With Trump's criminal conviction, the chaos and division of American politics seems set to increase. But this is about much more than what happened in a New York courtroom, with roots in American history, its political structures and the rise of certain ideological movements. I spoke to American political scientist Jonathan Terra about the backdrop to the current events.

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@snellarthur.bsky.social. You can sometimes find me on other podcasts - most often Disorder which I am involved with in partnership with RUSI, the Royal United Services Institute, the world's oldest think tank.

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