How can you make your podcast more accessible to people who are deaf and hard of hearing? It goes without saying that we don’t know what we don’t know. When it comes to how people with auditory differences—such as those who are deaf and hard of hearing—interact with our podcasts, the only way to learn how to do better and make those episodes more accessible is to ask. And that’s exactly what this episode does.

Kellina Powell is an author and speaker who helps deaf and hard-of-hearing women express themselves with confidence in a hearing world. Tuck in your earbuds and get ready to listen and learn as Mary and Kellina discuss the nuances of engaging with podcasts as a hard-of-hearing listener. How big a role does video play? Is all the effort we put into creating transcripts paying off? Kellina weighs in with helpful transparency from first-hand experience about the accessibility questions you’ve always wanted to ask.

Learn from Kellina’s unique perspective of the audible world:

• How your microphone affects sounds picked up during recording
• The difference in how hearing and hard-of-hearing people filter ambient noise
• How we can make our transcripts more accessible to those who need them
• How to respectfully ask questions about accessibility

Links worth mentioning from the episode:

• Episode 84 “Simplify Your Workflow to Keep Your Podcasting Passion Alive with Craig Constantine” - https://www.organizedsound.ca/simplify-your-workflow-to-keep-your-podcasting-passion-alive-with-craig-constantine-episode-84/

Engage with Kellina:

• Buy Kellina’s book, “Everyday I Am Just Deaf” - https://bookshop.org/p/books/everyday-i-am-just-deaf-life-in-a-hearing-world-with-deaf-queen-boss-kellina-powell/18522433?ean=9781778112102
• Connect with Kellina - https://www.kellinaempowerment.com/

Connect with Mary!

• Leave a voice note with your feedback at https://www.speakpipe.com/VisibleVoice or email [email protected]
• Get the full transcript of the episode at http://www.visiblevoicepodcast.com
• Read up on more secrets with the Visible Voice Insights Newsletter https://www.organizedsound.ca/newsletter
• To learn more or work with Mary, check out https://www.organizedsound.ca
• Link up on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/marychan-organizedsound/
• Engage on Instagram @OrganizedSoundProductions https://www.instagram.com/organizedsoundproductions

Show Credits:

• Podcast audio design, engineering, and edited by Mary Chan of Organized Sound Productions
• Show notes written by Shannon Kirk of Right Words Studio
• Post-production support by Kristalee Forre of Forre You VA
• Podcast cover art by Emily Johnston of Artio Design Co.

Transcript with Audio Description:

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MARY: You don't know what you don't know. And that goes for all sorts of things, not just any podcasting. But in the world of accessibility that is especially true. We can't create an environment to support accessibility features until we understand how someone actually interacts with it. Not what all the gurus and experts are telling us, but actual people. All the good and the bad things, what works, what doesn't. This usability aspect is really important to know. 

But in podcasting, an audio medium, how accessible are they to people who are hard of hearing? How do you create podcasts that can be more accessible in an audio-focused world? For some insight, I reached out to Kellina Powell, the Deaf Queen Boss. Kellina empowers deaf and hard of hearing women to express themselves fully and be heard in the hearing world with confidence. We recorded this conversation at the height of 2024, in the summer heat. So it was really hot out where she lives in the Toronto area. And I took this opportunity to let her A, feel at ease with the tech that she wanted to use for our recording. So in this case an iPad, so she could have captions automatically since we were not using video for the recording. And then B, I also realized for you as the listener, since she's outside, you can actually hear how things are recorded and heard from her point of view. 

So you'll hear it all and I want you to hear all of it. Not all podcasts are recorded in quiet rooms. So I wanted to use this episode as a great example of what it can be like when audio is used in a natural outdoors environment versus a closed environment. You'll hear the difference, because she'll be outside and I'll be in my quiet space. So what I've done differently with this episode is the editing. I slowly faded out her side of the recording when I'm speaking, so you can hear the difference. But there were also some spots that I left in while I was speaking. So you can hear her background too, because different mics record differently and the environment you're in plays a significant role in the outcome of your audio. 

So there were spots where I was talking and her background was full of great noise. As in you could hear the wind, birds chirping, traffic in the background, and there was even a siren happening at one point. It all gets amplified when a microphone comes into play. A lot of people, for those who do have full hearing capabilities, they block out all of that stuff. Your brain knows that's background, and in that natural environment, your brain just filters it out. But with the microphone, it's recording all of that and playing it back into your headphones or your speakers. And I feel like that's how someone who is hearing impaired and uses a hearing device might actually hear the world. 

