The annual Shangri-La Dialogue took place in Singapore from 30 May to 1 June. Zack Cooper of the American Enterprise Institute attended and returns to the podcast to talk through his impressions with Darren. What did we learn about the Trump administration’s strategy in Asia? Should the region fear abandonment or entrapment more? And what should we make of Secretary of Defense Hegseth’s call for Australia to spend 3.5% of GDP on defence?

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Remarks by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth at the 2025 Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore (As Delivered), 31 May 2025: https://www.defense.gov/News/Speeches/Speech/Article/4202494/remarks-by-secretary-of-defense-pete-hegseth-at-the-2025-shangri-la-dialogue-in/

Huw McKay, “Trump and the art of the (bad faith) deal”, “Lowy Interpreter, 2 June 2025.

Stacie E. Goddard, “The Rise and Fall of Great-Power Competition: Trump’s New Spheres of Influence”, Foreign Affairs, May/June 2025: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/rise-and-fall-great-power-competition#

Net Assessment (podcast), “Great Power Competition or Collusion?”, 29 May 2025: https://www.stimson.org/2025/great-power-competition-or-collusion/

With Prime Minister Albanese’s government returned to office with a large majority, Darren is wondering what the data from the PM and Foreign Minister’s first overseas trips tell us about the early trajectory of Australian foreign policy in this new term. Is it one of continuity or change? Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC, who accompanied the PM on his trip to Jakarta, the Vatican, and Singapore, joins to discuss that trip and FM Penny Wong’s trip to three Pacific Island nations. Finally, the PM was critical of the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) this week, and in light of that story Darren ventures a model of think thank influence, much to Stephen’s delight!

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Stephen Dziedzic, “Albanese calls for deeper economic ties with Indonesia on first visit since re-election”, ABC News, 15 May 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-15/anthony-albanese-first-overseas-trip-to-indonesia/105298630

Greg Earl, “Australia-Indonesia relations: From Keating’s bold vision to Albanese’s careful pragmatism”, Lowy Interpreter, 22 May 2025: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/australia-indonesia-relations-keating-s-bold-vision-albanese-s-careful-pragmatism

Stephen Dziedzic, “Anthony Albanese tells Volodymyr Zelenskyy Australia doing 'whatever we can' to pressure Russia”, ABC News, 19 May 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-19/albanese-meets-zelenskyy-and-the-pope-in-rome/105308062

Stephen Dziedzic, “Pacific Island nations support China's Taiwan claims at high-profile foreign ministers' meeting”, ABC News, 29 May 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-29/china-wang-yi-pacific-islands-meeting-climate-taiwan/105353012

Andrew Greene, “Anthony Albanese tells think tank to 'have a look at themselves' after defence report”, ABC News, 29 May 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-05-29/albanese-lashes-aspi-defence-spending-report/105351518

Christoper Clary, “Four Days in May: The India-Pakistan Crisis of 2025”, Stimson Center. Working Paper, 28 May 2025: https://www.stimson.org/2025/four-days-in-may-the-india-pakistan-crisis-of-2025/

Grand Tamasha (podcast), “How this India-Pakistan conflict will shape the next one”, 20 May 2025: https://carnegieendowment.org/podcasts/grand-tamasha/how-this-india-pakistan-conflict-will-shape-the-next-one?lang=en

Interesting Times with Ross Douthat (podcast), “Progressives Are Driving Themselves Into Extinction” 29 May 2025: (Youtube link) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BBapHuklN8

Darren welcomes Dr John Kunkel for the first time to the podcast. John is Senior Economics Adviser at the United States Studies Centre. He has worked as an economist, speech writer, policy analyst, adviser to government and industry executive. John is most well-known for being Chief of Staff to Prime Minister Scott Morrison from August 2018 to May 2022. From 2004 to 2007, he was also speech writer to Prime Minister John Howard. 

