Heather 0:00

Welcome to the artful teaching podcast! It's been a while. This is Heather Francis and I am back as a co-host for this show to produce a special episode with my friend Stephanie West. She and I are going to be discussing a framework that she has developed as part of her doctoral studies. It's called the Native Voices Framework. She's going to fully describe it in just a moment, but to get listeners right on the topic of what Native voices are: There's the Tribe. You have a Sovereign Nation. They have someone that they've appointed to speak for the Tribe. It's someone sanctioned by the Tribe to be their voice. That is an official type of voice. But then you can have a neighbor who lives next door who has Native heritage, and they have Native experiences and perspectives to share as well. Then you might go into your student’s or child's school and see a Native artist presenting something, and they are another type of Native voice to share. So it's important in education, when we're looking to amplify Native Voices, that we understand these different voices and the different values that they evoke and share with us. 

Stephanie West 1:29

You talked about the Native Voices Framework as being part of my doctoral work, and yes, it is, but this really started before then. We've shared content about this for years, so I can't say that this is my work, but more that I have been given the privilege of expanding on it as we've continued to learn more about these different perspectives that are available to us, as well as some missing pieces, which I'll talk about in a second, that help us to clarify how teachers might frame those perspectives and understand how those different various voices, Native voices, can impact their teaching of Native topics.

Heather Francis 2:11 

This framework is coming out of content that our program coordinator and program manager have been presenting in workshops for several years. And it's really great, Stephanie, that you're formalizing it. We love to see this kind of deep research and thinking. So the first question is, what is the framework? 

Stephanie West 2:31

A framework is something that helps us to organize the information that's available to us and make it more applicable to our own work. The Native Voices framework, the image that we've created, which you can see on our website, is in the form of a circle. We felt it was really important to communicate both visually as well as through words. That is more of an Indigenous pedagogy, to also use shapes to communicate information. We have this circle that has a ring of individuals around it that have their hands connected. There's also some coloring to that circle. There's a deep red color as well as a black color, and they kind of blend into each other. It's concentric circles. The image that we currently have is two dimensional. I would love to have it recreated in a three dimensional shape. If we were to see it three dimensionally, I would see it as more like a cone, where it's wider at the base, and comes up to a point at the top. That point at the top is the focus. But the base visually communicates the different values that influence both our teaching of Native topics, as well as the different values that might influence different Native perspectives. We put that on a continuum of both Native values as well as Western values. And most educational systems are Western. 

Heather Francis 4:15

Yeah, that's the world we exist in. When we say there's Native perspectives and Western perspectives, we're not saying that it's this against that. We know our own culture, that's one of our guiding principles. We do operate in a very western perspective, and it has certain values underlying it, just like Native perspectives have certain values underlying them. We're just including both of them in this framework.

Stephanie West 4:41

One piece of this framework that's helpful when it comes to the values is that, yes, we put it on a continuum, because they're not completely contradictory, but they can be very different. It's also helpful when you have a framework. We don't necessarily, as teachers, think about, how does this value influence the way that I teach? Often, we just have values, and they're just part of our lives. But by having this framework, it encourages teachers to be able to consider, “Oh, this might be the reason why I'm choosing to do it this way.” By making it more evident, we hope that teachers can be more thoughtful in the ways that they include those different values in their teaching. Especially with Native teaching, because for it to be accurate and authentic, you have to make sure that it aligns well with Native values. 

Stephanie West 5:40

I looked at lots of different content and also reflected back on our experiences from what we have learned as we've worked with Native groups. I was somewhat hesitant to put these different values in as being Native values, because we know that each Native nation and tribe are all very distinct. But these were some values that we found that did cross over multiple different Native groups. The values that we found were: community. Community is so essential with Native communities. Then there is the value of relationship. Relationships are essential to the ways that we learn. When you think about Native communities, they usually learn through multiple different individuals coming together, as well as through different ages. It's often a side-by-side learning, and it's more as a community. Native individuals come together, not just for the benefit of, “What am I going to learn as an individual?” but, “How does what I'm learning benefit the community?” which is related to both community and relationship. Another value is responsibility. When we receive knowledge, we have to recognize that there's a responsibility that comes with that knowledge, and that's a very Indigenous perspective. Another value is reciprocity. As we receive something, we don't just receive it and say, “Oh, it's mine. I can do whatever I want now.” Instead, we realize that with that responsibility comes also a need to use it in a way that will benefit the community. Creating this sense of reciprocity. There are also those ideas of looking back to your ancestors and looking forward. It's this deep connection. Another element of this is the idea of holism, that you're not just educating a mind, but you are educating a whole entire person. There's this attention to “What is this person becoming as a result of the knowledge that they're receiving?” Those are some of the Native values that came out. 

Stephanie West 7:50

There are a lot of different Western values that we could have highlighted, but we highlighted these ones because these are the ones that are very evident in our educational systems, and strongly influence the choices that we make. Sometimes these influences have been present for years and years. Many teachers are influenced by the education they received, and they carry it forward.

Heather Francis 8:20

What was modeled for us is often what we adopt.

Stephanie West 8:23

Yes. So some of the Western values that came out – these are not bad values. Many of these are very good values. Such as scientific skepticism. That's a great thing, right? It's very essential in research. But it’s the idea that we don't just accept something, we are skeptical about it. Another one is this idea of singularity. When we're in school, there's this need to get the right answer, or that there is only one right answer. That can be very different from an Indigenous perspective that may believe multiple answers to be true. There's also individualism, and we, as a society as well as an educational system, definitely emphasize the individual, often over the community itself. You can see this in our standardized testing and in all the different ways that we assess students.

Heather Francis 9:19

Graduation, honors, awards, scholarships.

Stephanie West 9:23

Exactly. When we assess students, we don't usually assess them as a group and take that as a whole. No, it's individual. Another piece of this is also compartmentalization. When we bring knowledge into the classroom, we often will teach it in its own different subjects. Many teachers try to bring things together, because we're coming to understand the value of making the connections between different subjects. But in general, most of our subjects are taught by subject. Then you learn math or science totally siloed. So those are the different values that came out as I was looking at these. The other piece I described was that circle of people who are connected together. For me, this was really important to include. We feel this when it comes to cultural things, especially a culture that may be different from us, where we wonder, “Do I have a place here? What is my role here?” I felt it was really important to keep that connection there, so teachers could not only see themselves there, but also see the importance of all the different interconnected people that play a role in that. 

Heather Francis 10:45

Integrated subjects, integrated people, yeah, I’m getting the idea. 

Stephanie West 10:49

That's the base layer. The next level is those Native perspectives, those Native voices. We had already shared a lot of content about this over time. We had three different categories that we used. I don't know if you remember when we added the fourth category? 

Heather Francis 11:06

Oh yeah, I totally do! 

Stephanie West 11:07

Do you want to describe that?

Heather Francis 11:09

Yeah! We were publishing our online course, which has a recorded presentation that Brenda and Emily did for teachers in our endorsement program. It covers the official voices, the people who get to speak for the tribe. Then the culture bearers or knowledge keepers, who may not be a part of the tribal council or the tribal government, but they hold a lot of the tribal history and stories and culture, and share it through presentations or leading rituals. The culture is preserved in their knowledge of it. Then there's authentic voices, which are the children and students in your classroom who have Native Heritage, or their parents or a neighbor or an organization that's also amplifying Native Voices. When we were talking about it, we had to consider, “Well, what about us?” We’re these artists and educators who are seeking to amplify Native Voices. We're working with official voices, authentic voices, and culture bearers, so now we have some cultural knowledge, and we've learned from them, and we want to honor them… but who are we? What are we? Eventually we decided we were informed voices.

Stephanie West 12:28

I loved that as we discussed this we asked, “What does an informed voice mean? How do you define what is an informed voice?” As we talked about it, this group could include Native individuals as well as non-Native individuals. For example, Brenda Beyal is an authentic voice to her own personal experiences, but at the same time, because her husband went to an Indigenous boarding school, she is also an informed voice due to her relationship with him, and is then able to share what she has learned in that way.

Heather Francis 13:06

She holds his stories with him, even though she didn't experience them for herself.

Stephanie West 13:11

I love the way that you said that. “She holds his stories within her.” That's such a great way to put it. So when you look at the framework and at those different perspectives that are there in the center, you'll see that they are also shaded in different colors. What we tried to communicate there was that all of these different perspectives can be influenced by these different values in different ways. For example, probably the most embedded within Native values are going to be your knowledge keepers and culture bearers, because they have accepted a responsibility to carry on Native knowledge and to share it. Now, the official voices, you'd think that they must also be very Indigenous. But even just the structure of Native governments– 

Heather Francis 14:02

They've adopted some Western perspectives in terms of government and politics and governing.

Stephanie West 14:11

Because of their need to interact with Western governments that are a very western style, they have had to adopt that kind of structure themselves.

Heather Francis 14:22

Speaking of which, we have a new animated film released on YouTube that tells that whole history. So go check that out!

Stephanie West 14:29

It talks about Native sovereignty throughout the history of the United States, so definitely check that out. Because of the effect of Western government, they can have some of that Western perspective as well. Authentic voices may be individuals that can share about their own experiences, but these are also individuals who maybe grew up learning about their culture, but maybe they didn't! So it's good to recognize the impact that western values may have on their perspectives. And then, of course, there's informed voices. Because most informed voices are going to be from non-Native individuals, we have to recognize that each of us who are not Native, we bring with us biases from our own lives. Bias is not a bad word. Just like these different values are not bad. But we do bring different perspectives with us, and it's important to recognize that. At the very center of the framework is the child. This is the focus here. We hope that by amplifying Native voices in the classroom that this is going to benefit not just Native children, but really all children. That it can provide a more balanced and enriching understanding for all students. 

Heather Francis 15:52

Thank you, Stephanie! It's a lot of content in one little image, but it's really helpful. I hope listeners, you can go to our show notes and to our website and check out the image so you can study it for yourself. But I think Stephanie, the next thing we need to do is talk about application of this framework. How can teachers use it?

Stephanie West 16:18

That's definitely the most important question here. When teachers are teaching Native topics– and before I get into that, because I say that often, “Teach Native topics,” sometimes I have to ask, “Okay, what do I mean by that?” Because, really, all topics are Native topics. But maybe they might be taught in a different way if it's from a more Indigenous perspective. Or an Indigenous way of knowing, is another term. So when I say Native topics, I really mean everything. But when teachers are trying to teach from a more Indigenous way, the things that they should do are, first, to grow your understanding of Native cultural values, and Western cultural values. I think that that's one piece of this framework that's important. To reflect on that, to think about, “How am I being influenced by different values when I teach these different subjects?” One piece of information that I came across is that most of the addition of cultural topics or cultural information into the classroom happens at a very superficial level.

Heather Francis 17:23

Facts, fun, figures, food, right? Geography? Which geography is important, but if you're just identifying the boundaries on a map, it may not be enough to understand the environmental implications to a culture.

Stephanie West 17:40

I think you said it at the very beginning. The goal here is to learn from Native Americans, not just about Native Americans. By first understanding what these different values are, then actively reflecting on those values and doing that in a continuous way, and considering how different values influence the decisions that we're making, how we're sharing Native knowledge, and what it is we're sharing.

Heather Francis 18:10

I actually had this moment when you were talking about the values in my imagination. In my mind, I saw myself as a teacher lining my students up at the door to leave the classroom, to go to the lunchroom or to another classroom or something. And my need for the order of the single filed line, which definitely has its place. Because you know, teachers, you know this. When you take a line of students through the hall, and there are other classes, the chaos that can ensue from a non-singular line…there's great potential. However, if I was looking at the framework, I think that's driven from my Western perspective of order and compartmentalization. But if I was looking for a transition to the computer lab that was more focused on community, I might say, “All right, you have three minutes to quietly make it to the computer lab,” and let them walk with someone side by side, and maybe share it as a social connection time, rather than, “Let's make sure nobody gets hurt on the way.” There'd be a time and a place where I would definitely take them single file, if there were other classes. But if it was during a class where there weren't people in the hallways, maybe that would be something I could choose.