So keep that in mind when you record your podcast or have a guest on, because even someone like Craig Constantine, who was my guest from episode 84, he talked about being hard of hearing, an invisible disability that I didn't even know about, until he mentioned it on the show. So you never know who is hearing or wants to hear your show, but has a really challenging time. So I want you to listen in not only for what Kellina is saying in this episode, which is so really important to elevate accessibility in podcasts, but also for the sound itself of the episode and what role sound plays into your own podcast recordings. 

This is episode 88 with Kellina Powell on the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice.

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MARY: Kellina, thank you so much for joining me on the show. 

[INTRO MUSIC ENDS]

I'm really excited to talk to you about your experience as a listener, as a guest, all the stuff for podcasting.

KELLINA : Woohoo! I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

MARY: Okay, let's talk first about your listening experience. As a listener of podcasts, Take me through some of your struggles that happens when you're listening to podcasts.

KELLINA: So I guess I would start with is when, during COVID So during COVID it was not acceptable for people who had deaf or hard of hearing. And I think it was just because technology was very new to everybody. Not everybody knew how to be accessible at the time. And for me, when I started listening to a podcast through my cell phone, even though I had a hearing aid Bluetooth in my ears, it was really great and everything. But until I realized that it's very hard to find, like, a subtitle that can go along with or even just a description of the podcast alone and what's happening. It was very hard in the beginning because I couldn't follow through until I actually started listening to podcasts on YouTube. So that actually helped me to listen to podcasts.

MARY: I didn't even think about that aspect of it because YouTube does have that captioning.

KELLINA: Yes.

MARY: Do you ever use Apple podcasts?

KELLINA: I did a couple of times, but not often.

MARY: Okay. Because since March of this year, in 2024, they've included transcripts that you can follow along with. So I was just also wondering, from a listener perspective, do transcripts actually help at all?

KELLINA: Sometimes it does. And sometimes it doesn't, unfortunately. Sometimes it cuts off. So know when you're speaking or even when someone's speaking fast, sometimes it doesn't pick up everything that someone's talking, unfortunately. Or sometimes it's not active all the time, like consistent, right? Sometimes your iPhone may act up or, you know, maybe you need to upgrade a new software, because I know a lot of people have been complaining about they always have to be consistent with new iPhone software, which is annoying for some people, right? Like for me, I didn't know that there was a closed caption that was coming up in March until I tried in April and I couldn't find it on my phone. And it was so hard because I had to upgrade my phone. I'm like, are you kidding? So sometimes it gets annoying.

MARY: Yeah, it's like the tech is helpful, but not always.

KELLINA: Exactly.

MARY: Yeah, and then there's also, I think as an industry as a whole, when we talk about transcripts, there is that difference between like a caption or subtitles, which is normally like a YouTube visual aspect, and then transcript, where it can be a separate document. And sometimes for myself, if I'm looking for a transcript just to like, figure out like the exact words somebody said or to do some research, or something like that. Transcripts are hard to find in terms of, is it on the website? Do I have to go into an app to find it? So that type of a transcript, when you're actually getting a document to read through, is something like that helpful at all?

KELLINA: It gets annoying, right? There's some people that don't even bother looking. For me personally, I don't have the energy to do that. People always ask me like, do you ever look for them? And I said no, if I can't find where it's coming from and I have to do the extra work, unfortunately they're going to lose me as a listener, because you didn't have an easy way of getting access to subtitle or description.

MARY: Yeah, it's that layer of friction, right?

KELLINA: Mhm.

MARY: So you gravitate towards YouTube because that currently it works for you?

KELLINA: Exactly. 100%, yeah.

MARY: Huh. What else works for you though?

KELLINA: What else helped me, especially listening to a podcast, is the microphone. A lot of people don't realize this. A lot of times, when they're talking on the microphone. I can tell the difference when someone talking through the headset versus the microphone, the professional microphone. Some people did not realize that. 

And I remember, I think it was a lady I did a podcast for and she was talking through her headset right before the bluetooth AirPod came out, the long wired one. So those long wired ones are not good. And I could tell, remember, I'm like, oh, are you using the long wired headset? And she's like, how do you know? I said, oh, because there's down with the microphone on it. So a lot of time people need to be mindful when they're using the microphone.

