November 07, 2023

56. The Long Defeat Is Maybe Going on a Little Too Long.

57 minutes

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Oriana’s choice of topic: the Noldor. Also

termed the Deep-elves and, in early versions of the legendarium, the Gnomes –

thankfully changed given unavoidable associations – they were one of the three

ethnicities of the Eldar in general, the first Children of Iluvatar. As

compared to the serene Vanyar and the many generally lower-key societies of

the Teleri, the Noldor were the ones most driven by the desire to create and

to learn about the world in general, though these tendencies, exacerbated by

Melkor in his Valinorean captivity and the internal family strife of their

royal house, resulted in all the many deeds of fame in Middle-earth on the one

hand but also their near total destruction and eventual fading away on the

other. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, only small societies and remnants

were left, casting an influence on the course of events but not directing

them. What can we learn from the stories of the women of the Noldor in

particular, not just Galadriel but other figures such as Fëanor’s mother

Míriel and his wife Nerdanel or the Nargothrond princess Finduilas? What

throughlines did Tolkien suggest in terms of how the Noldor both seemed the

most human of the Elves as well as being driven by the same ambiguous creative

impulses that haunted any number of beings in the legendarium? How does the

decision to keep them from the center of the many arcs of The Lord of the

Rings help shape the book into being the story that it is? And just how much

of an obsessive creative type do you have to be to not only devise the writing

system for your culture but to insist on sticking to a particular

pronunciation because you’re still mad about how things ended up with your

family?

Show Notes.

Jared’s

doodle.

Plus a bonus Galadriel-as-Carmen Miranda sketch. (The episode provides

context. Sorta.)

Negotiations, negotiations. The SAG-AFTRA strike has a lot of

it.

The new edition of the letters will be out in mid-November.

Holly Ordway’s book Tolkien’s

Faith.

The Bandcamp Daily story on Jim Kirkwood and his early Tolkien-inspired

work.

Some details on Starve Acre, the new

Morfydd Clark/Mat Smith folk horror film.

I mean if you WANT the Tolkien Gateway definition of the

Noldor…

Recommending the Andy Serkis reading of The

Silmarillion

once more!

Our episode on Galadriel.

Turgon via Tolkien Gateway;

relatedly, our episode on The Fall of

Gondolin.

Gildor Inglorion, a truly

fascinating character, as is

Voronwë.

Míriel and

Nerdanel – and they have stories

that were not fully told…

Glorfindel seems like he’s about

to be a major character in The Lord of the Rings…and then he’s not!

We discussed the Kinslaying as part of our episode on

evil.

Ah yes, The Shibboleth of

Fëanor. Boy

this is nuts. And great at the same time.

Then there’s the Oath of

Fëanor. Maybe review the

language first before you sign a contract.

Our episodes on “Leaf by Niggle”

(as part of Tree and Leaf) and Smith of Wootton

Major.

Finduilas – again, would be good

to learn more about her! See also our episode on The Children of

Húrin.

And yes The Wheel of Time is really good. Really!

Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic, on

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By Jared Pechaček, Oriana Scwindt, and Ned Raggett

4.8

3232 ratings