Stephanie West

19:19

When you were describing this, I was thinking about how most of our classrooms are set up with rows. But a much more Indigenous way of coming together and gathering to learn is actually in a circle, and it's because of the balance that's present there. You can all see each other, and we're all equal in that circle, and we all have a part. That's another piece of information that I've found interesting as I'm learning more about Indigenous pedagogy. The idea from reciprocity and responsibility that even though there may be people who are the teachers, they also learn from the students. 

Heather Francis 20:04

The learner is the teacher, the teacher is the learner. 

Stephanie West 20:06

That reciprocity, right? So I think there's different ways that this can come out in our classrooms. And I love the example you shared about the line. 

Heather Francis 20:18

Yeah, choreography, you know. The dancer's mind of mine is like, “Hmm, how do we use space in schools in a more Indigenous way?”

Stephanie West 20:26

I love it. So we talked about the values. As well as reflecting on those values, and understanding what those values are. Then there's considering ways that we can amplify various Native perspectives in our classroom. The vision for the Native American Curriculum Initiative, our ultimate goal, is to amplify Native perspectives. It's by amplifying Native perspectives that we increase the accuracy and the authenticity of the teaching of Native topics,

Heather Francis 20:54

And that benefits all children.

Stephanie West 21:00

That's why we consider different ways that we can include a culture bearer or a knowledge keeper or an informed voice. But considering these different perspectives that are out there and how they might impact the decisions you might make. One other thing that just came to mind was about the visual description. You'll see that we have those smaller circles at the center, which are the Native culture bearers and knowledge keepers as well as official voices. That was intentional, because those smaller circles kind of communicate that these are less available to teachers. We recognize that.

Heather Francis 21:40

When I was a teacher, I taught middle school, and I ran a dance program, and I taught math. My social worker at my school told me about this great storyteller who was a friend of hers from the Ute Indian Tribe of the Uintah and Ouray reservation out in Roosevelt, and we were in Salt Lake City, and she's like, “I would love to ask him to come out and do a presentation for your dancers.” And I was like, “Yes, yes, yes, yes!” I love to have cultural artists in my classroom, and my dance company students just eat it up. They love it. All my students would eat it up, but especially them as more serious students of dance. So he came out and he brought a stuffed coyote for some coyote stories, and he taught us about the four winds and harmony and Native colors and the significance of a hoop and a circle. Then he taught my students the Bear Dance, and they danced the Bear Dance in my classroom. And we got video, and we got photos. He took images with us, and it was a lovely workshop. Then it went even further. He was a culture bearer. I learned that he leads a sweat session on the reservation once a month, so he's a spiritual leader. He is a Ute filmmaker, so he makes films and he tells stories, obviously a storyteller and instructor, an educator. So I felt really confident having him in my classroom. But what's interesting is, when I started working this job, and we have this Native American Curriculum Initiative, there happened to be this debate and tension around the Bear Dance, particularly. And how official voices of the Ute tribe had told members of our team that the bear dance should not be danced by non-Natives, and it should not be danced in schools. Invite a Native to come and lead the round dance in your classroom, but not the Bear Dance. So I had to stop and be like, “Uh oh. Did I do something wrong in the past, when I let Larry come and teach?” I didn't vet what he was going to teach. I let him come and teach what he wanted to teach, because he was the expert! I don't feel guilty, I feel like I really honored the culture artists that I brought in, but I also hear those official voices, and definitely wouldn't replicate what I saw or teach it myself. Instead, we have a Bear Dance lesson plan. I would teach students about the Bear Dance and why it's important to them that it's not performed by non-Natives. 

Stephanie West 24:05

It's important to recognize that culture is not a static thing. Culture is living. It's changing, and it's changing with the people and with the influences that are around them. That's an important thing to recognize, and I think it's good that you are not feeling guilty about that decision. It's good for us to invite someone into our classroom, especially if it's a Native voice. They are the experts. Even though that's conflicting information, where you would think “Okay, well, they've said this and he did this. What’s right?” Honor what happened in that moment. I think it's good to have the information from the official voice, because that really guides what we do in the choices that we're going to make. Like you said, you would not then go and teach this now, right?

Heather Francis 24:58

Yeah, and this story really pulls out the complexity of the framework. We began with that idea of values. We have Western values, we have Native values. And immediately my reaction was like, but they're not in contention with each other. They just exist in this way. Sometimes we want things to be this or that, and in this scenario, there's complexity. If we're giving a call to action to teachers around this framework, it's not just like, “Recognize the values,” but do the internal work that's needed to hold the complexity that they are all there for us to use and pick and choose and notice and be aware of. It's not, “Oh man, I really need to shed my Western ways of being.” No!

Stephanie West 25:53

What we're looking for here is to bring more balance to our education, because we've had such strong western influences. And when I say, “Bring more balance,” we're not asking teachers to do this all on their own either. We're not trying to. It's “How can we bring in these different values?” and especially when we're teaching about Indigenous or Native ways of knowing or specific events, that we try to do so in a way that's more accurate and authentic. By understanding these different values, I think it helps us to then transform the experiences in ways that make it more enriching and deeper. It's not just “Oh, I'm learning about this,” but, “How are we becoming different as a result of this? Are we learning from Native Americans, or are we learning about them?

Cally Flox 26:52

Artful teaching is made possible by the BYU Arts Partnership in the McKay School of Education. Thanks to James Huston for editing this podcast. 

Brenda Beyal 27:00

Music was generously provided by Connor Chee, a Navajo Dine, composer and performer.

Cally Flox 27:07

And special thanks to all of the teachers who are changing lives every day while serving in schools.

Heather Francis 27:12

If you like what you heard, please leave us a review. You can find all the show notes for this episode and more resources at advancingartsleadership.com

Brenda Beyal 27:20

Don't forget to check out our Tribe-approved lesson plans on the website as well.

Heather Francis

27:24

I'm Heather Francis,

Cally Flox 27:26

and I'm Cally Flox, 

Brenda Beyal 27:28

and I'm Brenda Beyal,

Cally Flox 27:29

wishing you an artful journey.

Episode Resources:

Utah Department of Culture and Community Engagement

Native American Teaching Artist Roster: Utah Division of Arts and Museums

List of Utah Title VI Coordinators

 

Native American Curriculum Initiative Website

www.advancingartsleadership.com/naci

Native American Lesson Plans

www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons

About the BYU ARTS Partnership 

https://advancingartsleadership.com/node/66

Episode Notes:

Cally Flox: Welcome to the Artful Teaching podcast. I'm here with co-host Heather Francis. We have two guests with us this morning, Emily Soderborg, project manager of the Native American Curriculum Initiative, and Brenda Beyal, project coordinator of the Native American Curriculum Initiative. Brenda, we've been answering questions from our teachers, and we have a list of questions here that we've been trying to get to. Let’s jump right in. Our listeners want to know: “How do I meet, connect with, and make friends with Native Americans in my community?”

Brenda Beyal: You have already met Native American people. You probably have friends that are Native American. The assumption that there are different communities that we have to walk into, to meet people and make friends, is probably something that we need to do away with. There are Native Americans all over the United States—we're still here. We are contributing members of the community. 

If you want to make friends or get to know a little bit more about culture, there are many opportunities that you can look for. One is to see if there are any community outreach programs, like in our community, there is the Utah Department of Culture and Community Engagement. Go to their website and you will find a lot of information on different events that may be happening. There are always series or lectures going on; there are museums that you can visit that are maybe hosting an art show done by Native Americans; and, you can also reach out to the Title VI program in your school community. I know that in our community, right now, it's winter. There are storytelling events that are going on up and down the Wasatch Front that you can find out about. It is quite easy to find events that you can go to. But I want to ask Emily, as a non-Native, how would you approach going into an event or, you know, just becoming a part of maybe a celebration?

Emily Soderborg: I think the biggest thing is just observing first, having a really open mind. I will just go and take my family places; oftentimes, I don't know anyone, but I'll just sit and observe and watch and see how other people are interacting. Be open to try new things. People that I follow on social media, I get information. This helps me to know a little bit about what's going on—just a little bit— which helps me to have conversations that feel more comfortable. Oftentimes, if you have absolutely no idea, no background, then you don't know how to start a conversation with someone. Having just a little bit of information, understanding that there are no wrong questions, believing that we can honestly, openly, and sincerely ask questions, then the people that we're interacting with, whatever differences they may have, whatever culture they may be from, they will recognize that and they will respond. 

I know I've asked questions in the wrong way in the past, and I've learned from that. The people that I was talking to said, “Oh, that's probably not the best way to ask that question. Here's a different way to ask it.” For example, asking the question, “Where do you come from?” isn't the best question. Instead, more appropriate questions are, 

• “Can you tell me about your background?” 
• “Can you tell me where your accent comes from?”
• “Can you tell me where your language is from?” 

I've learned from asking questions because I really want to know, and from just doing a little bit of research, so I know what types of questions are appropriate or what things I should ask. Finding the students in your classroom that are Native and connect with their parents. Asking parents questions has been really helpful for me too.

Cally Flox: Emily, talking about the students in schools—during Arts Express 2022, we had many Native American artists who were there presenting, and each of them shared their stories as they presented. I was struck by how many of them grew up with their friends and their teachers thinking they were Hispanic rather than Native American. Because of that misunderstanding, they never even had a chance to share what their heritage is, and where their relatives came from, or what they connect with, or associate with. To hear that over and over again: “They thought I was Hispanic.” “They didn't understand what my braids meant.” 

How simple it is to ask questions! You offered great ideas, Emily, teaching us how to ask authentic and genuine questions and then how to listen. We want to get to know every student in our class. So, we should be asking these questions of everybody: 

• “What do you relate to?” 
• “How do your grandparents feel about this?” 
• “Where does your language come from?” 

I love how you ask those questions. When I went to a couple of different powwows, the Native people there are in full regalia and are with their people, and that culture is different—I was the outsider. That was a different way of getting to know them. It's one thing when we're in the majority, but then there's another thing when we're in the minority.

Emily Soderborg: I've had that opportunity often to be in the minority. You recognize how uncomfortable you might feel, and how, since Native Americans are in the minority most of the time, how they have to approach things differently. Being in the minority helps you recognize how they feel most of the time, and helps you know how you would want to be reached out to how you would want to be responded to. Having those experiences helps you be more able to be the one open and welcoming when you are in the majority.

Brenda Beyal: As an indigenous person, if I see someone at an event, or if I invite someone to participate, I welcome questions. I always hope that they do not come into an environment thinking us and them, but rather us as humans that are having shared experiences, and that we have more commonalities than differences. Going into a situation and looking for commonalities helps in any situation, whether it's talking with somebody that is from a different race, or who comes from a different life experience, or comes from maybe a different point of view, religion, that we look for the commonalities

Cally Flox: When we find those commonalities, we see that we are more alike than we are different, that we can learn from one another, and see that together, we make a community. I think that that puts everyone at ease. Brenda, typically when we start a podcast, you start by introducing yourself in your native tongue, right? Because we've jumped right over that today, could we stop and acknowledge one of the beautiful ways we're different is your ownership of your culture through your language. 

Brenda Beyal: Yá’át’ééh Shí éí Brenda Beyal yinishyé, 'Áshįįhi nishłį́, Kinyaa'áanii bashishchiin, Tó'áhani dashicheii, Tó'aheedlíinii dashinalí, Ákót’éego asdzáán nishłį́. I just shared with you that my name is Brenda Beyal. I am born into the Salt Clan. I'm born for the Towering House people. I shared my maternal and paternal clans. At the very end, I said, “This is the kind of woman I am.” That's how I ended it.

Cally Flox: Beautiful. Thank you so much. Each time I hear you introduce yourself I reflect: 

• What is my maternal lineage? 
• What is my paternal lineage? 
• What kind of woman do I want to be?

I learned so much in these reflections. We find our common ground as I let you express your individual voice. Remember the day you taught me how to make frybread out in the in the driveway, getting ready for one of our gatherings? I realize we are both cooks for a family. We have both done family reunions and large gatherings before for our different clans. And we did that together that day based on your recipes and your heritage, but it's aligned perfectly with the times that I spent learning cinnamon rolls from one of my great mentors and cooking with my grandmother. Those things perfectly aligned! 

