For this bonus episode, we invite the orderers to hear a lightly-edited recording of Jason Pack appearing on our sister pod, KeenOn America, where Andrew and Jason discuss Jason’s belief that there was a genuine cover-up by Anglo-American media and the US and UK governments of the Jeffrey Epstein case—not orchestrated by the CIA, but by prosecutors who didn’t want to go after powerful people, journalists who didn’t want to go against an oligarch who could sue them for libel, and a system where orders of magnitudes too much wealth has accrued to too narrow a sliver of global elites. So despite being anti-conspiratorial, Jason concludes that the cover up and the conspiracy were real.

To join our Mega Orderers Club for ad free listening, early episode releases and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

For more on KeenOn go to https://www.keenon.tv/episodes/ 

To join our Mega Orderers Club for ad free listening, early episode releases and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

Podcasts mentioned:

Disorder Episode 167 — "Epstein Survivor Rina Oh on Getting Justice: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/MThlZTFkZjgtMGI4NS0xMWYxLWJkMWMtOGY0YjYzYzZiZGYw 

Disorder Episode 168 — "How Can Epstein's Victims Get Closure? with Civil Rights Attorney Lisa Bloom: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/M2M2NThlNjAtMGI4NS0xMWYxLWExOWItMDcxODNmNmQ5OTky 

Bobby Capucci's "Jeffrey Epstein: The Cover-Up Chronicles" — deep dives into the Epstein files: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jeffrey-Epstein-The-Coverup-Chronicles/dp/B0DZPKRYFG 

Jewish Currents — left-wing Jewish treatment of Epstein's connections to Ehud Barak and the Mossad: https://jewishcurrents.org/on-jeffrey-epstein 

Peter Bale interview (Episode 2813) — discussed the Epstein media cover-up and Michael Wolff's attempts to interest mainstream media: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUNxStxgdxg 

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Here at Disorder, we love solutions, so much so that we’re going to be putting even more solutions into our episodes, by trying to zoom out from developments in the news to potential solutions. This week we start our treatment of news items and then zooming out to solutions with the arrest of former Prince Andrew, the latest from the Epstein files, and the inaugural meeting of Trump’s Board of Peace.

In this episode, Jane and Jason are brimming with ideas, including: how to better police the role of British elites when they play the role of Butlers to the world of dark money and act as useful idiots in reputation laundering; how we could possibly learn from the Olympic spirit to create our very own Mega Ordering ‘diplomatic Olympics’; why Europe needs to step up and play the Ordering role; and how they – and other democracies globally – could set up their own ‘diplomatic board of peace’ to counter Trump’s largely farcical iteration.

To join our Mega Orderers Club, to get our bonus episode answering Jonathan Bull’s question about Jason’s elitism and political mobilization in America, as well as ad free listening, early episode releases and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

To join our Mega Orderers Club, to get our bonus episode answering Jonathan Bull’s question, as well as ad free listening, early episode releases and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

LISTEN: Epstein and the Capitalist Conspiracy - Jewish Currents Podcast https://jewishcurrents.org/epstein-and-the-capitalist-conspiracy 

Something’s Rotten in the Norwegian Royal Family - Vanity Fair https://apple.news/A1A_GZVoYR1mIJeh5TYqXZQ 

Watch Jane about the Munich Conference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6SjrRsPpUQ&t=751s 

New law will 'criminalise lying' by senior ministers: https://x.com/skynews/status/2024746880656163082?s=46&t=Tbkgp9CYb-P2gQf2YVZ19g

Trump gathers members of Board of Peace for first meeting, with some U.S. allies wary – NPR  https://apple.news/AFjSdW9dCTu6SdN_niMDNHg

Who is at the Board of Peace Conference: https://x.com/mike_wagenheim/status/2024439124845895684?s=46&t=Tbkgp9CYb-P2gQf2YVZ19g 

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This is the second in our two-part series shining a light on Epstein survivors and their real-life stories. In this episode, Mark Lobel is joined by civil rights attorney Lisa Bloom, who represents many of Epstein’s victims. Bloom reveals how she has recently been approached by new potential clients in the wake of the recent release of yet more documents from the Epstein Files. She calls Epstein “one of the most prolific sexual predators the world has ever seen”. She discusses why the American Justice system has not helped the powerless achieve justice against the rich and powerful. She explains how this needs to be fixed.

As Mark and Lisa Order the Disorder, she outlines what justice would look like for the Epstein victims and how we as a world can improve how we acheive justice for victims of grooming and sexual abuse. Lisa proposes the concrete step of advocating for a blanket ban on the statute of limitations for sexual abuse.  

