The US military's AI provider Anthropic is feuding with the Pentagon after the company tried to impose 'red lines' over the use of its artificial intelligence products for lethal autonomous weapons and mass surveillance of Americans. President Trump accused the US firm of being 'radical left' and designated it a 'supply chain risk' – usually reserved for Chinese or Russian firms who could compromise US security. Our panel discusses the dispute, the battle to control artificial intelligence systems already being used in Iran, Venezuela and Ukraine, and how a public battle between tech and government throws a much-needed spotlight on the wider global issues of AI governance and who is – or isn't – writing rules for the new era of warfare. They also look at how China is pushing ahead quickly with its plan to integrate 'AI Plus' into all aspects of its economy and military. This week's guest host of the Independent Thinking podcast is Alex Krasodomski, director of Chatham House's Digital Society Programme. He is joined by Laurel Rapp, director of the US and North America Programme; and James Kynge, a senior research fellow with the Asia-Pacific Programme who has spent years studying China and its high-technology industrial sector.

Produced by Stephen Farrell and Sara Seth.

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