Audio Branding

“[What] a lot of sonic branding agencies aren’t aware of is that sonic branding can also be used as a tool to address a concern that the client might have. So, for example, a new competitor has come in and now they feel dated. Okay, let’s write a sonic branding that’s based around being modern. Okay, they’ve had a big knock on trust, like I mentioned before, with a data breach. This is a great opportunity to write a sonic branding that builds customer trust. So, it can be used as another mode along with your visuals, along with your tone of voice. Your branding tone of voice is in, like, the words that are spoken, not the like the language, right? It’s a tool to convey your brand.” – Dr. Thomas Dickson

This episode is the second half of my conversation with musicologist and sonic branding strategist Dr. Thomas Dickson as he shares his thoughts on maintaining a long-term branding, the growing use of AI for everything from monitoring to mock-ups, and the versatility of an effective sonic logo.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:01) - Impact of Sonic Branding Variations

My conversation with Dr. Dickson picks up as we talk about the challenge of maintaining a consistent audio brand through changing management and brand strategies. “They might not even have been strategically sonic branding,” he notes. “It could have just been some brand music that they turned into a mnemonic or brand music they’ve just been using for years, and then a brand manager will come in and just throw out everything.” He points out McDonald’s as a prime example of an audio brand that’s only gotten stronger over the past twenty-five years, and how consistency has been its key to success. “It’s a really good case study for sonic branding agencies to look at,” he says, “how you can take a mnemonic [and] use it in, there’s videos on YouTube where it’s, like, using like thirty different contexts, and it’s just changed instrumentation slightly, changed the speed, [and] added swing .”

(0:07:38) - Sonic Branding Evolution and Impact

Dr. Dickson tells us about his worth with agencies that are increasingly turning to AI for solutions, especially when it comes to catching online plagiarism. “They are using AI to identify melodies that are shared and then taking them to court once the melody’s been used sufficiently,” he cautions. “Day one, a song comes out, they don’t take them to court. They wait till the song is a massive hit and it’s got enough revenue, and then they take them to court.” We discuss AI’s growing presence in everything from audio mastering and editing to generating new music, and he points out some of the roles he sees it filling over time. “I’m imagining in the future there will be the option to take a track,” he explains, “and then just [have AI] re-tailor it to that context and stretch it out so that, for the conference that goes for two hours, there’s appropriate backing music based on your sonic branding.”

(0:16:24) - Future of Sonic Branding Tools

As our conversation wraps up, Dr. Dickson emphasizes the cost-benefit ratio of sonic branding compared to other forms of marketing, and its potential for building brand awareness. “I think the thing I would push is the value for money argument,” he says, “that it is very affordable for an asset they’re going to use for a very long time.” We talk about the increasingly fierce competition among brands and agencies looking to grow their online presence, and the dangers of being left behind in an increasingly digital world. “The big thing as well is all of this is in the context of digital media,” he tells us. “So we are seeing more clients get work from TikTok, Facebook in particular, and Instagram in particular, and YouTube. If you’re not using multimedia on a multimedia platform, you’re falling behind.”

Episode Summary

• Sonic branding in advertising and its evolution from traditional jingles to social media.
• The growing role of AI in audio branding, its limitations, and how it might evolve.
• How AI enhances branding and enables a more flexible, enduring marketing strategy.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

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Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“If you imagine a company has a ten million dollar marketing budget, right? And then you imagine they have a sonic logo on every single TikTok ad, Facebook ad, YouTube ad, all these new media where the majority of the traffic’s coming from now. If they can increase conversion rates marginally, they can have a huge difference to their bottom line. And it’s one of those things where, because sonic branding, once it’s done, once, and, well, yes, there might be a brand refresh where it’s changed in ten years, um, or it’s updated, or maybe it’s changed slightly to work with a different culture, right? There might be like a version which sounds slightly more Canadian, right? Or more Christmasy, or things like that. But the point being is this is an asset that they develop once, and then it can be used on these campaigns that can have huge advertising budgets, which makes it very cheap when you compare it to the actual campaign marketing spend.” – Dr. Thomas Dickson

My guest on this episode is a musicologist who specializes in how we perceive sound and how it shapes brand communication. With a PhD in Music Psychology, he helps brands create emotionally resonant and research-backed sonic identities. His work reduces subjectivity, improves creative decisions, and even addresses legal risks like plagiarism in audio branding.

His name is Dr. Thomas Dickson, and he’s advised national retailers, tech firms, and service brands throughout his career. And, as if the subject of musicology isn’t fascinating enough, we’ll also be discussing how businesses can make sure their sound stays original and protected.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Sound in Advertising

Our discussion begins with a look back at Dr. Dickson’s early memories of sound, and he came prepared with a more recent, but still memorable, experience that demonstrated the power of sound. “By the grand finale,” he recalls as he describes an outdoor concert featuring the Melbourne Symphonic Orchestra, “it’s a bucketing down, raining and everyone’s still there. So we’ve got this huge event, it’s bucketing down, raining, [and] no one’s leaving because they want to hear the finale.” He tells us more about musicology, what it means, and how it can help build a stronger brand. “Musicology is like the academic and rigorous study of music,” he explains. “It comes down to a broad range of different styles, so this could be like music history, it could be music psychology, which is what I looked at, the psychology of music or sound, [or] it could be ethnomusicology.”

