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This timely episode was recorded before the horrors of the Manchester Yom Kippur Synagogue terrorist attack of October 2nd and the potential optimism of the Trump deal to end the Gaza War which is currently in limbo. This episode deals extensively with issues of antisemitism, humanitarian suffering in Gaza, and the potentialities of Middle East peace. As we mark 2 years since the horrific October 7th massacre in Israel -- and the disastrous regional wars and tragic humanitarian crisis in Gaza that have ensued in its wake-- we here at Disorder are producing a two-episode series dealing with the legacy of that fateful day: one from a British-Jewish perspective and one from a Palestinian-American perspective. 

Join us next week to hear our conversation with Sam Bahour, who will give the perspective from Ramallah. 

Producer: George McDonagh

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Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10

Read a report from Phil’s organisation on the Response to 7th October – how the UK Jewish community was impacted.

https://www.jpr.org.uk/reports/year-after-october-7-british-jewish-views-israel-antisemitism-and-jewish-life 

For more on Trump’s Gaza peace initiative: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/05/world/middleeast/trump-netanyahu-gaza-deal.html 

For more on The Board of Deputies of British Jews work to tackle antisemitism visit https://bod.org.uk/bod-news/commission-on-antisemitism/ 

For a legal and structural argument for why recognition of a Palestinian State will  not help make piece listen to this Call Me Back episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/call-me-back-with-dan-senor/id1539292794?i=1000727804529 

Listen to our previous episode with Joseph Uscinski on Conspiracy Theories and their hidden logic: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2nvlI3hR1VFyMbgKaZddyi 

Listen to our previous episode on extremism and Conspiracy Theories with Julia Ebner: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/MjJkNjlmZDItMDExZi0xMWYwLTg4MWUtZGZjZDhiYzFhNTEz

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To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10

When Trump stormed into UNGA last week, complained about escalators and tele prompters, and swung back out… the UN was faced with some questions. How do we navigate a world through Trump’s America? And what does it mean for the very future of the UN?

To find out, and reflect on UNGA as a whole, Jane is joined by Richard Gowan, the International Crisis Group's UN expert. They discuss Trump’s speech, Netanyahu’s appearance, and who will be the next UN Secretary General when elections take place?

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10

Read Richard’s piece ‘Ten Challenges for the UN in 2025-2026’ https://www.crisisgroup.org/global/sb13-ten-challenges-un-2025-2026 

Read Richard in Foreign Policy on America’s Infuriating and Irreplaceable Role at the U.N. https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/09/19/trump-washington-united-nations-unga-reform/ 

Read Calls grow for first female UN chief in 80 years https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/calls-grow-first-female-un-chief-80-years-2025-09-26/ 

Burmese academic Thant Myint-U on the legacy of his grandfather, former SG U Thant, and the need for the UN to reclaim its role in peace and security - https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2025-09/u-thant-helped-save-world-nuclear-war-1962-who-could-do-now 

Martin Griffiths, former UN humanitarian chief, on the UN at 80, including his thought on the Black Sea grain deal that Richard referenced - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/aug/26/un-recover-courage-palestine-ukraine-sudan 

Listen to To Save Us From Hell, Mark Goldberg's podcast about the UN, focusing here on Trump's speech - https://www.globaldispatches.org/p/your-countries-are-going-to-hell-9f5

Watch Jane’s thoughts from New York https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iBppHmWp8Cc 

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We here at Disorder are thrilled to announce a subscription Club with lots of perks for our fans. Given these dire times and our inability to break even we really need your support. To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10

Even a small amount from you on the lowest tier will go along way for us, so thank you so much for your generosity. 

Now to today’s episode, this week, we take listener questions and announce on air our new Mega Orderers Club, how it will work, and what perks we will offer. Jason and Jane discuss the need for local government to both ‘fix the potholes’ while tackling long term issues. Plus: Is free speech dead in America? Are we doing enough on climate change? And what role will the UK’s Green Party’s new leader Zack Polanski play in fighting Farage’s Neo-populism?

