And The Next Thing You Know

Julia Serano is the author of the nonfiction books Whipping Girl, Excluded and Outspoken. She also just published a work of fiction called 99 Erics: a Kat Cataclysm faux novel. But wait, there’s more! She’s a biologist. She’s an activist. She’s a musician. And as you will be reminded in this conversation, Julia Serano is a “Notable Feminist Theorist.” And I’m putting that in, as she might say, “scare quotes.” 

Julia Serano sat down with me to talk about how her life changed in three surprising ways in the wake of her gender transition, but not because she transitioned. She became a writer, a feminist theorist, and she became more confrontational, sometimes even “bombastic,” rather than a person who just wanted to smooth things over.

We also talk about the band Rush. Kind of a lot.

Find Julia at her website juliaserano.com. Her professional articles about critically important trans issues, feminism, and politics are at medium.com/@juliaserano.

You can support Julia’s prolific non-fiction and fiction writing over at her patreon page, 
patreon.com/juliaserano, and, as if she could be more creative, she also performs rawkin’ and often hilarious powerpop as softvowelsounds.

Thank you to all our amazing patrons for making this show better. A particular hat tip goes out to Serendipity level contributors Brittany, Emily, and Dorian. Thanks, y’all. If you give at any level, there’s extra good stuff over at our Patreon page. Check it out at patreon.com/nextthingpod.

I’m still looking for your stories about how COVID-19 is changing your life. How are you feeling? How are you coping? Have you or someone you love been directly affected? If you want to share your thoughts, record a short voice memo on your phone, and email it to nextthingpod at gmail dot com.

Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com
where you’ll find complete transcripts and detailed show notes for every episode, all the social links and subscribe buttons, and the archive of every episode.

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Join the discussion at
facebook dot com/nextthingpod and
Instagram dot com/soozenextthing

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at
nextthingpod at gmail dot com – we might use it in a future episode!

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.
The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz. 

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.

An empty toilet paper aisle in the early days of the pandemic, Oakland, California, 2020

In this episode:   

I can’t imagine business as usual right now at a podcast about how our lives can change on a dime.

So I reached out to our community, and I want to share some stories about how folks are coping with COVID. I think we can all relate to these reflections, find some comfort and solidarity, and just be in this thing together.

This episode is dedicated to the way the COVID-19 pandemic is changing our lives. I will continue to share your stories over the next however many episodes I can, so keep recording your voice memos with some thoughts about how you’re doing out there. 

Email your COVID realities to me at nextthingpod at gmail dot com. 

I read written reflections at the top of the show from:

Rian, jobless in Seattle; Sam on kid’s sacrifices in Jersey; Molly in Berkeley on kids’ disappointment and the uncertain prospect of nursing through the pandemic; Rachel in Modesto on fascism in the time of plague; Kate on managing risk factors and working with children in Boston; Jenn on a busted knee in Oakland; and Lyn on trauma response and cherishing time with her kid in Berkeley. 

We also hear direct voice messages from:

Juniper, a doctor in Portland; Daria, reflecting on forced introspection in Providence; Gordon, an essential grocery worker in San Francisco; Amanda, living in exile in her own home in Graton; Linda, on family and grocery store battles in Campbell, and Samaki on needing a certificate to walk the dog in Schiltigheim, France.

Gordon adapted his piece from his blog series “Diary of an ‘Essential Worker.’” You can find it at gordonzola.net. He is also the author of two really great books, Cheesemonger: A Life on the Wedge, and Cheddar: A Journey to the Heart of America’s Most Iconic Cheese.

Thank you to everyone who sent in reflections, and everyone out there listening. There’s a lot more ground to cover on how COVID-19 is affecting us. If you want to share some of your experiences and feelings, open up your voice memo app in your phone, record a short message, and email it to nextthingpod at gmail dot com.  

Wash your hands and stay the fuck home, if you can.

