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Last month, in honor of LGBTQ Pride Month, I interviewed Alejandra Caraballo, a leading advocate for transgender rights. After that episode, I heard from listeners who asked me to interview someone on the other side. As a passionate advocate of free speech and viewpoint diversity, I agreed that it would be appropriate to do so.

My latest podcast guest is Kristen Waggoner, chief executive officer and general counsel of Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), which describes itself as “one of the leading Christian law firms committed to protecting religious freedom, free speech, marriage and family, parental rights, and the sanctity of life.” ADF’s opposition to same-sex marriage, transgender rights, and abortion rights has made it a reviled organization on the legal left.

Although Kristen isn’t popular among progressives, there’s no disputing that she is an influential and newsworthy attorney. For better or worse, ADF has won 15 cases in the U.S. Supreme Court, and three of them were argued personally by Waggoner—including 303 Creative v. Elenis, one of the biggest cases of the just-completed Term. Writing for the six conservatives, Justice Gorsuch held that the First Amendment protects Kristen’s client, website designer Lorie Smith, from being required under Colorado’s public-accommodations law to make websites for same-sex weddings, which she opposes on religious grounds.

In our interview, I posed tough but respectful questions to Kristen about the mission and legal work of ADF, including its designation as a “hate group” by the Southern Poverty Law Center; her recent win in 303 Creative, including an allegation that ADF fabricated one piece of evidence (the “Stewart and Mike” controversy); the next major goal of the conservative legal movement, in the wake of wins like 303 Creative and Dobbs; and her views on “legislating morality” or enshrining Christian views into law (where her comments might surprise you). Despite our many differences—e.g., she opposes same-sex marriage, and I’m in one—I enjoyed and learned a great deal from our conversation, and I’m grateful for her time, insight, and willingness to engage.

Show Notes:

* Kristen Waggoner bio, Alliance Defending Freedom

* Inside the Christian legal powerhouse that keeps winning at the Supreme Court, by Jessica Contrera for the Washington Post

* Meet the Lawyer Who’ll Argue at Supreme Court for Christian Baker’s Right to Free Speech, by Ken McIntyre for the Daily Signal

* The Supreme Court Doesn’t Care That the Gay Wedding Website Case Is Based on Fiction, by Melissa Gira Grant for the New Republic

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