This extra to episode 72 features an additional few minutes with author, systems thinker and regenerative soils educator, Nicole Masters. It stems from the enthralling part of our conversation in the main episode about soil, the microbiome, gut health and our immune systems (from around the 40-minute mark). This triggered a question that I’d thought about a while back, after speaking with Dr Zach Bush on all this for episode 62. What are the implications of all this for the polarised debates around vaccinations?

Title slide: Nicole Masters (supplied).

You can hear the rest of our conversation in the main episode, ‘Restoring the Metropolis of Living Earth: From the chemical paradigm to nature’s paradigm’. 

You’ll find a series of photos on that web page too. 

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TWO PLACES HAVE OPENED UP - Apply now to join us for Confluence 2026, a canoe journey on the spectacular Murray River, Australia, 21-29 March.

Pre-roll music: Heartland Rebel, by Steven Beddall (from Artlist). 

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