John Zerzan discusses anarchism, civilization critique, and the case for abandoning technological society. Zerzan examines his philosophy arguing civilization itself is the source of human alienation and environmental destruction. The conversation explores Zerzan's critique of agriculture, technology, and complex societies as fundamentally harmful to human flourishing. Zerzan discusses his vision of returning to primitive lifestyles and whether this is possible or desirable. The discussion addresses the costs of civilization including inequality, warfare, environmental devastation, and psychological suffering. Zerzan examines technological society's trajectory and whether collapse is inevitable or should be actively pursued. The broadcast explores Zerzan's anarchist philosophy rejecting all forms of imposed authority and hierarchy. Zerzan discusses whether humans were happier and healthier as hunter-gatherers before agriculture and civilization. The conversation addresses criticisms of primitivism and questions about how billions could abandon civilization. Zerzan examines what critique of civilization reveals about human nature and whether progress represents an illusion masking decline.