We kick off the episode with 5 painful minutes of discussion on Brent's hernia surgery before making it into a discussion on fairness, diversity, psychological safety, and other stuff. And we talk about a lot of books.

We talk a bit about Alan's recent AMA on the future of test automation and then about his past with Microsoft Teams.

We dive (wade? splash??) into some listener questions on Theory of Constraints applied to different aspects of software development and Modern Testing.

We're joined by Nick and Todd from https://reflect.run to talk about the future of test automation (sort of) and developers creating UI automation. We loved having these folks on the show, and hope you enjoy the conversation.

In this episode, we discuss deep vs. shallow testing, choosing what to automate, and the future of testing roles (sort of).

The link we discuss is https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/15-1253.00

We discuss Alan's experiences at TestingFestival, talk a bit about DevOps and answer (sort of) a mailbag question on BDD

We talk more about Lencioni's working genius model, and attempt to attach it to a mailbag question about how projects get done in a modern testing world.

We discuss one of the age-old questions of software testing. How does a "manaual tester" 'get into' automation. 

We dive into our history of personality type tests. Starting with the classic MBTI, we move to Insights, Strengths Finders, and then Working Genius (we also briefly mention our Harry Potter houses).

This time we talk a bit about learning (including an upcoming webinar from alan - https://www.meetup.com/Pacific-NW-Software-Quality-Conference-PNSQC/events/276239634, and talk about quality vs. testing - which is just another framing of principle 5 of the modern testing principles.