One of my most powerful memories when I was at the powwow here at BYU: I was brought to tears watching three different fathers. I sat quietly and just observed, because I love the dancing and the regalia and the interactions of the families. I love watching the families work. I watched three fathers standing in different places, helping their sons don their regalia for their dance: one was a toddler, one was maybe five or six, and one was eight or ten. I watched the caring of these fathers as they went through the ritual of putting on the regalia, getting ready to dance, and then watching these little boys follow their fathers out into the hallway and go down and line up to get ready to enter for their dance. I went, “Oh, my goodness, families are universal. Families are the same.” They had their rituals; my relatives have our rituals of baseball games or river rafting. But the emotional connection was just the same. I just saw the power of parenting in the time these fathers were spending with their children.

Brenda Beyal: Cally, that just warms my heart because it brings me back to the commonalities: seeing how we're alike rather than looking for differences. I'm not saying that we don't acknowledge the vibrant diversity of people in general, but underneath that all we all have love for family, love for ancestors, and love for one another.

Heather Francis: This topic made me think about recent Native American friends that I've made. I've been working with a woman in my neighborhood on a couple community projects. I knew that she traveled back to Arizona and that she had Native American heritage. But when I bring it up—and I'm trying to ask more questions to understand her background—it's not really what she wants to talk about. Asking her to tell me about her Native heritage feels almost “othering” rather than creating understanding on the ideas that are present and shared between both of us. So I focus on our relationship, our shared goals, and everyday ordinary experiences. I honor her Native American heritage by also acknowledging the many contemporary labels that she brings to the table everyday such as employee, mother, volunteer, community activist, etc. 

Brenda Beyal: I love that. I want to go back to where you have already met Native Americans, because we are a very vibrant part of the community already. I love that friendship trumps any kind of need to separate or even, you know, “Because you're Native, let me talk to you about Native things.” Instead, it's the friendship of people and human beings. Obviously, for all of us sitting here, we don't talk native 24/7 just because Brenda Beyal is in the room. We talk about all kinds of things.

Heather Francis: Could it be said that making friends with Native American people is like making friends with anybody? 

Brenda Beyal: Exactly.

Cally Flox: Along that same line, it's important that we become aware of others’ sensitivities when it comes to anyone we’re making friends with. Because I'm going to make friends more quickly with a Native American person when I do ask the right questions like—I can't think of it right now, Brenda, but you've said don't ask, “What tribe are you from?” What is the important wording?

Brenda Beyal: Sometimes people will say, “Oh, so are you Indian?” That's probably not the best way to begin a conversation. If you have introduced yourself and said hello, and you find this person intriguing and you think, “Hey, we might be friends.” Then, maybe another question down the line would be, “What tribal nation are you from?” Or, “What tribal nation do you hail from?” That kind of wording shows that you are being more specific rather than generalizing Native American people. 

Cally Flox: What’s the question Native people ask each other so they don’t date in the same clan?

Brenda Beyal: Oh, that's for differing tribes, for the Native people. For Navajo people, you want to make sure that you’re not dating someone that is born into the same clan you are, because clans are actually a form of building relationships and showing that we are all related. My parents would always encourage us to find out what clan the person that we were dating came from, because they never wanted us to date someone who was a member of our clan. So we would say, “What's your clan?”

Emily Soderborg: I want to state that oftentimes, I ask permission: “Would you be willing to share what your heritage is? What are your affiliations with tribal nations?” Because they might not want to talk about it. 

Heather Francis: I think that in some ways we broker friendships with schools and teachers and native communities. So if you are interested, we can help you connect with your Title VI coordinator or connect you with the Native Artist Teaching Roster. Bringing a Native artist to your classroom is a great way to make a new friend. 
 

Cally Flox: Some of the children in your classroom who are Native have never had the courage to speak up and say they’re Native. The day that Native artist shows up might be the day that they have the courage to really talk about their heritage.

Brenda Beyal: I do have to say that there are many parents who would happily come into your classroom and teach about their culture and their heritage.

Follow Us:

• Native American Curriculum Initiative Mailing List
• BYU ARTS Partnership Newsletter
• AdvancingArtsLeadership.com
• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts
• Subscribe on Spotify
• Subscribe on Amazon Music
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Pinterest

Don’t forget to peruse the bank of lesson plans produced by the BYU ARTS Partnership in dance, drama, music, visual arts, media arts, and more. Search by grade level, art form or subject area at www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons.

Episode Keywords:

NACI, Native American Curriculum Initiative, teachers asking appropriate questions about Native content, cultural appropriation, addressing Native stereotypes, indigenous pedagogy, Native American lesson plans, authentic voice, Artful Teaching podcast, Native American, classroom, indigenous pedagogy in the classroom, lesson plans, Native American, tribe, NACI authentic experience, teachers, culture keepers, share, curriculum, lessons, indigenous education, culture, Native American cultural arts, sovereign nation, song, Native American song, Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation, Shoshone Fish Song, choosing appropriate books, Native American children’s books, decision-based model for Native content, tipi, eight sovereign nations, Utah Educational Network

Episode Resources:

Decision-Based Model for Selecting Appropriate Native American Content for the Classroom

Blog Post: Answering Teachers’ Questions about the “Utah Indians” Song

How to Choose Native American Children’s Books for the Classroom

Utah Educational Network Resource: Five Tribal Groups, Eight Sovereign Nations

I Love the Mountains–Damen Doiya lesson plan

Northwestern Shoshone Fish Song lesson plan

Shi Naasha lesson plan: Coming soon!
 

Native American Curriculum Initiative Website
www.advancingartsleadership.com/naci

Native American Lesson Plans
www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons

About the BYU ARTS Partnership 
https://advancingartsleadership.com/node/66

Episode Notes:

Cally Flox: Welcome to the Artful Teaching podcast. Today we address the next question teachers have asked our Native American Curriculum Initiative experts, Brenda Beyal and Emily Soderborg. In our state, we have a wonderful program that was created in the 1990’s called “This is the Place.” It was written and based on people's understanding and the cultural zeitgeist of the day. Over the years, a sense of awareness emerged that one of the songs on that program, called “Utah Indians” is not ideally suited for representing Native American culture or Native American people. Over and over and over again, we get questions from teachers about this song: “Wow, is this song okay?” “Can I sing this?” Teachers now know to ask the questions, and they are asking intelligent questions, noticing: 

• “This song supports stereotypes.” 
• “This song is saying things that aren't really true.” 
• “This song has that stereotypical beat.” 

Teachers are learning to ask the right questions. They’re asking, “Can I use this song?” “What do I do?” Brenda Beyal is the Program Coordinator for Native American Curriculum Initiative (NACI), and Emily Soderborg is the NACI Project Manager. They're here to help us answer that question today.

Brenda Beyal: Thank you, Cally. We have had this question over and over again. When this song was first created, it was acceptable to people in general. Now, in 2023, we have viewpoints and perspectives that have changed. At this point, this song is probably verging on creating a narrative that is inaccurate for children. We want to do what's best for children. We want them to view their fellow friends and fellow community members in a way that is authentic and accurate. I don't know if this song does that.

Cally Flox: This is a song, based on our criteria, that we recommend be set aside.

Brenda Beyal: Yes.

Cally Flox: Too many inaccuracies exist in the song for a simple explanation for children in the classroom. For example, if we're choosing a children’s book, and there are one or two inaccuracies, we can show those to the children and still use the book with modifications. This song is one that needs too many modifications. It's time to set it aside.
 

Brenda Beyal: Right. Perhaps you're a teacher that is on a team that possibly uses the song, or you need to talk to an administrator about the song. Here’s how you can explain why the song “Utah Indians” marginalizes communities. There are a couple of things that we find in the song that are uncomfortable. For example, the very first words of the song—which is supposed to be about Native people—are actually sharing the original perspective that the song comes from.

Cally Flox: Will you tell us what it says in the beginning of the song?

Brenda Beyal: It's, “When white man came…” This song actually tells you what perspective the song is coming from.

Cally Flox: That's an honest point of view. This is a song written from white man's point of view about when white man came to the land. 

Brenda Beyal: Yes. 

Cally Flox: We want to move forward to restoring some of those cultural bonds and the sharing of the land and a more respectful point of view. At least the song was honest about the perspective they were sharing.

Brenda Beyal: Yes, yes. And that perspective was definitely skewed.

Emily Soderborg: Another thing to consider is that the song never brings Native Americans into the present. The song completely categorizes Native Americans as a historical people. Our discussions with Native families and Native educators show that the song has made many Native children feel uncomfortable and unseen, as to who they are today. So if they're being asked to sing this song, these Native children are not able to represent who they are today. The message of this song is not helping them connect to who they are right now.

Cally Flox: A great example of that was Brenda's nephew. His teacher told students, “Draw a Native American house,” and he drew a teepee. And Brenda said, “Do you live in a teepee? And he said, “Well, no, but that's what the teacher wanted me to do.” If a Native child can't find themselves in a song about Native Americans, that's interesting.

Emily Soderborg: This song teaches the five tribal groups; it goes through each of their names. In our work with the eight sovereign nations, we know these groups want to be known as the eight sovereign nations. We are hoping to help perpetuate their identity as eight sovereign nations rather than just the five tribal groups within Utah. Teachers can help with this concept by using the great “Five Tribal Groups, Eight Sovereign Nations” resource that Brenda and Cally have created with UEN as a performance resource instead of this song. I think a lot of times, the reason why teachers want to continue using the “Utah Indians” song is because it's part of a performance. Teachers want something that they can have students do for parents. But if you want songs to sing, we have also been given permission to sing several Native American songs from the specific tribal nations. 

Brenda Beyal: I want to talk about how a teacher can approach a team or an administrator who is encouraging them to continue to sing the song. The song “Utah Indians” not only maintains the stereotype of relegating Native Americans to the past, but also the perpetuates Native American stereotypes through the very beat of the song. It has a strong–weak–weak–weak pattern that is often labeled as the “Hollywood beat.” It's the beat that many movies use to depict Native Americans. It’s definitely not a Native American beat. That sometimes feels jarring when you're a Native American and you hear that beat.

Emily Soderborg: That beat is used to create stereotypical Native American music written by people that are not Native American. With a vocalization, it might sound like, HI–yah–yah–yah, HI–yah–yah–yah, HI–yah–yah–yah. This is not anything you're going to find in any Native American music. And I grew up with music like that, and I know now that it is stereotypical. When we know better, we do better—we change.

Cally Flox: I think that's a really important point. Brenda generously said at the very beginning of the episode that people thought this song was okay, in the 90’s when this was written, this was how the culture saw things. But I do want to acknowledge that there were people who knew it wasn't okay. There were people who felt marginalized every time the song was sung. So what I'm really grateful for is that as a culture, we've come to a place to start listening to those marginalized voices and saying, “Oh, this makes you uncomfortable. Teach me why.” Now, we can know better and do better. We're not faulting anybody who wrote this beautiful program that's been used in schools for 30 years, one that many children have embraced and loved and grown up doing. We want to acknowledge how important this “This is the Place” program has been in the development of many children learning the history of our state. We're trying to say, “Yeah, this is a great program. Now, how can we make it better based on some of the understandings that we have right now? How can we be sensitive to this particular marginalized group, bring them into the present, and strengthen our communities today?”

Brenda Beyal: I love that this teacher is asking this question because they want to be inclusive. Someone may say, “Well, let's just not do anything with Native Americans.” It’s impossible to talk about the history of Utah without talking about indigenous people within the state. If you're nervous, and you just say, “Well, let's just not do anything,” then you're creating a greater void in all children's narrative of how Utah became a state. Another point that one could bring up in seeing the need for the song to be replaced is that some of the lyrics use the terms “Great Spirit” and some lyrics say that Native Americans worshiped wind, fire, and water and different entities. As a Native American, I've never worshipped those elements. I may have a strong relationship or see reciprocity with those elements, but I've never worshiped them. Those lyrics can be confusing to not only Native children, but also to all children alike. Using the idea of a “Great Spirit,” we have in my Navajo culture, we have the Holy Ones. So, that can also be a sticking point.

