Across the Sky

Weather and cars do not get along. Each year, about 21% of car crashes in the United States involve adverse weather conditions, resulting in thousands of injuries and deaths. We can't prevent bad weather, but new technology is being developed to keep drivers safer.

Dr. Scott Mackaro, the head of Insights and Innovation for Vaisala Xweather, joins the podcast this week to talk about road weather data. Why is it so difficult for drivers to receive accurate information on road conditions? What can be done to make it more easily accessible? The team also looks ahead to the future and discusses how self-driving cars could be the ultimate key to minimizing weather-related crashes and when that day may come.

We want to hear from you!

Have a question for the meteorologists? Call 609-272-7099 and leave a message. You might hear your question and get an answer on a future episode! You can also email questions or comments to [email protected].

About the Across the Sky podcast

A weekly podcast discussing all things weather and climate. The podcast is hosted by the meteorologists of the Lee Weather Team:

Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.

Check out our sponsor, WeatherCall NexGen!

Receive precise, location-specific weather alerts via phone, text, or email. With over a decade of experience, WeatherCall delivers pinpoint accuracy for your exact address, ensuring no surprises. Explore the WeatherCall difference today! Visit: https://weathercallservices.com/lee-enterprises

According to NOAA and NASA, 2023 was the hottest year on record, as greenhouse gases from fossil fuels continue to increase. Renewable energy sources are scaling up, but how fast is the transitioning happening, and what are the roadblocks? Andrew Dessler from Texas A&M joins the team to talk candidly about energy solutions to climate change.

We want to hear from you!

Have a question for the meteorologists? Call 609-272-7099 and leave a message. You might hear your question and get an answer on a future episode! You can also email questions or comments to [email protected].

About the Across the Sky podcast

The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:

Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The month of January is often considered the most depressing of the year. The holidays are over, credit card bills are coming due, and the days are short and cold. While many suffer from the winter blues, for some it's a more serious condition known as seasonal affective disorder or SAD for short.

Jasmine Wilson with the Ascension Medical Group joins the podcast this week for an in-depth discussion of SAD and how the weather plays a role in triggering it. She explains the symptoms that are characteristic of SAD, who is most vulnerable, and what treatments are available to overcome it.

We want to hear from you!

Have a question for the meteorologists? Call 609-272-7099 and leave a message. You might hear your question and get an answer on a future episode! You can also email questions or comments to [email protected].

About the Across the Sky podcast

The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:

Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

2024 has arrived, but we can't start a new year without looking back at the previous year. There was plenty of weather to talk about in 2023. The United States saw a record number of billion-dollar weather disasters, so picking the biggest weather stories of the year was not easy.

Ten events stood out to our meteorologists the most though. The team discusses each one from the beginning of the year until the end. From a phenomenal deluge in Florida, unprecedented levels of smoke, to a raging firestorm in Hawaii, the weather in 2023 will not soon be forgotten.

We want to hear from you!

Have a question for the meteorologists? Call 609-272-7099 and leave a message. You might hear your question and get an answer on a future episode! You can also email questions or comments to [email protected].

About the Across the Sky podcast

The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:

Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week marks the official start of winter, arguably the most polarizing season of all. While some enjoy the spirit of the holidays, others bemoan the short, cold days. While some love the sight of fresh snow on the ground, others dread having to break out the the snow shovels and ice scrapers again.

Regardless of how you feel about winter, there's a lot of weather to talk about, so this week the Lee Weather Team breaks down their top 10 things to know about the season. From how snow forms, why wind makes cold weather feel so much worse, winter storm safety, to a rare form of precipitation called graupel, it's a discussion of the most important and interesting things about winter.

We want to hear from you!

Have a question for the meteorologists? Call 609-272-7099 and leave a message. You might hear your question and get an answer on a future episode! You can also email questions or comments to [email protected].

About the Across the Sky podcast

The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:

Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's well known that snow, wind, and rain impacts whether or not people go out of their house to shop. What​'s lesser known is how the amount of rain and snow impacts how much online shopping Americans do. John Cardinale, a meteorologist and Director of Search Engine Optimization for Tapestry (owners of Coach, Kate Spade, and more), joins the podcast to discuss what trends he's seen and what companies are doing to drive online sales based on the weather.

We want to hear from you!

Have a question for the meteorologists? Call 609-272-7099 and leave a message. You might hear your question and get an answer on a future episode! You can also email questions or comments to [email protected].

About the Across the Sky podcast

The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:

Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bob Dylan, the world renowned musical artist whose career now spans seven decades, has kept weather core to his writing.

How so? Out of approximately 465 total Dylan songs, the word 'sun' is found in 63 different ones, 'wind' in 55, 'rain' in 40, and 'sky' in 36. 'Cloud', 'storm', 'summer', 'snow', and just 'weather' have been used in dozens more. Alan Robock, Distinguished Professor in the Department of Environmental Sciences at Rutgers University wrote all about this in his 2004 journal article Tonight as I stand in the Rain: Bob Dylan and Weather Imagery. 

Robock, who just attended his 49th Bob Dylan show in November 2023, joins the podcast crew to take an inside look into Dylan's weather lyrics. Robock explores Dylan's weather topics, like whether you need a weatherman to see which way the wind blows (Subterranean Homesick Blues). Robock also hypothesizes why Dylan sings about the weather so much and more. 

We want to hear from you!

Have a question for the meteorologists? Call 609-272-7099 and leave a message. You might hear your question and get an answer on a future episode! You can also email questions or comments to [email protected].

About the Across the Sky podcast

The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:

Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do you get when you blend athletic skill with a love for weather? An elite ninja warrior, of course!

Joe Moravsky is a meteorologist and the manager of the Stamford Ninja Academy in Connecticut. He has appeared on multiple seasons of the hit NBC series "American Ninja Warrior" and is one of the show's most successful contestants.

Moravsky shares his unique story and discusses his background in weather and athletics on this week's episode.

We want to hear from you!

Have a question for the meteorologists? Call 609-272-7099 and leave a message. You might hear your question and get an answer on a future episode! You can also email questions or comments to [email protected].

About the Across the Sky podcast

The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:

Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Ninja Warrior Weatherman Forecasts His Future

Lee Enterprise National Weather podcast features Joe Moravsky from American Ninja Warrior

Joe Martucci: Welcome back to another episode of the across the Sky Podcast, our Lee Enterprise National Weather podcast. We are joined with you from our meteorologist across the country. With us, today, Matt Holiner in Chicagoland, Sean Sublette over in Richmond, Virginia. Kirsten could not be with us today, but he will be back soon enough, of course, as we, go through the months and the year ahead, guys. So we've done sports in weather before, but we've never actually interviewed somebody who does sports and is a meteorologist. And we're going to have that for the first time today, as we welcome on Joe Morvasky from American Ninja Warrior. They call him the Weatherman, not just because that's what they just decide to call him, but he is a meteorologist. He got a meteorology degree, and we're very happy to have him.

Matt Holiner: Yeah, there are not many meteorologists who are also athletes. We're kind of a nerdy bunch. And so, athletics is, for most of us. Most of us, it's, not our forte. We're more, into the books a little bit. The sciency nerds. Although I'd like to think we're the cool science nerds. We do focus on the cool part of science. Meteorology, I think, is the one that more people are like, oh, I like that kind of science. Maybe not so much the physics and chemistry. So I would say we were a cooler science, but, not too many of us athletically inclined. I'm certainly one. So it was really cool to chat with him about how he mixed these two worlds, how he kind of broke the mold of a meteorologist and really, got into the athletic side and how he got involved with American Ninja warrior, because that is very much a niche we're talking about in the sports world. That is a very big niche. So chatting with him about his interest in weather and also how he also has gone on this athletic path was really cool.

Sean Sublette: Yeah, it's nice to see that because so many times, as you mentioned, Matt, we kind of get pigeonholed, if you will, into this is what a meteorologist or weatherman or whoever is like. This is what they’re like for me, a little bit older. It was really kind of cool to see Cantore, the Weather Channel rise into popularity. Kind of gave our geekdom a little more street cred, if you will. So that's nice to see. And, of course, look, Jim is buff. I mean, dude is.

Matt Holiner: That's just the way of the world.

Sean Sublette: But it's good to show that this community of people who geek out about weather, do have a broader focus to have other interests. And, I think that's very important in this day of age. And certainly the stuff Joe is doing and how long he's been doing it honestly surprised me. So really looking forward to this conversation.

Matt Holiner: Yeah.

Joe Martucci: Well, let's dive into it here, get you into the episode with Joe Moravsky from American Ninja Warrior on the across the Sky podcast.

American Ninja Warrior Joe Moravsky is the Weatherman

Joe Martucci: All right, and it is time for our interview here with a very special guest. Don't know if we've ever, had this segment of meteorology before. How about American Ninja Warrior in Weather? I don't know if we've had that combination our podcast before. It might be a first, but we are very pleased to welcome on Joe Moravsky to the podcast. He is an American Ninja warrior athlete known as the Weatherman. He has competed since season five of American Ninja Warrior and has twice been the last ninja standing, beating everybody in the country. He is also a husband and father of three and currently manager of Stanford Ninja Academy in Stanford, Connecticut. He also got his meteorology degree from Western Connecticut State University. Joe, I think I'm saying that right. welcome to the pod. We appreciate it.

Joe Morvasky: Thank you. Thank you guys for having me. It's funny, kind of breaking barriers, right? We got the sports world and the weather world, and we put them together with American, Ninja Warrior, the weatherman here. So, it's always, they're very unique conversations I end up having because, people are like, what is the weatherman? How does that have to do with Ninja? So I'm sure we're going to get into that today.

Joe Martucci: Yeah, definitely. Well, I'll tell You what, Joe. So when I do, talks at schools and it's about different careers in weather or just kind of talking about what I do as a meteorologist, one of the slides I have is different segments of meteorology. So I talk about working in the National Weather Service, working in media, and then I say, sometimes you get to become an American Ninja warrior. And I use a photo of you in my PowerPoint presentation. So thank you for helping me talk to kids, all across New Jersey here.

Joe Morvasky: No problem. We're on the same team, man.

Joe Martucci: We're on the same, you know, weather is a small field.

Joe Lacey says he always wanted to be a meteorologist

Joe Martucci: So, let me ask you about the weather part first. How did you get interested in weather? Was there something that just bit you? Ah, like a lot of people. Did you fall into it?

Joe Morvasky: How did it work out? I'm sure just like all of you here, would agree there are so many stories, right? So many stories that got us into weather. I would say the first memory I have of just recognizing, the wow factor of weather was when I was a kid, my mom was telling me, I remember driving. I remember this day so perfectly, or this moment so perfectly. It's such a simple moment, but it was so powerful to me. We're sitting in the car. I must have know, maybe I don't even know. Eight years old, nine years old. And I remember her driving, saying, Joe, look at those clouds. They were cumulus clouds. I didn't know that at the time, but nice big old cumulus clouds. And she was like, you see how that one looks like a shape that looks like this or whatever that was? And I was like, oh, yeah, that's really cool. She's like, yeah, those are my favorite. They're so cool. They look so big and powerful, and they take all these different types of shapes. And I don't know, I was so young and so out of touch because of that, that I didn't ever think of that. I never really looked up at the sky and said, wow, look at that. And that was the first moment that kind of, got me interested. And I remember in fifth grade, I'll never forget this, we went through, what do you want to be when you get older? To all my fifth grade teacher students. And I told her I wanted to be a meteorologist. And I said, one day I'm going to say, hey, Mrs. Lacey, I'm going to tell you the weather.

Matt Holiner: When you wake up in the morning.

Joe Morvasky: Before school, I'll make sure to shout you out. And she's like, I hope so, Joe. And, I was like, but wait, that's not all I want to do. She was like, oh, well, what else do you want to do? And I said, I want to be a professional athlete. She was like, and who doesn't have dreams and aspirations of being a professional athlete, right? Especially somebody like, guess. But I've always wanted to do it. I never thought doing both would be possible. But I guess I kind of.

