"What are the right ways that we can change that organizational wiring so that people can actually do work easily and well? That's really the goal and if you can make that happen, that is the key to high performance." In this episode, Adam talks to Gene Kim, author of The Phoenix Project and The Unicorn Project, researcher, DevOps enthusiast, and founder of IT Revolution. The two discuss topics including the concept of the danger zone and the winning zone in organizations, the challenges and consequences of poor leadership on individuals and the broader organization, and the importance of codifying and sharing knowledge to drive positive change. Gene also shares his journey in the world of technology, what motivates him, and his advice for the SAFe community. Like what you hear? Connect with Gene on LinkedIn. Explore SAFe courses here.