Heather Francis: It's not just stereotypical, but it's homogenizing. These are not Navajo-specific lyrics, not specific to the Paiute tribe. Since it's not tribe-specific, it's homogenizing, or saying all Native Americans worship this way.

Emily Soderborg: I like to think about the way we use the term Native American: I like to connect it with the term European. Think about Europe, and all the different languages, all the different cultures that are found in Europe. So if you say, “Oh, someone is European,” you know that a French person is not the same as a German person, that they are going to have different backgrounds, different cultures, ways of living. So when we say Native American, that is very similar to saying, European. In the United States, there are 574 federally-recognized tribes with different languages, different cultures, different ways of doing things. So if we homogenize them all into one group saying, “Oh, they all do things the exact same way,” it's like saying, “People in Europe are all exactly the same, their languages are all the same, the way they do things are all the same.” Because Native Americans span more than just one continent—there are indigenous people all over—looking at it that way helps us understand the harm that can be caused by homogenizing.

Brenda Beyal: Although there are 574 federally-recognized sovereign nations, many more sovereign nations exist that only carry state recognition and not federal recognition. Additionally, there are many who aren't recognized at all, who continue to hold on to their culture and their tribal ways. 574 is just the starting point. There are so many more nations out there. 

Cally Flox: Teachers, we are so grateful for these questions and your desire to improve the accuracy and authenticity of the work that you do in your classrooms. When we contacted the publisher of the “This is the Place” music and program, that publisher said, “You know, I don't have the resources right now to rewrite that song, but I'm certainly happy if somebody else wants to rewrite it.” He certainly acknowledged that he, too, wants to be supportive. We have had conversations with the Utah Division of Arts and Museums, as well as with the Utah State Board of Education and discussed who would be willing to rewrite this song. I can't wait to see which artist, or maybe a team of Native American artists, will step forward to write a new song for this wonderful program that people like to use. 

Cally Flox: Teachers, we have some additional song suggestions to offer you. 

Emily Soderborg: The Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation has given permission for students in Utah to sing two of their songs. (As we are gifted opportunities to sing these songs, we also are given responsibility to sing the songs with the necessary knowledge and respect.)

Neither song should be sung without creating context for the listener. As you're doing performances, it's important to provide context. In the two different lesson plans, we have included a paragraph that provides this context for your students. I'm going to read it for you:

There are many native tribes in the United States with distinct languages and cultures. Within Utah, there are five tribal groups, but more importantly, there are eight federally-recognized sovereign nations. These eight sovereign nations are the Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation, the Skull Valley Band of Goshute, the Confederated Tribes of the Goshute Reservation, the Ute Indian Tribe of the Uintah Ouray reservation, the Ute Mountain Ute Tribe, the Paiute Indian tribe of Utah, the San Juan Southern Paiute Tribe, and the Navajo Nation. The song we are sharing today is specifically from the Northwestern Band of the Shoshone nation and does not represent other Native American groups. We hope Native tribes will respect the Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation's choice to share this song from their culture. Not all Northwestern Shoshone songs are appropriate for elementary students to sing. Many of the songs are ceremonial or sung for specific reasons or at specific times. However, Patty Timbimboo Madsen, the Cultural and Natural Resource Manager for the Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation, has given permission for students to sing this song. She believes that singing this song will help students to better understand how Northwestern Shoshone people see their surrounding environment. This song is traditionally sung while passing time, perhaps when a Shoshone is outside and sees something that brings the song to mind, like the clouds floating or being near the mountains or streams. We express our gratitude that the Northwestern Shoshone have graciously shared this part of their culture with us, and we will do our best to respectfully sing it.

I think as we're singing the songs, it’s important to acknowledge which tribal nation it comes from, that the tribal nation has offered permission for it to be sung—because not all songs should or could be sung by non-Native children, and that we express appreciation for the opportunity to be able to sing it. 

• Pengwi bai Anoga, (Northwestern Shoshone Fish Song)
• Damen Doiya. 

Cally Flox: Now before you give us the third one, is there any chance you would sing for us the first line of each of those? 

Emily Soderborg: Yes. Even though I've been given permission to sing it, we do have recordings of Native speakers singing these songs (that you should definitely have students listen to.) 

Recording of Helen Timbimboo singing “Damen Doiya”

Recording of Paula Watkins singing "Pengwi Bai Anoga"

Pengwi bai anoga, pengwi bai anoga, penwi bai anoga eh-na

Pengwi = fish

Bai = upon or above

Anoga (said with two different syllabic emphases because it is sung two different ways in the song) = waves

Buhip = green or grass

Eh-na = song word

That's one of the songs, Pengwi Bai Anoga.

And then we have Damen Doiya.

Damen doiya bai bagina havegin

damme/damen = our 

toiya/doiya = mountain 

bai = above 

bagina = fog/clouds 

havegin = lying while moving 

na = song word 

haiyawainde = the end of the song/the rat's tail broke off

We also have a Navajo song that we have been given permission to sing, which is Shí Naashá. 

Shí naashá, shí nashaá, shí naashá biké hózhǫ́ lá, hey ya hey ney ya

Shí = I

naashá = walk

biké = path I follow

hózhǫ́ = beauty way

lá = (emphasizing what was said before)

hey ya hey ney ya = vocables showing the end of the section

Here are links to these lesson plans:

• I Love the Mountains/Damen Doiya
• Northwestern Shoshone Fish Song
• Shí Naashá (coming soon)

Emily Soderborg: Pronunciation takes practice, but these are all songs that students can sing. The lyrics are repetitive. Every time I've taught them to students, they love them. Students feel drawn to them, and they want to sing them.

Cally Flox: These would have been songs the people sang when the pioneers came, so they are authentic Utah history songs. 

Brenda Beyal: Absolutely. They definitely tap into Native people.

Heather Francis: Yes. We have lesson plans that help you create context for students, that give you instructional resources to learn the songs, and the lesson plans include other standards. The content is more than just letting students learn the song. What are some of the other things students learn as they're learning these songs?

Emily Soderborg: The lesson plan is called the Northwestern Shoshone Fish Song, because if we titled it Pengwi bai Anoga people would not understand [what type of song] they're looking through in the lesson plan. [We wanted it to be immediately recognizable that this was a Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation lesson plan.] The Northwestern Shoshone Fish Song lesson plan uses lots of language arts standards: students are writing stories and connecting to a different culture. The lesson plan has social studies standards as well. The I Love the Mountains–Damen Doiya lesson plan includes a compare and contrast exercise, comparing “Damen Doiya” with an English folk song. Students are learning the geography of Utah with the landforms, studying different parts of the Great Basin, Rocky Mountains, and the Colorado Plateau. The Shi Naasha lesson plan includes the historical aspect and also ties in health standards, examining how students are responding to their own ability to deal with stress and different things in their lives. In all of these lesson plans, students are writing, reading, and creating lots of connections within themselves and across other content areas.

Cally Flox: You guys have done such a great job on these lesson plans. They are just loaded with many, many layers.

Brenda Beyal: I do have to say that these lessons are tribe approved: they have been shared and planned or collaborated on with each of the tribal nations.

Heather Francis: Watch this UEN video for a hand mnemonic device that helps students remember the five tribal groups, but more importantly, the eight sovereign nations. We have a blog post with information about this fourth grade song specifically, so we'll link that blog post as well. Teacher, this blog post shares important talking points for when you talk to your team or administrator who maybe resistant to changing this song in the program.

You can find all the show notes for this episode and more resources at advancingartsleadership.com.

Follow Us:

• Native American Curriculum Initiative Mailing List
• BYU ARTS Partnership Newsletter
• AdvancingArtsLeadership.com
• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts
• Subscribe on Spotify
• Subscribe on Amazon Music
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Pinterest

Don’t forget to peruse the bank of lesson plans produced by the BYU ARTS Partnership in dance, drama, music, visual arts, media arts, and more. Search by grade level, art form or subject area at www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons

Episode Keywords:

Indigenous pedagogy, teachers asking questions, Native American voices, amplify Native voices, history, importance of multiple perspectives, transcontinental railroad lesson plans, Native American historical timelines, answering questions, cultural appropriation, reflective listening, asking with genuine intent, honoring the no, listening, listening to amplify Native voices

Episode Resources:

Amplify Native Voices Online Professional Development Course
Artful Teaching Podcast Episode 19
Decision-Based Model for Selecting Appropriate Native American Content for the Classroom
Native American Children’s Books
Why a Hula Hoop is Different than a Native American Hoop
Native American Round Dance
Tips for Teaching Native American Art Projects Without Cultural Appropriation
Real and Ideal: A Closer Look at Westward Expansion (Transcontinental Railroad) lesson plan
Bear River Massacre Commemoration 
Women’s History Month: Mae Timbimboo Parry 
Bring a Native Artist to Your Classroom

Join our Native American Curriculum Initiative mailing list!
 

Native American Curriculum Initiative Website
www.advancingartsleadership.com/naci

Native American Lesson Plans
www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons

About the BYU ARTS Partnership 
https://advancingartsleadership.com/node/66

Episode Notes:

Heather Francis: Today I am introducing our content that was previously recorded at the end of 2022, when we filmed Brenda Beyal and some of our NACI team at a recording studio to capture some of the knowledge, experiences, and stories that we have to share with teachers, educators, and interested community members. We are asking questions about the Native American Curriculum Initiative and the principles and practices that have led our work up to this point. In today’s episode, Brenda answers questions about the importance of teachers asking questions with a genuine intent to understand. Then, after asking questions, she describes the importance of being prepared to listen attentively. Asking questions with genuine intent and listening attentively is one of the seven guiding principles that guide our work in the Native American Curriculum Initiative. You can listen to Episode 19, or check out the landing page on our website for NACI to learn more about our guiding principles. 

This specific guiding principle is really important to us as we work with Native partners and make sure that we're creating educational resources that not only amplify their voices and bring increased representation to the classroom, but also gain approval by their official voices and tribal councils. Listening attentively is really important. That's why we asked Brenda to explain some of her thoughts on this principle. In this podcast, Brenda invites Stephanie West to discuss this topic. Stephanie West is an instructional designer studying instructional psychology and technology at Brigham Young University. She's on our NACI team, and she and I designed the online PD course. Another podcast episode focuses just on the PD course. Since she has been doing a lot of the grading in the online course, she knows a lot of the questions that teachers are asking, like “Why is it important to ask questions with genuine intent and to listen attentively?”

Brenda Beyal: One of our guiding principles that has been so important for us as we've done our work with NACI is the idea of asking questions and listening attentively. When a teacher asks me a question, I don't ever think a question is too small or insignificant, especially when it comes to culture. Because when a teacher asks a question, it makes me feel like this teacher really wants to know more, and possibly wants some guidance. That's how I feel when a teacher asks me a question. I want to ask you, Stephanie, since you are the creator of the PD course, what kind of questions do you get from teachers who are taking the PD course?

Stephanie West: That's a great question. I think that a lot of teachers really want to know what's appropriate. I think that's the biggest question that we get: “What can I teach? What can I not teach?” Those are the biggest questions. Other questions that they might ask are: “How can I teach this? And do it in a respectful way?” I think those are probably the most frequent questions we get.

Brenda Beyal: Sometimes we've gotten questions about very specific parts of the curriculum, whether it's a dance or a song, or or even a book. Teachers want to know: “Is there cultural appropriation with this project I'm going to do or with this story?” Is that what you have found also?

Stephanie West: Absolutely. I think those questions that you're talking about are more specific questions, but they still fall under that same umbrella of the more general question: “What is appropriate? What is respectful? Am I appropriating?

Brenda Beyal: Yes. As we were creating the timelines, we wanted to make sure that we were truly amplifying the Native voice. Can you tell me how the guiding principle of listening attentively and asking questions has helped us produce a wonderful timeline for each of the Native tribes?

