Susie Bright, all pink like ruby grapefruit!

Susie Bright, prolific author, editor, and sex-positive feminist pioneer, is on And The Next Thing You Know podcast!

Susie and I got together to talk about our evolving relationships with alcohol. For a lot of us, the social isolation of the pandemic shifted our drinking habits. This was true for me, as well as for Susie and her partner Jon.

My conversation with Susie about booze comes from a harm reduction perspective. Let’s be honest about how people choose to live and celebrate joy, and minimize the harm. In the era of early HIV/AIDS, Susie contributed to a more transparent cultural dialogue celebrating sex and sexuality, and helped us take the shame out of it. That’s how it’s done.

Susie Bright’s list of credits and accomplishments is vast! She was the editor of On Our Backs magazine from 1984 to 1991, author of Susie Sexpert’s Lesbian Sex World, author and editor of scores of other books and erotica collections, and one of Hollywood’s first intimacy coordinators—before it was even a thing—on the set of Lana and Lily Wachowski’s film Bound. She continues to share her prolific work with the world as a film and culture critic, expert teacher of writing and publishing, and audio producer who brought Allison Bechtel’s groundbreaking Dykes To Watch Out For comics to life for Audible last year.

Find Susie Bright at her blog
https://susiebright.ink

Me and a bespoke stack o’ books for Susie

Tristan Taormino’s Opening Up, Vito Russo’s The Celluloid Closet, Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk by Legs McNeil and Gillian McCain

Susie’s commentary on queer self-hatred in The Children’s Hour from the 1995 documentary The Celluloid Closet, based on Vito Russo’s book. (YouTube link)

Radical Desire: Making On Our Backs Magazine at the Cornell University archive

Susie Bright’s books at Bookshop Santa Cruz 

Susie Bright on the director’s commentary for Lana and Lily Wachowski’s film Bound (1996) (YouTube link)
[*Note – the commentary on Bound was before Lana and Lily both publicly identified as trans, so they’re using their former names here.]

Alison Bechdel’s Dykes To Watch Out For review in the Advocate
“Bechdel said the project was the brainchild of Audible’s editor-at-large Susie Bright.”

Honey Lee Cottrell – Susie’s ex-partner, contributing photographer (and first centerfold!) On Our Backs magazine

Clip from Little Miss Sunshine (2006) directed by Jonathan Dayton and Valerie Faris, written by Michael Arndt, used for education and commentary only.

Sackler and Purdue Pharma lawsuit update from December, 2023

FACT CHECK: Did Snoop Dogg really quit smoking cannabis?

According to USA Today, this was a “humorous marketing ploy” to promote his smokeless campfire pit product. We talked about Snoop Dogg making a harm reduction move with cannabis here, but it seems like that wasn’t the case. Sorry for the factual error in the episode.

The Wall Street Journal interview with Black food historian and journalist Toni Tipton-Martin. Find Toni’s new book Juke Joints, Jazz Clubs, and Juice: Cocktails from Two Centuries of African American Cookbooks at Toni Tipton-Martin dot Com.

The Pendennis Club bartender in Louisville who made a cocktail for Muhammad Ali was Tom Bullock. His influential book, The Ideal Bartender, was published in 1917.

The doomed legacy of Nancy Reagan’s Just Say No campaign

A special thanks goes out to Ryan Masters for introducing Susie and me. Check out Ryan’s excellent band, Smoke Chaser. They play a lush blend of indie psychedelia, super fun. Smoke Chaser’s album Alazapul is now out on Heroic Dose Records.

The list of resources for drug and alcohol support here includes traditional 12-step programs as well as harm reduction organizations.

Al-Anon (and Al-Ateen) – the 12-step program for family members and loved ones of people with alcohol and substance use issues who want support in those relationships

The Gottman Institute’s page on codependency

AA – Alcoholics Anonymous, the 12-step program for people with alcohol use and addiction issues

Harm Reduction model of working with drug and alcohol use from an evidence-based perspective

Harm Reduction Therapy Center – San Francisco Bay Area

Some of my favorite And The Next Thing You Know episodes about alcohol, drugs, harm reduction, and sobriety are The Real Drug Was Checking Out, All At Once, All At Once, and A Cruisible of Sorts with Amelia Ray.