MARY: Yeah. Because it does record and pick up, like all the nuance and the different frequencies. And is that one of the issues where you're missing a frequency that you can't hear?

KELLINA: Yes, 100%.

MARY: So then I also wonder, what about like, then on Zoom? Because a lot of interviews are done over Zoom, and I'm sure, like now in our digital post-pandemic world and stuff, like, zoom is a huge thing, but they have the noise cancellation algorithm, and so it actually cuts a lot of the higher end frequencies too. Like as an audio editor, that's what I see. So, how much of a struggle is it to listen to a podcast that you can probably tell has been recorded on Zoom?

KELLINA: It's okay on Zoom. As long does the closed caption on it, I'm okay with it, but again, it really depends on someone's background noise or if they have a lot of like something that rubbing against the microphone, right? Because sometimes people. I remember one time I had to pause the sky and I said, hey, like, there's a lot of noise on your microphone. I don't know what's going on, but it's irritating my ears, because a lot of people don't know this. My hearing aid is bluetooth, so I actually hear it straight through my hearing aid instead of the speaker, so. Which is kind of cool. So, I could tell like so many different ways, especially through Zoom, it's kind of tricky because sometimes Zoom clash a little bit, especially with the microphone, and sometimes it's not always clear.

MARY: Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize how much a microphone can actually pick up sound. This is something that I learned when I worked in radio, right? Like, somebody would be like, jangling their keys in their pocket while they're talking and the microphone just picks that all up. So it amplifies that sound. 

KELLINA: Yes. [LAUGHTER]

MARY: Or like click, clicking a pen. That happens a lot too. And then you're like, all you can hear is the pen clicking and not the person talking.

KELLINA: Yeah. Especially the pen that is clicking. And you know when people need something to play with on their hand. Oh, my god. Yes. It happened A couple of times. Even when I'm listening to a podcast, I hear a lot.

MARY: Yeah, because like you said, it's like, right in your ear with the. With the bluetooth hearing aid.

KELLINA: Yeah, exactly.

MARY: I can only imagine it's like that pen is clicking right next to your head.

KELLINA: Yes, it is. Yes, it's annoying. But I mean, hey, like, they always say they're superpowers, so.

MARY: Oh, totally. Hearing is your superpower now. Let's get into, like, more of this side of being a guest on a show. You know, we can make as much of an educated guest, you know, me as a host, to try and be more accessible. But I'm sure it really varies person to person. But on an overall level, what do you want podcast hosts to think about when we are hosting our podcasts? From your perspective, when you are a guest on our show.

KELLINA: I would say definitely prepare a script for people, right? You don't want to put people on the spot, especially someone who is deaf and hard of hearing. You don't want them to not follow the dialogue. How do you want the podcast to go? That's one. And number two, be prepared, right? What I mean by be prepared is just, you know, ask someone come on the call five or ten minutes before the actual podcast time to test out technology. Because technology has its own days, honestly. It really does. You just never know. 

And so I always tell people, you know, prepare, right? It's very important so that way we can understand you just in case if there's some changes that needs to be addressed. Just making sure the closed caption is there. Just really prepare. Because I know like, a lot of time when I go on podcast, they don't prepare. And then until the time comes, and then we go through a little, you know, conflict. But that's number two. Number three, definitely, definitely, you know, let people know about your sound quality. A lot of time, podcasters don't think about it. Like you said, they just go on, the guests just go on there and just talk. But sometimes they don't understand and realize that sound quality is super important, especially if you need someone to hear you very well. 

And lastly, I would say your speech. Be mindful how you're speaking to someone, because I noticed that sometimes when I go on podcasts, it's okay to be nervous, but some people need to talk a little bit slower. Some people need to talk more softer when they're interacting with someone who is hard of hearing, especially being a podcast, knowing that it's not face to face because we are lip readers and some of you may not know this, a lot of deaf and hard of hearing individuals rely on lip reading. So if you want to make sure that your guest can see your lips during the call, right? Don't be in the dark. Don't have anything covering your mouth. It's very important that you have the space bright and very clear. So that way we can read your lips during the conversation.

MARY: Oh, that's such a good point too. Or like with me, I have this big microphone, so making sure like the microphone isn't blocking that angle so that you could see, if you needed it. Yeah, that's, that's some great points especially too, like my show, there is no video portion and we met first on Zoom. So like, as the listener can paint a picture of what was happening with me and you and the beforehand before we recorded, again yeah, I wasn't sure if you needed that video portion or not and I asked you ahead of time and then we moved on to clean feed. 