Don’t be like me, panicking in the parking lot of a nameless national grocery chain. Support worker-owned co-ops like Rainbow Grocery!
https://www.rainbow.coop/

Prison Policy Initiative 
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/

Last Prisoner Project
https://www.lastprisonerproject.org/covid-19

RAICES 
https://www.raicestexas.org/2020/03/19/raices-response-to-covid-19/

A big thanks to all my patrons for believing in me and making this show happen! Become a patron of And The Next Thing You Know podcast at patreon.com/nextthingpod

Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com

Full episode transcripts are here.

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Join the discussion at
facebook dot com/nextthingpod

instagram dot com/soozenextthing

@soozenextthing.bsky.social

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at nextthingpod at gmail dot com

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.

The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz.

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in. Stay safe.

Nancy Au is an author and a writing teacher based in the Bay Area. Her full-length book of fiction Spider Love Song and Other Stories was published in September of 2019, and it’s longlisted for the 2020 PEN America Literary Awards/Robert W. Bingham Prize for Debut Short Story Collection.

Nancy and I got together to talk about our shared experience living with dead parents. One of Nancy’s most formative And The Next Thing You Know stories is that her father and mother died within 5 years of each other, marking the beginning and the end of her college years.

Nancy Au’s book is Spider Love Song And Other Stories, available at Acre Books. Nancy’s website is peascarrots.com.

Nancy is so engaging and delightful to talk to, and this was such a sweet, tender conversation we had. 

We also hear Nancy read from her story “How To Become Your Own Odyssey, or The Land of Indigestion,” and we talk about how our intimate losses contribute to the art we make.

Being friends with your grandparents; the death of parents; experiencing death at a young age; grief; feeling preternaturally old; fantasies about what relationships might have been like; career paths and family obligation; our mother’s new relationships after our fathers died; sharing memories with loved ones and family friends; how grief shapes you; Mahjong; Chinese American experience in San Francisco and the Central Valley of California; Nancy’s work as a writer; fiction; making art.

We just briefly mention that Nancy’s grandmother survived both the Japanese occupation of China (1937-1945) and Mao’s Cultural Revolution. She was a teenager during the occupation, and fled China in the 1950s when she was in her 30s.

M.A.S.H., Dynasty, Bob’s Burgers, and Murder She Wrote were all referenced.

Nancy mentioned Leslie Jamison’s The Empathy Exams, with respects to trauma, and holding our stories in vs. sharing them, and perhaps, therefore, feeling that our trauma doesn’t belong to us in some way. 

Nancy’s writing teacher and mentor is Peg Alford Pursell.

Nancy talked about the movie The Farewell (2019) directed by Lulu Wang.

A huge thank you to all my Patrons, and a special shout out to my Serendipity Level Patrons, Brittany and Emily!! Thanks to all of you for making this podcast better.

If you’d like to support the show, visit the patreon page for the details and goodies! patreon.com/nextthingpod.

Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com
where you’ll find complete transcripts and detailed show notes for every episode, all the social links and subscribe buttons, and the archive of every episode.

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Join the discussion
facebook dot com/nextthingpod
Instagram dot com/soozenextthing

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at
nextthingpod at gmail dot com – we might use it in a future episode!

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.
The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz. 

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.

This is my conversation with Jenessa Schwartz. She’s 37 years old, and she’s living with stage 4 colon cancer. She’s also my niece, my sister Cyndi’s daughter. Jenessa has two kids under 10. She was the Womb For Hire (her words) for two adorable surrogate kids, which is one of the menschiest things a person can do in this life. She’s a middle school language arts teacher, a musical theater aficionado, a giant nerd, and beloved to her huge, dear circle of friends and family. And she’ll be on chemo or some form of treatment for her cancer for the rest of her life. 

Jenessa’s blogs:
My Colon Cancer: Semicolon, Not Full-Stop

Womb for Hire – Thoughts on becoming a surrogate mother

Jenessa also got press on her surrogacy at
J, the Jewish News Weekly.

In this episode, we covered a lotta ground. We talked about living with stage 4 colon cancer; colorectal cancer and metastatic cancer; HIPEC surgery; surrogacy; parenting and talking to children about cancer; Jewish culture, teaching, and family life; life with a terminal illness; crisis points and how we make choices to change our lives because of them; relationship changes in the context of a crisis; the epidemic of young people with late-stage colorectal cancer; favorite podcasts; and, most importantly, why you should get a colonoscopy right now. Seriously. If you’re 45 or older, even without symptoms, it’s time.