The Surly Temple – a fantastic name for the classic low-alcohol drink, a bitters and soda. I first heard this moniker from my friend, San Francisco visual artist Heather Robinson. She doesn’t claim to have coined the term. Online, there are a lot of recipes for such a drink that more closely mimic the non-alcoholic Shirley Temple. But here’s how I do it:

Basic Surly Temple:
Rocks
Dash of your favorite bitters (I prefer the classic Angostura, but you can use Peychaud’s or any fancier bitters you like)
Top with club soda
Serve it all butch-style in a lowball glass, arrrgh!

Fancy Surly:
Muddle fresh mint and lime juice in your glass
Top with rocks, a dash of bitters, and club soda

NOTE on the alcohol content in bitters: A dash or two of Angostura bitters will deliver about a .5% alcohol content to a full sized beverage with no other alcohol in it. That’s about the legal limit to call a beverage “non-alcoholic.”

But that doesn’t mean you should feel any particular way about it as a sober person, or someone working on reducing the harm of alcohol in your life. If you want to maintain sobriety with zero alcohol, then bitters should be avoided. This article by cocktail professional Camper English has a sensitive discussion of the matter of bitters in an otherwise non-alcoholic beverage, and breaks down the math of the alcohol content.

For a zero-alcohol version of the Surly, try Wilderton Bittersweet Aperitivo instead of traditional bitters. (Wilderton is not a sponsor of the show, just a shout-out for an elegantly packaged, delightful non-alcoholic alternative to bitters or alcohol-based amaros.)

Susie’s eggnog recipe – make a batch without alcohol, and then, if you imbibe, you can add her recommended rum, cognac, brandy combination.

The Palm Beach Special
2 ½  oz Gin
¾ oz Grapefruit juice
½ oz Sweet vermouth
Serve on the rocks

A deeply felt thanks to all my beautiful patrons for helping me create this podcast. Your support and enthusiasm for the show keep my head in the game. Thank you.

A very hearty thanks to my Failure and Redemption level patrons, Heather, Kristina, Amy, Lisa, Kurt, Marck, Noah, Barry, Eidell, Bonita, and Jeannie, and to my Serendipity level patrons, Jodi, Brittany, Jen, Steve and Cyndi, Kristi, Dorian, and Micharelle

If you’d like to help me make this tender, silly, sometimes kinda profound podcast, here’s a quick checklist of things you can do:

Word of mouth is super meaningful. It helps people find the show, and I love seeing what you write about it. It makes me so happy that the podcast touches you. I appreciate you all so dang much.

Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com
where you’ll find complete transcripts and detailed show notes for every episode, all the social links and subscribe buttons, and the archive of every episode.

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Join the discussion
facebook dot com/nextthingpod
Instagram dot com/soozenextthing

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at nextthingpod at gmail dot com – we might use it in a future episode!

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.
The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz.

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.

The transcript for the new introduction is here.

My niece Jenessa Schwartz died on November 1, 2023, after living with a stage 4 colon cancer diagnosis since March, 2017. She was 41 years old.

This is a rebroadcast of our podcast conversation from 2019, with an updated introduction.

We talked in detail about the early days of her diagnosis, many of the various treatments she endured, and the effects of surgery and chemo on her spirits. We also talked about what it was like to discuss her cancer with her young kids, and how she embraced a new relationship amid this major transition in her life.

If you have any GI symptoms you’re suspicious about, at any age, talk to your doctor about getting a colonoscopy. And if you’re 45 or older, even with no symptoms, it’s time to schedule your first screening colonoscopy. If you detect colon cancer early, it’s very treatable. Get on that.

If you’d like to learn more about Jenessa Schwartz, please read her truly wonderful blogs:

My Colon Cancer: Semicolon, Not Full Stop
about her experience as a stage 4 cancer thriver

and Womb For Hire  about becoming a gestational surrogate to two beautiful kids.

There is also a lovely obituary written by Leslie Katz for J. The Jewish News of Northern California.

We love you, Ness.

is the host and producer of And The Next Thing You Know. She's a podcaster, writer, content marketer, and ever-aspiring creative noodler.

Photo by Lindsay Gauthier, courtesy of Shawna Virago

This is my conversation with Shawna Virago. Shawna is an indie punk/roots/folk musician and singer-songwriter, and the Artistic Director of the San Francisco Transgender Film Festival.

In this episode, we talk about coming up in the eclectic L.A. music scene in the 70s and 80s, seeing artists like Screamin’ Jay Hawkins, Bo Diddley, and gay punk rocker Tom Robinson live, and what it was like gigging at frat parties while trans.