So now that we're partway through this conversation and we're on cleanfeed.net recording this, there is no video portion. You said you have the captioning going on. How is this experience for you so far being a guest on my show, at least?

KELLINA: [LAUGHS] It's pretty wild because your microphone very clear. For me is to follow through and your tone is very well. I'm not like struggling to hear because you're talking too fast or you have background noises or anything like that. So far it's okay, but I do love having the caption. Sometimes on my iPad it does have automatic caption, so sometimes I don't have to ask for a caption. So first of all, it's okay.

MARY: Okay. Is your captioning working with this? Just curious.

KELLINA: Yes, it is.

MARY: Okay, awesome. Okay good to know for like future for myself [LAUGHS] or for anyone who is going to use this similar setup.

KELLINA: Yeah.

MARY: Okay. If you hosted your own show though, what would you incorporate that you find would be helpful, but many shows aren't doing.

KELLINA: That's a really good question. I have been seeing a lot of improvements with a lot of podcaster hosts. I would say if I were to have my own show, it would have been a lot more like YouTube short, just talking, discussion. And obviously it's going to have closed caption and I'm not going to have a big microphone in front of my lips. I will have that small microphone attached to my clothes so that people can be able to see. Very bright, so that people can see my lip reading. That's how I would do something different.

MARY: Because I come from radio and now this audio only podcast. The video stuff is also very new to the podcasting industry as a whole. Not new as in, it's brand new. It's been tried before, but now the, the features of it is really picking up and people are having their podcast on YouTube. So, then I was also curious, do you prefer a podcast that have that lip reading, visual person aspect, or do you ever listen to a podcast on YouTube that's just a static image?

KELLINA: I personally wish they that, I prefer video.

MARY: Yeah.

KELLINA: And I guess it's because it's a lot easier and I don't have to rely on closed captions so heavily. And I know sometimes, you know, people pick up things different than others. For me, I pick up a lot faster when I'm reading your lips and when there's very clear background noises and even just a clear, brightness on the show. But I can't do audio just because I don't have to keep like rewinding it again to make sure I understand what's being said. 

So a lot of time, like myself, I noticed that if I just listen to audio only, I keep rewinding it so many times because I'm missing so many words. I'm like, oh my God, what did she say again? And I'm trying to process what the person said as well, right? Especially when you're reading closed caption. You're multitasking. You're also listening at the same time. So that's why I prefer video.

MARY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking too about like, like I was saying before, transcripts are almost the quick and easy checklist of like oh, I've done my accessibility feature, I have a transcript for my podcast. But if we have that layer of friction and it, you know, makes you do the work to either find the transcript, listen to it on the website instead of your preferred platform, then what can we do with that transcript to make it more accessible, if any, as a podcast host?

KELLINA: Oh, yeah, for sure, 100%. I just feel like using a transcript is a lot easier than anything else. And always hover at the bottom even if you cannot make a very long one. Just write a summary of what the podcast is about. At least do that for us so that way we understand. Okay, what's the comment conversation you want to be like, what's it about? To give us an idea and give us a heads up.

MARY: Oh yeah, like, so what you're talking about Is like the description for that episode on your app or YouTube or what have you, right?

KELLINA: Yeah, that's right.

MARY: Yeah. So yeah, we call that your, the episode description or your show notes. And yes, I, I find too like some people don't actually put a description in and I'm like, well, but what am I listening to? What, what are we getting ourselves into here? 

KELLINA: Exactly, it's like what's going on, you guys? Like you guys. Especially for those who've been doing podcasts for over two plus years and some of them still don't. And I question them all the time. And I'm like, has anybody ever spoken to you how important it is to have it? But yeah, I'd be surprised a lot of time too.

MARY: What then also makes an effective transcript because you can just have the words of, you know, people talking. But what about like, all the other sound aspects?

KELLINA: Like other sounds in terms of like, background noise or like microphone wise.

MARY: So one of the things that I do with my transcript again is like, I don't know, is this actually useful, is when say for example in this conversation we have a spot, where you know, we're laughing a little bit or there's a bit of sarcasm and then just having in square brackets laughter or sound effect, whatever the sound effect is. You know, if I was talking about pen clicking and I was actually clicking a pen, would it be helpful to actually write in sound effect? Pen clicking?