(0:09:05) - Musicology and Plagiarism in Sonic Branding

Dr. Dickson tells us about the different dimensions of musicology and how sound influences us, such as musical expectancy and episodic memory, and how much our impression of sound comes from the media we consume. “We have cultural norms associated with electronic music,” he explains, “digital sounds, hard hitting bass, all that kind of stuff that we associate with that through repeated exposure with these sounds, with those kinds of branding pillars.” He shares an example of a client who sought his help with finding the right branding voice, and he shares some of the unexpected legal risks that can arise when an audio brand campaign’s trying to sound familiar but not too familiar. “The last thing you want to do,” he tells us, “is compose something that doesn’t really suit the brief that you thought did, but you also don’t want to end up with something that’s derivative of another work.”

(0:19:02) - Implementing Sound Design in Sonic Branding

As we reach the first half of our conversation, Dr. Dickson talks about the strengths and limitations of a sonic brand, and how music can fill in the emotional gaps to build a stronger brand. “That’s not going to have much emotion conveyed in it,” he says of an audio logo, “whereas if you are to pitch, tune that, so make it turn into a melody... there’s opportunity to get both the distinctive asset and also an opportunity to convey, you know, music and emotion.” He shows an effective sonic brand can be one of the most cost-effective approaches to marketing, and we talk about the perils of trying to use stock music rather than a distinctive audio brand. “I have witnessed the phenomenon of different advertising using the same song,” Dr. Dickson tells us. “So anything from a car company to a gardening company, to, like, a food item and then a shoe, you know, and they’re all using that same sound.”

Episode Summary

• Dr. Dickson shares his passion for music and his academic journey in musicology.
• How musicology and audio branding intersect to build an emotional brand connection.
• The power of an effective sonic branding campaign vs traditional advertising.

Be sure to tune in for next week’s episode as Dr. Dickson and I discuss the balancing act of audio branding and changing management, how the growing competition between sonic brands might lead to legal challenges, and the role AI has already begun to play in uncovering musical plagiarism.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

Watch the Audio Branding Podcast on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiKrangleVO

Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“And they had people that had either the escalator going up on the right-hand side or you could take the stairs, and each stair played a different key on the piano. More people took the stairs than they did the escalators because it was more fun. So, they did something they hadn't done before that was better for them. So, it all wraps up beautifully, and was such a fun campaign. And again, it didn't have to cost a lot of money. They didn't do many of those piano stairs. And it's that old thing, or the new thing that we try and do now, [which] is ‘experienced by few, seen by many.’ And you see it all the time, you know, you do one small little activation that really doesn't have to cost a lot of money, but you film it beautifully, put a good track to it, you make sure it gets shared correctly. And all of a sudden, you've got a hit.” – Darren Borrino

This episode is the second half of my conversation with executive creative director of Inkfish NYC Darren Borrino as we talk about building the foundation of an effective sonic brand, how digital tools and the internet age have redefined the strategies, development, and time frame of an ad campaign, and the growing value of authenticity in a world where AI content is becoming the norm.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - Global Advertising Culture Differences and Campaigns

The second half of our conversation begins as Darren and I talk about his work all around the world, from his home in South Africa to Prague, Australia, and eventually the U.S. “The biggest culture shock I got was actually coming to New York,” he says. “Although I'm South African, my parents are British, so I was brought up on British comedy like quite sarcastic, quite dry, quite undertone.” We discuss the one ad campaign he wishes he’d written, and an inventively musical approach Denmark took to encouraging drivers to slow down: a melody based on the driver’s speed. “If you went too fast, it became annoying,” he explains. “We've all had kids in the car before. Everybody wants to slow down and just enjoy it, and there's no reason to race. So you may as well just enjoy the track.

(0:05:20) - Innovative Sound Marketing Campaigns

We talk about what’s changed in the advertising world in recent years, and how even a seemingly successful marketing strategy can have unintended consequences for a brand. “That's going to reposition the brand in the market,” he tells us. “But if you don't have a full perspective of where everything is, you could accidentally position that brand right next to a competitor that will easily outspend them.” Darren talks about the impact of such AI tools as Midjourney in his agency, its uses and limitations, and the unlikely sounds of inspiration all around us “I can guarantee you nine times out of ten,” he says, “it's when you're cycling home, or when you're washing your dog at home, or you're out with a friend having coffee. You'll see something happen, you'll go, ‘wait a minute. That's smart. The way that woman spoke to her dog is exactly what we need to be doing for this brand.’”