Photo by Lydia Daniller, courtesy of Shawna Virago

We also talk about Shawna’s move to San Francisco, and Shawna’s surprising and nourishing meet-cute with longtime partner, the choreographer and Fresh Meat Productions Artistic Director, Sean Dorsey. Since the 1990s, Shawna and Sean have done some heavy lifting in the queer and trans communities in the San Francisco Bay Area and beyond to create vibrant trans visibility, community, and culture.

Read a lovely piece about Shawna and Sean in the Advocate.

Musical interludes in this episode are from Shawna Virago’s “Eternity Street,” used with permission. Find Shawna at shawnavirago.com and support Shawna on Bandcamp.

I made a playlist to accompany this episode! It’s got original songs from Shawna, along with a bunch of the artists we talk about in the episode, including Bo Diddley, the Chiffons, X, Bowie, T. Rex, Amanda Lear, Jayne County, and many more!

The Spotify Playlist Is Here

CUAV – Community United Against Violence – founded in 1979, and still going strong, building LGBTQ power to dismantle interpersonal and institutional violence.

The White Night Riots – a good primer at the World Queerstory blog. Queers fight back after Dan White gets a slap on the wrist for murdering SF Supervisor Harvey Milk and Mayor George Moscone in 1978.

Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera: Amazing archival recordings with these two trans activists of color in New York. Johnson was a Stonewall veteran, and together, they founded STAR, Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries, providing housing to houseless trans girls and women. These recordings are from 1970.

Leslie Feinberg and the legacy of Stone Butch Blues

ETVC – The Emergency Transvestite Channel history at the amazing Louise Lawrence Transgender Archive

The GLBT Historical Society

The Mattachine Society and Daughters of Bilitis archival photos at the NYC LGBT Historic Sites Project

Jordy Jones in the GLBT Historical Society archive – Jordy was the curator of the fateful Trans Art show in 2001, where Shawna met Sean for the first time. <3 

Charlie Jane Anders, Lambda Literary, Nebula, and Hugo award-winning author, podcaster, and creator of the legendary San Francisco literary night, Writers With Drinks

Compton’s Cafeteria Riot in 1966 – a video talk by Susan Stryker on resistance to police violence and carceral power, curated by the Tenderloin Museum in San Francisco

An intro to the Stonewall Riots at the Library of Congress

Shawna and I discussed the need to take care of LGBTQIA elders and veterans of Stonewall and Compton’s, and the organization I keep getting pointed to is SAGE: the National Resource Center on LGBTQ+ Aging. Let me know if you are connected to other good resources, and I’ll link them here!

Felicia Flames Elizondo

Kate Bornstein – the author of the influential 1995 book about trans identities, Gender Outlaw: on men, women, and the rest of us

Judith Butler’s work at UC Berkeley

Michel Foucault’s The Order of Things

Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, David Bowie, T. Rex, New York Dolls, Screamin’ Jay Hawkins, Bo Diddley, Johnny Cash, The Supremes, Eddie Cochran, Mike Ness/Social Distortion, Question Mark and the Mysterians, The Chiffons, Martha and the Vandellas, The Ramones, The Seeds – Can’t Seem to Make You Mine from 1965, and, as an aside, Alex Chilton’s great cover, Count Five – Psychotic Reaction from 1966, Tom Robinson, Buzzcocks, Justin Vivian Bond – Kiki & Herb.

Get a taste for these artists and then some at the Spotify playlist for this episode!

Creem and Circus rock magazines

Christine Jorgensen at the New York Historical Society

Amanda Lear – In Salvador Dali’s circle, and Roxy Music cover model

Romy Haag – performer, club proprietor, intimate partner of David Bowie (content correction: Haag isn’t German. She’s Dutch)

Candy Darling profile at TransasCity dot Org

Holly Woodlawn – NYT Obituary from 2015

Terry Toy Warhol’s “girl of the year” with artist Keith Haring

Jackie Curtis at Wikipedia

Carol Burnett – Shawna mentioned she’s a big influence for Sean!

A critical Vice article on Lou Reed’s relationship with his trans partner, Rachel Humphreys by journalist Harron Walker 

A Dangerous Minds article from 2013 about Rachel and Lou, overall less critical, but respectful about Rachel’s gender, with lots of photos. Two content warnings: 1. The article refers to a particularly awful, racist, transphobic commentary by Lester Bangs about Rachel. 2. The comment thread became a noteworthy document, because some people who directly knew Rachel and Lou chimed in on the discussion, but there is a lot of outdated terminology for trans peoples’ lives being used. Some of it appropriately reflects the time that’s being talked about in the mid-70s, but there is also some antagonistic misgendering in the comments.