Joe Martucci: Mean, I can think of a couple of athletes and meteorologists. Owen Daniels, who was a tight end for, Oh, geez, I think Minnesota Vikings. Texans. That’s the only one I can think of. I'm probably missing somebody you might know, Joe.

Joe Morvasky: So there's one person in particular that, from what I understand, never became a meteorologist, but was always fascinated with the weather. I remember I heard this on some interview somewhere once, and I was like, wow, I like this guy even more. You probably won't even believe it. Michael Jordan, really? Michael Jordan. Now we're going to need some fact checkers on that, but I'm almost positive that that's what I heard him say from his mouth, that he loved the weather and he always wanted to be a meteorologist. And I was like, whoa, that's so cool, Michael Jordan himself.

Joe Martucci: Yeah, I know. Mike Trout is a big weather guy too.

Joe Morvasky: I didn't know. This is good.

Joe Martucci: He's been on the Weather Channel a couple of times with Jim Cantore, talking during snowstorms and stuff, of course. Okay, so you got a nice little fraternity there, you and Michael Jordan right there.

Joe Morvasky: Yeah, right. Jim Cantori is the one guy, I met Reed Timmer a couple, many years ago. Now, at this point, he was a big idol of mine. But Jim Cantore, I mean, come on, who doesn't want to meet that know out in the snow waiting for.

Joe Martucci: The thunder or even some thunder. Snow.

Growing up in Connecticut, it's all about the Nor’easters

Joe Martucci: And that leads me into my next question here. Growing up in Connecticut, it's all about the Nor’easters and the snowstorms, baby. So are you a big snow guy and do you have any memories growing up of some big snow events?

Joe Morvasky: Absolutely. I didn't even know about thunder snow until older, my older years, I don't know exactly when, but I remember being outside during a big storm and a big snowstorm and I remember exactly where I was. Just one of those moments, I remember the snow coming down so hard, this sky had this almost like a pinkish hue to it, which was interesting. And all of a sudden I heard a rumble of thunder and I was like, what is that? Like, I didn't know that was a thing at the time. I must have know middle school at that point. And sure enough, I come to find out, I think I saw Brad Field on NBC Connecticut, one of my big role models, of the NBC Connecticut World. And I sure enough, I think he spoke on NBC that evening. He was like, we had some reports of Thunderstorm. I was like, thunder snow, my world has been changed. I didn't know that was a thing. And so those of course are such incredible moments to hear thunder within a snowstorm. It's really cool and pretty unique. I'm sure you guys have heard it, although maybe not because some of you are not from the Northeast, but either way, it's pretty cool.

Joe Martucci: I've heard it and it is very cool.

Matt Holiner: on Halloween day, I was in Chicago and I experienced Thunder Graupel for the first time, it was not snow, almost snow, but it was actually graupel. And that was a unique experience. I feel like I'm one of the few that have had that experience.

Joe Morvasky: That's cool. I actually had somebody at my job yesterday. He was like, it was hailing this morning. I was like, it wasn't to break it to you. He was like, what do you mean?

Matt Holiner: There is a know.

Joe Morvasky: It's our job. We got to explain it. But, yeah, it was not common.

Matt Holiner: But, yeah, Graupel is a thing. You can Google it and learn all about it.

How did you get involved in American ninja Warrior after graduating from college

Matt Holiner: But, Joe, what I want to walk through is, let's go after you've got your meteorology degree, how things played out. So what did you do right after college? What was your meteorology experience? And then how did you get involved in American ninja Warrior?

Joe Morvasky: Yeah, it's very interesting. So the condensed version of the story is, when I graduated college, I had this opportunity. I had watched American Ninja Warrior on TV, and it just so happened that somebody that I knew, knew a guy that was on the show. And this was before it was really big. It was really before it grew into the NBC giant that it is today, or at least it used to be. The ratings on TV are going down across the board. But back five years ago, six years ago, was really millions and millions of people who were watching. But before it got to that point, there was somebody on the show that I ended up meeting with, and, I asked him all about it. How can I get on the show? This is something I've loved to do. When do they film? And, I asked him everything, and he said, we usually film the spring. And I was like, okay, well, I'm graduating a semester next only because, or a semester late because I ended up switching majors. Not a lot of people know this. I switched from meteorology to secondary education. I really wanted to be a coach. I wanted to stay in that sport world, even though I was sacrificing it to be a meteorologist. And so I was like, you know what? I'm going to transition. I'm going to stick to science and math. I'm going to teach that in high school, and I'll be a coach. It'll be awesome. I'll be able to stay, in the athletic world for the rest of my life if I want to. And it was something that really got me excited. And then I had a moment where I was like, you know what? Something's not right. And I switched back. I switched back a semester later. And, ended up graduating a, semester late, and because of that, graduated in December. The filming of the show was in March, and I was lucky enough to know about it and start training for it in the summer before, just in case. And, here I am today. They love the idea of a weatherman coming in and they wanted to tease me. I know they did. Everyone had like a shtick back then and it was like, the frog man is coming out and look, he's got a silly costume. And then Captain NBC was dressed up as at the time, Captain G Four, I think it was on G Four network. And, he had a thing and other people had a thing, and the fireman and the police officer and the teacher. So they wanted a weatherman. They thought that'd be great. They thought it was going to be a novelty act. They thought they were going to just tease me and so be it. But they found out that I was a real athlete and it kind of took off from there. That was the condensed version. That's surprisingly, but that's how it all started.

Sean Sublette: Yeah. So when did you actually begin to train for that, and how long did you train in anticipation? I mean, did you still have to try out and then qualify? How many hoops did you have to ultimately jump through to compete on the program?

Joe Morvasky: I started training the summer before. It was probably August of, 2012. I got on the show in the spring of 2013. And honestly, it wasn't a ton of training to get where I got to because I was already a serious athlete. I had played, baseball and basketball. I tried out for the baseball team in college, and it was on the bubble to make the team. And then I realized, you know what? I have a job. I have this career that I'm really aiming for, and I'm pegging my way through college. So how am I going to do this? And so, unfortunately, I gave in to the walking away from sports. But I was always an athlete, always. Growing up. I played varsity sports in high school and like I said, college baseball for a short time and then rec sports in college. So it was really just fine tuning my athleticism to be a ninja. So I did a lot more upper body work. Like I was doing pull ups every other day in the weight in the gym. I was rock climbing a little bit. I was just trying to fine tune myself to be ready, and I did a pretty good job. It worked out. So, that's kind of how it all started there.

American Ninja warrior is a sport that takes getting used to

Joe Martucci: Let's talk about a little bit about how the sausage is being made during these episodes. I have watched American Ninja warrior before, but I will say I know a lot of kids are interested in American Ninja warrior, at least with the kids that I've spoken to. So when you're there, what's it like? How long are you actually there competing? Because I know it looks like a lot of different cuts on television. So what is a day of competition like?

Joe Morvasky: Oh, it's rough, I'll tell you that. It's rough. It's something that really takes getting used to, and it's definitely a younger person's sport, I'll tell you that. Because the older, you know, like me, you get married, you have kids. It’s a lot harder to change your sleep schedule because we film this overnight. We usually get there depending on where the location is. Let's take the Vegas finals, for example. Vegas finals. They want us there early to make sure there's no hiccups. We go over rules of the course at 07:00 p.m. Right around 07:00 p.m. Local time in Vegas, and we end up getting there. About 530 in the evening. So it's 530 until seven. We're sitting around in a tent doing nothing. From seven to eight, it's rules. And about 830 to 09:00, the competition starts at about that time. We run through the night, and we don't finish filming until about 05:00 a.m. So it's a very long 12 hours of just sitting around trying to deal with the anxiety and the stress of, having to give it your all in that one shot that you have. And it's hard also, because sometimes there are hiccups along the way where the course will malfunction, and then there's even more of a delay. And this has happened two years in a row for me, where I'm supposed to run one night, there's a course malfunction. I have to run now the next night, and the next night is reserved for stage two of the Vegas finals, and the next night after that is sometimes stage three and four, which is the final stage. So it really depends on the year. But if I get bumped from one night to the next, sometimes relief, sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm ready. I want to go know. So it's frustrating, and you kind of have to be okay. Know, changing things on the fly. And as a meteorologist, this is what I love so much, because people don't understand that you'll have your producer, in your ear saying, hey, Joe, we need 30 more seconds. And you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm on the seven day already. What am I going to do? So you just slow it down and you start to talk a little bit like this. And maybe there's a chance for some rain overnight, but we're going to have to keep an eye on the computer models, of course, because I don't know what I'm saying. I'm just filling time. And so you have to be able to adapt to anything that comes your way. And so that parallel between meteorology and sports, it's actually pretty amazing. And not to mention all the physics that I've taken and the understanding of how obstacles should work and how my body should move through the air to be able to beat these obstacles, I mean, it's all a huge advantage, and, people wouldn't normally think that.

Joe Moravsky says there have been a few memorable weather moments during competitions

Matt Holiner: And Joe, how many cities have you traveled to to do the show? And I'm also curious along the way, in all these travels and all these competitions, has weather ever been an issue? Has there been weather that has occurred during the course of the event that maybe had a little bit of an impact?

Joe Morvasky: Absolutely. There’s a few really cool moments in the St. Louis. Oh, no, it was in Colorado. I wasn't there for that one. But we actually had some snow on that course, and so they built a snowman at the top of the warp wall. That one was cool. In St. Louis for one year, we had severe thunderstorms to where we canceled the entire night. Another year in St. Louis, we, got snow, but it was like the back end of the front, so the rain had gone through, and then there was some flakes behind it, and it got bitterly cold and windy. It was terrible. But I think the most memorable was in the Vegas finals, a couple of years ago. We got rain right before we started running, and it was summertime in Vegas. You're not really getting rain. So that was kind of cool and unique. But, aside from that, there was one time Minneapolis, the Minneapolis, city qualifiers and finals. I just landed at the airport right when I landed, I got alerts on my phone for, a severe thunderstorm warning. I was like, everywhere I go, everywhere I go. And people, they look at me because I got some ninjas coming off the plane with me and like, Joe, you're supposed to be in control of. Come on. Yeah, yeah. So it is funny. Yeah. There's definitely been quite a few moments where weather, has impacted the. Absolutely.

Joe Martucci: And do they ask you, has anyone said, ask you what the weather is going to be like? Who's actually making that decision to tell me about it?

Joe Morvasky: You would think, right? They have their own in house meteorologist, apparently. And I've offered my advice. I've been like, hey, we got about 30 minutes, producers. Let’s go. I'm up in three runners. Let's go. And sure enough, that year in Philadelphia, I got rained out. I was the next to run and there was eleven of us left, in Philadelphia, and we got rained out for the rest of the night. It was going to be three days of rain, so they canceled the shoot. The next eleven runners, the final eleven runners got sent to Minneapolis, which is where that, severe thunderstorm warning hit me right when I got off the plane. So that was a year. That was a year.

Joe Martucci: Interesting. All right, well, we're going to take a break. We'll have more with Joe Moravsky on the other side of the across the sky podcast.

Joe Moravsky is the Weatherman on American Ninja Warrior

Joe Martucci: Welcome back, everybody, to the across the sky podcast. Hey, new episodes come out every Monday, wherever you get your podcast and on your favorite local news website. We are back with Joe Morovsky, famously, known as the Weatherman on American Ninja Warrior. We are talking all about weather, American Ninja warrior, athletes and beyond. Joe, let me ask you, know, what is your involvement with meteorology?