KELLINA: It would be helpful but it also depends how you are going around about it. It depends really, but it could be helpful.

MARY: Okay, so then outside of podcasting specific apps you were talking about like closed captioning with your iPad, there's accessibility features on devices. My Android phone, I have Live Transcribe that I can use while listening to a podcast. But how accurate or usable are features like this? Or would you just prefer it to be like those YouTube subtitles?

KELLINA: I would say YouTube. I don't know why, I'm sorry everybody, but YouTube is my thing. Okay… 

MARY: Yeah, totally. 

[LAUGHTER]

KELLINA: …I don't know you guys. Like, I guess because YouTube was already there and they were already showing so much more and I feel like the energy was there. You can see the people energy versus just listening. You can't. Yes. You can tell about the energy through the voice. But I don't know. I prefer YouTube 100%

MARY: Yeah, I feel like that visual aspect does help support the hearing part in your life.

KELLINA: Oh yeah 100%.

MARY:  So that's more of a preference. And everyone has their own preference. So you know…

KELLINA: Exactly

MARY: …like there's some people who are like, I don't do video at all. I can't stand video. I want to just like…

KELLINA: [LAUGHS] I get it.

MARY:  …take my headphones with me and go somewhere. So it's totally a preference.

KELLINA: Exactly, I totally get it. And I told everybody, uh, like, your style is going to be super different. If you are not someone who don't like video, you don't have time for editing, that's okay. You can just upload it and just make sure that the closed caption is there for YouTube and that's it. You don't have to do much, especially if you are someone who prefer video.

MARY: Okay, what about a podcasting industry or the individual podcast hosts? What can we do to improve the accessibility from its current state?

KELLINA: I mean, like I said before, just really making sure that everybody feels welcome. Making sure that you are asking the right question. There's no such thing as a dumb question. I get that a lot. Kellina, I'm gonna ask you a dumb question. I don't know if there's no such thing as a dumb question. Because you don't know, right? You will never know unless you ask. So always ask the correct question that you are concerned, worried about, and don't be afraid to ask. And I would say that's the most important thing is always ask. Especially if you don't know. You don't want to just go through the podcast and you never ask them, and then your podcast results don't come out great.

MARY: I also, though, feel like I don't want to offend. So, like, I don't. Maybe I just don't know what the right question to ask is. So how do you go about that?

KELLINA: So usually I always tell people before you ask a question, my favourite line is, hey, I may ask you something, but it might be offensive or it might be stupid. But is it okay I can ask you something? And then ask your question.

MARY: Mhm. Yeah. Because I feel like people, you know, they have a good heart. You know, they want to be informed, they want to learn and, but then they also, like, don't want to feel like they're making you do all the work, I suppose. Or offending you.

KELLINA: Exactly. And I feel like some people need to understand that when you do so much work, you're giving yourself so much work, so much headache, where you should have just asked right.

MARY: Mmm, mhm. So, yeah, going back to that point of I don't know what I don't know. So is there something from this conversation that we haven't touched on that you feel like you want to speak up on now?

KELLINA: I just want people to understand that it's okay to ask dumb questions, everyone, it's okay. [LAUGHTER] It's okay. At the end of the day, you have to remember it's your show, right? But you also want to make sure it's comfortable for everybody else. That's pretty much it.

MARY: Awesome. So then to round out the conversation, I ask everybody, what are you excited about podcasting right now?

KELLINA: I just love impacting other people that I don't even know. And that's why I love continuing going on podcasts, you know, and because it's so fascinating to really see how people are curious to know what are the individuals like as a deaf person, right? 90% of the time, every time I talk to a host, they never had a deaf person, so they're very excited to ask me questions. And so I just love the lightness of seeing the whole space to understand what it is like. So, yeah, I love it.

MARY: Yeah, I love it too, because then I can, like, research and meet people and have an excuse to meet people, right? Instead of just randomly finding someone saying, oh, you're kind of cool. Can we meet up and have a coffee date or something? [LAUGHTER] This like, hey, I have a podcast. Let's have a chat. [LAUGHS]

KELLINA: Exactly 100%. It's very cool how you can meet so many people, especially people you did not think you could meet. So it's definitely a cool way to connect with people.

MARY: Kellina, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and opinion with me.

KELLINA: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. Thank you.