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

For more on Lisa and her work visit: https://thebloomfirm.com/lawyer/lisa-bloom/ 

READ: Chuck Schumer's Floor Remarks Introducing Virginia's Law To Help Provide Justice For Survivors Of Abuse

https://www.democrats.senate.gov/news/press-releases/leader-schumer-floor-remarks-introducing-virginias-law-to-help-provide-justice-for-survivors-of-abuse  

READ: Todd Blanche says review of Jeffrey Epstein sex-trafficking case ‘is over’

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/feb/01/epstein-files-todd-blanche-deputy-ag 

READ: Epstein files reference 'nine-year-old victim' in disturbing unredacted emails seen by lawmakers

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/unredacted-epstein-files-girl-9-mention-emails-b1270395.html 

The theatrical play 'Here There are Blueberries' discussed on the show:

https://www.stratfordeast.com/whats-on/all-shows/here-there-are-blueberries 

READ: Melinda French Gates References a 'Reckoning as a Society' over Bill Gates Epstein Claims

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/celebrity/articles/melinda-french-gates-references-reckoning-180726489.html 

You can get in touch with Mark, to host or speak at your event here: https://www.mark-lobel.com/getintouch 

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Hey Elon are you listening? And King Charles and former Prince Andrew, what about you? We want actions, not words. Order isn’t gonna magically appear, powerful people need to help bring it about. This episode has tips for how the most powerful could use their wealth and power to try to Order the Disorder.

 As the implications of the Epstein scandal grows ever larger and the whole affair presents terrifying perspectives from which to view our geopolitics over of the last two decades, we here at Disorder, would like to spend real time focusing on survivors, rather than just paying them lip service. Hence, we have two shows this week focusing on their stories.

In today’s episode, Mark Lobel talks to Asian-American artist Rina Oh about how she was groomed and drawn into Epstein’s network - and how he used grooming tactics to manipulate countless young women. She is writing a book in which she will soon ‘reveal all’ about the man she describes as a “raging paedophile”. Rina is incredibly brave to be speaking out and we applaud her and are honoured to be platforming her.

To finish the episode, as Mark and Rina Order the Disorder, Rina talks about what must happen next for justice to be done for hundreds of victims – specifically she describes how law enforcement should go after what’s left of his network. 

Donate to the fund for Carolyn Andriano’s memorial: https://www.gofundme.com/f/carolyn-andriano-memorial 

To immediately get part two of this series with Lisa Bloom – an attorney who represents several Epstein victims, join the Mega Orderers Club now: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ 

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Subscribe to Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

For more on Rina and her work visit: http://rinaohepsteinfiles.com

For more on the US Virgin Island Mental Health Fund, read: https://www.usvimentalhealthfund.com/

Read: Bondi’s Incompetence Is the Latest Insult for Epstein’s Victims: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/14/opinion/bondi-epstein-justice.html

Read: Musk Offers To Pay Defense Fees Of Anyone Who ‘Speaks The Truth’ About Epstein And Is Sued: https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2026/02/09/musk-offers-to-pay-defense-fees-of-anyone-who-speaks-the-truth-about-epstein-and-is-sued/

If you value this kind of content and want early release episodes, pls join the Mega Orderers Club: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ 

You can get in touch with Mark, to host or speak at your event here: https://www.mark-lobel.com/getintouch 

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As this show predicted at the end of 2025, Jeffrey Epstein has become the Disorderer-in-Chief of 2026 – with Keir Starmer’s credibility and ability to govern the latest victims of the document release. So how could there possibly be any Order emerging from this Disorder? It is only possible if McSweeney is ejected from Number 10. That is the only answer and the longer Starmer keeps him on, the weaker he will become relative to the Labour backbench.

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events (and the chance to ask your questions), visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ 

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

Pls Join the Mega Orderers Club for ad-free listening and early release of the episodes, via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

Watch Jason discuss “Do the Epstein files spell the end for Sir Keir Starmer?” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMgrUgOjGbk 

Statement from the Arms Control Association on New START and what the U.S. should do now: https://www.armscontrol.org/pressroom/2026-02/statement-end-new-start-requires-more-coherent-approach-trump-administration 

Global Women Leaders’ Voices report on women in multilateralism: https://www.gwlvoices.org/resources/wim-26 

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Hear real life stories about meeting the Pope, briefing the Prime Minister, and creating legislation to safeguard future generations!

As we settle in to 2026, it feels like we are stuck in a permanent state of Disorder:  Trump’s power grabs around the world, the timidity of Starmerism, and the lack of future-focused collective solutions to the world’s most pressing issues like AI regulation and climate. But… could another world be possible? Could something like mega-ordering spread throughout the world? If so, how do we get there?