Joe Morvasky: Know, it's really kind of sad, you know, I, we just had our first snow here in Connecticut. Was it yesterday, I think? Yeah, it was yesterday. Yeah. So you know better than I do, and I was here. But that's the point. You know what I mean? I'm very much still in love with it. But the conclusion I've come to is I'm 34 years old. I can be in my fifty s or sixty s or even 70s if I want to be a meteorologist, I can't be in my fifty s, sixty s, seventy s, competing at this level on Ninja Warrior. And so I have put everything on halt. I'm focusing on my career with Ninja, managing the gym and hopefully franchises soon. So there's a lot that I'm working on. But, yeah, meteorology is not one of them. So it is always nice and refreshing to do this, you know what I mean? To kind of get the weather weenies together. I know the general public is like, what is that? But that's what we call ourselves.

Joe Martucci: No, we understand. So you're still getting excited when the snow is coming in?

Joe Morvasky: Oh, absolutely. You should have seen me. I was like a kid on Christmas yesterday, I was like, it's snowing out. I made sure everyone knew I was texting everybody the best part, though, and this is always fun, me and a small group of my friends. Every so often, I'll say, snow is coming on Wednesday. For example, I said this last week. I was like, snow is coming on Wednesday. You heard it here first. And I sent it to them. And, sure enough, Wednesday morning, I got a text from them. They're like, you son of a. You were right. I was like, you better believe it. So not always right, as we know, but I nailed that one. And, I think it was a week out, so I was happy about have. I have nobody checking up on me, so it's not a big deal. I can make big claims.

How much longer do you think you'll stay with America Ninja Warrior

Sean Sublette: Well, Joe, back to your role right now. What is your relationship with America Ninja Warrior? I mean, are you still doing competitions? ARe you kind of advising what is your role and influence with them right now?

Joe Morvasky: So we just filmed season 15. I had a really good season. Didn't hit a lot of buzzers, but felt really good. Made, it to the Vegas finals, got to our head to head showdown, which is on stage two in Vegas. It's a brand new format where we actually race somebody, and the winner goes to stage three. And in the history of American Ninja Warrior, I'm still the only person with the most amount of stage three visits. So I've been there the most out of everyone in history, which is really cool. And it helps with the confidence trying to get back there. I'm like, all right, come on. Come on, Joe. You've been there before. Let's do it again. And, it does, you know, I ended up losing my race. I ended up misplacing a bar. The bar had to go into these bear traps that were inverted, and you had to push the bar through the bear trap, and it locked in place on its way out. And I only got one side in because I'm mid race. I'm trying to really focus at a high speed, and I just missed. I'm talking by an inch. And so my season was over. But the good news is they brought me back for season 16. We filmed back to back seasons.

Joe Martucci: we think it had to do.

Joe Morvasky: With the writer strike. So they were getting ahead of it. So from what I'm hearing, the rumor is, and this is just a rumor, it's not confirmed that early 2024, January, February, season 16 will air, which is something we've already filmed. I can't tell you how it did. But let's just say ninja. Ah, warriors should want to keep having me back for years to come. Let's hope. It’s always good, though, when I step out on the course. So, in all seriousness, they've always loved taking the weatherman back on the show, for whatever reason. Maybe it's the fact that I grew up on TV, right? I started as a 23 year old, just with a girlfriend and no kids. And ten years later, I have a new house, three, kids, a wife, a new job, and I've grown up on TV. And it's really relatable to a lot of people watching, especially the people that started watching what, you know, they get to see the guy from Connecticut that turned, into, a ninja superstar. So it's really cool.

Matt Holiner: And going off of that, how much longer do you think you're going to keep competing and keep at it before you make that career transition back to meteorology, maybe. How much longer do you think you're going to stay with Ninja Warrior?

Joe Morvasky: That's the question, man. If you asked me that two years ago, I'd say this is it. Because the COVID season was really hard on me, I got disqualified, because my wife caught COVID while we were at the Vegas finals. I can relive that, man. I can't tell you how awful that felt. Like I was ready to run. I was 19 people away from stepping on the stage. One course in Vegas, which, by the way, is outdoors and we're vaccinated, and blah, blah, blah, blah. I can go on. And. But. And we got tested, and I was negative that night for COVID. But because my wife is a close contact, I got disqualified from the competition, and I did mentally retire that year. I retired that night. I made the decision. I was like, this is how it's going to end. This is how it was meant to end. And, the more I sat on that thought, the more okay I became with never winning, because I hadn't ever won at this point and still haven't. Maybe season 16, but we don't know yet. And so I had let it go. I let the dream go. I was like, it's okay. It's okay to not achieve your dreams. You did so much, and it's okay. But just something came across me in that time of reflection, the months later, and I just realized, you know what? I can't. How often do people walk away at their peak? I can't. I still have more to give. And there's so many people that rely on seeing me out there, rely on me for motivation, inspiration, never giving up. Right? And I've touched too many people's lives, and I've heard too many people's stories about how I have to walk away. And I've learned that it's not just about me at this point anymore. I do it for people that look up to me and want to see me back, for whatever their reason is. And so that's powerful enough to keep me going, among all the other things. So I'll be back. And I continue to take, it one year at a time, but I don't see myself walking away in the next two or three years. I got time left, and I'm ready to commit to it.

Joe Martucci: Joe, kind of following up on that.

Do you hear from aspiring meteorologists on American Ninja warrior

Joe Martucci: do you hear from aspiring meteorologists throughout your years on American Ninja warrior?

Matt Holiner: Do you do school visits?

Joe Martucci: What's your relationship like with younger people who are interested in whether as a career, but are still in school?

Joe Morvasky: Yeah. So I definitely had a lot of people reach out to me. Twitter, Instagram. Twitter is a really great place where people have reached out, especially meteorologists. I don't know what it is about, us meteorologists and Twitter, but, yeah, a lot of people have reached out there. I think, on that last, podcast, that I was on, I think they found me through, Twitter, as, I mean, I've. I've done school visits and know slideshows and wife school at other schools. And, I've even had the really cool opportunity to meet Al Roker a few times on the Today show and be on his morning show there. So that was fun. That was a lot of fun. It's been a few years since that, but I told Al was like, hey, we got to get you on the course. He was like, okay, no way. But, yeah, it comes with a job. I'm always going to have people reaching out, whether they're meteorologists, meteorology wannabes, or actual, ah, meteorologists, or just kids interested in the weather. I've had them all reach out, and it's really cool. It's really cool to be able to reach, so many people.

Joe Martucci: I did a little Facebook sleuthing on your public page here. I saw you went to Long Beach Island, over the summer.

Joe Morvasky: Yes.

Joe Martucci: What'd you?

Joe Morvasky: It. You know, it just so happened Taylor Swift was there at the same.

Joe Martucci: Time.

Joe Morvasky: Guess who got to meet her? Not me. Not me.

Joe Martucci: I was going to say she got to meet you, right?

Matt Holiner: It'd be the other.

Joe Morvasky: Oh, please. I wish, man. What? It's her. And, Kelsey.

Joe Martucci: Yes. Travis Kelsey.

Joe Morvasky: Yeah, Travis Kelsey. They're together now. The whole world knows that. But yeah, Taylor Swift was down there. But beside from that, Long Beach Island is beautiful. I mean, it's close enough to Connecticut where it's not like driving. We went to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina a couple of years ago. That was a drive, let me. But it was beautiful. Yeah, Long Beach Island, we loved it. And we'll probably go back. I know my dad is already interested, so maybe we'll see you out there.

Joe Martucci: let me know. We’ll get you in the studio. We can do a live weather video for you. Yeah, we can go live, do whatever you want.

We appreciate you taking the time to talk with us. Maybe after Season 16 airs

Joe Martucci: Joe, anything else you want to end with here before we wrap it up? This has been a great, half hour with you.

Joe Morvasky: Yeah, I mean, I'm just so thankful for these opportunities and, to keep my foot in the meteorology door. It's always been a passion of mine to just be in the weather community and to be involved in weather in some way. And whether I'm doing it all the time or not doesn't mean I don't love it. So this means a lot to me. It's fun to meet other fellow meteorologists. And, I'll see you on the next podcast.

Joe Martucci: Absolutely, yeah. We'd love to have you back. Maybe after Season 16 airs.

Joe Morvasky: Let's hope it's a good one.

Joe Martucci: Well, we're rooting for you, Joe. We really appreciate you taking your time to chat with us and, we'd love to have you again soon, but thanks again for the time.

Joe Morvasky: Thank you, Joe. Thanks, Matt. Thanks, Sean.

Sean Sublette: Thanks for repping so well, man.

Joe Morvasky: Appreciate it.

Matt says weather plays a big role in American Ninja Warrior competitions

Joe Martucci: And we are back here. So, guys, as I'm listening to this, I hear him talking about those storms in Connecticut, talking about fronts. He's just like one of us. It's just you see him on, know, a couple times a year competing on American Ninja warrior. It's, just really cool to have him on it is really.

Sean Sublette: Go ahead, go ahead.

Matt Holiner: No, I was going to say, I. Also like how he can't escape the weather. He had the rain delay in Philadelphia, then he said, oh. So then they decide to move it to Minneapolis and got the severe thunderstorm warning there. So it's hard for him to escape the weather in these events because they do occur outside. So there is an element, the weather does impact him in his game. Even when he's not actively working as a meteorologist. The weather is having an impact and people are teasing about it and asking him questions about it. So, the weather continues to follow him and knows he's a meteorologist.

Sean Sublette: Yeah. And to that end, almost all of their competitions are recorded at night, which I think is also important. If you're training, you're going to be training a different way if you have to perform outside in the daylight, especially in spring, summer, fall, the sun is up and it's different than if you're out there at nighttime. And to say nothing of they record well into the night. Not like, oh, we're done at 930 or ten. They go well past midnight recording some of this stuff. So that's an additional stress on the body, just being up when it is not accustomed to being up. And the fact that he is still doing this. Very impressive.

Matt Holiner: Yeah, I didn't realize that either that I figured. You do see that it's filmed at night, but I kind of said, oh, just during the evening hours. I wasn't thinking, in my mind for some of those people. Yes, some of them, they start in the evening, but they're going all night. So some of them are doing this. Three in the morning, four in the morning, which just makes it even harder again, especially if you're trying to live a normal life most of the time. But when you do the competition, to be up at those hours. Yeah. It just makes it more difficult. So it makes it more impressive that he's done as well as he has.

Joe Martucci: I like what you said earlier, Matt, about breaking the mold. Right. Not too many athletes that are meteorologists. I was going to ask you guys, did you guys do sports in high school or college?

Matt Holiner: Oh, definitely not college.

Joe Martucci: Everybody's.

Matt Holiner: I did middle school golf team. But then again, my talent level wasn't good enough for the high school golf team, so I switched over to band. Another nerdy thing.

Sean Sublette: Just a bunch of pickup soccer and intramural softball. That's about as exciting as it got for me.

Joe Martucci: But I think, aren't you a.

Sean Sublette: Disc golf guy, Sean, my son, is really the big disc golf guy, and he's got me into doing it and he's had to show me how to hold the discs the right way. The right way to kind of move your body so you have control of the discs. But that's fun. But I wouldn't call that high stress exercise.

Joe Martucci: It's a lot of walking.

Sean Sublette: It is a lot of walking.

Joe Martucci: Got to walk around walking. That ain't nothing.

Next week, we're going to do Bob Dylan in the weather

Joe Martucci: All right, so we have plenty of more episodes coming up. Of course. Coming up next week, we're going to do Bob Dylan in the weather. Now, Bob Dylan was not a meteorologist, but he did write a lot of songs about the weather. And we actually have, Dr. Alan Roebach, who was one of my professors at Rutgers, come on the podcast. Because, guys, he actually did his thesis about Bob Dylan and the weather, which, when we were in school, we used to just kind of be like, that's pretty incredible. Maybe a little different. But it's going to come to be a real surprise when he talks about this, because he has a lot to say about this. He might be Bob Dylan's biggest fan.

Sean Sublette: Well, I think. Wasn't Bob Dylan the guy who wrote, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing? Wasn't that Dylan?