Stephanie West: I think that listening (first asking), but then the listening part is really, really key to that. I think that Native individuals have not felt heard for so many years, or if they have been heard, they have been misheard. Listening—it's not just asking the questions, but it's also the listening—and creating the timelines has been an incredible experience. I feel like I have learned so much. When I met with some of the Native groups, it was slightly uncomfortable at first. Their discomfort likely came from a place of distrust of us, at the beginning. It took time for us to establish any kind of relationship. Our listening was key to that relationship because at first they didn't trust us to actually listen. Going back to another principle, some Native groups didn't trust us to honor their ‘no’ if  the answer was a ‘no’ for some of the things that we asked about. What's been really interesting for me is that we have a large amount of silence in our conversations:  we'll ask a question, and then we don't get a response for a while. We don't get a ‘yes,’ or a ‘no,’ or any specific answer. Then, through a very indigenous way of teaching, they'll tell us a story. Instead of answering directly, they tell us a story. Through that story, we come to understand the answer to the question that we asked.

Brenda Beyal: Using reflective listening and making sure that we're telling the story, or what they're telling us, in an authentic manner—not inserting ourselves into the story, and not allowing our way of viewing life to skew what they're saying.

Stephanie West: There are lots of reflective questions that go into that. Once they share a story, or share a perspective, then we reflectively question to make sure that we've clearly situated the information that we're creating in the timelines. It's a very reflective process. We continue to go over and over one particular piece, one event in the timeline, until we know that it is exactly worded the way that this native group would like it worded.

Brenda Beyal: It's interesting that we started our NACI project with the question, “What would you like the children of Utah to know about your cultural ways, your history, your tribe?” We use reflective listening to help develop all of these resources that we are developing now. Questions are always invited and welcomed. Questions are the foundations of our projects.

Stephanie West: I think one piece of advice that I would give is that no question is offensive if it's truly, sincerely asked with the intent of amplifying a Native voice and really coming to a sense of understanding. Sometimes as teachers or individuals, we're afraid to ask a question. But if we are truly sincere, I think that the individual that we're talking with understands that.

Brenda Beyal: There are some specific questions that were asked such as, “Can I do this dance without having a Native American in the classroom? Or it might be, “I've always done this art project, and now that I've taken the course I'm wondering if this is an appropriate art project. I feel like it might be verging on cultural appropriation.” There might be another question, something simple, like, “Why do you call traditional dress regalia? Why don't you call it a costume?” There have been questions such as, “Do you call yourself a Native American or American Indian? Or, “What is the best term to use?” All of those questions vary, and we welcome them. If you have questions that you would like to have answered, please email us. Hopefully, we can give you some answers. If not, we will definitely send you to people or organizations that can help you. [See Episode Resources for a list of blog posts that provide helpful answers to some of these questions.]

Heather Francis: In this next clip, Brenda shares the importance of looking at history from multiple perspectives. She talks about how she believes that history is often told from one perspective and that there's danger in “the single story.” She describes why multiple perspectives are important to her and how working on some of our general Native American lesson plans, like the one on the transcontinental railroad are really important because they offer multiple perspectives on events in history and other events that impacted the lives of those living here in the state of Utah or the territory of Utah. Whether you're teaching Utah social studies or not, understanding history from multiple perspectives, and including Native perspectives on history, is really important.

Brenda Beyal: Often I feel like history is taught from one perspective, and there is a danger in just that one perspective or in that single story, because you lose the complexity of that historical time. When we take a look at other ways of seeing things, the world opens up for us and for students. There are times that parts of history are taught to children where we gloss over struggles and hardships in history. When we do that, we dismiss someone else's story. We all have a story, we all have a culture, we all have a way of looking at that history. It's important to acknowledge and recognize that through the making of America, there have been many struggles. So often in our state, we're willing to talk about how the pioneers crossed, and came to the valley of Salt Lake. We're willing to share the hardships that they went through: how people were left behind, how people died, and how the weather and the elements really were hard on the people that crossed the plains. 

But yet, we are hesitant to teach about the Bear River Massacre, or the Swamp Cedars Massacres. I feel like multiple perspectives on the different things that have happened are important. The transcontinental railroad is a perfect example. We see it as progress, you know, connecting the east with the west. But there's a part of that history where there was a decline in bison herds. Those bison herds were essential to Native American livelihood. When the government decided that the bison needed to be decimated, they were taking away someone else's livelihood and way of living. Sometimes, we don't hear about that. I feel like if we're going to not repeat history, we need to teach the history that we shouldn't repeat. Multiple perspectives open our eyes, help us to empathize, and help us realize that we are all human; we all have struggles, and we are all a part of creating a future that is good for everyone.

Heather Francis: This concludes the first three episodes of this Native American series where we've had Brenda answering our questions. The next two episodes in this series are Brenda answering questions that teachers submitted in the fall of 2022. We got together as an NACI team to dialogue and have a conversation about some of these questions that teachers had. One of the questions she'll be answering is about the "Utah Indians" song that is part of a fourth-grade musical program that many schools have used for decades. In the 90’s, I remember being a child who participated in this program. We talk about that song and discussed possible alternatives to that song. We also explore a question about how to build relationships and become friends with Native Americans in your community, whether they're students in your classroom, parents, community members, or Native artists that you want to bring to your classroom. 

Follow Us:

• Native American Curriculum Initiative Mailing List
• BYU ARTS Partnership Newsletter
• AdvancingArtsLeadership.com
• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts
• Subscribe on Spotify
• Subscribe on Amazon Music
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Pinterest

Don’t forget to peruse the bank of lesson plans produced by the BYU ARTS Partnership in dance, drama, music, visual arts, media arts, and more. Search by grade level, art form or subject area at www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons.

Episode Keywords:
Native American pedagogy and the arts, indigenous pedagogy, Native American lesson plans, authentic voice, Artful Teaching podcast, Native American, intuition, classroom, artist, indigenous pedagogy in the classroom, lesson plans, Native American, tribe, NACI authentic experience, teachers, culture keepers, share, curriculum, lessons

Episode Resources:

BYU ARTS Partnership YouTube channel

Amplify Native Voices PD Course

I Love the Mountains–Damen Doiya lesson plan

The Great American Bison lesson plan

General Native American lesson plans

Native American Curriculum Initiative Website
www.advancingartsleadership.com/naci

Native American Lesson Plans
www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons

About the BYU ARTS Partnership 
https://advancingartsleadership.com/node/66

Episode Notes:

Heather Francis: Welcome back to the Artful Teaching podcast. This episode includes recording with Brenda Beyal from the end of 2022. These recordings document and archive some of her wonderful thoughts about Native American curriculum and indigenous pedagogy and their relationship to arts education. In our last episode, Brenda talked about what indigenous pedagogy is and how it's connected to the arts and arts education. 

We asked her about the Native American Curriculum Initiative, who it benefits, and why teachers, administrators, parents, PTA members, and community leaders are interested in this work. We design arts-integrated lessons about Native American lived experiences and cultural practices and we do it with tribe approval. Brenda discusses why tribe approval is so important to all of the educational products that we develop. 

We do a lot of partner-building with tribal members and cultural representatives. We build partnerships with Native artists and personal contacts who have Native heritage. We have learned that a broad spectrum of different voices represent the Native American experience. In this episode, Brenda distinguishes between authentic Native Voices—culture bearers or knowledge keepers, who are the keepers of native knowledge—and official voices. Official voices are those that can officially speak for a tribal nation or Native group. 

 

“Who is NACI (or the Native American Curriculum Initiative) for?” Brenda invites Emily Soderborg, who is the NACI Project Coordinator, to answer this question. Emily is non-Native, and she speaks about her non-Native experience creating materials for the Native American Curriculum Initiative, and how the initiative has benefited her. Brenda adds her experience and how the vision of this initiative to amplify Native voices has benefited and impacted her in her own life. 

Brenda Beyal: The Native American Curriculum Initiative, otherwise known as NACI, is for non-Native and Native people alike. Emily, how do you feel like NACI has helped you as a teacher and an educator?

Emily Soderborg: Working with NACI has opened my eyes to so many new ways of seeing things and doing things. I feel more self-confident. I feel like I've been able to immerse myself more in understanding and sharing things in appropriate and accurate ways. I'm not Native, and I grew up with a lot of stereotypes in the learning that I was given. I think it's changed how I approach things and how I teach others around me. It's made me more empathetic and more willing to try new things.

Brenda Beyal: I think NACI is for Native teachers and Native people, because we strive to amplify our Native voice. Having that feeling of being recognized and acknowledged is a way of reconciling some of the hard struggles in the past that have been invisible to so many people. We as a group–especially Native Americans–have been invisible because of other people's stereotypes, or overgeneralization of culture. I feel like NACI just helps to bring greater authenticity to Native people in general. I think what we're doing with lesson plans, curriculum building, and resources is that we are helping students to see themselves within the curriculum. They can see themselves in the books that teachers read; non-Native children can have a window into other perspectives and ways of living and knowing and doing other than what they were raised with.

Emily Soderborg: What I have loved is that as we have worked with the eight sovereign nations, the biggest thing they say is, “We are still here. We want to be seen.” NACI is amplifying those voices. Students, teachers, and Native artists’ voices all matter: everyone has a voice, everyone has a right to be heard. As we work together, we can create awareness of others without lessening our own culture. NACI is for us all, so that we can all recognize how we can learn from others and how we can share with others.

Heather Francis: I would like to add my own voice to theirs and talk about the impact NACI has had on me. I am also non-Native. I'm very interested in other cultures, and I want to understand people with different experiences better. NACI has been really enlightening for me, because I didn't know very much about the Native American experience before this initiative. I've spoken in past episodes about some misconceptions about Native American experience and Native American people that I had in the past, when I was an educator. I think I shared the story of a student that I had in my dance class: I taught middle school and she was quiet in class, she didn't really like to move, and she seemed a little resistant. At an assembly, she performed a jingle dance with the Native American students at our school. I had no idea about her cultural experience that had this rich embodied movement practice. I felt sad that I hadn't known that information yet. I'm loving being a part of this initiative and learning from Brenda, Emily, our designers and our native partners. 

But I also want to add that this initiative has provided an emotionally safe place, because some cultural questions are very sensitive, and I am not sure if I'm asking the cultural questions correctly. I don't know if I'm even allowed to ask. Brenda, Cally, and the whole NACI team has developed an environment where no question is a bad question and where curiosity is applauded: every time I have a question, it's like, “Thank you for asking, I would love to clear that up. I'd love to tell you more.” That just feels really good. This initiative has provided a really safe place to ask hard questions, questions that are hard for me. If you're a teacher who's interested in learning more about the Native Americans, in your classroom and in your community, come join us for a workshop, come look at our lesson plans, email us, talk to Brenda—this is a really great place to ask your questions. Another great place to ask your questions is our online course, Amplify Native Voices, a one-credit PD course on Canvas—feel free to sign up. The next question is, “Why is tribal approval on our educational materials so important?”

Brenda Beyal: From the very beginning, when we started writing lesson plans, we knew that we wanted to go right to the source. We asked the question, “What would you like the children of Utah to know?” We went to the tribes, and we asked them these questions, all of the tribes gave us something different. When we wrote the lesson plans, it was important to us that we captured authentic voices. So, we went back to the tribes. We worked with them. We read the lessons. Every word was approved by the Native tribes and the reason why, when a teacher is teaching Damen Doiya (which is from the Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation), and they are teaching the song that has been approved to sing by the Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation, they can feel confident. If someone comes in and says, “I don't think this is appropriate for you to be singing this song,” the teacher can say, “I am using this lesson from this lesson plan, and right here, it shares the tribal seal. It shows that this lesson was developed in partnership with and in collaboration with the Northwestern Band of the Shoshone Nation. They reserve the right to be able to share this song with the children of Utah.” That says a lot: that shows that you are being sensitive, you are trying to be authentic and as accurate as possible, and you have given your due diligence to teaching indigenous content in such a way that you are creating an environment where you are being inclusive in an authentic manner.