John has the ideal background to discuss the current geopolitical and geoeconomic moment Australia faces. He holds a PhD in economics from ANU and understands why markets and openness have been essential to Australia’s success. But as a PM’s Chief of Staff, including during the COVID outbreak, John is well aware of the complexity of Australia’s national interests, the difficult of making policy, and the challenges posed by China and, lately, Donald Trump’s America. The conversation starts with President Trump and the United States, moves to China, and finishes at home on how Australia needs new thinking, and new policy processes, to navigate this moment in history.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

John Kunkel (bio): https://www.ussc.edu.au/john-kunkel

Adam Posen, “Trade wars are easy to lose”, Foreign Affairs, 9 April 2025: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/tariffs-trade-wars-are-easy-lose

Yuval Levin Wikipedia page (author of “The Great Debate”, “The Fractured Republic” and “A Time to Build”): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuval_Levin

Thomas Sowell, A Conflict of Visions (1987): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Conflict_of_Visions

James Q Wilson, The Moral Sense (1993): https://www.simonandschuster.com.au/books/The-Moral-Sense/James-Q-Wilson/9780684833323

China Talk (podcast), “Ezra, Derek and Dan Wang”, 9 May 2025: https://www.chinatalk.media/p/abundance-and-antagonism

Australia’s federal election delivered a clear and in many ways stunning victory for the incumbent centre-left Labor government led by PM Anthony Albanese. Coming a week after an even more astonishing victory by the centre-left Liberal Party in Canada, Darren is intensely focused on the extent to which President Trump, and Trumpism, played a meaningful role in Labor’s victory, and what this devastation means for the future of conservative politics in Australia. Darren is joined again by good friend and journalist Eliza Harvey, who is Executive Producer of the ABC’s Q&A program, to talk things through.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Daniel Jeffrey, “Gina Rinehart calls for Liberal Party to embrace Trumpist policies, laments election result”, Nine News, 5 May 2025: https://www.9news.com.au/national/federal-election-2025-gina-rinehart-statement/573c7c24-c4a0-4be4-8d99-6c25ffc4b8dc

“Outgoing MP Keith Wolahan outlines Liberal Party's urban challenge” (Video), Insiders (ABC News), 4 May 2025: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kUS3m_j4_w

Sinners (film): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinners_(2025_film)

Say nothing (TV series): https://www.disneyplus.com/en-au/browse/entity-ada252dd-714c-4c2c-b15c-f1ed93cdf5b0

Geraldine Brooks, Memorial Days: https://www.hachette.com.au/geraldine-brooks/memorial-days

With four episodes on tariffs this month, the podcast has already broken its monthly episode record. Nevertheless, news is also happening elsewhere, and for the past few months a number of interesting stories emerged in Southeast Asia. Then, given that Southeast Asian economies are some of the most directly affected by Trump’s tariff policies, the need for a conversation centred on Southeast Asia only increased, starting with how the US is perceived and the assessments being made regarding the region’s strategic trajectory.

To discuss all this and more, Aaron Connolly returns to the podcast. Aaron is Asia Diplomatic Editor and Singapore Bureau Chief at The Economist, having joined the newspaper from the International Institute of Strategic Studies where he was working the last time he appeared on the podcast. Aaron offers both a big picture strategic landscape of the region, and broad and deep knowledge of details, both political and economic. In addition to Trump and tariffs, Darren and Aaron discuss Indonesia’s recent military reforms and other policies of the Prabowo administration, Thailand’s deportation of Uighurs to China, and the arrest of former Philippines president Duterte.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Aaron Connelly (bio): https://mediadirectory.economist.com/people/aaron-connelly/

The Economist, “Prabowo Subianto takes a chainsaw to Indonesia’s budget”, 27 February 2025: https://www.economist.com/leaders/2025/02/27/prabowo-subianto-takes-a-chainsaw-to-indonesias-budget

Scam Inc (podcast), The Economist: https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/scam-inc

Money Talks (podcast), The Economist: https://www.economist.com/audio/podcasts/money-talks

Odd Lots (podcast), “What a us stove maker thinks about tariffs” 14 April 2025: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/audio/2025-04-14/odd-lots-what-a-us-stove-maker-thinks-about-tariffs-podcast

The Trump administration has announced exemptions to the massive reciprocal tariffs on China for smartphones, computers and other electronics. In his latest rapid reaction podcast, Darren assesses the exemptions and comments on the the larger tariff picture, barely 10 days after "Liberation Day". 