Joe Martucci: I'm not sure.

Sean Sublette: I think it was Dylan. I'd have to go Google it. But, I mean, Dylan has written a lot of stuff with these weather undertones, so, I'm not surprised. But I'm looking forward to hearing what, Alan has to say and a.

Matt Holiner: Quick shout out, like, the reason we actually came up with this idea. Gosh, I think it's now coming up on almost a year when we did our top ten weather songs.

Sean Sublette: Has it been a year now?

Matt Holiner: I think it's almost been. You're going to have to go back in our podcast history. Scroll back. But we did an episode, the top ten weather songs, and we talked about Bob Dylan on there. And then Joe said, oh, my professor did his whole thesis on Bob Dylan and the weather. And it's like, you know what? He might be a good one to bring on. And so we're finally getting around to it.

Joe Martucci: That was our November 28, 2022 episode.

Group: Wow, almost a year. Yeah.

Joe Martucci: top ten weather songs we, did. That was with Terry Lipshetz, who's our, producer here, our podcast producer for not just us, but all of our Lee Enterprises Weather, podcasts that we do. We're, also going to do ten things to know about weather that's coming up the 18 December. And then at the end, we will do our year in review. So we do have, course, more things coming up. And, we'll make it even better as we go into the new year, which is rapidly approaching. Believe, it or not. I can't believe.

Sean Sublette: And I did just Google it. Yes. You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. That's Dylan.

Joe Martucci: That is true. But if you need to forecast which way the wind blows, well, I mean.

Sean Sublette: A compass to know which way the wind blows. That's all you need. You don't need me. Just need a compass.

Joe Martucci: Well, I'm, trying to give us some credit here. I'm trying to give us some credit. I'm saying, if you need a wind forecast, that's where you come with us. We got it there. If, you have a question, you can leave one for us at 609-272-7099 609-272-7099 you can also email [email protected] so for Matt Holiner in Chicagoland, Sean Sublette in Richmond, and Kirsten, who couldn't be with us, but she is saying hello from Tulsa, Oklahoma, I'm meteorologist Joe Martucci, and we'll see you next Monday on the across the Sky Podcast.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Yes, the planet is getting warmer. But what's happening in the United States specifically and what will the impacts be? The newly released Fifth National Climate Assessment is the most comprehensive report yet on how climate change is impacting the country.

Dr. Jeremy Hoffman, the lead author of the Southeast chapter, joins the podcast this week to give an overview of the assessment. What is different about this report from previous ones? How do current and future impacts vary across different regions, industries, and social classes? Dr. Hoffman also discusses why there is reason for optimism as we move forward with tackling climate change.

We want to hear from you!

Have a question for the meteorologists? Call 609-272-7099 and leave a message. You might hear your question and get an answer on a future episode! You can also email questions or comments to [email protected].

About the Across the Sky podcast

The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:

Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Southeast Braces for Rising Seas

Sean Sublet welcomes climate scientist Jeremy Hoffman to Lee Enterprises Weather podcast

Sean Sublette: Hello once again, everybody. I'm, meteorologist Sean Sublette. And welcome to Across the Sky, our national Lee Enterprises Weather podcast. Lee Enterprises has print and digital news operations in more than 70 locations across the country, including in my home base in Richmond, Virginia. I'm joined by meteorologist colleagues Matt Holiner in Chicago, Joe Martucci at the New Jersey Shore, Kirsten Lang this week is on assignment. Our guest this week is climate scientist Jeremy Hoffman. Jeremy got his PhD in geology with a focus in Paleo climatology at Oregon State University. And importantly, he is the lead author of the new Southeast chapter of the Fifth National Climate Assessment, which just came out this week. After several years here in Richmond at the Science Museum of Virginia, he is now working with Groundwork USA, a network of local organizations devoted to transforming the natural and built environment of low resource communities across the country. So we have got a lot to get to, with Jeremy in this episode. Guys, one of the things that I think was really good for us to point out was that we're hit with so many reports, right? This report comes out. This report comes out. We see this headline, that headline. This one is different. This one really focuses on specific sectors and impacts to all the regions of the United States. And Matt, you and I were talking, so many people were involved to get some good, what we call consensus opinions. Right?

Matt Holiner: Yeah. This reminds me very much, if you haven't listened to our episode with Neil deGrasse Tyson, a great listen, but we talk about this with him, or he brought it up, how you want scientific consensus, you don't want the one person who has this one, probably that's not how science works. You want something that's been worked on and been looked at by a lot of people. And a lot of people worked on this report, and some of the most respected scientists in the country worked on this report. So this wasn't a report done by one person. And it's not just a few page report. It's very detailed, lots of people working on it to reach a consensus on what's happening, a scientific consensus. This isn't just an opinion, this is based on fact, and a lot of hours and a lot of people will put effort into it.

Joe Martucci: Yeah, and you could check that out at NCA 2023. Globalchange. Gov. That's NcaTwenty. Globalchange. Gov. Yes. Usually when a number of people are saying the same thing, that is usually meaning that there is power behind this. What is in the report is factually correct, at least to the best of their abilities here. And this all goes into what I say a lot of times when it comes to climate change, let's just get the elephant out of the room. It is a big topic, that does get heated here. But the way to think about this is there are facts and forecasts about our climate changing world, and then there's what to do or not to do about it. And that's where your beliefs come in. There is a difference between what our beliefs are and then what is actually happening. So, as we learn here in the podcast, this is talking about the facts and the forecast part of it. What is actually the thoughts of the researchers in terms of what to do or not to do about it is not in this. That's for now, Congress and our elected, officials to decide on. And he talks about that in the podcast, so I'm looking forward to it.

Sean Sublette: Yeah, he gets into a lot of that. They kind of outline some policy ideas, but didn't say we need to X, Y or Z. So without further ado, let's get right to Jeremy Hoffman, who's the lead chapter offer of the Southeast chapter of the National Climate Assessment.

The fifth National Climate Assessment has been several years in the making

Sean Sublette: Jeremy, thanks for joining us. This has been a labor of love, I'm sure. the fifth national climate assessment is literally years in the making. Talk a little bit about the genesis of the NCA national climate assessment. This isn't just another report that's out there, right? I mean, this is a congressional act, right? Hundreds of scientists are working on this.

Jeremy Hoffman: Yeah. So, first of all, thanks so much, Sean, and your team, for inviting me to be a part of the discussion today. You’re absolutely right. I mean, this has been a, ah, report that's several years in the making. First and foremost, the national climate Assessment itself is a congressionally mandated, production of the US government, of the US GCRP, or the US, Global Change Research program and the NCA Five, really began, back in the end of 2019 when the Federal Steering Committee that would be kind of running the show and pushing the report forward was established. And then by the middle part of 2020 or so, that's when the, lead authors were selected based on a public nomination process. so I was informed of my selection as the, chapter lead for the Southeast chapter, at that time, as well as, getting to know my coordinating lead author, Steve McDulty, who's the director of the Southeast, Region Forest Service. Steve, amazing career, has worked on basically every climate assessment, since they began, so he had been working on climate assessments since before I was born. So it was really great to have somebody with such experience helping me, get to know the climate assessment process. And so, by 2021, by the end of 2020, we had our chapter author team selected and established, and so then basically for the last two years, since that time, we've been doing, different drafts of the content of the fifth national climate Assessment. This has included an outline phase or the zero order draft. In early 2021, we got some, public feedback at that time, which was really great. We had, public engagement workshops that had visitors from all over the different, regions. We had, stakeholder, engagements as part of that process. And so we emerged with a really, kind, of bottom up outline of what the Southeast, the stakeholders and public and residents of the Southeast were really interested in and concerned about. SO Then there was a multiple iterative process, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th drafts, which, I believe the fourth order draft, went through, or the third order draft went through the National Academy's peer review process, as well as another public review, the Southeast chapter. We had, almost 100 public comments about our chapter draft, reflecting on the content and kind of pieces that might have been missing, as well as National Academy's review, which was three pages of a nearly line by Line review. And so, yes, this report is, the integrated effort of over 700 people, academics, professionals, climate, and resilience communicators. I mean, it is. The sheer number of people involved in the production of this from the NCA team side of things is immense. And then you think about the thousands and thousands of residents of this country that provided public review to the draft. This is not some flash in the pan kind of report. The state of climate impact and risk, science for the United States, that will be the kind of science of record that people can come back to again and again as they confront the risks of climate change in their communities, for at least the next five years, until the NCA six comes out. So, yes, it was a massive undertaking. It was such an incredible experience professionally, and I'm just so thrilled about the way that it's been rolled out to such public fanfare, around the country.

Sean Sublette: Wonderful. Before I let the other guys jump in, I want to start at the very top. I mean, from what I've been able to tell, because I haven't gone through all of it yet. It's massive. It’s kind of a reinforcement of things that we largely knew if we're paying attention. Right. but are there a couple of things that have come out in this version, NCA Five, that really stand out as bigger changes or more emphatic compared to NCA Four, whether it's in the Southeast or any part of the United States? Is there anything that really jumped out at you as a scientist?

Jeremy Hoffman: Well, first of all, I think virtually across all of the regional chapters and even the sector specific chapters, almost without exception, virtually every way that we understand that climate change is happening has just gotten stronger, since NCA Four. Whether that be patterns, and trends in annual temperatures or our warm nights, indicators of heavy precipitation, indicators of rising sea levels. All of those things that we use as our indicators of climate change is happening now in the United States, virtually without exception, have all gotten more robust. So, as far as the framing around kind of content that's already been covered for the multiple other NCAs, this report very much focuses on, the fact that quite literally, how much more all of these things continue to intensify are entirely related to the choices that we make today. The human element about the uncertainty of what happens in the future, is really, particularly centered across all of the different chapters. So we're talking about, very much that what happens now has a direct correlation to what happens in the future. And depending on the level of global warming that we, experience and allow to happen, dictates the future intensity of the, climate indicators that we have already, seen change. Now, some of the particular things that I think, ah, are particularly noteworthy in the Southeast. I think the most alarming result is related to sea, level change. Sea level is going up, globally, because land based ice in the Polar Regions is melting and adding that water that was frozen into big, giant ice sheets that water is melting and going into the ocean. That raises, global sea levels. Also, most of the energy being trapped by the intensified greenhouse gas effect is being absorbed by the oceans. So the oceans are warming up. This is a really fascinating bit about water, is that as it warms up, it expands. You, can do this experiment at home, boiling water on your stove at home. You see that as it warms up, it's actually starting to take up a greater volume, over time. So we have those two things going on globally. But then when you look at the localized things, that can then further amplify global sea level rise that's happening throughout the Southeast, and really creating, a fairly, urgent need to confront these rising sea levels because we actually have a faster relative sea level rise throughout the Southeast. That drives our future projections to be much higher than the global average expectation. So things like excessive groundwater, know, in coastal, you know, Norfolk, Virginia has the highest rate of sealable rise on the entire east coast of North America, due to localized groundwater extraction, as well as things like the relaxation of the Earth's crust following the end of the last Ice Age. So this connects to things happening tens of thousands of years ago. But also there are localized oceanographic, changes that are ongoing that further amplify sea, level trends that we have in the Southeast. Now, what does this mean long term? By 2050, which pretty much a lot of the future climate projections that are seen in the report focus on more near term changes. So 2050 or so, sea level rise of 2ft is expected at a kind of intermediate to high range scenario, which seems to match the trends that we have detected already. So when we think about the amount of people that are moving under the coastline, the amount of things that we're building along the coast, the threats of a changing sea level, really become apparent through intensified amount of flooding related to hurricanes, to storm surges, even just sunny day or nuisance flooding going up, taking up more time, disrupting people's day to day lives on the coast. And we know that these flooding conditions disproportionately affect those without the resources in order to prepare for them. And that's what I would say is another aspect of this report that is centered throughout, the report in sectors and regional, chapters is that there is a disproportionate impact of climate change on poorer communities and communities of color that experience the challenges of climate change, first and worst, whether that's through their health impacts or to their livelihoods. This is a real theme across the report that you will see, ah, very much, highlighted across both sectors and regions. So I'd say, there are a few other things we can talk about for sure, but when it comes to the Southeast sea level rise and throughout the whole country and throughout the report, this focus on disproportionate impact, is really something that is a big change from NCA four with.