(0:16:27) - The Future of Creative Marketing

Our discussion concludes as Darren reflects on the fast pace of content development in the 21st century, and how it’s led to a very different tone than ad campaigns in the past. “I think the problem with that is that you get a lot of surface-level thinking,” he notes. “You can only go so deep with the time that you have, and I think that's why you see commercials generally these days are um, it's either got a pun in the headline or… you throw a celebrity in there, it's got a big track, or it's got a new visual effect, or something like that. It's not really deep thinking.” He shares some of his upcoming projects, including a new AI that adopts its persona to forge a personal connection with each user. “It obviously understands everything about the brand and its products,” he says. “But it brings in a third dimension. It helps you understand yourself a little more as a consumer, so it's got emotional intelligence built into it.

Episode Summary

• Darren’s cosmopolitan approach to tailoring strategies for different regional markets.
• How sound shapes consumer behavior, from climate awareness to safer driving.
• Darren’s advice to 21st-century creatives, and his latest, AI-driven campaign work.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

Watch the Audio Branding Podcast on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiKrangleVO

Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“If you're going to be doing a commercial, for example, for BMW, where people are spending a lot of money on a Seven Series and it's a luxury car, but then you hear the TV ad or the radio ad or wherever you're listening, and that sound isn't recorded at the highest quality. Like, your logical mind might not pick it up, but if it sounds a little tinny or it's too much of an echo, you pick that up, and that really does build into the overall feeling of the brand in terms of quality. There was an interesting example with Nissan. They launched one of the first electric vehicles a long time ago, and when they put it out into the market, they found that people felt that maybe it was a little flimsy, it didn't feel quite right, like, well made. So obviously they went in to fix their upholstery, and they started making things a little more high quality, and consumers are still saying, ‘I don't know what it is, there's something about this, it just doesn't feel like a quality vehicle.’ And what they did was they changed the audio. Through the speakers in the car, when you start it up, it will make a fake sound of the car starting up. And, all of a sudden, people are like, ‘ah, now it feels like a car.’” – Darren Borrino

This week’s guest is an art director at heart and an ECD-level creative with over twenty years experience, working all across the globe. He’s led teams at some of the world’s top agencies, such as TBWA, DDB, and Saatchi & Saatchi, and has won multiple awards for his work. He launched Inkfish, a boutique agency in New York that helps smaller challenger brands take on the big guys with sharper strategy, more disruptive creative, and budgets that go into the work, not overheads. He’s endlessly curious about what persuades the human mind, loves ideas that actually land, and believes that the best work comes from collaboration and clarity, as well as a healthy sense of humor.

His name is Darren Borrino, and in this episode, we’ll be discussing how companies can shake things up using sound, the difference between clever and persuasive, and how to stay relevant in a changing ad world – especially in the age of AI. Stay tuned for a Masterclass in being different!

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Sound in Advertising

We start off our discussion with Darren’s childhood impressions of sound, which include the Universal audio logo when he and his dad used to watch movies. “You'd made it home, you'd finished everything you wanted to do,” he says, “and you could sort of relax with a little bit of popcorn and maybe watch a movie and just take it easy. So that was probably the first time.” Our discussion turns to audio branding in the age of social media, and just how quickly things move today – especially audience attention. “People switch off very quickly,” Darren explains. “So you need to make sure you have a brand that has the right qualities, and then you match that with the right voice to bring that to life.”

(0:12:18) - Building Brand Trust Through Audio Consistency

Darren and I talk about sound’s power to quickly grab and hold the listener’s attention, and how that can be a double-edged sword when it comes to branding. “The problem with that,” he explains, “is if you're paying attention to the voice or the quality of the voice, or the sound or the sound effects, or the mix or whatever it is, then you're not paying attention to what I'm trying to tell you.” He explains the difference between clever and persuasive approaches, and warns against ad campaigns that can become too clever for their own good. “It's very important to keep a consistent brand,” he adds, “a consistent tone of voice, keep it really simple and make it reliable, and that's how you build trust.”

(0:22:26) - The Impact of Sound in Advertising

As we wrap up the first half of our conversation, Darren talks about the risks of over-planning and overproducing an ad campaign, and he shares some examples of effective campaigns that came together in more organic ways. “The best thing you can do,” he explains, “is [to] literally take that idea and go sit with a voiceover artist, or a weird creative or a musician, and just say ‘Here's the idea. Let's just throw some stuff around, let's just record whatever we're doing, let's have fun with it.’” He recalls his work with VistaPrint’s memorable “Unregiftable” campaign, and a compelling example from the Nissan Leaf of how sound shapes consumer expectations. “What they did,” he recalls, “was they changed the audio through the speakers in the car. When you start it up, it would make a fake sound of the car starting up. And all of a sudden people like, ‘Ah, now it feels like a car.’”