American Graffiti, Happy Days, Grease, Sha Na Na

“The Bakersfield Sound” and the Birth of Country Rock – article by Tim Moore on Medium

Slam Dancing, Pogo, Mosh

Kenneth Anger’s 1963 film Scorpio Rising

Different Fur Studios – where Shawna records, has had an impressive roster, including Stevie Wonder and Herbie Hancock

Last Exit to Brooklyn by Hubert Selby Jr.

Our Lady of the Flowers by Jean Genet

Moby-Dick at the Big Read podcast: an example Shawna gave of old timey culture that shouldn’t be compulsory. But if you’re curious…I very much recommend this audio podcast presentation of the novel, in which each chapter is read by a noteworthy narrator, including Tilda Swinton, Sir David Attenborough, John Waters, Mary Oliver, and about a hundred more.

Silas Howard’s short film from 2015 about Bambi Lake, Sticks and Stones

Jayne County’s music legacy and visual art in the Brooklyn Rail, 2018

Derek Jarman’s 1978 film Jubilee

The Starwood in Hollywood

The Queen Mary bar in Studio City

The Motherlode bar page at Louise Lawrence Transgender Archive

Foxy Lady on Mission Street – 2012 Mission Local article on the store closing

Thanks so much to all my patrons for the support you give me at any level. You’re doing it! You help make this show happen, and I appreciate you so much! And, as always, a particular shout out goes out to my Failure and Redemption level patrons: Amy, Barry, Bonnie, Eidell, Heather, Jeannie, Kristina, Kurt, Lisa, Marck, and Noah, and to my Serendipity level patrons: Brittany, Cyndi and Steve, Dorian, Jen, Jodi, Kristi, and Micharelle. Thank you extra special much for your generous support.

You, too, can become a patron of the show at patreon.com/nextthingpod. Patrons now get billed only when I release an episode, so you won’t even get billed monthly! Set it and forget it, and I’ll give you a heads-up before you get charged. This is a one-person operation, and it’s made better with your support. Thank you.

Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com
where you’ll find complete transcripts and detailed show notes for every episode, all the social links and subscribe buttons, and the archive of every episode.

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Join the discussion
facebook dot com/nextthingpod
Instagram dot com/soozenextthing

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at
nextthingpod at gmail dot com – we might use it in a future episode!

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.
The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz. 

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.

In this episode of And The Next Thing You Know, I talk with the creator and host of the podcast Geology Bites, Oliver Strimpel.

If you’re curious about what drives plate tectonics, or about the composition of rocks and the amazing amount of information they contain about Earth’s prehistoric climates, if you’ve ever wondered what shapes a mountain ridge, or a  canyon, Geology Bites is a podcast for the geoscience informed and the just curious alike!

In the episode, we talk about the path Oliver has taken from his childhood in India, marveling in the Himalayas, to his PhD work in astrophysics studying galaxy clusters.

Oliver then worked at the Science Museum in London, and parlayed that work to his move to the United States in the 1980s to direct the Computer Museum in Boston. Oliver’s career path then took a sharp turn to patent law, and we talk about how the language of patents is kind of like poetry, and helps with podcast editing, as it turns out. Through it all, Oliver is driven by genuine curiosity and joy in learning about how the cosmos works, and the ingenuity humans use to understand it.

Find Oliver’s podcast Geology Bites at geologybites.com or in your podcast app.

A note on the timing of this episode and some corrections: At the beginning of the episode, Oliver says he started his podcast “last July” and that really means July of 2020, because it was already July of 2021 when we sat down together to talk. Later on, Oliver mentions that he’s about to publish episode number 37, which was his conversation with guest, Steve D’Hondt, about 100-million-year-old bacterial colonies living in the abyssal clay at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.

That episode of Geology Bites was also posted back in July of 2021. Geology Bites is soon to break 60 episodes. I am posting this episode of And The Next Thing You Know several months after Oliver and I sat down to talk, so the time registry between our conversation and this episode are out of sync. My apologies for the continuity confusion.

One more correction, also at the beginning of the episode, Oliver guesses that Nanga Parbat is about the “fifth or sixth” highest peak in the world; it is in fact, the ninth highest peak.

