We talk a little about work place perks (for reasons unknown), and then talk more about the new fun challenges with Alan's new org.

Eventually, we talk about how we could gear the Modern Testing Principles more towards development teams.

We attempt to talk about coaching and quality coaching...and we do - mostly.

We chat a bit about the rise (?) of Modern Testing practices in the industry, and then look at a few TestSphere cards - and eventually end up talking a whole lot about data.

We kick off the episode with 5 painful minutes of discussion on Brent's hernia surgery before making it into a discussion on fairness, diversity, psychological safety, and other stuff. And we talk about a lot of books.

We talk a bit about Alan's recent AMA on the future of test automation and then about his past with Microsoft Teams.

We dive (wade? splash??) into some listener questions on Theory of Constraints applied to different aspects of software development and Modern Testing.

We're joined by Nick and Todd from https://reflect.run to talk about the future of test automation (sort of) and developers creating UI automation. We loved having these folks on the show, and hope you enjoy the conversation.

In this episode, we discuss deep vs. shallow testing, choosing what to automate, and the future of testing roles (sort of).

The link we discuss is https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/15-1253.00

We discuss Alan's experiences at TestingFestival, talk a bit about DevOps and answer (sort of) a mailbag question on BDD