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Tanner Greer, "Obscurity by design: Competing priorities for America's China Policy", Foreign Policy Research Institute, March 2025: https://www.fpri.org/article/2025/03/obscurity-by-design/

Adam Tooze, Chartbook 374: As Trump triggers "sell America", will the result be "stage 4", the politicization of financial markets?, 12 April 2025: https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-374-as-trump-triggers-sell 

President Trump has paused the so-called 'reciprocal' element of his tariffs for everyone but China, meaning a baseline rate of 10% is in place, while PRC imports face tariffs of over 100%. In this episode, Darren offers some initial reactions to this breaking news.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Hannah Nelson and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Jay Cost (tweet): https://x.com/Jay__Cost/status/1910099320768209058

Mr Beast (tweet): https://x.com/MrBeast/status/1909621956258775458

Brad Setser (tweet): https://x.com/Brad_Setser/status/1909309353393635551 

Jesse Singal (tweet): https://x.com/jessesingal/status/1910039965536559350?s=46 

James Palmer (BlueSky): https://bsky.app/profile/beijingpalmer.bsky.social/post/3lme7pnzzw22v

Last episode having offered his rapid reactions in the hours after President Trump’s tariff announcement, on Friday 4 April Darren was joined by Dr. Huw Mackay to talk through the economics and financial market angles, a full day after the tariff announcement. How did markets react and what might that tell us about the days and weeks ahead? How will companies be thinking about these events, and what advice would Huw offer to governments around the world on how they ought to manage this policy challenge?

Huw, a former Chief Economist at BHP, offers a vital perspective from the private sector on big questions not just of economics but of geopolitics and foreign policy. Fair warning: the first part of the discussion is extremely wonky, but nevertheless essential, because understanding the potential macroeconomic impacts of these tariffs is a precondition for analysing their impact on geopolitics and the international economic order.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Huw McKay (LinkedIn): https://au.linkedin.com/in/huw-mckay-6ab582ab

Huw McKay, “How the West can shore up its strategic metals supply chain”, Lowy Interpreter, 28 Feb 2025: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/how-west-can-shore-its-strategic-metals-supply-chain

William Dalrymple, The Golden Road (2024): https://williamdalrymple.com/books/the-golden-road

Jordan Schneider, China Talk (podcast): https://www.chinatalk.media/p/podcast-corruption-spies-tiananmen

President Trump's "Liberation Day" has come and gone, and hours after the momentous announcement of tariffs being imposed on basically the entire world, Darren shares his initial reactions.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Oren Cass, "The One Word that Explains Globalization's Failure, and Trump's Response", Understanind America, 25 February 2025: https://www.understandingamerica.co/p/the-one-word-that-explains-globalizations 

It’s time to return to the news, and Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC returns to discuss three big stories that he’s been reporting on in recent weeks. First, what is the impact of Donald Trump on the foreign policy community in Australia? How is the government managing the tariffs and numerous other controversies, and will this become an election issue? Is there ballast developing around a “plan B”? Second, a group of People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) warships circumnavigated Australia in February, causing quite a stir. And third, New Zealand and Cook Islands have been a tense relationship in recent months with the latter’s relationship with Beijing central to the dispute.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Stephen Dziedzic, “What the Trump and Zelenskyy fallout means for Australian foreign policy”, ABC, 4 March 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-04/trump-zelenskyy-fallout-repercussions-australian-foreign-policy/105004636

Stephen Dziedzic, “Tariffs could be turning point in Albanese's 'no comment' strategy on Trump”, ABC, 12 March 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-12/tariffs-turning-point-albanese-response-trump/105043594

Andrew Greene and Stephen Dziedzic, “Intelligence chief says Chinese warship deployment designed to be 'provocative'”, ABC, 26 February 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-26/chinese-warship-deployment-designed-to-be-provocative/104982224

Jennifer Parker, “China’s expedition shows Australia must become a naval power”, Australian Financial Review, 23 February 2025: https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/china-s-expedition-shows-australia-must-become-a-naval-power-20250222-p5le9k

Lim, D. J., & Colnaghi, W. B. (2024). "Strategically (in)secure and economically (in)vulnerable: Australia, New Zealand, and their relations with China". Australian Journal of International Affairs, 78(5), 600–613. https://doi.org/10.1080/10357718.2024.2406279

Stephen Dziedzic, and Kyle Evans “How passports and a deal with China have put New Zealand at odds with its former colony Cook Islands”, ABC, 8 February 2025: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-08/cook-islands-new-zealand-relations-china-passports/104909718

The Last Dance (Netflix): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/80203144

Lady Gaga, Mayhem (album): https://open.spotify.com/album/2MHUaRi9OCyTN02SoyRRBJ