The Major-General’s Song from The Pirates of Penzance (Gilbert and Sullivan, 1879)

The Jewish festival of Purim

Bill’s Café in San Jose’s Rose Garden

What’s a peritoneum?

HIPEC surgery procedure

Ileostomy

“NED” means No Evidence of Disease.

Living with a chemo port

On younger people with late-stage colon cancer: at webmd and the American Society of Clinical Oncology.

What does a spleen do? (Turns out, it’s part of a mammal’s immune system and recycles red blood cells, stores fresh blood, and recycles iron into the bloodstream.)

A siddur is a Jewish prayer book used for Shabbat (the Sabbath) and daily prayer.

Shout out to Guy Raz and Mindy Thomas Wow in the World is one of Ramona and Solly’s favorite podcasts.

Jenessa’s fave podcasts to listen to with the kids: 
Wow in the World, Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Story Pirates

Jenessa’s adult faves: 
Radiolab, The Allusionist, Ask Me Another, Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me 

I mention that Helen Zaltzman (The Allusionist) now has a new Veronica Mars podcast, which I thought Jenessa would be excited about. And she is.

Jenessa’s recommended cancer research and care organizations are Camp Kesem and the Colorectal Cancer Alliance.

Jenessa’s Blue Star Tribute page at Colorectal Cancer Alliance (link is down as of Jan 2024. Hopefully we will get it back online.)

A very sincere thank you to all you patrons of And The Next Thing You Know. You make this show better. Thank you so, so much for all your support.

If you’d like to become a patron of the show, come see us at patreon.com/nextthingpod.

Find us, and host Suzie Sherman, at

nextthingpodcast.com 
nextthingpod : fb • gmail • patreon
soozenextthing : insta

Banana peel by Max Ronnersjö.
Theme and interstitial music by Jon Schwartz.

Thanks for listening!

Nannette Mickle’s work life is a surprising and diverse series of next-things. She’s been a candy and cigarette girl, she’s worked in social services providing housing opportunities for unhoused folks. Back in the 90s, she once understudied as Bobby Brady in a notorious live show directed by Joey Soloway. And these days, she sits bedside with dying people, and helps her clients create self-actualized death plans. I wanted to talk with Nannette, because she embraces new work opportunities in her life with so much curiosity and joy, and makes plans to move on if the work fails to compel her. As a bit of a malcontent in my own work life, this conversation was a real salve.

Nannette Mickle is a joyful death doula who embraces mortality as a way to fully experience life. An enthusiastic ballet aficionado and irreverent forever-goth, Nannette dreams of ways to help others navigate towards a more self-guided and actualized end-of-life.  Traveling, petting small animals, and sitting bedside with hospice patients are just a few “musts” in her life.

Major themes: 

Becoming a death doula; David Bowie’s death; meditation; our cultural denial of and glorification of death; non-linear career paths; the Real Live Brady Bunch, “exercising yes,” or “practicing yes;” when you end up dating your housemate; making lifelong friends and community from your connection to certain workplaces; creating friend community, particularly as queer folks; finding satisfaction in work and being “entertained” by it; trading off more money for work experiences that you enjoy; pink collar jobs; creating balance between work and other aspects of our lives; creating a death plan, end of life celebrations, and legacy projects to cultivate a more meaningful death experience. 

References: 

David Bowie

Zen Hospice Project (now called Zen Caregiving Project)

Tibetan death and dying practice:
https://fpmt.org/mandala/archives/older/mandala-issues-for-1997/september/how-to-benefit-the-dying-and-the-dead/

On being driven by our anxiety about death, see Ernest Becker’s The Denial of Death:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death
 (groundbreaking, but certainly dated) and  Terror Management Theory:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory

The Peachy Puffs
https://www.peachyspuffs.com/

The Real Live Brady Bunch
https://chicagoist.com/2013/07/07/chicagoist_weekend_theater_jane_lyn.php

Joey Soloway – the creator of the Real Live Brady Bunch, and more well known as the creator of Transparent and as a writer/producer on lots of critically acclaimed TV shows.