Joe Martucci: Everything you said, right? Who is actually taking this information, making actions upon it? I know you said it's congressionally mandated. I don't know if you said this during the broadcast or just before, while we were off air. But who's taking this information? And what are the actionable steps that have been done based on previous climate assessments? Like, is this something that is actually being put to use in the United States?

Jeremy Hoffman: So I find that, if you look up the citations for, the NCA, four chapters, they appear in all manner of different capacities, whether it's just public awareness. So, this kind of coverage, news coverage, making its way into the public realm, though, refining and defining new questions related to climate change impacts. So it further drives the research that is, working to illuminate more detailed, information, around climate change. But yes, we do see this making its way into decision making. And the biggest point about the national climate assessment is for it to be, policy relevant, but not policy prescriptive. So what's really great about these national climate assessments is that it is meant to just provide the information that can then shape those decision makers, plans for the future. I've seen it, make its way into, coastal resilience plans. I've seen the information and citations to previous reports, make its way into nonprofit community group kinds of presentations, whether it's, advocating for things like improved transit, or more shade in their neighborhoods. These sorts of documents, again, really find their way into a variety of different conversations, that I think just work to, establish a normalized set of data that we can use in those sorts of, discussions. And I think, it's been really amazing, the variety of different ways, that these reports have been, utilized. And I think that NCA Five, because of its real focus on finding ways to communicate with groups that maybe weren't aware that the national climate assessment exists. I am really excited to see it used, for other, endeavors, maybe more aligned with the humanities or social sciences, and understanding more about things like mental health and well-being where a hazard showed up, in the past. So, there's a variety of different things, from concrete climate related policy to, just improving the way that individuals and communities can talk about climate change in their own backyards.

Climate change is causing drought and flooding in the United States

Matt Holiner: And, Jeremy, I think one of the things that's, confusing for folks is when we're talking about climate change, we're talking about how drought is becoming more intense and occurring more often, and flooding is becoming more intense and occurring more often. And so then people are like, well, which one is going to win? Is drought going to win? Or is flooding going to win? And I think it's going to somewhat depend on where you are in the world about what is more likely. But when you're just looking at the United States, is there anything we could say by region about who is likely to suffer more from drought and who is likely to suffer more from flooding?

Jeremy Hoffman: So the kind of traditional wisdom in the climate size community is that you get this pattern of the dry gets drier and the wet gets wetter. So, by. And the country itself tends to be divided about halfway between what's dry to the west and what's wet to the east. And we've seen that playing out, in the, precipitation related indicators of climate change anyway, the Southeast and the Northeast experiencing the more, robust changes to the intensity and duration and frequency of extreme precipitation. Changes to the annual amount of precipitation tends to be in those places that were already kind of wetter climates to begin with. And so when we look into the future, the more, clear patterns related to, extreme precipitation tend to fall along those same lines, where the Southeast and the Northeast continue to see this kind of increased, the duration and frequency of extreme precipitation events, overall. Now, on the flip side of that, we do see that in the Southwest, the projections of Dryness, become really, pretty substantial. The paleo, climate evidence suggests that we're already in an unprecedented amount of dryness and drought in that region and into the future. As the atmosphere becomes more thirsty, the soil is going to become more thirsty, driving these sorts of, additionally intense, trends, to, more drier and drought prone conditions. Now, when you start to zoom in on any one particular place, now we know how complicated rainfall is, we know how complicated drought is. But by and large, we can kind of think of this as being the dry parts of the country are going to continue to feel that dryness, and for every increased additional 10th of a degree from global warming, that gets more intense. And those places that see, extreme precipitation in the present and experience more annual precipitation in the present, that will continue to get, more acute, as, global warming continues as well.

Sean Sublette: Jeremy, this is all so deep. We want to do get into a few more specifics. We will do that after we take a quick break.

Every increment of global warming directly affects local impacts

Sean Sublette: You're listening to the across the sky podcast, and we're back with climate scientist Jeremy Hoffman on the across the Sky podcast. He's the lead chapter author of the Southeast chapter of, the Fifth National Climate Assessment. So many times, Jeremy, we hear about tipping points and I worry that people are going to wake know they expect something a year from now and the country looks like that movie the day after tomorrow. It's really not that way. Can you talk through how this kind of works? In, other words, how does every 10th of a degree matter kind of walk through that a little bit?

Jeremy Hoffman: Regarding impacts, first and foremost is like, while there's increasing amount of knowledge and a lot of open questions about these tipping points, it's much more, about what the long term, trajectory of our emissions pathways are and how that directly relates to the intensity of global warming. Because the intensity, the total amount of global warming that we experience then translates into how much more frequent does that, totally, unpredictable heat wave become, how much more rain is falling in that really intense rainfall event. And that's because the physical constraints of the atmosphere in many ways, and then how that cascades down into the really important impacts on people like, the design incentives that we use for stormwater or the, exposure of an outdoor worker to the extreme heat wave. So let me try and break that down a little bit. And the best example of this is the clausiest cleperon relation, the physical constraint of the atmosphere that, for every nominal increase in the temperature, there is about a seven. For every degree Celsius of warming in the atmosphere, that generally relates to about a 7% increase in the humidity content. So if you break that down into even smaller chunks, you can see how over every single increment of warming then is related to a corresponding and in Some cases accelerating amount of, additional water vapor that's in the air that then can be squeezed out like a bigger sponge over the same area that it affected before. And so what that means is for every degree of, warming, we have a corresponding increase of vapor. That means potentially a corresponding increase in rainfall, which we then have to deal with in our infrastructure, which was in many ways designed decades ago for a climate that no longer exists and will continually get further and further away as global warming continues. So we think about more rainfall affecting the storm sewers that were built in some places centuries ago. They, can't keep up with that rainfall. So that means a direct relationship between increments of warming to unprepared infrastructure and impact on humans in their day to day lives. So when we talk about this kind of like increments of global warming and how every increment matters, that's what we're talking about. We're talking about how the incremental warming relates to then the incremental, impact damage, suffering, and other outcomes that relate to human, experience of living in this country and definitely around the world. So, while again, there is an increase of knowledge and interest in these tipping points, what we have to recognize is those incremental increases in their direct relationship to the cost of our food, the amount of, infrastructure that we have to update, and the impact on our health systems when a more intense and frequent heat wave, happens. So, yeah, I appreciate that question, because I think it really is. People have to understand that link between a 10th of a degree and the hundreds of dollars that that might mean for their bottom line.

Matt Holiner: And, Jeremy, as we work through this part, I kind of want to come in and focus on agriculture, because, boy, some of the people that are most vocal, about the impacts that they're seeing from climate change already are the farmers, whether they're dealing with drought or flooding, either one, they don't want to see. And also the changing of the frost and freeze times. And when should they plant their crops and when should they harvest their crops? Are there any developments in this, assessment as far as agriculture goes and the outlook across the country?

Jeremy Hoffman: Well, absolutely. There is both an agriculture specific chapter, which I encourage people to go and read.

Joe Martucci: Ah.

Jeremy Hoffman: NCA 2023, Globalchange.gov. and there is also, agriculture finds its way into just about every regional chapter. For example, in the Southeast, we talk a lot about the unpredictability of rainfall. That tends to be the case around the country, where we have these rapidly changing conditions from very dry to very wet, or from very wet to very dry. And so what they do is to establish not only what the historical change has been, but what does that mean by the end of this century, 2070 to 2100, which I'll remind you, children born today will be alive in this time period that we tend to think about as very removed from direct human experience. My niece will be living in the Midwest as this occurs in the future. Anyway, these precipitation extreme changes become more acute the more global warming occurs. So, again, it's like, as we allow these larger increments and additional increments of global change to, occur, this directly relates to then, the unpredictability of these, precipitation events. Now, one of my favorite kinds of stories, from the Midwest and farmers, is that the majority of America's pumpkins come from the Midwest. I grew up in Illinois, in. So, you know, the pumpkin harvest in Southern Illinois, south central Illinois, is something that I got to see with my own eyes, and how, the direct relationship between precipitation extremes and the harvest of pumpkins threatens then the experience of having pumpkin pie, for Thanksgiving. So we think about, the relationship between, the importance of, having, reliable, and place based understanding of how these things will relate to, agricultural communities. Really underscores, the importance of the NCAA Five. Now for another example is, and you mentioned these changing freeze dates. You can think about the first time that a freeze occurs, which is kind of what we're waiting for, at this time of year, when will it dip below 32 or 28, for the first time, and then the last frost of the season occurring sometime between March and May, depending on where you live. And this really has a huge effect, especially in the Southeast, on fruits. So, everybody remembers the Georgia peach, and so peaches need a particular amount of frost, and cold days, in order to fruit successfully and flower successfully the following spring. And if the, freeze dates, this last freeze date tends to be moving earlier into the spring on average, that has a direct relationship then to the robustness of those flowers that then turn into the peaches should a weather event like a late season frost occur. So the, long term change of this last freeze date superimposed on still the weather events like late season frosts still occurring, put these really delicate and temperature, sensitive crops, at increasing risk. And that relates to, the agricultural community's economies. Place based and specific kinds of crop based economies are really feeling this uncertainty in both rainfall and, temperature trends overall. And when I think about, how that relates to a variety of our crops that, produce foods that I love to eat, including pumpkin pie, including peaches, it really becomes clear that climate change impacts on the US are really climate, change impacts at the grocery store.

Joe Martucci: Yeah, you're making me think of, with the freeze dates changing and the frost dates changing. I've done some stories, here in New Jersey about how farmers are a little, definitely more uneasy going into the early spring, because while on average we're getting warmer, especially with those nights, it still only takes just one late freeze to really knock things out. They might be growing earlier, but then they get knocked out because of a freeze that happens in early May, let's just say. Also, I just want to throw this out. Know, I've done a podcast before, with Gary Pavlis. He's a wine expert here in New Jersey and talking about how the winery industry has actually flourished in New Jersey. Because you're able to grow those grapes further north in the state where it was one time, just in Cape May in New Jersey. Now it's gone further to the north. So it's just interesting how you, bringing in all the agricultural stuff. We’ll get this podcast home here as a 365 view, 365 degree view of this.

The National Climate Assessment is completely free and open to the public

Joe Martucci: What are you most proud of the work that you and your team has done? And what do you hope that the American public can get out of this as we go forward into the next couple of years ahead?

Jeremy Hoffman: Well, I think some of the most important information in the NCA Five is not related to the scientific observations of a changing climate. It's actually the focus on what an opportunity we have to completely and totally transform our energy system, which has immediate health related benefits for everyone in the country, but particularly those communities that are disproportionately exposed to things like air pollution. there's also the huge offset of future costs to things like our energy grid or our transportation infrastructure if we invest in it now, which means jobs, it means vitality for our local communities, it means new industries like you just mentioned, the wine industry moving further north. I mean, the transformation that our economy could harness through preparation and mitigation of future climate change, is just huge. And so how that relates to a more just and equitable, future for our country is something that finds its way throughout, the chapters, and the report writ large. And I think the most hopeful bit, to me is that everything that we’ve just talked about, as far as what the future means, is in our hands. Everything that's in this report about the future, everything is related to how we decide to move forward. Do we drastically and dramatically reduce the amount of heat trapping gases going into the atmosphere, driving global climate change, or do we delay, and wait and see, or not transform as quickly as we could, not realize all those benefits, not realize all that economic growth, all that, transformation of how, our country works, it's entirely in our hands. And I think I actually walk away from this report being proud of how hopeful it can be interpreted to be, and just what an opportunity we have, in order to adapt, to mitigate and build resilience, equitably for the changes in the future. now, I would say that also one of the proud moments, is just the breadth of content that we've been able to produce, from the equity focused, kind of outcomes to indigenous knowledge being, incorporated throughout, our chapter, and a focus towards the near term impacts of climate change. I'm really just proud of it all and hopeful, for what's possible in the future.