This week, in association with the New Books Network, Jason is joined by Sir Geoff Mulgan. Sir Geoff is one of the world’s leading thinkers on social change, innovation, and the future of democracy. He’s the founder of Demos, former head of the UK Prime Minister’s Strategy Unit, and the founding CEO of Nesta, the UK’s innovation agency. His latest book, ‘Another World Is Possible: How to Reignite Social and Political Imagination’ (Hurst), is a sweeping and provocative examination of how we might redesign our political and economic systems to meet the crises of the 21st century — and why doing so is both necessary and achievable.

Jason and Geoff discuss why our leaders need to spend more time on long term thinking, and how ‘collective intelligence’ can help us address the world’s most pressing global challenges. They discuss how bland centrists like Starmer are actually quite unrealistic in their realism. Plus: why we must regain trust in experts, the need for more engineers and scientists in leadership positions, and the role religion could play in bringing about Mega Ordering. And as they Order the Disorder, Mulgan explains why a public ‘Right to Truth’ is key to saving democracy.

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ 

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

Get Geoff’s book, ‘Another World Is Possible: How to Reignite Social and Political Imagination’:

 https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/another-world-is-possible 

For more on our partnership with the New Books Network visit: https://newbooksnetwork.com/category/up-partners/disorder 

Read Geoff writing on future generations: https://tial.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/TIAL-Future-Generations-Mulgan-Bennett.docx.pdf 

His pitch for rights to truth: https://www.geoffmulgan.com/blog/blog-post-title-two-p722w 

Follow Geoff’s substack: https://geoffmulgan.substack.com/publish/posts/published

Listen to George Monbiot on Disorder: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/ZjU5MmVjOTYtZmFhZC0xMWVmLWFiZWUtODNlZjQ0YWYwZTgz  

How Marco Rubio Went from “Little Marco” to Trump’s Foreign-Policy Enabler: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/01/19/marco-rubio-profile 

Pls Join the Mega Orderers Club for ad-free listening and early release of the episodes, via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

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It’s telling to hear NATO’s future is not “guaranteed” according to a former NATO boss. After a jaw-dropping US threat to take Greenland shocked the world. President Trump’s first year back in power is also overshadowing the United Nations' 80th milestone. Prompting calls to retool the world’s top diplomat. 

In this episode of Disorder, hosted by Mark Lobel, the former head of NATO tells Disorder we should make the United Nations Secretary-General the "chairman" of the Security Council. Brazil’s former Ambassador to the United Nations says the role should be a single mandate term of six or seven years, "to retain the willingness to displease certain sources of power”.

Recorded at a special UNA-UK event, George Robertson and Ambassador Antonio Patriota reveal how Donald Trump’s disorderly approach is causing a major re-think of organisations and leadership in the world. Speaking in the same building that ushered in the United Nations General Assembly in 1946, exactly 80 years ago this month. 

The Brazilian Ambassador to the UK didn't hold back ... 

On Venezuela: 

“I feel very uncomfortable as a South American to witness an intervention that is a flagrant violation of international law.” 

On Nigel Farage joining climate talks: 

“I don’t think (he's) very eager to engage on this topic” 

On presenting the Nobel Peace Prize to Trump: 

“As a South American, I felt embarrassed by this gesture, because I don’t think it enhances anybody’s dignity to do that.” 

Plus - George Robertson tips a British politician as the next big thing ... and it’s not who you expect!

Stay news of a special live event with Disorder and the UNA-UK for mega orderers, and to join our Mega Orderers Club and come along, and get ad-free listening, early release episodes, and bonus content, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ 

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

You can get in touch with Mark, to host or speak at your event here: ⁠https://www.mark-lobel.com/getintouch⁠ 

To join our Mega Orderers Club in honour of Greg, for ad free listening and early release episodes, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

UNA UK website www.una.org.uk

UN official article summarising the event - https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/01/1166783

Gordon Brown’s call to action for democracies to reinvigorate the international order, highlighting the Attorney General’s speech at the event - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jan/20/donald-trump-greenland-world-plan-leadership

Devex video interviews on Insta - https://news.un.org/en/story/2026/01/1166783

Sky News - 'Is the US attacking the UN's principles?' (Interview with the President of the General Assembly) https://news.sky.com/video/is-the-us-attacking-the-uns-principles-13495782 

The Guardian - 'Guterres warns of ‘powerful forces’ undermining ‘global cooperation.’’ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/17/antonio-guterres-warns-forces-undermining-global-cooperation-un-80th-anniversary-secretary-general-multilateralism-international-law 

NPR - 'United Nations leaders bemoan global turmoil as the General Assembly turns 80.’ https://www.npr.org/2026/01/18/nx-s1-5678366/united-nations-general-assembly-80-london#:~:text=LONDON — Just over 80 years,the importance of international cooperation. 

