A highly enjoyable episode chatting to an old friend Lionel Organ who has excelled in everything he bred. For all he will be known as top sheep breeder this interview also gives a fascinating insight into the world of breeding pigs, where Southam would become one of the top herds of Large Whites in Europe. He tells of the challenges that posed and more importantly the lessons we could learn from carcass development. Then followed the sheep when Lionel again reached the pinnacle of two breeds, Charollais and Lleyn, the former being dispersed 12 years ago, yet still the Southam prefix underpins many top flocks today. We hear about the merits of the Lleyn with which he is still very much involved and is both passionate and proud of where the breed is today.