Note: Joey is nonbinary and uses “they” pronouns now, and Nannette and I were not aware of this when we recorded the show. Joey was also still going by their former name when we recorded, so we use that name in the episode. We offer our apologies to Joey for using the wrong pronoun in this episode.
Joey Soloway on Wikipedia

Jane Lynch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Lynch

Ana Gasteyer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Gasteyer

San Francisco’s New Dawn Cafe, RIP

Catholic Charities’ Homelessness and Housing services
https://www.catholiccharitiessf.org/what-we-do/homelessness-housing/overview.html

Walden House San Francisco
https://www.healthright360.org/agency/walden-house

San Francisco’s Sparky’s Diner, RIP.

Hostelling International
https://www.hihostels.com/

SF Ballet
https://www.sfballet.org/

Rabbit Rescue
https://www.rabbitrescue.com/sanfrancisco/

Future Farmers of America
https://www.ffa.org/

The performance troupe, nonprofit, and more, You’re Going to Die:
http://www.yg2d.com/

*      *      *

We are And The Next Thing You Know. Find us, and host Suzie Sherman, at

https://nextthingpodcast.com
https://www.facebook.com/nextthingpod/
nextthingpod at gmail dot com
https://www.instagram.com/soozenextthing

#nextthingpod

Support us at
https://patreon.com/nextthingpod

Record a voice memo with your And the Next Thing You Know story and send it to
nextthingpod at gmail dot com.

Banana peel by Max Ronnersjö.
Theme and interstitial music by Jon Schwartz.

Today I’m talking with my guest, Keith, about a time in his life not so long ago, when shit went totally off the rails. He had a psychotic break and a set of experiences that blew up his marriage, his relationship with his kid, his job. Basically, nothing’s the same for him since that experience.

Major Themes: 
Mental health, behavioral challenges, bi-polar disorder, psychosis, family, breakups, custody and relationship with kids, drug and alcohol use and treatment, harm reduction approaches vs. abstinence-based treatment, a dive into why I started this podcast, finding strength in friends and rebuilding after a crisis, forgiving ourselves for mistakes and harm we’ve caused.

Mental Health and Drug/Alcohol Resources:

The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline:
https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

If you are looking for a licensed therapist or a registered therapy intern, the Psychology Today therapist listings in your area are usually a pretty helpful place to start:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists

A national listing of community mental health clinics:
https://www.thenationalcouncil.org/topics/certified-community-behavioral-health-clinics/

SMART Recovery program (SMART stands for Self-Management and Recovery Training.)
https://www.smartrecovery.org/about-us/

Center for Harm Reduction Therapy (Bay Area only)
https://harmreductiontherapy.org/

Moderation Management
https://www.moderation.org/

AA – Alcoholics Anonymous
https://www.aa.org/

NA – Narcotics Anonymous
https://www.na.org/

References:

The social research I was referring to about how the beginnings and ends of experiences register more intensely than the middles of experiences is discussed this episode of the Hidden Brain podcast from WNYC:
https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=592986190

Bi-polar disorder overview from NAMI – the National Alliance on Mental Illness:
https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions/Bipolar-Disorder/Overview

What is psychosis, also from NAMI:
https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions/Early-Psychosis-and-Psychosis/Overview

Seroquel – the anti-psychotic medication we referred to that might have helped Keith sleep:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetiapine

AA meeting in Antarctica? Yes! Sometimes twice a week during the summer season, as told to me word of mouth by a friend of mine who works there seasonally. If you’re ever on The Ice and looking for an AA meeting, stop by Chapel of the Snows!
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/chapel-of-the-snows

The Hawthorne Effect
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3969247/
Mixed conclusions about subjects improving under observation.

The Hemingway quote Keith referenced is from A Farewell to Arms:
“The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially. If you are none of these you can be sure it will kill you too but there will be no special hurry.”