Full speech by SG: https://webtv.un.org/en/asset/k1u/k1uo45t198

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This episode is dedicated to Disorder’s only ‘Founding Sponsor’, Greg Merriman, who passed away from Pancreatic Cancer last week. He was a software entrepreneur, a wine lover, and an American-Anglophile. To Jason’s mind he was a classic example of that old time Midwestern decency, which the world is sorely lacking these days. He was a true Mega Orderer and will be sorely missed.

This week, Jane and Jason analyse the endgame scenerios of Trump’s sabre rattling over Greenland and what the protests in Iran might lead to. They sketch opportunities for how the Europeans could step up and lead at this moment – if only they chose to. And as they Order the Disorder, Jane discusses Donald Trump's disregard for international law and how we could try to make International Law Great Again.

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad-free listening, like the true Mega Orderer Greg Merriman, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ 

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

To join our Mega Orderers Club in honour of Greg, for ad free listening and early release episodes, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

How Marco Rubio Went from “Little Marco” to Trump’s Foreign-Policy Enabler: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/01/19/marco-rubio-profile 

For More on Greenland: https://x.com/ilvestoomas/status/2011593795373318648?s=46&t=Tbkgp9CYb-P2gQf2YVZ19g 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/01/trump-greenland-risk-global-conflict/685616/ 

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To kick off the year, Disorder held our final live podcast recording at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), as part of our one-year partnership with the think tank. Hear Jason Pack in discussion with Disorder co-host Jane Kinninmont, RUSI Associate Fellow Arthur Snell, and Jonathan Eyal, Associate Director at RUSI. They discussed the rather disordering implications of Trump’s actions in Venezuela, whether it might embolden China and Russia to behave the same way in their ‘spheres of influence’, and whether Britain can continue to play a Mega Ordering convening role, as geopolitics are potentially realigning into a ‘might-makes-right’ and ‘spheres of influences’ phase.

To join our Mega Orderers Club, to get a full recording of the event including live listener questions, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ 

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

To join our Mega Orderers Club, to get a full recording of the event including live listener questions, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

Join Jane at her event, UNGA at 80: From 1946 to Our Future https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/unga-at-80-from-1946-to-our-future-tickets-1975305412663?aff=oddtdtcreator

For more on RUSI: https://www.rusi.org/ 

And Jonathan Eyal’s great work: https://www.rusi.org/people/eyal 

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Smartphones have revolutionised warfare, and we are still learning exactly the implications of this. The extent of our full spectrum dependence on Wi-Fi and the internet is profound. Military organisations routinely rely on civilian infrastructure to operate digitally. Now, with AI accelerating the pace of change in tactics, strategy, and targets even further, what does that mean for war? And how civilians participate in it? And what nodes of connectivity can become enemy targets?

To find out, Jason is joined this week by Matthew Ford, author of ‘War in the Smartphone Age: Conflict, Connectivity and the Crises at Our Fingertips’. Brought to you in partnership with the New Books Network, this episodes focuses on how technology, particularly smartphones and digital communication, has transformed military strategies and civilian involvement in conflicts. Jason and Matthew explore the topic looking at the case studies of: Hamas; the ongoing war in Ukraine; vulnerabilities in Britain and the West more generally; and the role of civilians in modern warfare. 

And as they Order the Disorder, they return to the oft-cited need for better information resilience and media literacy.

To join our Mega Orderers Club, and get ad free listening, early episode releases, bonus content and exclusive access to live events, visit https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/ 

Producer: George McDonagh

Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/

Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow

Show Notes Links:

Pls Join the Mega Orderers Club for ad-free listening and early release of the episodes, via this link: https://disorder.supportingcast.fm/

Join us at our live event in RUSI on January 8th: for details on the event https://my.rusi.org/events/disorder-podcast-live-what-disorder-will-2026-bring.html 

Yet to attend the event you need to join the Mega-Orderer’s Club or the Pay For substack and RSVP through a special form available on either platform: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/p/disorder-podcast-live-with-jane-arthur 

Get Matthew’s book https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/war-in-the-smartphone-age/ 

For more on our partnership with the New Books Network visit: https://newbooksnetwork.com/category/up-partners/disorder

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