Moving the needle on health care access and health disparities is no easy task. Inequities for people of color are embedded in the U.S. health system, shaping their health care journeys and often leading to outcomes worse than those experienced by white Americans.

That’s where Dr. Chris Pernell, director of NAACP’s Center for Health Equity, comes in. “Sometimes you got to make those systems bend, and other times you got to disrupt those systems, innovate and invent, and create and design.”

In this episode of The Dose podcast, host Joel Bervell talks to Dr. Pernell about her work on health equity, the systems that need to be disrupted, and the innovations needed to build a more inclusive health system.