Sean Sublette: Jeremy, this is so amazing. I appreciate your time, I appreciate your work. Let, people know where they can find the national climate assessment and that it's not some big document on a shelf somewhere. And where can people find out more about what you were doing right now, especially with Groundwork USA.

Jeremy Hoffman: Yeah. So thanks, Sean. First and foremost, the national climate assessment is completely free, totally open, and ready for you to go read it. It's at NCA 200:23 Globalchange. Gov. And included on that, is a really interesting, interactive, data Atlas that you can go in and explore in a web based map platform what the future holds for your community at the county level. So go and look at the future precipitation, go and look at the future hot days. And involve yourself in this report, because if it is your report, it is our, scientific knowledge. Explore it. Now. There’s also a series of webinars that will be coming up over the next few months and throughout 2024. So you can go to just globalchange.gov and look at the events page for NCA five related webinars. And lastly, my organization, the organization that I work with, Groundwork USA, Groundworkusa.org. We're an affiliated network of 21 place based environmental justice nonprofits that work to transform underutilized contaminated land in cities across the United States into green community assets that prepare our communities for the changes in climate that they're already experiencing while looking at the past and the history of those communities, to empower them to advance more equitable investments in climate resilience. So check us out. Get involved in your local community organization. And thanks again for the invitation. It's been a pleasure, Jeremy.

Sean Sublette: It's been great having you again.

Jeremy Hoffman is lead author of the Fifth National Climate Assessment

Sean Sublette: Jeremy Hoffman, our guest on the across the Sky podcast. Lead chapter or chapter Lead, Excuse me, of the Southeast chapter, of the Fifth National Climate Assessment. Stay with us. We'll be back with more on the across the Sky podcast. Guys, that is a lot to digest for sure, but I've known Jeremy for a while and he is as thorough as anybody as I have ever met on this topic. One of the things that I really like, the way he kind of lays this out, is that, the decisions we make now will impact those for generations to come, including those of us with kids and hopefully one day grandkids. So there's a lot of opportunity here there's a lot of hemming and hawing about this or that, but there is opportunity. You know, I've talked to Catherine Hayhoe, who is also a climate scientist, and it's important to, as bad as some of this information can be to take in, we already have room for some optimism. Coal is already on the decline, especially domestically. So there's a lot of room for optimism going forward and a lot of opportunity to make things better in the years to come.

Matt Holiner: Yeah, I did like how he used the word that he's hopeful for this because it's easy, and I've mentioned this multiple times when we've discussed climate change, it's easy to just focus on the negative and how bad things are and how we're just a mess and we're not getting anything accomplished. But this, assessment, this report is an accomplishment. We're coming out every five years. In the last five years, we've seen already what's happening because of climate change, the increasing number of billion dollar weather disasters. So we're already getting a clearer picture of what impact climate change is having. We're seeing it already, so it becomes easier to get a clearer picture of how things are going to progress in the future. We're getting a better understanding, starting to notices some differences, even region by region, in the US. So we're getting a better and better understanding of the science and what the impacts will be and the climate models are improving. And so we have a clear picture of what's going to happen and the impacts that are going to happen. And so because of that, we're getting, I think, more motivation. When you have more details and you have more information on this subject, more people can act on it. And that's still the missing part. We're making progress. Our amount of carbon dioxide emissions is dropping in the US. It just needs to drop faster if we want to avoid the worst impacts of climate change. And we're starting to get a clearer picture of what those worst impacts are. And I think this assessment, with so many people working on it, is a good resource for people who are still unsure exactly how is this going to play out. Just go to this report, it'll answer your questions and give you some ideas of what we really need to do to take action. That's the thing. Like take this report seriously and let's start making more progress. We're making progress, but let's make more progress. And this is a good starting point.

Joe Martucci: And you know what, too, when it comes to a lot of the projections with climate change the next couple of decades are already baked in, everything between now and about 2050 or so. It's pretty much going to happen, here. So as he said during the podcast, our grandkids, our kids, I hope I'm alive in 2100. We're going to see. I would be 109 by then. I got a shot. But it's really that 2050 to 2100 time frame where these projections, are in a position where they can be altered depending on what kind of action or inaction we take, as a society.

Sean Sublette: Yeah, so a lot of deep stuff to get into this week. But having said that, we should dial it back a little bit. Right, Joe? Let's do some stuff that's fun in the next couple of podcasts. Let's get on that. Talk to me, buddy. You got a palace Jersey that we need to talk to.

Joe Martucci: Totally. Well, we're going to talk to somebody who's not far away from me in New Jersey. He is in Connecticut. We're talking with Joe Moravsky. Now, if that name sounds familiar to you, that's because he's on American Ninja Warrior. He's been on American Ninja Warrior for a long time on the hit NBC show. But he is also a meteorologist. That is why they call him the Weatherman. It's not just because they said, oh, that's a cool nickname. It's because he actually is a meteorologist. So we're having him on talk about, his love for weather and his time on the show here. That’s going to be coming up on the 27 November here. And then on December the fourth, we're going to have one of my old Rutgers professors. So we have a lot of, we'll say mid Atlantic flair. The next couple of weeks. We have Dr. Alan Robock. He is professor, at Rutgers University, has produced a lot about climate, by the way, I should add. But he's going to talk to us about Bob Dylan in the weather because believe it or not, you can do a PhD thesis on Bob Dylan in the weather. And he did just that. So we're going to have, him to talk about that. Then as we get closer, to the end of the New Year, we have an episode, for you on December 18, ten things to know about winter. If you recall, our ten things to know about fall got a little contentious. We'll see what happens for the winter one. And then we're going to have our annual year in review that will come out sometime between Christmas and New Year's here. That's what we have going on, on the across the Sky podcast. If you want to chime in, you certainly can. We've got a couple of emails. We even got one phone call. But you can email us at [email protected] that's [email protected] and then in terms of giving us a call, if you really want to talk with us here, you can call us at 609-272-7099 yes, we.

Sean Sublette: Used to call those voicemails back in the day, didn't we?

Joe Martucci: yes, we did. Yes, voicemails. And also, when the hashtag was the pound sign.

Sean Sublette: Oh, yes. Hashtag was the pound sign. The good old days. All right. With that, we will wrap it up for this week. Thank you so much, for joining us on the across the Sky Podcast. Have a great Thanksgiving. If you're listening to this before. Yeah, absolutely. So for Matt Holiner in Chicago, Joe Martucci at the Jersey Shore, Kirsten Lang on assignment this week. I'm, meteorologist Sean Sublette in Richmond. Thanks again for joining us, and we will talk with you next time.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Making science easy to understand and relatable has always been a challenge, but in the world of social media and misinformation, it's become even more difficult. Few people know this better than popular astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson.

In a break from our usual focus on weather, Tyson joins the podcast this week to discuss the state of science communication in the 21st century. Why does misinformation spread so easily and what can be done to combat it? How can we improve science education? Tyson also shares the words he thinks are most misunderstood, what they really mean, and some alternatives to use instead.

Tyson is the Director of the Hayden Planetarium at the American Museum of Natural History in New York and host of the StarTalk podcast. He's hosted numerous science programs including "Nova ScienceNow" and "Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey," and has made appearances as himself in programs such as "Family Guy" and "The Simpsons."

We want to hear from you!

Have a question for the meteorologists? Call 609-272-7099 and leave a message. You might hear your question and get an answer on a future episode! You can also email questions or comments to [email protected].

About the Across the Sky podcast

The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:

Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Sean Sublette: Hello, everyone. I'm, meteorologist Sean Sublette. And welcome to Across the Sky, our national Lee Enterprises Weather podcast. Lee Enterprises has print and digital operations at more than 70 locations across the country, including my home base here in Richmond, Virginia. I'm joined by my colleagues from Scross the Sky, Matt Holiner in Chicago, Joe Martucci at the New Jersey Shore. Kirsten Lang is on assignment this week. Our special guest this week is Neil DeGrasse Tyson. Formally, he is the director of the Hayden Planetarium at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. He has numerous books, television specials, and he hosts a podcast, Star Talk, where science and pop culture collide. And he's one of the most popular science communicators in the country today. His, most recent book is called To Infinity and Beyond: A Journey of Cosmic Discovery. I had a chance to talk with him just before he went out on a speaking tour of the East Coast. And fellas, I got to tell you that I got to sit down with him for about half an hour, and it was absolutely tremendous. You see some of the work that these folks do in popular culture and media, and you think, if you get a chance to talk to them, are they going to be that genuine? And, dude, absolutely was. He was just a joy to talk with. Joe, what did you kind of see?

Joe Martucci: Well, I kind of took away the excitement that you had while you were interviewing him, Sean, that was tremendous. I know this was, a really special moment for you, recording, this on your birthday, no less. Happy Birthday, Sean, was.

Sean Sublette: Thank you.

Joe Martucci: But as somebody who has been to the Hayden Planetarium a number of times in New York City, and just the connection he has with there, of course, it's, very special to have him on and haven't really talked about some Earth and space, of course, but more the broader picture of society today and how he's contributing to the progression of society as the human race.

Matt Holiner: Yeah, he really is just great to listen to. Just an excellent communicator. And it just so happens that he wants to communicate science. So that's really what's different about this podcast. Just a heads up. We're not going to just talk about weather on this episode. We really dive into all aspects of science communication and how it's become more challenging now because there's so many voices now, and how do people sort through all the information that's out there and really find the good information? So I really like how he dives into that. It's just an excellent conversation.

Sean Sublette: Yeah, we really started off by talking about the importance of scientific literacy, and as you're going to be a consumer of information, what to be mindful of and what to be on the lookout for. So, without further ado, let's get right to our interview with Neil deGrasse Tyson.

The importance of scientific literacy and scientific communication in an era of disinformation

Sean Sublette: You do so much of this outreach, and it's extraordinary. So I want to talk about the importance of that outreach. specifically the importance of scientific literacy and scientific communication. In an era of disinformation, you work tirelessly to get the solid scientific information out there. There's so much bad information, whether it's disinformation or, know, the change in slash X and Facebook, they're always changing algorithms. So, my first question to you, thinking about cosmic perspectives, as we do, how concerned are you about scientific literacy, both domestically and internationally, and what can any or all of us do to strengthen it?