Geology Bites podcast
Zoe Strimpel’s podcast Hyped!

Mike Searle on Geology Bites
Oliver’s first guest, mentioned in the episode. Mike Searle was also featured in the 50th episode of Geology Bites in December, 2021.

Kullu Valley in India

Nanga Parbat – the 9th highest mountain on Earth at more than 8,100 m/26,600 ft

The Science Museum, London

Dan McKenzie on Geology Bites (Oliver mentions this episode and Dan’s experiments with rocks on Venus.)

A wonderfully quaint 1990 educational video about how computers work, featuring the Walk-Through Computer at the Computer Museum in Boston.

NASA’s Jet Propulsion Lab – a dazzling collection of information about scores of missions to every planet in the solar system.

The Mariner Mission

The Smart Machines exhibit about robotics and Artificial Intelligence (this link opens a PDF newsletter from The Computer Museum archive.)

Illustrator David Macaulay

Poets Oliver mentioned

Seamus Heaney

Philip Larkin

Ted Hughes

Geology Bites episode with Steve D’Hondt on ancient bacterial colonies

Geology Bites episode with Katie Stack Morgan on the Mars Rover and the geology of Mars

Jezero Crater on Mars

The Drake Equation

The search for life on…

Enceladus
Europa and
Titan

Donna Haraway

A rock solid thank you to (ahem) all my patrons for making this show better, whether you’re are giving me a dollar a month or $100 a month, thank you for your support! And, as always, a very special shout out to my Failure and Redemption level patrons: Amy, Barry, Bonnie, Eidell, Elyse, Heather, Jeannie, Jen, Kristina, Kurt, Lisa, Liz, Marck, Melissa, and Noah, and to my Serendipity level patrons: Brittany, Dorian, Jodi, Kristi, Laurie, Micharelle and Steve and Cyndi, thank you for making your mark on this podcast, and my heart.

Become a patron to support the podcast and get some bonus content!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com
where you’ll find complete transcripts and detailed show notes for every episode, all the social links and subscribe buttons, and the archive of every episode. Maybe someday, we’ll even have some fun fan schwag for ya here!

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Join the discussion
facebook dot com/nextthingpod
Instagram dot com/soozenextthing
Twitter dot com/soozenextthing

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at
nextthingpod at gmail dot com – we might use it in a future episode!

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.
The theme and interstitial music is by Jon Schwartz. 

Early childhood educator and photographer Kati Douglas and I talk about her career in the education field and what her first few years in leadership were like. We talk about what it’s like to deal with white supremacy as a biracial Black mom of Black kids with a Black partner. We also talk about how her struggle with postpartum depression catalyzed a radical career path change, and how she puts equity and justice at the center of all her work.

You can find Kati’s absolutely gorgeous photography at
xilophotography.com and @xilophotography on instagram.

Early childhood education, leadership in education,  San Francisco, Oakland, post-partum depression, self-care, mental health, parenting, photography, career path, career transitions, relationships, Black Lives Matter, institutional oppression in education, Black experience in parenting, making art, grief.

The wonderful Buen Dia Family School, serving preschoolers in the Mission in San Francisco. 

Kati’s principal at Flynn Elementary in San Francisco was Dr. Karling Aguilera-Fort, now a superintendent of schools in Southern California.

We talk in the episode about the acquittal of Treyvon Martin’s murderer, and about the murder of George Floyd, and the Black Lives Matter movement. Learn BLM herstory here.

Thank you to ALL my patrons for making this podcast happen, and for making it better! And a special shout out, as always, to my Failure and Redemption level patrons: Noah, Melissa, Marck, Lisa, Kurt, Kristina, Jen, Jeannie, Heather, Elyse, Liz, Eidell, Bonnie, Barry, and Amy, and to my Serendipity level patrons: Steve and Cyndi, Micharelle, Laurie, Kristi, Dorian, Brittany and Jodi.

You, too, can become a patron of the show at patreon.com/nextthingpod. Patrons now get billed only when I release an episode, so you won’t even get billed monthly! Set it and forget it, and I’ll give you a heads-up before you get charged. This is a one-person operation, and it’s made better with your support. Thank you.

Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com
where you’ll find complete transcripts and detailed show notes for every episode, all the social links and subscribe buttons, and the archive of every episode. Stay tuned for some fun podcast schwag coming soon…

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Join the discussion
facebook/nextthingpod
Instagram/soozenextthing
bluesky/soozenextthing.bsky.soc

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at nextthingpod at gmail dot com – we might use it in a future episode!