Heather Francis: Like Brenda described, we spend a lot of time building relationships with our Native partners to make sure that they read every word of our educational products, that they approve, and that they confirm that it is the story they want shared about their tribe or their nation. As an educator, I love knowing that the tribes have approved this content—that approval does give me confidence. If you experience using one of these lesson plans and feel that confidence, we would love to hear about it! Please share your experience with us through email or social media. 

Brenda Beyal: In our work, we have included authentic voices, culture bearers and knowledge keepers, and official voices. There are distinct differences between these three:

• An authentic voice is someone who has that lived experience. I'm going to share the example of my husband: my husband has the lived experience of going to a Native American boarding school at the age of five. His voice is authentic in that experience. I cannot speak to that; I do not have an authentic voice about boarding schools, other than that I live with a man who has experienced some historical trauma. Lived experiences are authentic voices.
• Knowledge keepers and culture bearers are those within a tribe who are usually an elder (not always), but are people who have the responsibility of being knowledge keepers and teaching cultural ways to people. We have met with culture bearers and knowledge keepers.
• Official voices are people within the tribal community who can speak for the whole tribe. Usually it's a tribal council, a cultural specialist, or an education director. They are the ones who make a decision where they speak for everyone.

In our lesson plans, we have all three voices. We have authentic voices, which are those who can speak to lived experiences. We have knowledge keepers and cultural bearers. And, we have official voices. The tribal seal that is on our lesson plans is evidence of official voices. We do have general lesson plans where the official voice possibly could overlap with the authentic voice. Take, for instance, our Great American Bison. We have gone to authentic voices, knowledge keepers, and accurate, authentic sources. Because there are 574 recognized tribes in our country, and so many experienced the transcontinental railroad and its effect on the bison, it would be really hard to get an official voice. We do have lesson plans where we don't have an official voice. We call those our general lesson plans and you can find them all on our website.

Heather Francis: Stay tuned for next time when we look at Brenda's answers to the questions about why it's important to ask questions with genuine intent and to listen attentively. This is one of our guiding principles of the Native American Curriculum Initiative. She'll also talk about the importance of looking at multiple perspectives when studying history. We hope you have an artful day.

Native American Curriculum Initiative Website
www.advancingartsleadership.com/naci

Native American Lesson Plans
www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons

About the BYU ARTS Partnership 
https://advancingartsleadership.com/node/66

Follow Us:

• Native American Curriculum Initiative Mailing List
• BYU ARTS Partnership Newsletter
• AdvancingArtsLeadership.com
• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts
• Subscribe on Spotify
• Subscribe on Amazon Music
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Pinterest

Don’t forget to peruse the bank of lesson plans produced by the BYU ARTS Partnership in dance, drama, music, visual arts, media arts, and more. Search by grade level, art form or subject area at 

www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons

Heather Francis: What we have for you in this series is really special. At the end of 2022, we took Brenda Beyal into a studio to video record an interview. 

When Brenda presents for teachers, a whole flock of teachers gather around her at the end of her sessions. And, our sessions don't always end on time, because there's so much that Brenda has to share with teachers—teachers just keep raising their hands. They have so many questions. Even when the session is over, they don't leave without getting a chance to talk to Brenda face to face, one-on-one about their particular questions. She's really grown to be a thought leader in our community, and a great representative of many native and indigenous voices that are to be shared. She's an authentic voice. She is a Navajo/Diné woman. She is an educator of over 35 years, she has worked in educational and native communities for a really long time. You've heard her on the podcast before: she just has such a gentle, humble and genius way about her. 

We took Brenda to the studio and recorded her answering some questions that we thought would be really important to have documented and answered. These videos are now published on our YouTube channel.  Today, we're sharing two of the questions Brenda answered in the recording studio. 

1. What is indigenous pedagogy? 

2. How do the arts support indigenous pedagogy? 

Brenda and many of our NACI team members who design our tribe-approved lesson plans speak about the relationship between arts, arts, education, native culture, and native or indigenous pedagogy. Brenda gives a fabulous answer to that question in this episode. Let’s start with the first question that Brenda will answer: what is indigenous pedagogy?

Brenda Beyal: Indigenous pedagogy is a framework that uses cultural teachings of indigenous peoples. There are structures within that framework that can be used by teachers to help them to become more culturally responsive in their classrooms. 

One of the very first frameworks I can think of is storytelling, using story to help children learn a concept, or putting across an idea or even using story for correcting behavior. There are many ways that indigenous people use stories, but it is threaded throughout all of their cultural ways. 

Another I would say structure and indigenous pedagogy is place-based on the idea that you use the historical, the environmental, the cultural place from where students come from. To help teach content, another indigenous structure would be learning by doing, using all of your senses, to help you to learn things that you should be learning. Within that structure, you could have side-by-side coaching, you would have time when you are able to reflect and listen in such a way that it helps you to just learn and do. That's an indigenous structure. 

Another structure that I feel strongly about is that mistakes are to learn from and not to be graded on. 

Within all of these structures learning through collaboration is important. Indigenous pedagogy contains the idea that people have responsibilities within a group. As children learn, through play-space learning, through learning by mistake, side-coaching, all of those share the idea of collaborating and cooperating together.

Heather Francis: I want to recap and honor what Brenda recognized as part of indigenous pedagogy. She talks about how storytelling is a part of indigenous pedagogy and place-based learning where the historical, environmental, and cultural background of the students is used to help teach content in the classroom. She also talked about how indigenous pedagogy includes experiential learning, learning by doing, using all of your senses to help you learn. This includes side-by-side coaching, and I love how she focused on reflection and listening. 

Brenda is so good at modeling reflection and listening while sitting in Zoom meetings—I can just see her lying back in her chair and nodding her head and thoughtfully taking in what people are saying during conversation. She's so good at listening. 

I also love that mistakes are to be learned from and not to be graded on. And that indigenous pedagogy includes cooperative learning. Learning through collaboration with others and taking responsibility for the part you play in a group is important. These are all great examples of how a teacher, like she said, could be really culturally responsive in their classroom by including these indigenous pedagogical strategies. 

The next question that I asked Brenda is about the connection between the arts, arts education, and indigenous pedagogy. She actually uses all of these elements of indigenous pedagogy and uses storytelling to teach us about how the arts and these pedagogies are connected. I hope you enjoy this answer as well.

A previously recorded interview with Brenda Beyal, Heather Francis, and Cally Flox.

 

Brenda Beyal:The arts and indigenous pedagogy pair well, they tell hard stories. They reach children—the arts reach children—because the structures in the arts are so inviting. That's why our NACI program is a part of the BYU Arts Partnership. We went on a tour yesterday to an art department. As we were traveling through the different spaces within it, I noticed indigenous pedagogy just genuinely and authentically being used. We went into an art gallery, and it was a faculty art show. Each of the faculty members was telling a story through their art and through their medium. It started with maybe their own cultural story, their own historical way, or it was place-based in that environment. 

We went to another space. There were students who were doing printmaking; there was one student who had the same prints. There were just so many prints on her table. We asked her, what are you doing? And she said, I'm trying to get my print to look like this. Somewhere, she had a model, and someone had shown her, but now she was learning through her mistakes. She didn't stop. She just continued to learn. She was becoming resilient in her art. She was also learning by doing. Another place that we went, they were oil painting, and there was a still-life there. As the girl painted, she kept looking at the still life, looking at her colors. There was a teacher right there in the middle of the room who was right there, willing to side-coach, willing to model, and she was in a safe space where she could experiment and learn. I feel like the arts naturally have indigenous pedagogy embedded in them. 

Now, if you don't believe me, let's invite an artist in and see if my indigenous structures match up to what they were taught in their art form. So, Heather, can you come in? Can you tell me about your world of dance? And how you see indigenous pedagogy: side-by-side coaching, cooperative learning, learning by mistakes, that we learned from our mistakes?

Heather Francis: First, I want to point out, I think there's one more indigenous pedagogy that just happened, which is the inclusion of family.

Brenda Beyal: Intergenerational learning! Yes, definitely. Thank you for reminding me.

Heather Francis: We're not blood, but you, you are like my auntie. And now you are doing this with me? Yes, mentoring me, but also including me—thank you. In dance, there's lots of storytelling, we use movement to express what either happened, is happening, or what we hope will happen; or, how we're feeling, how we felt, or how we hope to feel. We use movement, which is very sensory. You talked about how indigenous pedagogy is embodied: it's learning by doing, it's using all your senses. So I include intuition, that sixth sense. When an artist is creating, they'll often get to a part in their process where they have a problem that they've identified: “Oh, I want it to be this way,” or, “ Oh, that didn't work out how I wanted.” You have to use your intuition to make the next right step. Sometimes it might be a tool you do know that a mentor taught you. Or, you might have to create it yourself. But you have the intuition to make that choice. The ability to make choices like that is something you learned as an artist. And what was another one? Oh, cooperative learning. There is lots of cooperation in dance, especially when you're dancing with a company. Or if you're co-choreographing, making the decisions with other people during productions, you have your lighting designers, stage set, costumes, programs, marketing—the whole production team has to cooperate together.

Brenda Beyal: So do you see how I feel like indigenous pedagogy pairs so well with the art forms? Absolutely. Can you tell me about this in your art form? Can you tell hard stories through dance?

Heather Francis:Oh, yes! We do tell hard stories through dance. I've seen women who've lost babies express their pain and grief. I've seen Native groups express the pain of land acquisition from outsiders. I've seen people express the pain of not being understood, feeling like an outsider. There are hard stories that the arts do tell. Some are narrative and tell hard stories that happened historically. And I've seen that in Australia, some Maori people did a dance that seemed….at least from my perspective; it's all about interpretation too, right? So they might have been having a great time, and I thought they weren't.

Brenda Beyal:But that's okay. Because you have different perspectives. Thank you for joining me. Our lesson plans are built on an indigenous pedagogy paired with the arts. There are many activities and art experiences that you can use to help your class become more culturally responsive. You can see them built into our lesson plans found on our website.

Heather Francis: There you have the first two questions and answers that Brenda recorded at the video studios last semester. I hope you learned something about indigenous pedagogy, that you got an opportunity to reflect on how you use indigenous pedagogy in your classroom. Thank you so much for joining us. Our next two episodes will be filled with more Questions and Answers from Brenda So, I look forward to sharing that information with you and hope you have an artful day.

Episode Summary

In this episode, Emily Soderborg shares her experiences attending the Bear Dance with her family on the Ute Mountain Ute Reservation. Emily shares what she learned about the White Mesa Community and their Bear Dance stories and traditions.

Episode Keywords:

Native American, classroom, arts, artists, teachers, culture, authentic voices, students, indigenous pedagogy, Native American art, Native American Curriculum Initiative, elementary arts education, fry bread, arts integration, Bear Dance, community, White Mesa Community, Native American pedagogy.

Native American Curriculum Initiative Website

www.advancingartsleadership.com/naci

Native American Lesson Plans

www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons

About the BYU ARTS Partnership 

https://advancingartsleadership.com/node/66

Follow Us:

• Native American Curriculum Initiative Mailing List
• BYU ARTS Partnership Newsletter
• AdvancingArtsLeadership.com
• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts
• Subscribe on Spotify
• Subscribe on Amazon Music
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Pinterest

Don’t forget to peruse the bank of lesson plans produced by the BYU ARTS Partnership in dance, drama, music, visual arts, media arts, and more. Search by grade-level, art form or subject area at www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons.

Episode Notes 

Cally Flox 

Welcome to the Artful Teaching podcast. We are back again in our Native American curriculum initiative series. Today we are talking to Emily Soderborg, who is one of the researchers and writers on our team as the project manager in the Native American curriculum initiative. As part of her research, Emily recently attended a Bear Dance, and she's here to share her story.

Emily Soderborg

The Bear Dance is done at different times of year with the different Ute nations. So just so people are aware, there are three federally recognized Ute nations. One of them is the Ute Indian Tribe of the Uintah and Ouray Reservation, sometimes also known as the Northern Ute. Then you have the Southern Ute, and then you have the Ute Mountain Ute. The Bear Dance travels from different communities. It starts in Randlett, in the Uintah area, and then it goes to Whiterocks, and then Fort Duschene. Then it goes down to Ignacio, in the Southern Ute area. Then it goes to Towaoc (toy-yak). In Towaoc, by that time, because they do the dances on different weekends, it's around June.

