTube channel, known for its viral political debates in series like Surrounded and Middle Ground. 

He and Jon talk about the moral quandary of platforming people like Charlie Kirk, what young people find so captivating about these conflict-ridden videos, and why Jason views his content as chocolate covered broccoli.

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Is economic populism the key to Democrats retaking power in 2026 and 2028? Faiz Shakir, political strategist and founder of the media organization More Perfect Union, joins Offline to make his case that progressive populists are just as—if not MORE—electable than center left candidates. 

He and Jon break down Abdul El-Sayed’s primary win in Michigan, how the progressive movement has evolved since Bernie’s 2016 presidential campaign, and the role of DSA in all of this…both positive and negative.

Hate listening to ads? Become a Friends of the Pod subscriber for ad-free episodes of Pod Save America, Pod Save the World, Lovett or Leave It, Runaway Country, Offline with Jon Favreau, and more—plus exclusive content, including bonus episodes of Pod Save America. Subscribe now at crooked.com/friends, on Apple Podcasts, or through the Pod Save America YouTube channel.

To watch this episode with subtitles, click here and turn on closed captions (CC).

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