“Zip dot Wav” sound effect in this episode by jackjames_tomknevitt, used under a CC BY 3.0 license, via freesound.org.

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.
The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz. 

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.

Photo of Dana Morrigan by Tristan Crane, from their series Here Portraits.

Today, I talk with Dana Morrigan, wonderful human, wry wit, queer nonbinary transfeminine spoken word artist, writer, performer, and epic karaoke host! It’s about her quest for self-knowledge across many parts of her life: in her cultural affiliations, in her work, in her relationships, in her gender and sexuality, in finding her creative callings. And the through-line is really that the process of finding ourselves is lifelong, and, if you’re doing it right, you can help other people find themselves, too.

We talked about: growing up in the Catskills of the ‘60s and ‘70s; identifying with cultural outlaws like Tiny Tim and Harpo Marx, and identifying with genderfluid and sexually free hippie culture; we talked comedy and improv; performance; writing, both creatively and professionally; copywriting; the demands of academia; heteronormative relationship expectations; gender and sexual discovery; finding the language to better understand oneself; the lifelong project of integrating one’s sense of self and belonging; finding and creating community; queer and trans performance; queer open mic; karaoke…and so many other things!

Keep up with Dana’s karaoke, spoken word, and other creative projects on her social channels! 

Karaoke With Dana on Facebook
@KaraokeWithDana on Instagram and
@KaraokeWithDana on Twitter

One of the main open mic events Dana performed at was The SF Queer Open Mic. They no longer hold events, but you can still find the community and archive online.

Dana also participated in the Fresh Meat Festival of Trans and Queer Performance.

In this episode, we talked about a ton of cultural influences that touched Dana’s life, including:
Henny Youngman, Tiny Tim, Melville’s Bartleby, The Scrivener, Bob and Ray radio shows
Glen Campbell performing “Rhinestone Cowboy”
Johnny Cash performing “A Boy Named Sue,” written by the great Shel Silverstein
Walter Sobchak doesn’t roll on Shabbos

El Rio in San Francisco

At the very end of the episode, I referenced “Rogerian,” therapy, referring to psychologist Carl Rogers’ psychotherapeutic approach, which informed non-directive play therapy. This was when Dana and I were talking about the therapeutic effects for queer and trans folks being in karaoke community. The history of this modality, though, preceded Rogers and was expanded later by Virginia Axline. Here’s a brief history of the modality.

TRG Banks – excerpt from “Evening Journey,” used under a CC0 1.0 public domain license. 
Find TRG Banks at Bandcamp.

Anthem of Rain – excerpt from “Adaptation,” used under a CC BY 4.0 license.
Find Anthem of Rain at the Free Music Archive.

Tintamare – excerpt from “Propane,” used under a CC BY-SA 4.0 license.
Find Tintamare at Bandcamp.

Sound effects by
jackjames_tomknevItt – Zip dot Wav, used under a CC BY 3.0 license.
Find jackjames_tomknevItt on FreeSound.

Thank you to ALL my patrons for making this podcast happen, and for making it better! A special shout out to all my Failure & Redemption level patrons: Lisa, Marck, Kurt, Bonita, Barry, Amy, Heather, Noah, Jeannie, and Jen, AND, to my Serendipity level patrons: Dorian, Brittany, Steve & Cyndi, Micharelle, Jodi, and Kristi!

Find all the episodes, full episode transcripts, social media links, and extries at 
nextthingpodcast.com

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon.com/nextthingpod

Email us with your thoughts or questions or just to say hi! And send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story by recording a voice memo on your phone, and sending it to 
nextthingpod at gmail dot com

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.

The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz.

Kurt Granzow came into himself as a gay man at the same time that he found support as a conservative Christian in a Lutheran community in the San Francisco Bay Area in the early ’90s. What came next was a decade of communion and pursuit of ministry within the church, all the while denying his own need to express his true sexuality and capacities for an authentic kind of personal, queer love in his life. This included a heterosexual marriage and divorce, an inner reconciliation of the pain in himself and the pain he caused others, and a project moving forward of personal accountability and operating, literally, in good faith.

He’s spent the last two decades finding queer and spiritual community outside the church, and is now also known as Sister Krissy Fiction of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, an international order of queer nuns “promelgating universal joy and expiating stigmatic guilt!”