Episode Summary

• Sound's emotional power in branding and how it deepens an audience’s connection.
• How Darren’s work with markets around the world have shaped his perspective.
• The power of sound in marketing campaigns and shaping the consumer’s experience.

Be sure to tune in for next week’s episode as Darren talks about his advertising work around the world, from Prague to Sydney, the impact that AI and content creation tools like Midjourney have made on the advertising industry, and his advice to young creatives starting out in the digital age.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

Watch the Audio Branding Podcast on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiKrangleVO

Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“The brief was ‘we want to sell some more train tickets to Germany, where you can go to Berlin for a techno party, you can go to Hamburg for the opera, have a famous opera in Hamburg, or you can go to Munich for the beer festival.’ And we made this audio journey with sound, and you definitely can hear, ah, now we’re in Berlin, it’s the opera, and now we go to Munich. So yeah, we can play with that. And the client just also loved the idea. It takes two to tango, as you say, the client also needs to value and understand if you want the effect of this. You need to work with this in an ambitious and professional way.” – Karsten Kjems

This episode is the second half of my conversation with audio branding specialist and founder and CEO of Sonic Minds Karsten Kjems, as we talk about the surprising value of silence in sound design, why familiarity doesn’t always breed contempt when it comes to sonic logos, and what it means to be a musician in a world where both instruments and vocals can come from a laptop.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Sound Design

As the second half of our conversation starts, Karsten points out how effective sound design isn’t always intuitive, and that less is sometimes more. “I’ve played some gigs, sometimes for a reception,” he says, “and people were just talking and talking, and they didn’t listen to the music at all. But then suddenly if we start to play really soft, then people go, ‘oh, I think the band is playing.’” He adds that sonic interfaces today are, in some ways, reminiscent of the early days of web design. “In the old days, they had flashes and everything moving,” he recalls. “You know, now we just go back to ‘give me a simple burger menu,’ ‘click contact,’ or whatever. User usability is also very important.”

(0:06:41) - The Evolution of Sound Design

Our discussion turns to audio marketing, and Karsten points out how much of effective sonic branding depends on the demographics. “There has actually been a study for that, that shows that we create our musical preference, I think, when it’s between we are 17 and 21,” he says. “We’re about to get the first boyfriend or girlfriend, moving away from home, these really high peak moments in our lives.” We talk about AI in sound, and the direction he sees it taking in the industry. “It’s just like when the sampler came out,” he recalls. “’What should drummers do?’ And now the drummer plays on top of samplers, so every drummer has a sampler or a drum machine next to him, so he uses it as a tool.”

(0:20:22) - Quality Sound Design

As our conversation comes to a close, we talk more about the role of shifting demographics in sound design and how they impact not just relatability but the user’s experience. “If you’re having hearing loss or having, you know, difficult hearing,” Karsten notes, “then you don’t want products that really annoy you. You want to be able to understand them.” He shares some of his thoughts on the future of audio UX, and how his country’s leading the way in sonic branding. “Denmark is actually with sound what Swiss is with watches,” he adds. “For some reason, it’s a hot spot within audio engineering and sound. So I think we should keep that position as one of our trademarks in Denmark.”

Episode Summary

• Effectively utilizing silence in sound design and the evolving role of spatial sound.
• The challenge of re-imagining traditional audio approaches in the digital era.
• AI’s role in sound and how technology has redefined what it means to be a musician.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

Watch the Audio Branding Podcast on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiKrangleVO

Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“If you can see that your product is selling better with better sounds, and it gets better reviews Actually, I saw a car review that scored the car better just because the sounds were better. He didn’t talk about how fast it could go, how fast it could brake or how many airbags, he talked about the user experience. A car today is a driving iPad on wheels. So, all these sounds here, I got so stressed from these beeps and boops, suddenly it was too close to the edge, or too close to that... sometimes there wasn’t even a thing, and it just starts to, what was that? Was a fly running through the camera? What was it? So, I think it’s so important that we also choose brands and products with our ears as well with our eyes, and also with our wallets.” – Karsten Kjems

This episode’s guest was raised in a musical home with a studio in the basement. He began drumming professionally at 23, and his passion for sound design and early use of digital audio tools like ProTracker on the Amiga shaped his approach to music and technology. While working at a branding agency, he noticed companies struggling to define their sonic identity, leading him to launch one of the first strategic audio branding agencies, Sonic Minds, in 2004. Today, he’s a recognized expert in the field, frequently speaking and teaching about sound design.