The dance is performed in sequential order. Each Bear Dance has its own Bear Dance chiefs. So not just one, but they have multiple chiefs that are in charge of knowing the songs of organizing the events. Out of those, each of them has specific people that sing different songs, but they also call it the Bear Dance circuit. Because the Ute people, no matter which nation they're from, some travel with and go to every single Bear Dance. They feel like the bear is actually traveling with the Bear Dance. As the dance is performed in Randlett, with the first thunder, the bear starts to wake up, the bear is growing, it's waking up—coming up out of hibernation. And it stems from this story. This is the story I heard. I talked to Jack Cantsee Jr., who is one of the White Mesa community’s Bear Dance Chiefs. He said, ‘There were two boys lost in the forest. A mother bear found them and she raised them. As they reached adulthood, she sent them back out. She taught them this dance. Then, they went and taught the dance to the communities that they were in.’ This is part of a ceremonial dance, but it's also a social dance. When the White Mesa Community was trying to figure out how they were going to fit their Bear Dance in with all of the other Bear Dances, they turned to their elders. This was Jack Cantsee Junior's grandpa and his great grandparents. They said, ‘We haven't had a chance to do our Bear Dance.’ As a community, they decided that their Bear Dance would be done in the fall, and instead of bringing the bear out of hibernation, their Bear Dance was to send positive energy with the bear to put it back to sleep as the last Bear Dance of the season. There are no Bear Dances from June until Labor Day. On Labor Day, I went down to witness the White Mesa community Bear Dance. They were sending the bear to go back to hibernate.

Heather Francis

Bear Dances only happen from September to June?

Emily Soderborg

No. They happen from the first thunder in the spring, which is usually March. So you have Randlett, Whiterocks, Duchesne, Ignacio and Towaoc. All five of those happen in the spring, in March, April, May, and June on different weekends. The White Mesa communities’ dance is on Labor Day weekend.

Heather Francis

There's a big break there in July and August. 

Brenda Beyal

My understanding is that there are times that the Bear Dance Chief decides whether the Bear Dance is going to be held or not.

Emily Soderborg

Yes. Jack Cantsee Jr. said that the Bear Dance chiefs, he, and three others decided to cancel the dance the first year of COVID, which they hadn't done in a really long time. Last year, they decided that it would only be Ute members of the White Mesa Community that were allowed to participate. It was very small. Prior to that, and then this year, for the first time in two years, the Bear Dance was open to the public: anyone was able to come and watch and participate. As I went down there, I didn't know exactly where I was going. I had talked to the education director, and I told her I was coming. She's the only one from the White Mesa Community that I've actually met in person. So I was going—not knowing where we were going. They just had big signs that said, ‘Bear Dance this way.’ So I just followed them. I was going partly because I was doing research. But I was also just going with my family over Labor Day weekend with my husband and my two little girls. We were giving our girls this opportunity to experience something new and different. Just because in my work with NACI, it's kind of changed the way I view things, I want to give my children more opportunities to see things through different perspectives. That's part of the reason we went. I had no idea where I was going, what I was doing, I just followed signs, because I knew that it was happening on Labor Day weekend. Thankfully, they didn't start on time, which happens as people are setting things up. I had 45 minutes to talk to Jack Cantsee Jr. I am not in any way, shape, or form an expert, I am just sharing my one experience talking with Jack Cantsee Jr. and then watching what was going on. He explains the dance. The Bear Dance is done in a corral that they've built. It's a round circle, with an opening facing the east. They framed the corral with wire, and leaned juniper trees up along the wire, all the way around this huge circle. Jack was telling me that as you enter from the east, and you go to the left, that that's like the circle of life. It is birth. As you get around to the back, directly across from the entrance, is the stand where the singers are singing with their notched sticks. They didn't use any drums, they were just using the notched sticks. That part of the circle represents adulthood. As the dance keeps traveling around, it goes to the elders. It's just this cycle of life happening. Being there and seeing the corral that they were in made me recognize this dance is a really, really simple dance. It's easy to do. But—the setting, and the symbolism can't be replicated without the Bear Dance chief. It can't be replicated without the tribal members building that corral and having those specific things in place. I recognize that, even though this dance might want to be replicated by teachers, because it is a very, very simple dance, it's just walking forward and backward—without the setting that it's in, it would totally change the feeling of the Bear Dance.

Heather Francis 

You had a family member who got to experience the Bear Dance?

Emily Soderborg

Yes. As I was talking with Jack Cantsee Jr., I was asking him, “So who is allowed to dance in this?” He said, “Well, anyone can dance.” But I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt because it was 103 degrees. It was really, really hot. He told me, “Well, you would need to be wearing a skirt. And you would need to have a shawl to be able to dance.” As a female, I wasn't participating. But, it is a female-driven dance. The females are the ones that ask the males to dance. Jack Cantsee Jr. said, “If your husband's here, he needs to be ready and willing to dance because if he gets asked, he can't say no.” It's just part of the dance that males have to dance. I asked Jack, “Do males need to wear something specific, like the females need to wear skirts and shawls?” He said, “The only stipulation is that he shouldn't be wearing shorts.” Well, my husband was wearing shorts. But since we'd stayed overnight, he actually had pants. I said, “Hey, would you be okay changing into pants in case anyone asks you to dance?” He changed and he was wearing pants. I had my five-year-old and my three-year-old, and we were just watching. We took our camp chairs with us. We had a big umbrella. We were just sitting. You just sit right on the edge of the corral. Most of the time, three or four women dancers would go ask men that were sitting in a certain area really near the singers to dance. But they did a special memorial dance for someone who had passed away. And Jack, who was one of the Bearer Dance chiefs, invited all of the women who were ready to dance to ask someone to dance. Then, 40 or 50 women were dancing instead of four or five. Almost every single male there was asked to dance. My husband got asked to dance. He went out, and they lined up men across from women. Then, there is someone who taps them on the shoulder. That tap tells him that he can break away from the lines, so he can start moving forward or backward. Thankfully, they actually did a song first with him just standing in line. My husband was able to watch. Since he was in the middle of the line he was actually able to watch as they were going back and forth. But he was happy to participate. He wasn't seeking out the opportunity to dance. But he was happy that he was able to be there and do it in the correct way. He knew that it was respectful to not say no, that he just joined in the dance when he was asked to dance. Jack was also telling me that even if I could dance, I wouldn't have been able to dance with my husband. The Bear Dance [is described as] a family dance. It's a way that they get to know other people. It's a social dance. The women are meeting with their aunties, their cousins. And they say, “Okay, I'm gonna go ask this man to dance.” And the women say, “Nope, you can't. That's your cousin, or that’s your uncle.” You can't dance with a male-person in your family, [but the dance is family oriented and] is a way of getting to know other people in the community.

Brenda Beyal

Emily, one of the questions that we ask teachers to ask themselves when they are looking at maybe a book or a resource that they want to share with their students is, “How will this enrich my students' understanding?” I want to ask you that question: how did this enrich your family's understanding? 

Emily Soderborg 

It was just incredible to be immersed in it, not just to watch it. Even though I wasn't dancing, I was still immersed in it. I got to watch how the families were interacting. I got to show my children how families were interacting. Witnessing the dance from a different point of view, I think, enriches our understanding that it's not all done the way that we think that it should be done. I was sitting next to a Navajo woman who was from the Blanding area, and she said, “Oh, I'm not going to dance. But I come every year, because I want to support them.” Recognizing that it wasn't all Utes there, that there were so many different people who were coming together. And she said, “I've missed it!” One of the reasons she wanted to come was for the feast—because the Bear Dance goes Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, they have it for four days. But on Monday, they have a feast that the White Mesa community shares with anyone who comes in. So she said, “I have missed their frybread and their beans! No one makes them quite like that.” Which was so fun. We didn't get to eat together because they still had COVID protocols. We had a drive-thru feast. We drove through, and they were giving us boxes of food, but they had meat and beans, fruit and corn, and frybread for anyone. It was free for anyone who was there. Applying this to things that I took away from this experience—Jack Cantsee Jr. was telling me how this feast was unique and special, just for the White Mesa community. All the bear dances are different. We can't assume that because a Bear Dance is done in Randlett that it's going to be the same in White Mesa. They did a special dance right before the feast. It was called the Frybread Dance. Jack said it was the mother bear trying to entice her two sons that she had raised—the human sons—back to her and so the dancers go around the entire corral with a piece of fry bread in their mouth, dancing with fry bread in their mouth, saying, “The feast is ready,” but it's also the mother bear trying to entice her her sons back with her because she missed them so much that she wants to be there with them. This story helps me recognize that, even within cultures, different communities have different stories. If I want to seek truth, I have to ask for multiple perspectives. I can't just say one person's story tells the whole story; it's one person's story tells that person’s story. That's why I'm excited about this. I'm going to be working on the white Mesa Community bear dance lesson plan. I'm not writing a Bear Dance lesson plan for all of the different communities. I'm focusing on the White Mesa community and telling that specific story.

There's a little tiny pocket that is the White Mesa Community that is reservation land, most of the Ute Mountain Ute land is actually in Colorado. There's just a little pocket right in between Blanding and Bluff that is also reservation land of the Ute Mountain Ute.

Heather Francis

I love it, you went to their space, to their land, to their experience that you were invited to. And really, really participated. I like hearing the story too, because all of our lesson plans that we've done have this kind of research involved where we're talking with partners, we're getting accurate, authentic voices we're visiting on reservation land. As a teacher listening to this, I'd be like, Wow, I don't have so many weekends to go out. But we do encourage teachers to seek out these experiences.

Brenda Beyal

Actually going and experiencing these kinds of activities will give you a new perspective on why, and maybe how, or they give you reasons that you can tell your children, that though the Bear Dance is a simple dance, it's a sacred dance: it should be done in a space that the Bear Dance Chiefs see that it should be done in. Not just, you know, anywhere and by anyone.

Emily Soderborg

Jack Cantsee Jr. had gone to Blanding Elementary, the week before, because on the Friday of the bear dance, they actually bussed students to the corral that were not Ute. They bussed the students there so that they could participate in the Bear Dance. Jack had talked with them. I'm teaching them what the bear dance was meant for, but also the need to be respectful. One of the stories he did tell me is that there was a little boy who was goofing off, and he fell down. And he pulled his partner down while they were dancing. They stopped everything. They stopped the music, they went and they blessed that boy and that girl, they drew a circle around them, and they wouldn't let them stand up until they had finished blessing them with the instruments, because they wanted them to recognize that anytime anyone falls down during the Bear Dance. They wanted them to recognize the significance of being respectful, and of helping the person that you're dancing with. Because one person is constantly walking backwards, and you switch off, one person is walking forwards while the others are walking backwards and then the other way. They brought it into the community—they brought them to their Bear Dance corral, to dance there. They didn't just go dance at the elementary school, they brought them there to have helped them have that experience there.

Cally Flox 

There are local opportunities for teachers to experience Native American dances at powwows. There are many powwows available. Teachers, don't get discouraged when you can't travel to specific pieces. Enjoy what we have in our own communities and find a close by powwow and start there. Emily, thanks so much for sharing your story today. Do we have any final comments?

Emily Soderborg

I just thought it was so fun. I'm glad that I'm able to share the joy that I had in learning more that it's not just research, like book research, but it's in-person research and talking to people and going and doing things I've never done before and not being afraid of trying something new because I get scared doing things but I it was it was great.

Heather Francis

I love that you didn't even know Jack Cantsee Jr. You didn't even know him. But you met him and you took the opportunity. It seems like he enjoyed talking to you too. You weren't interrupting his space or time but you were acknowledging and honoring him by letting him tell you the stories that he told you.

