We continue our story with Erik and Ron - moving onto what it was like to shift focus from safety metrics (like TRIR) to prioritizing real human safety outcomes.

We welcome guests Erik (former CEO at Aera Energy) and Ron (Former HSE Manager at Aera Energy) for a mini-series on what it was like to go through a HOP transformation both personally and as a business.

We finish the story of how Andy navigates her own frustration and blame when working with some leaders.

We take a listeners question on how to help people who have started practicing HOP but are struggling with blame shifting from those doing the work to supervisors/investigators. This quickly becomes Matt's favorite episode as we have a conversation with Andy while she is struggling with actively blaming a group of people.

We wrap up the story from episode 40 and discuss how you can bridge the gap from completing operational learning to implementing a solution that may take months to years.

We discuss different ways you can approach seeing someone break a rule and why going in the HOP direction can increase accountability.

Andy and Matt discuss what HOP means to them inside and outside of work. Also, do we feel it is really worth all the extra effort and energy? (spoiler alert - yes)

We use two (hopefully helpful) analogies to describe what we mean when we say "HOP is not a program". Andrea shares a personal story with her daughter about how she applies this change in thought process to resolving conflict.

Andy finishes her "glove story" and shares how she came to understand what "capacity to fail safely" meant.

Andy shares her personal story of understanding what it means to "design differently" in HOP and how we can build more resilient systems.