Since 1984, American historian and professor Allan Lichtman has correctly predicted nine of the last 10 presidential races. Lichtman, however, does not use polling data. Instead, he has developed a set of 13 metrics — or, as he calls them, keys.

Lichtman appeared on the podcast in February to discuss his elaborate forecasting system, and he promised he’d return after he announced his pick for president. Now, Lichtman joined Errol to discuss why he believes Kamala Harris will be victorious in November. The pair also discussed the possibility of an October surprise, how past predictions have made him unpopular, and why it is governing, not campaigning, that ultimately matters.

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