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Yeah, I mean, in a free country, science illiteracy is. Anyone has the right to be illiterate, scientifically illiterate. No one's going to chase after you and pin you down to a table and force feed you science. Of course, in every state, you're required to go to school through some age, but, it's not clear how much science is required in the minimum educational portfolio of each state. But most people do graduate high school. Okay, so we can ask the question, what's going on in the science classroom in the high school? Is it what it needs to be to preempt what we see rampant across society? And apparently it's not enough or it's not the right ingredients. And so I've thought quite a bit about consider. You know, there's this song by Alice Cooper. I don't know, the title of the song maybe just called Schools Out. And the line goes, schools out for the summer. Schools out. an. It's anthemic, right? It's like, school is done and I'm done with school, and I'm going to celebrate that with a rock song. And so no one seems to be asking what's going on in school so that you would celebrate not having to go to school when your only job is to learn. That's an OD state we find ourselves in. And I don't want to blame the student, all right, we've all toiled through classes, but if your only job is to learn, maybe that can be made joyous. Maybe the curiosity necessary to learn, to learn on your own is what school needs to impart in all of its students, so that when you get out of school, you say, I'm sad school is over. But I now will continue to learn on my own because I've been inculcated with a. That's not a good word. I have been infused with, a curiosity about all that I still have yet to learn. Okay, that's a foundational comment about the school system. More specifically about science. We're taught science in these fat books with words that are bold faced that you're supposed to memorize for the exam, and then you move on. And I don't remember science being taught as a means of querying nature. Science is a tool to probe what you do not yet know. And the scientific method, which whoever can remember how to recite it, the recitation and the words used are not very informative. Test hypothesis. No, that's not what the scientific method is. I will tell you what the scientific method is. It is do whatever it takes to not fool yourself into thinking something is true that is not. Or that something is not true that is. That's what the scientific method is. Top to bottom, left to right, front to back. And if it means we can't trust our senses, bring out a chart recorder or bring out some other methods. If it means you're biased, get someone else to check your bias. If you have a hidden bias within you that you don't even see yourself, what are some of the. And, if you're susceptible to thinking something is true just because it feels good, get someone else for whom their feelings are not invested in it being true and get their view on it and compare it with yours. These are ways for the checks and balances of what it is you declare to be true. What I have found is a lot of the misinformation is peddled, shall I use that word? By charismatic people who will tell you, on a YouTube channel or whatever is their platform. I'm telling you the truth. But the big establishment wants to suppress it because they don't want you to know it. Apparently. That's irresistible. It's irresistible for truth telling. It's irresistible for product marketing. All right, I have this new device that will bypass all of these decades of marketing that's gone on with Big Pharma, big business, big government, and I am your advocate. Oh, my gosh. We're all in. When someone appeals in that way, advertisers know this because they know that you will respond more readily to a testimony of another human being than you will to a bar chart or a pie chart, which might encapsulate all the information you need to know about the integrity of the product, but that's insufficient. Get one person saying, this was the best thing I'd ever seen, and say, wow, I want that. So there's a missing dimension to our educational training. Much of it is rooted in our knowledge, understanding, and awareness of probability and statistics. Can you read the weight loss data and find out that 90% of the people do not have the result of the person who's testifying? Did you read that? Did you look at that? If you want to know where you're likely to fall in the data, go take a look. No, you don't want to fall there. You want to be with the successful person. So our inability to think statistically confounds our ability to think sensibly and rationally about data and without understanding what the scientific method is, especially with regard to our bias, implicit or explicit bias, known or unknown bias. It leaves adults susceptible for all the behavior we see on the Internet and especially in social media. So I'm taking the hard, easy answer to you and saying it's the educational system that, if it were properly wired, would preempt so much of what we see in conduct in adulthood. That's a very long answer to your question. But you asked a very loaded question there.

Sean Sublette: Well, there's a lot going on there. I'm absolutely of the same mind that there is a lot of money to be made in a capitalistic society and selling something, selling information that people already want to believe. So I'm absolutely of the same mind there. And we see that, all the time.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: I want to add one other thing I meant to include. So there's the charismatic person who's telling you they have the answer and others don't. There's also the lone expert. Okay, the person. And we saw this during COVID There's some MDs who are just right. That is not mainstream medicine. This is fringe medicine talking. And so they'll have their pedigree on the screen. MD, Stanford, Harvard, whatever these name. Impressive places. And then you're going to say, well, that's what I want to think is true anyway. It resonates with where I'm coming from. So I'm going to go with them, and I'm going to tell people, I'm listening to an expert. What people are not realizing is that scientific, objective truths are not established by lone wolves. They're established by repeated measurements, observations of, a declared result. And only when the repeated measurements verify it is that result. Anything that can be brought into the world of objective truths until that happens. It is fringe for some reason. Forces were operating to get the public to think that mainstream equals bad for some reason.

Cutting through the disinformation in science

Neil deGrasse Tyson: When mainstream is exactly what progresses science, it is precisely how it works, and mainstream is not. Oh, let's just all agree and be stubborn about it. No, mainstream is. These are experiments that repeatedly give us approximately or precisely the same result. We're going with it and we're moving on to the next problem, where you will see us fight about what's true and what's not on the frontier. but until then, no. And by the way, the researchers are faceless entities. The people who verify their research, you don't know who they are, they don't have YouTube channels. And so there's this charismatic person speaking on their own YouTube channel, and there's this vaguely rooted result you hear. It sounds vague. Well, some research has found that this is what's actually going on. Here's what you should do. No, I'm listening to this person. And so that's just to round out what it is you were trying to get across there.

Sean Sublette: No, I tell people that in meteorology, before the computers got so good in these last 20 years, the best forecast is a consensus forecast. You take ten meteorologists, they look at the data, you take the average of all, they say over time, that's going to be the forecast that ends up correct. There will always be this occasional outlier, for sure, but in the longer term, that's where the money is to be made.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Right? And by the way, the word consensus, I think, officially means opinion. And so that consensus of opinion is actually redundant. But when we use the word consensus for science, these aren't opinions being expressed. These are the results of scientific experiments that are being reported by scientists. It's not simply their opinion that. No, it may come across that way. You say, well, what's the best medical opinion? Right. Opinions are, get a second opinion. All right? Usually when you ask for a second opinion, it's because you didn't like the first answer and you're going to keep doctor hopping until you find an answer you like, and then you're going to say, that's the diagnosis, which is itself a confirmation bias, which is the most pernicious among the biases. I wish we had a different word, but we have to use it. Scientific consensus is the alignment of research outcomes, not the alignment of whimsical opinions held by scientists themselves.

Sean Sublette: Well, talk about word usage for a minute, because we know there are certain words we use in the scientific community that have very different connotations in the general public. The first one that comes to mind is theory. When we say a scientific theory, that's pretty close to being effect, as opposed to some kind of wishy washy thing that a lot of, the general public sees, that's kind of hypothesis. We're nowhere near that yet.

Are there some words Neil deGrasse Tyson avoids in communication about science?

Sean Sublette: Are there some words that you've kind of run up against and you've kind of just decided to avoid in communication?

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Tons. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, if you're going to communicate, if you're going to call yourself an educator communicator, then you've got to sift through your entire lexicon, see what works, see what doesn't, see what. Now, I am fortunate. My expertise is in a field where our lexicon is highly transparent, so that I spend much less time defining words for someone than would normally occur with other professions. Jupiter has a big red spot on its atmosphere. We call it Jupiter's red spot. Right. The sun has spots. They're officially called sun spots. Right. So I don't have to then define what a sunspot is. I can just use the term and keep talking about them. So just make that clear with regard to theory. What I've done is because, it's very hard to change the public's understanding of a word. If that word has usage outside of your field, that will persist no matter how you define it for them. So theory is one of those words. So someone at home will know, I have a theory that my, so that's how they're using the word theory. You can't knock on every door and tell people to use the word differently. So I use the word theory only for established theories that are already in place. Einstein's general theory of relativity, special freely, evolutionary, theory, this sort of thing. And when people say, oh, well, if it's just a theory, that's, of course, the buzz phrase, I say, no, a theory is the highest level of understanding we have of the universe. It is not the lowest level. The lowest level would be a hypothesis. So if someone says, well, if I have a theory that, no, I say, Einstein had a theory, you have a hypothesis awaiting testing, and then people chuckle at that. So no one is then, distracted by it. So the word hypothesis is very helpful in this regard. Just tell people they have a hypothesis. If it's not yet tested, it's a hypothesis. If it's tested and it organizes ideas and it gives us insights into future discoveries, it is elevated to the level of theory. So I will say that if the conversation goes there. But if I'm just a few sentences and sound bites on the evening news, I will not use the term at all, by the way, nor will I use the word fact. A fact is that word is fraught. It's fraught because it is a fact that, if I remember the quotes correctly, it's a fact that President Trump said you could use bleach to cure COVID or whoever. It is a fact that they said it. That doesn't mean it works. So there's plenty of facts out there that reference things that are not true. So, like I said, the word fact is fraught. It is a fact that Andrew Wakefield published a paper declaring a, connection between MmR M M. vaccine and the m m measles, mumps, rubella vaccine and autism. There's a fact that he published a paper exploring that connection. That doesn't mean that's a connection. So it is a fact that mothers reported that after their kids were vaccinated, they showed, symptoms of autism. Okay? That doesn't make it a cause and effect correlation. So I don't. I never use the word fact ever. The word does not work to that point.

Sean Sublette: Are there other words that you were able to use in your external communications 1520 years ago? You just throw your hands up like, I can't use that word anymore. It's lost its meaning in the general conversation. I've got to think of something else now.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Yeah, of course. No, it's not an aha moment. It's a continual assessment and measurement of the stock value of words as they are used, come in and out of use as their definitions shift, as cultural, social, religious, political mores shift. You can't just declare that no one wants to learn. Or how come, they don't do their homework. Then you're not being an educator. Sorry. You're not being a communicator. Yeah, you are. You're being the professor talking to the chalkboard while you write down your equations. And without any concern whether people are either paying attention or meeting you 90% of the way there. You can't claim yourself to be a communicator unless you turn around, face the audience, and meet them 90% of the way towards wherever their brain wiring is. This happens all the time. I also find that humor enables people to smile while they're learning, and then they come back for more. But the landscape of humor has changed, as you surely know, over the years and especially over the recent decades. Certain things that were funny in 2000 are not funny today because our sensitivities have been realigned or arisen, or maybe the sensitivities were always there, but there was no platform, to position them. So, yes, plenty of words. Happens all the time.

Sean Sublette: All right, so let's step back a little bit and we talk about.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Here's a good example. I wrote about this in the late 90s. So this is 25 years, in the can right now of, course in science, in a measurement, we speak of measurement errors. And so the public wants to know what is the answer? And they don't really have much way to embrace measurement errors. It doesn't really work unless we retrain everyone in school.

Sean Sublette: I don't think box and whisker plots test, very well, do they?

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Exactly. So what happens is I saw a news account of, a research paper that described the result, and it said, oh, but, it didn't catch on because the paper had a lot of errors in it. I said, what does that even mean? And then I realized the paper talked about the measurement errors, and the journalists thought that this meant it had errors. And so I've never used the word error unless it's a literal error. So I changed error to uncertainty. I wrote an essay called Certain Uncertainties, where I talked about, when you measure something, there's uncertainties around those measurements. And I don't even use the word margin of error, which is still used when they report political voting results. That's a start. Margin of error plus or, -3% that came in, in the last 20 years. That's very good. It's a start. But error is the wrong word because they are not errors. Even though we use that term, uncertainty still works. That still has scientific validity, and you don't have to define it for the public. They know what an uncertainty is. And you can say some measured, quantities are more uncertain than others. That is a completely understandable sentence.

What would happen if the sun instantly went away?

Sean Sublette: All right, before I cut you loose, I do have a couple of more tangible science questions.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Sorry I haven't given you a chance to ask. No, this is two questions so far.

Sean Sublette: This is just extraordinary. And I'm happy to have you here and talk about these things. So I was reading the book and.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Which book?

Sean Sublette: The most recent one. To infinity and beyond.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Yes. Just came out two months ago.

Sean Sublette: So, speed of light, of course, we know the speed of light, and it takes eight minutes for sunlight to get to Earth.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: About that. Yeah.

Sean Sublette: Right. One of the things that I have trouble thinking about, and this is one of these cosmic query type things, sun instantly goes away. We wouldn't know about it for eight minutes.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: That's correct. We'd still orbit, we'd still feel sunlight, we'd still feel gravity.

Sean Sublette: That's exactly what I wanted to ask. Does the gravitational information also take eight minutes? Does the Earth still act as if it is going in orbit around the sun, or is that gravitational force instantly gone?