Coming out as gay in the early ’90s; coming out as a conservative Christian; conservative Lutheranism and conservative Christian theology; the so-called “ex-gay” movement; LGBTQ parents; pressure in the church toward heterosexual marriage; missionary travel; being closeted; September 11; Portland, Oregon; exploring liberal Christianity, paganism, and neo-paganism; the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence; gay and trans Pride; examining and leveraging white cis privilege to work against oppression of people of color and trans folks. 

Why Morrissey is a dick

A good summary from Forbes about how J.K. Rowling confirmed her commitment to trans exclusion

Crystal Frasier on Twitter

The downfall of Exodus International, and the “ex-gay” movement

The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence

A history of the Radical Faeries by one of the co-founders, Don Kilhefner

The Trevor Project resources for LGBTQIAA youth and adult allies

For historicity’s sake, The LGBT group in 1990-1992 at De Anza College in Cupertino, California, was called GALA (Gay and Lesbian Alliance) and then changed to LGBA (Lesbian Gay Bisexual Alliance, pronounced “Ligba”) during the time Kurt and I attended.

Then when I was at UC Santa Cruz in 1992-1994, the LGBTQ group was called GLBN (Gay Lesbian Bisexual Network, pronounced “Galben.”) I got these mixed up in the episode, and then remembered this detail after we recorded!

Musical interludes in this episode are by Adam Selzer. Music Licensing by needledrop.co. We used excerpts from his songs “Toy Piano Trader,” “Strings and Blips,” and “Ghost Waltz.” Find more from Adam at adamselzerworks.com.

A hearty thank you to all my lovely Patrons for making this episode happen! Special shouts out to my Failure & Redemption level Patrons: Noah, Jen, Jeannie, Heather, Bonnie, Barry, and Amy, and to my Serendipity level Patrons: Emily, Dorian, and Brittany! Thank you for believing in me, believing in this podcast, and helping me get these conversations out there! 

Our official HQ, where you will find links to all the episodes, full transcripts, and all the ways to support us and join the conversation on social media: 
nextthingpodcast.com

Send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story by recording a voice memo on your phone and emailing it to:
nextthingpod at gmail dot com.

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon.com/nextthingpod

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.

The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz.

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.

When I pitched my guest, Shawn, about coming onto the show, my original idea was just talking to her about her career change from being a lawyer to becoming a psychotherapist. She counter-pitched me a story that I couldn’t resist. She said, and I’m paraphrasing, “Let me tell you about that time I drank from a lucky fountain.” And from here our story departs. 

This conversation is about several consequential events in Shawn’s life. The subjects are emotionally heavy, but there is so much joy and levity and emotional wisdom that Shawn brings to her story. This conversation just glows.

Psychology, therapy, mental health, spirituality, travel, family, queer families, marriage, relationships, breakups, parenting, pregnancy, abortion, grief, adoption, adoptee experience, career path, queer, lgbt, lgbtqqia, Bay Area, Hawaii, Spain.

The fountain at Covadonga

Shawn’s Your Fellow Traveler page

Psychology and spiritual frameworks referenced in the episode: 

Attachment theory
Cognitive behavioral therapy
Psychodynamic approach
Wilhelm Reich/Reichian psychotherapy
Core shamanism
Diamond Approach
Judith Blackstone

Thanks so much to all my patrons for the support you give me at any level. You’re doing it! You help make this show happen, and I appreciate you so much! And, as always, a particular shout out goes out to my Failure & Redemption level patrons: Bonita, Barry, Liz, Jen, Melissa, Noah, Elyse, Amy, Jeannie, and Heather, and my Serendipity level patrons: Dorian, Emily and Brittany.

Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com
where you’ll find complete transcripts and detailed show notes for every episode, all the social links and subscribe buttons, and the archive of every episode.

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Join the discussion
facebook dot com/nextthingpod
Instagram dot com/soozenextthing

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at
nextthingpod at gmail dot com – we might use it in a future episode!

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.
The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz. 

*On “cruisible,” I was oblivious to this pun when I said it in the episode!

Today’s episode marks the one-year anniversary of the podcast! I posted the very first episode in September, 2019, way back in the Before Times. I feel really proud of And The Next Thing You Know, and I’m so, so grateful for everyone who’s listening, and for all your support and love and retweets and telling your friends about the show, and for supporting us at Patreon, and for just being here with me in these extraordinary times. If you’re new to the podcast, welcome! If you’re an old friend of the show, thanks for sticking with us. 