Brenda Beyal

Yes. One thing that really interested me is that Emily is somebody that's on time all the time. If it starts at three, she's there five minutes till three, or before three. She's somebody that keeps me on time. But she's learning that time doesn't always have to be linear, that time can be circular. There's such a thing as circle time with Native American people. We start when we're ready to start. We finish when we're ready to finish—when everything has been accomplished, rather than saying, “We're starting at eight and ending at nine.” Because she was in the White Mesa community space, Emily honored it. Because her husband said, “We've got to be there, we're going to be late.” Emily said, “No, it's okay. We'll get there when we get there.” Because as soon as she knew she was entering into the White Mesa community, she was on circle time—which means we start when we start, and we don't finish until everything is completed. Because she was willing to be on that circle time, she was able to meet with Jack Cantsee Jr. and she was able to spend 45 minutes. And this isn't because Emily Soderborg was coming and therefore we're going to hold off for 45 minutes. It's just the way it happened. For Jack Cantsee, having somebody interested in what he had to say was as important to him as it was for Emily. I know that because he wouldn't have spent all of that time unless he felt like there was something he needed to say, because he is one of the Bear Dance chiefs down in that community.

Cally Flox 

Thank you for joining us on this episode of artful teaching. We wish you joyful learning and artful days. 

Brenda Beyal

Thanks to James Huston for editing this podcast. Music was generously provided by Connor Chee, a Navajo Diné composer and performer.

Cally Flox 

Special thanks to all of the teachers who are changing lives every day while serving in schools. 
Wishing you an artful journey.

Listen to the Utah Teacher Fellows podcast. We explore the greatness of the profession through individual teacher stories. Join Audryn Damron and Ryan Rarick as they speak to teachers and teacher leaders throughout the state. Recent episodes include Audryn explaining her decision to run for state school board. KaceeWeaver, a teacher in the Ogden School District, spoke about the rooms full of human potential she encounters as a kindergarten teacher. And coming this month we speak with Marley Mclune about overcoming impostor syndrome and how she strives to own her own greatness. We love discussing a wide array of complex issues that make up the teaching profession. We also would love to engage with our audience. Check our show notes for our email address where you can submit mailbag questions that we will discuss in future episodes. Find the Utah Teacher Fellows podcast at theutahteacher.com or on any major podcasting platform such as iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, Amazon, and Stitcher.

In this episode, Brenda Beyal and members of the Native American Curriculum Initiative team offer ideas for supporting Native families' connections to schools. This conversation responds to several questions submitted by a teacher who desires to help Native families find a cultural space in their school district.

Native American Curriculum Initiative Website
www.advancingartsleadership.com/naci

Native American Lesson Plans
www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons

About the BYU ARTS Partnership 
https://advancingartsleadership.com/node/66

Episode Keywords:

families, monthly meeting, people, Native American, teachers, education, arts-integrated education, school, curriculum, trauma, Native, experiences, salt lake city, lesson plans, Paiute, title, boarding school, Utah teachers, Native teaching artists,  Utah, community

Episode Notes:

Heather Francis 
Welcome to the Artful Teaching Podcast. Our guests, Brenda Beyal and Emily Soderborg, are here with us. They are the program coordinator and project manager of our Native American Curriculum Initiative. Today, Brenda is answering questions that teachers have submitted about including native content in the classroom. The question we have for this discussion comes from a high school social studies teacher in the Salt Lake City School District. This teacher is aware of the Title VI Native American parent committee that meets monthly, but is concerned that they don't have a lot of attendance. They're struggling with funding and staffing and advocate positions and wants to offer more at the meeting to encourage attendance and engagement. I think the teachers’ main question is, “Is there information or curriculum that I can bring to this parent committee to enhance engagement?” What are your ideas, Brenda, for connecting Native families with a cultural space that connects them with their schools?

Brenda Beyal
This is a really good question, because we are all about creating curriculum, and I'm hoping that Emily will help me with that particular part. The Title VI program is a fantastic program. It’s a federal program specifically to help Native American families connect or reconnect to school, culture, and language. Every district in the state of Utah should have a Title VI coordinator. The Title VI coordinators are the key to bringing families to monthly meetings and it's exciting because there are a couple of things that you can think about when thinking about Native American families. Many times we think that the Native American family should leave their children at home. But in indigenous culture, we take our children with us everywhere. We take them to the powwows, we take them to go eat dinner with us, we do everything with our children. We even go to dances with our children, you know, pack them with us and have them dance and play with us while we also enjoy ourselves. It is definitely a family event. So looking at it as a family event and seeing the positivity of intergenerational relationships would be an important component that needs to be acknowledged and validated. A monthly meeting definitely should include multiple generations. You know, food always brings people together and we can learn a lot from one another.

Salt Lake City is home to many different indigenous people that come from differing tribal nations across the United States. I am just thinking in my mind right now, friends of mine in Salt Lake, some of them are Diné, which is Navajo. Some of them are Hopi. Some of them are Ute. Some of them are Choctaw. Some of them are Lumbee. I have friends who are Paiute, who live in Salt Lake City and Goshute. Bringing those families together and helping them to understand that community is also about learning about one another's culture within Indian country. I think that another way of helping families come together is maybe connecting with different organizations within Salt Lake City. The Urban Indian Walking Center has wonderful resources, and they honor multigenerational families, they honor traditional ways and learn from them. Partnering with them might be a good thing to do. Having a meeting at their center might be a good place to start. I know that the Red Butte Garden has wonderful classes and wonderful programs that welcome indigenous communities. The Museum of Natural History also is very welcoming. Those are just a few off the top of my head that I can think of.

Cally Flox 
A lot of times when we bring people in the community together, people don't know how to serve or what they have to contribute. I'm wondering if when these families are brought together, the question can be asked: “Who are you and what do you have to offer? You're an important member of this community, do you have skills or stories or things that you can bring into the school and get to know people?” I wonder if they shared our lesson plans on our website or if they shared the Utah artist roster, and it gave people a vision of, “Oh, you mean people want to learn those stories?” “Oh, my grandmother sang me that song” “Oh, I know that person on the artist roster, maybe I have something to offer.” Perhaps sharing the resources that we've offered to teachers with the parents and families will help inspire them to realize they have indigenous art forms happening right within their own families. They have their own stories, their own oral traditions, and they may have some wonderful things to offer their school community.

Brenda Beyal
Tying it to culture, I think is important. Coming together as Indigenous people is always such a good feeling, especially if you're far away from ancestral homes. I really like that idea, Cally. When I was teaching school—many, many years ago—Eileen Quintana showed up in my classroom, and she introduced herself as the Title VI coordinator. As she helped me learn about Title VI, and the impact it can have on Native children, and Native families within our district, I became excited. Now Eileen’s office–she didn't have an office…she was hired as a Native American program manager of Title VI, so her office was in the trunk of her car. And maybe that was a good thing because what she did is she started traveling from school to school and the first people I think she sought out were Native teachers within the community, and within our district. When she told me about what she wanted to do, I was on board, I wanted to participate. She gathered a few core groups of people who have the same vision and passion and through the years has built an amazing program for the Nebo School District.

I want to go back to the part where the meetings are poorly attended by the Native American parent committee. I want to offer another lens into why that might be happening. My husband had to go to boarding school when he was in Kindergarten. He went to boarding school, the first couple of years of his schooling and his experience has been something that he's had to deal with for many, many years. Knowing this, I realized that maybe there are children whose parents or grandparents are products of boarding school experiences, and therefore may have reactions or may not see school as a welcoming place. If you look at boarding school history, there are some, I'm sure, who thrived. But there are many who could not speak their language, who had their hair cut, and their way of living just completely constrained; they were no longer able to be the person that they wanted to be. Some of these experiences have possibly created behaviors, such as not liking being in a school environment. I think I would say, taking the time to look beyond that they're not coming to monthly meetings, maybe looking to see that there can be some historical trauma that might be impeding their willingness to come into a school would be beneficial. So, how about holding a monthly meeting or trying to hold a monthly meeting somewhere else, other than in a school?

Cally Flox
I think to help our listeners really understand the depth of what you're saying, Brenda, it's important to recall a phrase that was common in that day and age, which is, “Kill the Indian, save the man.” When we can put it into the blunt terms of what the thinking was of those leaders—those leaders thought they were to assimilate the Native Americans into white culture. And they did set out to annihilate everything about them that was Native American, or Shoshone, or Paiute, or Ute. That kind of systemic trauma leaves very deep wounds and scars and when people don't know their personal identity and when they're shamed for their personal identity, that is a deep-rooted kind of trauma that requires awareness. Where you were using careful language, I wanted to bring that phrase back into people's awareness: “Kill the Indian, save the man.”

Brenda Beyal
Thank you, Cally. General Richard Pratt is the one who said that. Native American people were taken from their families, specifically. I think I should ask Stephanie to give us what she's learned about boarding schools, or give us a little history of it.

Stephanie West
I don't have a lot of specific knowledge about boarding schools, so I can tell you some of the conversations that we've had with the native groups here in Utah, and I think it's a lot more individual perspectives. When we talked with the Paiute, Indian tribe of Utah, that was a very sensitive topic for them. It is a trauma for them, it's been a major trauma. I think that there are many individuals who, and even talking with the Navajo Nation about their experiences, they look back at them and they see that this was a tearing apart of families. Families were so integral to Native populations, to indigenous beliefs about themselves, their culture, and their connection to the land. It tore them away from their homes, it tore them away from their land and their communities, and so that's a lot of the trauma that's associated with that. However, there were multiple different perspectives. When we talked to the Confederated Tribes of the Goshute reservation about their experiences, some of them had somewhat positive perspectives on this. They said that they did have some positive experiences that came about because of that. I think it's important when we look at that, to recognize the trauma and recognize that everyone had different experiences. That definitely is probably affecting some of the families’ views and their ability to connect now with education, and with their schools, and the school community.

Cally Flox
Those are wonderful insights about why people might feel alienated from our schools. We've shared earlier about the wonderful curriculum that we have to offer. Does someone have a concluding statement?

Emily Soderborg
They talked about curriculum, wanting to know about curriculum. I just wanted to say that our curriculum, even though it is an elementary focus, so much of it can be used with any age level, it just takes a teeny bit of adapting. It can be used with families. So if you're doing The Great American Bison Lesson Plan, you can have families come together and create artwork at the same time. Or you could have families coming together to learn a song and how it connects with other songs in other cultures. I know the Title VI program in Nebo, because that's where I live. Right now their students are performing a play that they're doing at the Jim Matheson Courthouse. They're using the arts to then bring families together and they connect together through the arts.

Heather Francis
In this question, the teacher had asked about supporting Title VI initiatives with non-Native teachers. Our lesson plans are made for non-Native teachers to include native content in the classroom. So that would be totally appropriate, right?

Brenda Beyal
It would be appropriate. Obviously, you would hope that you could find Native people within the community that could partner with the non-Native teacher, because I think there's always good side-by-side coaching and they see two different perspectives, and I think that it’s good for our students.

Cally Flox
Super. Thanks for joining us, everybody, and we'll look forward to seeing you next time. Artful Teaching is made possible by the BYU Arts Partnership in the McKay School of Education.

Brenda Beyal
Thanks to James Huston for editing this podcast. Music was generously provided by Connor Chee, a Navajo Diné composer and performer.

Cally Flox 
Special thanks to all of the teachers who are changing lives every day while serving in schools.

Heather Francis
If you liked what you heard, please leave us a review. You can find all the show notes for this episode and more resources at advancingartsleadership.com. 

And don't forget to check out our tribe approved lesson plans on the website as well.

We wish you an artful journey!

Follow Us:

• Native American Curriculum Initiative Mailing List
• BYU ARTS Partnership Newsletter
• AdvancingArtsLeadership.com
• Subscribe on Apple Podcasts
• Subscribe on Spotify
• Subscribe on Amazon Music 
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Pinterest

Don’t forget to peruse the bank of lesson plans produced by the BYU ARTS Partnership in dance, drama, music, visual arts, media arts, and more. Search by grade level, art form or subject area at www.education.byu.edu/arts/lessons.

Brenda Beyal and members of the Native American Curriculum Initiative team answer teachers questions about Native content in the classroom. In this episode, the question is "I want to teach Native American art projects but don’t want to appropriate. Any tips on this? Also, do you know of any Native Americans near Utah county that would be willing to come to my classroom?"

Transcript coming soon.