And as they try to end on a positive note – Jane feels inspired by her conversations about multilateralism, while Jason sees American culture as possessing reserves of strength and social cohesion, if only those can be drawn on for Order, tolerance, and acceptance.

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

Join the Mega Orderers Club via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm?sc_promo=DISORDER10 

And For a legal and structural argument for why recognition of a Palestinian State will  not help make piece listen to this Call Me Back episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/call-me-back-with-dan-senor/id1539292794?i=1000727804529 

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For a special bonus episode, we give you Jason’s conversation with Michael Baranowski, of The Politics Guys podcast. They discuss: Jason’s concept of global enduring disorder, the implications of this disorder for global politics, the role of the US, and the need for new governance structures to address transnational challenges. Plus: the rise of neopopulism across the globe, its implications for democracy, and the challenges it poses to the current global order. And as they Order the Disorder, they find rays of hope in the resilience of the US economy and the strength of Ukrainian allies.

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

For more on the Politics Guys visit - https://politicsguys.com/ 

Listen to their episode Is There Really Democracy in America? - https://politicsguys.com/is-there-really-democracy-in-america/ 

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Investors are frogs in a Trumpian pot. As he turns the water up will they jump or boil?

Trump has chaotically imposed tariffs on the global economy-- replete with arbitrary numbers, 90-day pauses, and then different outcomes for similar countries. Many predicted this type of chaotic policymaking would tank the US stock markets, make the bond markets panic, and trigger a worldwide recession. Jason at least assumed UVXY would spike as volatility would soar. Yet US markets are hitting record highs. Even foreigners are still willing to buy US equities, albeit while hedging their dollar risk. What is going on here? Why do the Markets seem to love Trump? Why are markets addicted to low interest rates and cheap money? Why do markets want less regulation even though it can lead to crashes? Why don’t the markets react with Trump threatens Powell, Lisa Cook, and Fed Independence?

To find out, Jason is joined this week by Katie Martin, the Markets columnist at the Financial Times and host of the Unhedged Podcast. They discuss how Europe should respond to Trump’s craziness, why US Big tech stocks (and the data centre construction fad) are keeping the market afloat, the implications of big money continuously ploughing into AI without knowing if AI will really be profitable, and the shifting focus from public to private markets. Plus: Gilts vs Treasuries, the UK’s fiscal woes, and whether the Euro could replace the dollar as the world’s most important reserve currency. And to Order the Disorder, they discuss the formation of a new global body to tackle inequality globally.

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

Read Investors are frogs in a Trumpian pot by Katie https://on.ft.com/3K67eCm 

Read Time to give the euro a glow-up by Katie https://on.ft.com/4mhfWuP 

Read The bond doom-mongers have got at least one thing right https://on.ft.com/41TpXqT 

Check out Katie’s Unhedged podcast: https://www.ft.com/unhedged-podcast 

Watch How has Trump changed the global economy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwKt43ruWCo

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Rg9YCYehqQc

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As Trump touches down in the UK, Elon Musk provokes a riot in Westminister and Kier Starmer’s government is set to recognise Palestinian Statehood.

Last week, Israel attacked Hamas leaders in Qatar. Did they hit them? Did they miss? Did Mossad advise against the IDF’s plan? There’s a lot of Disorder out there.

To discuss these issues as well as: his recent family vacation road trip across France, the politics of theme parks, how AI will transform advertising, and how Trump actually exudes a unique form of charisma  in person, Jason is joined by a new Mega Ordererer, Mark Lobel -- a BBC journalist and TV anchor with two decades experience covering business, technology, the Middle East, and more. 

In their free-flowing conversation, they discuss the implications of Trump's upcoming UK visit, Israel’s risky move in Qatar, how AI will completely change political communication, and the debt crisis in France.