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Yeah. So, there's a slight, subtle difference here. In Einsteinian description of gravity, gravity is the curvature of spacetime. Okay? So we are orbiting in this curved spacetime continuum caused by the sun. And the dimples in a rubber sheet get you most of the way to understand that. Where we are sort of, spiraling, orbiting, in the dimple. Okay. So if you instantly take away the sun, that is a change in the gravitational field. And changes in the gravitational field move at the speed of light. So it would take eight minutes for you to even know that the sun's gravitational field was no longer operating on Earth, and we would instantly fly off at a tangent if that were the case. I mean, after the eight minutes. Eight minutes and 20 seconds, if you want to be precise.

Sean Sublette: Right.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: And, Einstein demonstrated that gravity would move at the same as the speed of light.

Sean Sublette: All right, excellent.

Neil deGrasse Tyson explains his speaking tour and what to expect

Sean Sublette: Last thing before I let you go, talk a little bit about this speaking tour. I've seen it advertised at different theaters slightly different ways. Is it going to be very different at each place, or is this kind of all tying back to, to infinity and beyond, or what can people kind of expect?

Neil deGrasse Tyson: So thanks for noticing that. So, my speaking tour is hardly ever bordering on never related to books that I've just published. The speaking tour is I get invited by a city, and many cities across the country, fascinatingly, have this sort of old grand Dam theater from 100 years ago, that if there's municipal funds, typically there are or business interests, they fix it up and what do you call it? Renovate. And they fix up the molding and the statues and the gilding. And so it's beautiful spaces. And these are back when going to a theater, you would dress up to go to see movies in the movie theater. So many of them come from that era. So many towns have such theaters, and they remain in active use. I get invited to a city to present, and so I'm, honored and flattered. I give them a list of twelve to 15 possible topics that they choose from, and then they tell me, we want you to come talk on this subject. And that's what I do. So for Richmond, they picked the topic that I've given them. Cosmic collisions. Oh, my gosh. Cosmic things that go bump in the night. There's so many things that collide. Stars collide, galaxies collide, black holes collide. Asteroids collide with Earth. We collided with an asteroid recently to try to deflect it. So it's everything that's going on in the universe. This idea that, oh, we live in a static, beautiful. No, the universe is a shooting gallery. And so I'm there to talk about how much of a shooting gallery it is. And yes, I have some videos, slides, and it's mostly me talking, but that's what Richmond is getting. There are other topics, I think I've been in this venue before. Other topics that either they didn't choose because I was there a couple of years ago or not would be the search for life in the universe. And that's continually being updated with the congressional hearings on aliens and all of this. That's a whole topic, search for life in the universe. One of my favorites is an astrophysicist goes to the movies, and that's where I highlight all manner of scenes, not just from Sci-Fi films, but other films you would never imagine cared about science. Yet there's science in it, either done very well or done very badly. And I highlight that. And that was so popular. There’s a sequel to it called an astrophysicist goes to the movies. The sequel, anyhow, that's just a smattering of the topics. And typically there's a book that I written recently, and if the theater is interested, they might task a local, indie publisher to sell them in the lobby. But most of the time, that's not what happens. And if they do, it has nothing to do with the talk. In other words, when I go on, quote, tour, I'm, not trying to sell you anything. I'm a servant of your appetite, of your cosmic appetite, as declared by the host for whatever it's their judgment of the audience's interest.

Sean Sublette: Excellent.

Sean Sublette: Well, I've got the book. It's wonderful. And personally, thank you for, as a meteorologist, thank you for starting with the atmosphere in the book.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Oh, we did. Thanks for noticing that we start.

Sean Sublette: Oh, I noticed that right away.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Yeah, there's a whole discussion of the atmosphere, because the book, to infinity and beyond, by the way, it's a beautiful book. I would say that even if I was not co-author of it, I co-wrote it with our longtime senior, producer for Startalk my podcast. This is a collaboration between Star Talk and National Geographic books. And so the book is, they don't know how to make an ugly book. This is National Geographic, so it's highly illustrated. And it's an exploration of what it was like standing flat footed on Earth, looking up. And what did it take for us to ascend from Earth to the stars and know we go from Icarus? That's a nice first story to tell. And Icarus dies. And you say to yourself, well, oh, I'm not going to try to fly. Or you're going to say, well, let me maybe design the wings differently of a different material rather than wax. Okay. And of course, they thought that temperature would get higher as you ascended the atmosphere, when, of course, the exact opposite is the case. And so it's fun to explore what was imagined to be sort of infinitely far away in the history of this quest. We would then conquer it. Let me use a less militaristic word. We would then achieve those goals, and then we're standing in a new place now. We are now in balloons, and we can say, well, how do we fly with not a balloon. Now we have airplanes, and how do we fly out of the atmosphere? We have rockets. How do we fly beyond? How do we fly to the moon? How do we fly beyond the moon? Well, we can't do that yet, but we can send our robotic emissaries. How do we go beyond those? Well, then our mind takes us there. All right. And so part of this quest, the whole book chronicles and storytells this quest, which is quite, the noblest thing. Our species did it, and no one other, species comes close to even wondering that this could be something we could do. So I got to hand it to humans, to making this work in that way. So, yeah, that book only just came out two months ago and very proud of it, and it's a very beautiful. And the DNA of my podcast, Star Talk, is science, pop culture, and humor. I mentioned humor earlier. The pop culture part is you show up at the door with a pop culture scaffold that I already know, because that's the definition of pop culture. It's a common knowledge. I don't have to say who Beyoncé is or what a football field looks like. There's certain fundamentals that are out there. We take the science and clad it onto that scaffold so that you already care about something, and now you care about it more because I've added more information for you to celebrate about the thing this pop culture thing you cared about. Point is, in this book, we do that continually. If there's a Hollywood movie that touches some of the topics that we address, this is like the scenery along the way of the book. I dip into the movie and we talk about how well the movie did or didn't, portray that physics.

Sean Sublette: Wonderful. Dr. Tyson, I know you've got to get going, so thank you so much for your time. Shout out to Chuck, nice and all the team there at Star Talk. Love the work, love what he brings to it as well. And when you have the guest, my.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Comedian, my co-host, comedian or foil.

Sean Sublette: But, it's wonderful. Thank you so much. Looking forward to seeing you, when you're down here in Richmond next week. And travel safe, sir.

Neil deGrasse Tyson: Excellent. Thank you for those well wishes.

Neil deGrasse Tyson says you have to reach people where they are

Sean Sublette: And guys. I was just absolutely in my element talking with him about science and how to communicate science, and the things you want to do, as he said, to reach people where they are. I let my daughter know I was doing this and she really emphasized this point that he made is that you have to meet people 90% of where they are already. Don't turn your back and write on a chalkboard. Look at people, be with people, understand where they are to make that connection with them. That is so key in this day and Age.

Joe Martucci: I agree with that 100%. I think I might even said on this podcast, when it comes to weather forecast, you Have, I don't kNow, maybe two dozen places to get a weather forecast from at any given point in time, at any point in day. So what differentiates you from those other 24 people? Well, accuracy is going to have something to do with it, but a lot of times it has to do with the connection that you have with the community. Now, there's downsides to that. as Neil deGrasse Tyson spoke about, you have some people who are very personable, but who might not know what they're talking about. But when you have somebody who knows what they're talking about is in the community or meeting with the people where they are, that is where you have the best results. And that's why you have people like Neil deGrasse Tyson, who's widely respected and acclaimed not only because he knows what he's talking about, but because he's doing it in a way where you can listen and say, hey, yeah, I know what he's talking about. Hey, I Know What She's Talking About.

Joe Martucci: So, great job, Sean, with the podcast.

Matt Holiner: yeah, there's just a lot to unpack mean, I wish we could have kept the conversation going. I wish we all could have been in there and asked questions. We could have chatted with him for hours. But obviously a very busy guy and does not have the time for, you know, I think what really highlighted for me the challenge that we're facing these days is he went through words that are difficult to use these days and have double meanings. He talked about how he doesn't even like to use the word fact. He Said the word does NOt work, fact. And that kind of blew my mind. It's like, gosh, we don't even know what facts are because he says it's a fact that somebody said this, but it's not a fact that what they said is true. And it's like, gosh, that's a good point. So even the meaning of the word fact is difficult. And how I liked also how he used, if something hasn't been tested yet, what you're saying is a hypothesis. It's not a theory. He talked about, oh, I have a theory about this. It's like, no, you have a hypothesis because you haven't tested it yet. If it's been tested, then you can call it a theory. So just talking about that and the word error, he mentioned that as well. How if you use the word error, people might say, oh, well, then this paper is just garbage because it's full of errors. Like, no, those were measurement errors. It's talking about uncertainty. It wasn't an error itself. So he's very cautious about the word error and only using the word error when a true error was made. So, gosh, we have to be so careful about the wording because it can be misconstrued and misunderstood so easily. Gosh, him just going through those different words just shows you what a challenge it is today, how you have to be so careful about the wording and is all about the wording and being very explicit and explaining things in detail. Otherwise it'll get totally misunderstood.

Sean Sublette: It takes a lot of work because certain words have different connotations. And like you said, you're not going to go in, knock on people's doors and go, no, you're using that word wrong. You're not going to do that. Right. So this is why you kind of have to take opportunities as they come to redirect, what you want to get out of a word or a meaning like that. It's like when we talk about weather, we talk about severe weather. In meteorology, we're talking about something very specific. We're talking about damaging winds that are generally more than 58 miles an hour. We're talking about a tornado. But to a lot of the general public, severe weather is just bad. That's just bad weather, right? So language is always changing, and as he said, it's always evolving. It's not like, well, we just kind of watch how the lexicon changes. Some terms just don't mean what they used to. Humor is changing through time, so it is always a process. And I think that's one of the things that anybody who's trying to communicate science needs to be aware of. And he does a great job with the humor as Well. I try to do it with humor. sometimes I'm a little more successful, than others, but it was certainly just a great podcast. I'm very grateful for him, to spend some time with us.

Coming up on the Across the Sky podcast: American Ninja Warrior, Bob Dylan and more!

Sean Sublette: Joe. We've got a couple other more interesting things coming up, down the pike, right?

Joe Martucci: Oh, yeah, we sure do. So coming up on the, Monday after Thanksgiving, this is October. Excuse me. November 22. Oh, my gosh. Doing it all wrong. Let's try it again. November 27. There we go. Third time is a charm. We are going to have Joe Morovsky from American Ninja Warrior Come on the podcast. Joe, is also known as the Weatherman on American Ninja Warrior. Yes, he is a meteorologist, and yes, we are going to talk to him about the weather and his time on the NBC hit show. Then on December the fourth, we actually have one of my college professors, Dr. Alan Robock. Now he courses a meteorologist, but he's also a very big Bob Dylan fan. In fact, he's such a Bob Dylan fan that he did his PhD thesis on Bob Dylan and the Weather. so that is really interesting. And then we also have an episode for you on December 18. That's going to be ten things to know about winter. And then sometime in that week, between Christmas and New Year's, we're going to have our year in review. So the train keeps on rolling here at the across the Sky podcast team. we've gotten a couple of emails of feedback over the past days and weeks, and we certainly appreciate that. And you certainly can continue to send that to [email protected] that's [email protected]. Or feeling like it and want to give us a call. You certainly can at 609-272-7099. 609-272-7099 Back to you, Sean.

Sean Sublette: All right, good stuff all around. Anything else, Matt? Are you good, man?

Matt Holiner: I'm still letting that interview wash over me. Man. I, think the other thing he know, a lot of times, a lot of the people that are spreading misinformation are very charismatic, and so that's why they're catchy and people latch onto them. But it's like, well, you know what? We need charismatic people to be spreading good information. He is the prime example. We need more Neil deGrasse Tysons in the world to spread good information and be charismatic.

Sean Sublette: Yeah. No argument with that for me. All right, gentlemen, thank you very much. And Joe Martucci and Matt Holiner. And in absentia, Kirsten Lang in Tulsa, thanks for joining us. A week on the across the Sky Podcast. I'm meteorologist Sean sublet in Richmond, Virginia. Have a great week, and we will see you next time.

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