The Leonard Cohen quote I referenced is from his song “Anthem:”
“There is a crack in everything/That’s how the light gets in.”

“Scrambling your DNA” is most definitely a Dan Savage-ism. Thanks for that helpful term, Dan.
https://www.savagelovecast.com/

Toward the very end of our conversation, Keith snuck in an Operation Ivy reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HtUnubXAO4

I’m really excited to share these stories with you about how our missteps and disappointments and serendipity lead us smack-dab into our life plans.

Today, I’m talking with my guest Becca about creative actualization: how our drives for self expression and creativity get derailed whether by internal narratives or structural oppression, or the demands of making our work “marketable.” It’s a conversation about how we keep on creating, even if that looks like playing the piano for no one but ourselves. 

Becca and I talked about a lotta stuff in this episode, as we feel our way into the major themes we’ll be exploring on And The Next Thing You Know. Among the subjects we touched on: Punching up, not down. Forming a sense of self and creative endeavor with little family support. The demands of being “profitable,” who can afford to do art, and the integration of art into our regular lives.

Imposter syndrome and working through our blocks. Decolonizing your time! Piano – just playing vs. performing in front of people. Sucking at something before you get good. This is so important! Embracing our imperfections.

Karaoke culture – giving ourselves permission to love singing and, also, to be bad at it! Grappling with our sense of inherent “badness” and the systems that hold us back.

The Jewish teaching of tikkun olam: the repair of the world and of ourselves. The consumption of art vs. the creation of art, and the treachery of false dichotomies. 

We’re kind of smart, I guess. Except I didn’t know who Jeff Koons was when Becca mentioned his very commercial pop art (sorry/not sorry?) Here are some of the cultural and popcultural creators and creations we referenced in the episode:

Becca paraphrased a quotation, “Art is controversial, or else it’s propaganda.” We didn’t figure out who said it, but here are some related quotes that may have been the crux of her remembering: 

W.E.B. Du Bois: “…I do not care a damn for any art that is not used for propaganda.” (Which is the opposite sense of propaganda that Becca intended.)

George Orwell: “All art is propaganda…on the other hand, not all propaganda is art.”

Keith Haring: “I don’t think art is propaganda; it should be something that liberates the soul.”

Help me eek a living out of my creative output! You’ll be part of a loving band of scoundrels who also dig this podcast, and you’ll get occasional goodies and shout-outs, too! Visit us at patreon dot com/nextthingpod.

Full episode transcripts are here.

Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com

Support the show by becoming a patron!
patreon dot com/nextthingpod

Join the discussion at
facebook dot com/nextthingpod

instagram dot com/soozenextthing

@soozenextthing.bsky.social

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at nextthingpod at gmail dot com

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.

The theme and interstitial music are by Jon Schwartz.

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.

And The Next Thing You Know is a podcast about how our lives go exactly not as we planned them. No matter how hard we cling to our plans for college and career and relationships and creative goals, it’s actually the disruptions in our lives, the wrenches and the tangents, that throw us in a different direction and force us to inhabit these beautiful, messy, trauma filled, disappointing, gorgeous, sexy lives, despite ourselves.

Welcome to our living room. Read more about the show here.

Common topics we cover in the podcast are psychology and mental health, evolving career paths, relationship explosions, alcohol and drug use and harm reduction, death and grief and the absurdity of it all, how to make art and create meaning in this one short life we’ve got.

The podcast is a series of lovingly rendered conversations about all this serendipity and trauma.

We’d love it if you consider supporting the show at patreon dot com/nextthingpod! You get to make this podcast tick, and you’ll get some sporadic goodies, too. Become a patron of independent art…it’s good for ya!

Our official HQ is at
nextthingpodcast dot com

Join the discussion at
facebook dot com/nextthingpod
instagram dot com/soozenextthing
@soozenextthing.bsky.social

Say hi, give us feedback, or send us your own And The Next Thing You Know story at nextthingpod at gmail dot com

The banana peel is by Max Ronnersjö.

The theme & interstitial music is by Jon Schwartz.

Thanks everybody. We’re so glad you tuned in.