His name is Karsten Kjems, and you’ll want to hear more about his perspective on brand sounds, why he believes audio branding to be so important, and what sets good and bad sound apart. If you’re still on the fence about audio branding for your own company, or if you’re struggling to explain why it’s important to your clients, you should definitely check out this conversation.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - The Power of Sound in Branding

As we start things off, Karsten shares his early memories of sound, and how growing up with ADHD in a musical family shaped his formative years. “I was brought up in a family where my father was a drummer,” Karsten recalls, “so I’ve always been around musicians and music and the first time I really discovered that I had this almost perfect pitch was when I went to music school.” He explains how a surprising discovery at a concert led to his career in marketing and audio branding, and the seismic shift that the streaming era – and particularly the rise of YouTube – represented for the industry. “Suddenly brands and companies need to communicate in these spheres,” he tells us. “How did they do that? How did they choose music? How should they buy music? So it’s a whole new game, from only being on TV and radio to being on all the time, to keep… producing content all the time.”

(0:12:18) - Designing Meaningful Audio Branding Experiences

Our conversation turns to UX and branding through sound design, and Karsten points out how ubiquitous sound interfaces have become these days. “A headset, a modern headset, for whatever company, it can have up to around 15 different sounds,” he notes. “You know, power on, power off, battery low, volume max, next song, anti-noise cancellation, Bluetooth connection.” He recalls an experience with an electronic tea kettle with an audio design more suited for fire alarms, and he talks about the difference in brand recognition and quality that audio branding can represent. “If I wear a pair of headsets every day which I turn on,” he says, “or drive a car that I use daily, or use my coffee machine or whatever, these interaction sounds, these user interaction sounds, are becoming the most heard sounds from the brand. And if they sound cheap, it’s probably a cheap brand.”

(0:22:26) - The Importance of Sound in UX

We come back to the topic of good and bad sound design, and how good UX design operates on an information spectrum. “Is it important or is it just ‘need a new battery’ sound? The scale of importance, is it an about-to-die sound or is it ‘please look to me in the next couple of days because you might want to change the battery’ sound?” We talk about how hospitals and medical device sound designs reflect some of the problems and solutions to creating an effective audio interface, and how important it is for companies whose products, whether they realize it or not, are driven by sound. “I’m in this UX sound bubble or marketing bubble with sound,” Karsten adds. “But I do feel that it is getting more attention... you can see that your product is selling better with better sounds, and it gets better reviews.”

Episode Summary

• Karsten’s journey from professional musician to audio-branding pioneer.
• The relationship between sound and brand image, and what makes a brand “innovative.”
• Striking the right balance between useful and intrusive audio UX design.

Be sure to tune in for next week’s episode as Karsten and I discuss his award-winning work on a campaign featuring the sounds of Berlin, what audio UX can learn from the old days of Lycos and Geocities sites, and why louder isn’t better when it comes to ear-catching sound design.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

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Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“If it’s stock music, unless you’re paying, like, some libraries have exclusivity, but most of them don’t. So that’s what I always say to clients, like stock music. You might hear that Joe’s ice cream shop also has the same music that you have. And you’re Chrysler – I keep saying Chrysler, but whatever, a big brand. A good example of an audio branding that we did was the Rogers. That was huge, and when we first did that, it was for a very close friend of mine, Philippe Garneau, and Mark’s brother, the astronaut, and he came to me, and he had the Rogers account. He said, ‘We want a mnemonic on the end of the spot, but we’re only going to use it for three commercials.’ And so they lost the business, and Rogers loved that mnemonic.” – Ted “Theo” Rosnick

This episode is the second half of my conversation with music and audio director/producer Ted Rosnick, as we discuss the use of AI, especially digital voice clones, in advertising, the impact of the SAG-AFTRA strike, and the unwritten rule voice artists follow when it comes to branding.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - Evolution of Music Production and AI

The second half of our conversation starts with Ted’s perspective on advertising in the 21st century, and one early trend that marked a turning point. “One of the main things I remember changing a lot was when Napster came along,” he recalls. “People could download a hundred songs in an hour, and I noticed it was, all of a sudden, we were expected to do seven or eight demos, because that’s what they were used to, like, pulling music down all night long and hearing their stuff.” We talk about digital studios and sound design, and how AI voice cloning has transformed the industry, including a recent commercial campaign that featured a synthetic likeness of a human actor. “We asked his permission,” Ted tells us, “and so we AI’d his voice, and it worked out really well. Nobody would know. I know the difference because I just know, but you wouldn’t know the difference.”

(0:10:42) - The Impact of AI on Creativity

Ted tells us about his experience with AI-assisted brainstorming and its limitations as a content writer. “I’ve written them and then thrown them into ChatGTP,” he explains, “and then said, ‘Can you just make it a little warmer?’ But the truth of the matter is that I’ve always gone back to my own, because I don’t think it’s as warm as or as good as what’s in here, you know.” We discuss what sets human and AI creativity apart, and how what makes a work human often comes down to the very things AI would try to fix. “A lot of it is that human subtleties are mistakes,” he tells us. “When you start tearing it down for the mix, you hear all sorts of mistakes. They’re not glaring mistakes that are going to ruin it, but they’re not perfect, and that’s what makes it human. And that’s what makes it great.”