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

For more on Mark’s Mega-Ordering Background: 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/4t9w5sRNMnyfdT77k0Ym4v7/mark-lobel

and https://www.mark-lobel.com/bio 

For more on the Israeli attack on Qatar and how Mossad was against the IDF’s plan: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/call-me-back-with-dan-senor/id1539292794?i=1000725930815

For more on nationalist re-enactment theme parks in France: https://www.puydufou.com/france/en/must-see-france 

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Britain has a new Foreign Secretary, Yvette Cooper, and this week’s episode dives into the UK’s foreign policy and how it could in theory transcend some of the country’s current political divides. To dig into this topic, Jane and Jason are joined by Michael Stephens, senior fellow at Global Nation and an associate fellow at RUSI. Mike’s new report, ‘Rules Britannia’ is being launched today, and is full of proposals for how Britain can help Order the Disorder. Mike and his co-authors are trying to build a broad consensus across political parties and traditions, to advance ‘a unifying vision of Britain’s role in the world that is grounded in our national values’.

Brits do generally see their country as one that can play a positive role in the world. But the recent years have lost that consensus with rival sloans: from Brexit and “Global Britain”, to the short-lived “tilt to the Indo-Pacific”, then the “NATO-first” approach of the strategic defence review. In short, recent British policy has been somewhat confused by the succession of different governments and foreign secretaries in the past few years. And as results British citizens do not feel current policy reflects their priorities.

Delving into the topic, the panel talk about opportunities for the U.K. to play a leading role in areas that it’s good at: rule of law, international finance and public health. These are the domains where there can be cross-party support rooted in a sense of Britain’s comparative advantages. We also discuss why Ukraine has - so far - been a unifying cause for Brits, with successive prime ministers committed to supporting the country’s independence with military assistance - in stark contrast to the US. And who else can Britain work with in a “global middle-power alliance” to “change the calculations of the rule-breakers that are currently upending the international order” (per the report), while also trying to persuade the US not to abandon that order wholesale? In one of the punchier moments of debate, Jason questions why migration is dominating the headlines and why no one right now in British politics seems to want to make the positive case for attracting the best talent from around the world.

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links: 

Britain rules out backing for global defence bank - Reuters https://apple.news/AjpCOumOZTFaB9wBe7VJH1w 

Hassan Damluji, Michael Stephens and Anna Hope  - Rules Britannia: How a foreign policy guided by fair play can keep Britain safe and promote economic growth https://globalnation.world/publications/rules-britannia-how-a-foreign-policy-guided-by-fair-play-can-promote-economic-growth-and-keep-britain-safe/ 

Steve Bloomfield, International Editor of The Observer, Since when did the Foreign Office become a demotion? https://observer.co.uk/news/politics/article/since-when-did-the-foreign-office-become-a-demotio 

Was this a missed opportunity for Britain to lead on financing defence for democratic allies? Britain rules out backing global defence bank -

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/britain-rules-out-backing-global-defence-bank-2025-09-04/ 

Background on today’s angry debate about migration in Britain: The “Boriswave” – how the Conservative government that was elected to “get Brexit done” adopted policies that massively boosted migration (from outside the EU) - https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2025/02/the-boriswave-problem 

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With the West’s ability to promote democratic transitions essentially dead, a struggle for influence is unfolding inside Bangladesh. Its traditional alliance with India is being replaced by a scramble for economic influence among China, Pakistan, the US, and Russia – none of whom are genuinely committed to promoting free elections inside the country. If you add in the fallout from the recent India-Pakistan war and Trump’s tarriffs against India for importing Russian crude, you could say that a full-blown great game for South Asia is a foot.

Amidst this backdrop, we return to our investigation of Bangladesh as a microcosm of the Global Enduring Disorder. There, a year ago Sheikha Hasina was removed by student protests. Since then the Nobel Laurate Mohammad Younis has been presiding over a caretaker government, which has pledged it will hold elections in February 2026.

On today’s pod, we will explore how the IG (interim government) in Bangladesh has essentially done all the same things that it accused the previous government of doing- locking up journalists, being repressive, taking over the economy, favouring cronies, and shying away from democratic reforms. They have said the election will be Feb but many analysts we spoke to don’t believe them. We at the Disorder pod think it is equally our role to try to hold Bangladeshi politicians to account to honour their laws and commitments, just as we would do with Trump when he violates the constitution or tries to tamper with Federal Reserve Independence.  Being tough on developing world democracies is our sign of respect for them.

