In the midst of conflict and disagreement, Christians have a history of talking about big ideas and beliefs rather than "experiencing" them. In this episode, author and therapist Aundi Kolbert joins us and compassionately reminds us what she's always reminded her readers: Until we feel safe in our bodies, we won't be able to healthily address conflict with others. To begin transformative work on the big tensions we face in this world–familially, institutionally, ecclesially, or nationally–we first need to get small and address the personal, hidden layer of attachment and embodiment trauma we have experienced and continue to experience.

In this conversation, Michael and Aundi discuss:

1. Why it's hard to remain present and embodied in the current ecclesial atmosphere

2. Our tendency to want to eliminate people in our circles who hold different beliefs than us

3. How we build distress tolerance by first learning to approach conflict on a smaller scale

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Follow Aundi Kolbert on Instagram–@aundikolber. You can find more information about her books "Strong Like Water" and "Try Softer" here.