(0:23:10) - The World of Audio Branding

Our conversation closes with some of Ted’s most memorable ad campaigns, including one sonic brand that took off beyond anyone’s expectations. “If they were doing a commercial radio commercial, you’d hear that at the end of them,” he says. “When you opened your phone, if you’re with Rogers, you’d hear it. We got paid eighteen thousand dollars for that, and then all of a sudden we were hearing it everywhere.” He shares his latest work, such as 2024’s award-winning film Drive Back Home, along with a surprising admission. “Honestly, this is the first time I’ve been on a podcast,” Ted reveals. “I’ve been interviewed on TV many times and on the radio, but I’ve never done a podcast.”

Episode Summary

• How Napster and digital technology changed both the music industry and audio marketing.
• The role of AI and voice clones in marketing and its impact on creatives.
• Ted’s approach to helping clients and companies forge a unique sonic identity.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

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Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

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Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“We did one for Mercedes, which again was very unique and very simple. It was about this guy Raymond who had never tried ice cream before. And it was a great commercial, and it talked about Raymond never having ice cream, and he waited, and he would watch other people have ice cream, and then one day Raymond decided to have ice cream. And then all of a sudden it cuts to a Mercedes logo. And then the last ten seconds, it was for Mercedes, but it was so well done and so unique, and the score was very, very, very unique.” – Ted “Theo” Rosnick

This episode’s guest returned to Toronto from Boston in 1974 after attending Berklee College of Music. He soon began working as a studio drummer, but his passion for audio production quickly led him to start his own jingle production company, Rosnick Productions, in 1975. Through hard work and dedication, he quickly established himself as Canada’s top audio producer and audio director for commercials. He went on to partner with Steve McKinnon in 1990, forming RMW Music, and the company remained the top music production company in Canada for decades before being sold to Vapor Music in 2016. Since that sale, he’s remained with Vapor as a Creative Director, continuing to bring his expertise and passion to many projects and to the industry. His work is recognized not just in Canada but globally, having shaped the sound of major brands like IKEA, Molson, Subaru, Mercedes, Peroni, and Heinz, among many others. Over his five-decade career, he’s earned hundreds of advertising awards for his music and sound design, always pushing creative boundaries with fresh ideas and meticulous attention to detail – all of which are things we definitely appreciate here.

Beyond advertising, he’s made his mark in sound design and music for feature films and documentaries, and he’s the executive producer and audio director of the well-known advertising podcast IOFA with Aaron Starkman. He’s also mentored countless emerging talents over the years, a role that he takes great pride in. Just this past February, he decided to retire from the advertising industry after an illustrious fifty-year career, and he now enjoys spending time at his cottage in northern Ontario with family and friends, playing the drums, and catching Raptors games.

His name is Ted, or “Theo,” Rosnick, and getting the opportunity to speak with someone who has such a rich knowledge of the advertising industry and how it’s evolved over the years – not to mention how much sound has played a part in that – is a real treat. If you want to know where advertising’s been, where it is now, and where it might be heading, this is a discussion you won’t want to miss.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - Legendary Marketing and Music Memories

Our conversation starts off with Ted’s early memories of sound, and it’s one a few guests have shared: The Beatles’ unforgettable performance on The Ed Sullivan Show. “I had never heard that kind of music before,” Ted tells us. “So the next day in school, I think I was in grade six, yeah, like, everybody was talking about it, and within about two weeks, everybody was wearing Beatles boots and Beatles shirts.” He tells us about his musical start as a jazz musician and how it led to his first commercial production. “I had never done a jingle,” he recalls, “nor had I really even thought about jingles before that… We went into the studio together after our gig at one o’clock in the morning and recorded everything ourselves with one singer, and I showed up at the office of McConnell Advertising around nine o’clock in the morning with a tape and said, ‘Hey, here it is,’ and they loved it.”

(0:08:33) - Legal Battles and Musical Innovation

Ted and I talk about some of his early misadventures in advertising in an era when jingle copyrights and royalties hadn’t quite been worked out yet. “It went on forever,” he recalls one multi-million dollar lawsuit that was eventually dropped. “It made the lead story on Entertainment Tonight, and I remember my parents calling me at the time. They were in Mexico, and they said, ‘Oh, we’re so proud of you, you’re on Entertainment Tonight!’" He tells us about the early days of editing commercials and how his studio made the pivotal decision to expand from jingles to full sound editing. “I changed that because I thought, ‘Why are the editors doing the sound?’” Ted says. “So we started doing the sound effects, but also doing sound design with musical instruments rather than just footsteps or whatever, more abstract. And so we started doing that, and a few commercials came in that really warranted that kind of an approach, and they were very good commercials, like highly crafted commercials.”