Today, I talk to musician Amelia Ray. Amelia is currently based in Helsinki, and before that, San Francisco, and before that, Reykjavík, and before that, many many other ports of call. We talk about the circumstances that led her to become an avid traveler and eventually a performer aboard tropical cruise ships. 

You never know when a 3-hour tour could become a way of life…hashtag Gilligan’s Island, hashtag popculture references for old people. You’ll hear a few more of those in this episode. You’ll also get to hear Amelia sing her song “Constant Traveller,” recorded live during our conversation.

Amelia is the creator of the Quarantuned Music Festival, the variety show Up, Up, and A Ray, and the MashUpheaval podcast, an all-request show wherein she dunks your chocolate in her peanut butter to create a tasty new blend of musical delights. 

Find Amelia at
AmeliaRayDotNet

Catch the Up, Up, and A Ray show at
upupandaray.com

Subscribe to the MashUpheaval podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.

Support Amelia on Patreon at
patreon.com/ameliaray

Amelia’s got new singles in the hopper, so do drop by amelia ray dot net for updates!

Amelia and I talked about how we’re holding up during the COVID crisis, feelings about the Black Lives Matter uprising in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, travel to other countries, being a working musician, the process of creating music projects and uplifting others’ work, playing music on cruise ships, yacht rock, mental health, family and relationships.

Comic and podcaster Lauren Flans

Illustrator Patrick Strauss

Family Tradition by Hank Williams, Jr.

Global Giving: Coronavirus Relief Fund

A hearty thank you to all our patrons for making this show better! A special shout-out to our Serendipity level patrons: Dorian, Emily, and Brittany! It’s easy and satisfying to become a patron of And The Next Thing You Know! Just go to patreon dot com/nextthingpod, sign up, and select the level of support that works for you. I’ll only charge you when episodes post – set it and forget it!

#nextthingpod

Hit Subscribe or Follow in your podcast app, or click on your favorite app on our Subscribe page!

Rate or review us on Apple Podcasts

Sponsor the show at Patreon

Join the conversation at nextthingpod on Facebook

Find me at soozenextthing on Instagram

Find all the episodes, full episode transcripts, and all the ways to participate in the #nextthingpod community at nextthingpodcast.com

Email us your And The Next Thing You Know story by recording a voice memo on your phone, and sending it to nextthingpod at gmail.com. We might use it or talk to you for an upcoming show!

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.

The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz.

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.

In this episode, I talk to my guest, Cisco, about how being sober isn’t just about not drinking booze. Cisco’s exploration of sobriety is no less than a spiritual quest, and it’s a daily examination of how he can be of better service not just to himself, but to the people in his life. We get into the weeds (ahem!) of his story by way of work pressures, sex clubs, racism, trauma, queer bar culture, and yeah, I figure out a way to squeeze in a reference to late stage capitalism in this episode too, if you’re keeping track.

Cisco is a designer, a writer, a musician, and a human.

A correction: the “parable” I refer to about walking down a road and falling into a hole turns out to be a 1994 poem by Portia Nelson, titled “Autobiography in Five Short Chapters.” My apologies for not crediting her in the episode. You can find the poem by googling it, and here’s a cute, short video illustrating it.

Major themes: self-care, psychology, spirituality, sobriety, harm reduction, sexuality, othering and being othered, LGBTQQI culture, alcohol and drug use.

Thank you to all our Patrons for making this show better! Special thanks, in particular, to our Serendipity level Patrons, Emily, Brittany, and Dorian. <3

If you wanna join the NextThingNerd Squad, please head over to
patreon.com/nextthingpod, choose the level of support that works for you, and be part of creating this totally independent podcast. It’s a labor of love, but, still, a labor, so help a podcaster out, yeah? Thank you so much.

We are And The Next Thing You Know. Subscribe in your podcast app, and tell your friends about the show on your social media with the hashtag #nextthingpod.

Our official HQ is at

nextthingpodcast dot com where you’ll find complete transcripts and detailed show notes for every episode, all the social links and subscribe buttons, and the archive of every episode.

Full episode transcripts are here

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Join the discussion at
facebook dot com/nextthingpod
instagram dot com/soozenextthing
@soozenextthing.bsky.social

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at nextthingpod at gmail dot com

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö. The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz.

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.