To help guide the mega orderers on this journey, Jason is joined by Taufiq Rahim. He is the author of Trump 2.5: A Primer and Middle East in Crisis & Conflict: A Primer, and he publishes longform essays on Geopolitico. Taufiq is a Senior Fellow for the Future Security Program at New America and a Research Fellow at the Mohammed bin Rashid School of Government.

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links: 

Our previous episode on Bangladesh https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/ZTJiYmNmYmEtN2IzOC0xMWVmLTkxNmMtMGI4YjI4NjI4ZThm?view=apps&sort=popularity 

Trump's Kashmir Conundrum - National Review https://apple.news/A1njysA98SYeo0r2UvWiqlw 

The China-Pakistan-India tussle over Bangladesh (https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/bangladesh-may-have-ended-its-india-china-tightrope-game-but-it-must-continue-to-tread-carefully/)

The evolution of the US-India strategic partnership (https://www.cfr.org/article/will-trumps-india-tariffs-affect-critical-us-partnership) & https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/indias-diplomacy-dual-alignments-russia-and-us

For more on https://taufiqrahim.com/

Trump 2.5: A Primer -- https://trumpprimer.com/

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In early August, one of the most powerful earthquakes ever recorded struck a sparsely populated region in Russia’s far east. It triggered a tsunami that started crossing the ocean, heading towards the coastlines of Japan, Hawaii, and the US west coast. Thankfully… due to successful and orderly global co-ordination, millions were evacuated and countless lives were saved.

This week, Jane and Jason discuss the little-known field of ‘disaster risk’. They look at why we need global coordination for it to work properly, what treaties, and international bodies govern international disaster response, and what successful multilateral efforts in the space of ‘disaster risk’ can teach us about how to Order the Disorder in other domains.

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

For more on the ASRA Conference organisers - https://www.asranetwork.org/

How to save the world report co-authored by Jane https://europeanleadershipnetwork.org/report/how-to-save-the-world-influencing-policy-on-the-biggest-risks-to-humanity/

Florian Jehn on what helps societies and civilisations avoid major crises or collapse - https://existentialcrunch.substack.com/p/some-factors-that-could-help-societies

Lara Mani’s charity, the Global Volcanic Risk Alliance - https://www.globalvolcanoriskalliance.com/

Read Jason’s article on An Orderly World Championships of Backgammon: https://ukbgf.com/an-orderly-world-championships-of-backgammon/ 

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It is our favourite time of the month. Jane and Jason take on the mega orderering listeners’ questions – focussing mostly on the Middle East, the Trump-Putin summit, and any rays of ordering hope that might be on the horizon. They look at the unlikely role of UN peacekeeping forces in the West Bank, whether the UK, Australia, and France recognising Palestinian Statehood would help anything, and ways to unblock potential pathways to peace in Gaza. Plus: why Trump wants his summit with Putin, the increasing role of disinformation in democracies and finally, as always we try to Order the Disorder by offer some rays hope as to where there could be some Order in our mad mad mad mad world. Jason proposes that people power might be the answer and teasers his forthcoming book project.

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

And Join the paid substack to hear Jason’s story about Israelis behaving badly in Monaco and how it is a metaphor for their isolation globally and the resentment that that breeds.

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

Listen to Jason on BBC Radio Five Live (from 45:40) https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002gzxy 

Read The Limits of Recognition - The Atlantic https://apple.news/AX2K3dnwnQBy2oE9J40g7Eg 

The New York declaration of the recent UN conference on a two-state solution in Israel Palestine https://press.un.org/en/2025/pal2250.doc.htm 

Read Russia and Ukraine must seek a proper framework for talks, says Juan Manuel Santos https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2025/07/25/russia-and-ukraine-must-seek-a-proper-framework-for-talks-says-juan-manuel-santos 

Read How to End the Russia-Ukraine War by Thomas Graham https://www.cfr.org/article/how-end-russia-ukraine-war 

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