(0:18:30) - Audio Director’s Legacy and Impact

As the first half of our discussion closes, Ted tells us about some of his favorite commercial projects, including a memorable Mercedes ice-cream spot, and the impact his unyielding approach to advertising work made on others. “I never sat back and thought about how I was perceived in the industry. I knew I was popular because I was really busy, but I assume people hated me.” He discovered just what that meant during his induction into Canada’s Marketing Hall of Legends, and he discovered what his clients thought of him. “I was driving back from shopping, and my girlfriend, we got it on my phone, and I said ‘Read it to me,’” he says. “It was all these interviews with ex-clients, and I started to cry, like, a number of times… I felt like Sally Field, you know. ‘They like me, they really like me.’”

Episode Summary

• Ted’s lifelong journey from jazz musician and drummer to pioneering jingle creator.
• How a McDonald’s ad and Chubby Checker’s The Twist " led to a hair-raising legal battle.
• Ted’s induction into the Marketing Hall of Legends after a fifty-year career.

Be sure to tune in for next week’s episode as Ted talks about how the dawn of digital media changed the way advertisers create content, his recent work with legally approved AI voice clones, and what he thinks of – and how he’s contributed to – the reviving trend of parody song commercials.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

Watch the Audio Branding Podcast on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiKrangleVO

Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“There’s a quote from a famously terrible person, Thomas Jefferson, who said – I don’t particularly like him or a lot of the things he did, but I do agree with this, I do agree with this specific quote. ‘I will study war and strategy so that my children may study science and maths, so that their children may study art and poetry.’ I’m sure I’m butchering the exact quote, but the sentiment is there. Why are we creating robots to do art for us? Why do we not yet have something that can fold my laundry? Wouldn’t that be useful? That’s what I want. And at the end of the day, if I had to pick either having a robot to do my art for me so that I have time to fold my laundry, or having to do both, I’d rather do both. I’m fine living. I enjoy being alive and being a human. I don’t need a robot to take away what, to me, is the most human thing about us, which is that we can create.” – Benjamin Kapit

This episode is the second half of my conversation with Benjamin Kapit of Second World Entertainment as he shares some of the more obscure sounds that he’s turned into cinematic effects, discusses the ethics of AI training and what it gets right and wrong about human creativity, and the message he’d most like to share with future generations about the power of sound.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - Exploring Sound in Film Production

As our discussion begins, Benjamin shares more of his hands-on experience with audio production, from the studio apps and audio plugins he prefers to the challenge of bringing it all together in the film’s final cut. “You have to record sound and work with the sound props make,” he says, “the way that people talk, or rather who’s mic’d up in certain shots. You have to work with the edit. You have to have that somehow in your mind because you, the director, are the only one who really knows what it’s going to look like when it’s done.” He tells us about some of his more inventive sound sources, such as a microphone specifically tuned to record static. “When it comes to post-production,” Benjamin says, “especially sound,” I hate rules. I don’t want to do things the way that everyone else does. I don’t want to sit down and say, okay, well, this sound sounds like this, so it has to be this thing.”

(0:11:06) - Exploring AI in the Sound Industry

Benjamin and I talk about the groundbreaking audio work in sci-fi movies like Dune and Interstellar, and how they’ve inspired his approach to sound design. “It never really occurred to me that, like, oh, you can just mess with a synth or with a sound so much that it becomes something else,” he says about Interstellar’s distinctive soundscape. “You can completely shift the tone and the meaning behind audio and make it yours and make people think, yeah, this is this other thing and it’s not.” Our conversation turns to AI’s transformative role in the industry, and his concern that the distinction between different forms of AI, and the question of whether any of them can truly be called artificial intelligence, is being lost in the hype. “Take a program that can look at an MRI and scan for cancer and detect it faster than humans can,” he explains. “That’s discriminative AI. It is separating and analyzing data sets. Then you get to generative AI, and what generative AI is doing is it’s taking these mass data sets and using a statistical model to create something that should look like what’s been requested of it.”

(0:16:01) - The Impact of AI on Creativity

As our conversation closes, Benjamin explains how generative AI works and what sets its algorithmic process apart from human thought. “ChatGPT doesn’t know what I’m saying,” he tells us. “It knows that, statistically, the most likely next thing to follow [hello] would be ‘hi,’ and then ‘how,’ and then ‘are,’ and then ‘you,’ and then a question mark. And that’s only because it’s trained on data.” We talk about whether AI-generated art can be called creative, what its evolution might mean for the industry, and his thoughts about the expanding role of machine learning in everyday tasks. “I’d rather spend hours upon hours going down YouTube rabbit holes,” he says, “on how to work a specific plugin to get a specific sound, using hours on Serum 2 in Ableton to make a specific sound, than to ask AI to do it, because then I didn’t do it and a human didn’t do it. And I want to work with people.”

