Two interviews that speak to what happens when the Abundance agenda meets local politics. Yesim Sayin of DC Policy Center on creating a research and advocacy ecosystem to push state-level policy to enable more housing construction. Their report: https://t.ly/jhuaF. And Declan Cullen of George Washington University on how cities deal with tech disrupters like Uber and self-driving car companies Waymo, and Zoox. Music by Kara Levchenko.