[MUSIC IN]

MARY: I had such a great conversation with Kellina. I loved it. It was so fun. And going back through it, it really got me thinking more about transcripts. As Kellina said early on in the episode, it's a layer of friction for her to use the transcript if it's only housed on your website, and then people have to go searching for it. What seems to work better is if the transcript is already there within the podcast listening app. 

But I know not everybody uses the same podcast listening app. Yes, there are some popular ones. So, I'm testing this out to put the transcript in the show notes. So ever since this episode was recorded in the summer, any of my episodes since the fall of 2024, I've included the transcript in the body of the show notes, so you'll have it in your podcast listening app. I was doing some tests because people also wonder if a large chunk of text like a transcript, would get cut off. But most apps so far have been displaying it, like Spotify. 

An accurate transcript is actually a lot of work, and I might talk about this more in a future episode. But for now, I like having my transcripts at the bottom of the show notes, so at least it's guaranteed to be on whichever app the person is listening on. So for the most part, I do like this approach. There are some drawbacks. Like I said, some apps do not display all the words because like, Apple Podcasts, they have a character maximum limit on the text. But Apple Podcasts also is trying to improve accessibility and they have a specific field for transcripts, at least on the app itself. Not on the web version of Apple Podcasts, but the web version, much like the app, has a link to the website episode page, which I do utilize, so they can click on that. But again, it's a lot of work to get to a transcript. 

So like I said, for now, it's great that the podcasting industry as a whole is trying more accessible features like what Apple Podcasts is doing with their transcripts and the app. But again, if podcasting listening apps are not really accessible, is it also worth the effort of creating an accurate transcript? Creating the transcript is one thing, but does displaying them is another beast altogether and how they're used. 

So for research purposes and looking for quotes, yes, the transcript on your website might be better formatted and easier to read, but the accessible part, I believe that needs to live as plain text on your show notes, your episode description field. So that way, no matter what formatting the podcast app uses, whether they have a transcript field or not, there is still a spot to display it. That's my stance, at least for this moment in time as technology exists. But like I said, I think I'll get into more detail about this in a future episode next season. 

This episode is also a great reminder for podcasters too. So in general, that reminder to use headphones and to be able to monitor, to listen in, to what is being recorded on your microphone. Yes, having headphones on means you don't have to use the echo cancellation or noise reduction algorithms on some of your online recording platforms, but also to actually get a sense of what is being recorded. If you are monitoring or listening in to what your microphone is picking up. 

Sometimes there are settings where you don't hear what's being recorded, and that's going to be hard to get around, but if you have that option, definitely use it. This way you do hear everything that the microphone is being recorded. So even in your quiet room, if you're by a window, you can still hear the car driving by, a train in the background, that pen clicking that. I was mentioning earlier, it's all going right into your ears because you're wearing your headphones and your microphone is picking it up. And of course you can monitor it. You can hear it. So I think we can use this very simple scenario, too, to get a very small glimpse and experience of what it could mean for someone who's hard of hearing, who uses a hearing aid, either listening to your show or being a guest on your show. And I never thought of some of these aspects, and I'm so grateful for Kellina who brought up these aspects to my attention. And we can now sort of use this podcasting experience as an easy way to sort of put yourself in someone else's shoes. 

So thank you so much, Kellina, for coming on the show to share your experiences and doing the work for us, who live so much more easily in this hearing world. I so appreciate the conversation. 

On the next episode. It is the final episode of the season before we hunker down into the end of the year and I have my year end break. So far throughout the year, I've been compiling questions, so I'm going to be doing a Q&A. If you have any questions that you want me to answer about podcasting, I'm all ears. I want you to send me your questions, either leaving a voice note on my website, VisibleVoicePodcast.com or drop me an email. Write me your questions at [email protected]. 

And like Kellina said towards the end of the EP episode, no question is a stupid question. You just need to ask. So bring it on. I'd love to start your 2025 strong. Whether you plan on launching your first or next show, going into another season of your podcast, or even picking up your podcast after a hiatus, I've got answers to your podcasting thoughts. So ask away and your question could appear on the next episode. So until then, speak with spirit. 

[MUSIC ENDS]

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MARY: Thank you so much for listening to the Podcaster's Guide to a Visible Voice. If you enjoyed this episode, I'd love it if you share it with a podcasting friend. And to reveal more voicing and podcasting tips, click on over to VisibleVoicePodcast.com. Until next time.

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