Episode Summary

• Benjamin’s thoughts on ASMR, film production, and his favorite audio apps and plug-ins.
• AI’s evolving role in cinematography and the dangers of relying on generative AI.
• The ethics of generated content and Benjamin’s message for future generations of artists.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

Watch the Audio Branding Podcast on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiKrangleVO

Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/

“If you have a screen that goes very bright white or if you have a screen that goes very dark, people can deal. Their eyes will adjust, or they’ll just accept that. But if you have bad sound, people will leave. They’ll turn off the movie. If they have to be adjusting the volume, if they have to adjust the volume of a video more than like two times, they’re very likely to leave. If the sound is just, like, bad audio and they can’t understand it, they won’t follow what’s going on. They’ll leave. So even from that most basic perspective, just passable good audio is more important than passable good visuals, because people can forgive bad visuals. But they cannot and will not forgive bad sound, because bad sound hurts.” – Benjamin Kapit

This episode’s guest is a filmmaker, composer, and sound designer who started his production company at the age of fifteen. He’s currently in post-production for multiple short films and web shows, and he’s working on his fifth vocal album. His name is Benjamin Kapit, and our two-part conversation covers a wide range of sound-related issues when it comes to creativity. Stay tuned for more insights into, among other things, what it was like starting his sound career at such a young age, the balancing act of creating sound-based art and film in the age of AI, and his approach to movie soundtracks.

As always, if you have questions for my guest, you’re welcome to reach out through the links in the show notes. If you have questions for me, visit audiobrandingpodcast.com, where you’ll find a lot of ways to get in touch. Plus, subscribing to the newsletter will let you know when the new podcasts are available, along with other interesting bits of audio-related news. And if you’re getting some value from listening, the best ways to show your support are to share this podcast with a friend and leave an honest review. Both those things really help, and I’d love to feature your review on future podcasts. You can leave one either in written or in voice format from the podcast’s main page. I would so appreciate that.

(0:00:00) - Exploring Sound, Film & Autism

As our discussion begins, Benjamin shares his early memories of sounds and how his older brother’s musical talent inspired his own career path. “We had an upright piano,” he recalls, “and eventually got a baby grand, and my house growing up was constantly filled with music, and I look up to my brother so much because he’s the one that got me into piano.” He talks about his autism diagnosis and how being on the spectrum can be a double-edged sword when it comes to filmmaking. “I see a lot of the work that I do as a puzzle,” he explains, “and so, you know, despite the shortcomings of it, I’m able to utilize whatever’s going on in my brain to actually end up helping the work that I do.”

(0:11:30) - Creativity in Sound Design and Film

The topic turns to cinematic audio and the challenge of inventing whole new sounds that have no counterpart in the real world. “How do you approach making a sound for, you know, shooting magic out of their wand,” he says, “because that’s not a real thing. So what do you do for it? Do you go for the more realistic element, or do you head towards, like, complete synthesis?” We discuss film scores and their role in shaping not only the narrative but also the performances. “One of my shortcomings is communication,” Benjamin tells us, “and if I can’t get an idea or the feeling of a scene out verbally to an actor, I bet I can do it with music. So I’ll write pieces before I even get on set that I can hand to the actor and say, ‘This is how this scene should feel.’ Then we’ll be able to discuss it further.”

(0:26:16) - On-Set Audio Challenges and Solutions

Benjamin and I talk about how easy it is to overlook sound in movie making, and the perils of doing so. “If you have bad sound,” he notes, “people will leave, they’ll turn off the movie. If they have to be adjusting the volume, if they have to adjust the volume of a video more than, like, two times, they’re very likely to leave.” He tells us about the practical challenges of recording both on and off the set, such as a conversation aboard a speedboat. “We have a scene that was entirely eighty yards on a boat,” he recalls, “a speedboat that was going thirty miles an hour, and so you could barely even hear them on set with a boom microphone. So they had to do [ADR] mostly to, like, their mouths moving.”

Episode Summary

• Benjamin’s early sonic influences and his journey as a young filmmaker.
• How cinematic soundscapes bring fantasy to life, and the narrative power of music.
• Benjamin’s techniques for capturing quality audio, even on a speedboat.

Tune in for next week’s episode as Benjamin shares how background static can play a surprising role in sound design, the crucial difference between generative AI and discriminative artificial intelligence, and his thoughts on whether AI artwork and sound effects can replace creativity.

Connect with the Audio Branding Podcast:

Book your project with Voice Overs and Vocals by visiting https://voiceoversandvocals.com

Connect with me on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jodikrangle/

Watch the Audio Branding Podcast on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/JodiKrangleVO

Connect with me on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodikrangle/

Leave the Audio Branding Podcast a review at https://lovethepodcast.com/audiobranding (Thank you!)

Share your passion effectively with these Tips for Sounding Your Best as a Podcast Guest!

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/tips-for-sounding-your-best-as-a-podcast-guest/

Get my Top Five Tips for Implementing an Intentional Audio Strategy

https://voiceoversandvocals.com/audio-branding-strategy/

Editing/Production by Humberto Franco - https://humbertofranco.com/