On the eve of Donald Trump’s second inauguration, one of the podcast’s editors, Corbin Duncan, interviews Darren in a “ask me anything” format, asking both his own questions and those submitted by friends of the podcast. How did Darren come to studying economic security and is there a framework for practising it? Are we returning to a world of spheres of influence? Is foreign interference being normalised? How is the ‘pivot to Asia’ going? Have we reached peak democracy? Who will be the geopolitical winners of decarbonisation? Can academics influence foreign policy and are they self-censoring?

It is a very wide-ranging conversation!

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research, interviewing and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Eliot Chen, “Does Washington Have China Groupthink?”, The Wire China, 5 January 2025: https://www.thewirechina.com/2025/01/05/does-washington-have-china-groupthink/

Arthur C. Brooks (personal website): https://arthurbrooks.com/

Rob Henderson, Troubled: A Memoir of Foster Care, Family, and Social Class (Gallery Books, 2024): https://www.amazon.com.au/Troubled-Memoir-Foster-Family-Social/dp/1982168536

The Day of the Jackal (TV Series): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Jackal_(TV_series)

In the past few months Darren has been teaching his elective undergraduate course, Power and Influence in World Politics (POLS2136) at ANU. This year, he has grappled with the impact of Donald Trump’s re-election, and what it signifies for how power will be accumulated and wielded in the future. Remember, Trump’s core critique of the Biden Administration was weakness – so presumably Trump plans to show us strength. Does that mean America can be more ‘powerful’, or will the result actually be the opposite? And Australia’s deals with PNG and Nauru this month illustrate how far Australia has come in exercising power and influence in recent years.

Hervé Lemahieu and Susannah Patton of the Lowy Institute in Sydney join Darren for a conversation about power.  Hervé is Lowy’s Director of Research and Susannah the Director of the Southeast Asia Program and Project Lead for Lowy’s Asia Power Index, which Hervé first developed in 2018. Who better to have a conversation with about power, what it is, how we measure it, and how the forces that have given us Trump, or perhaps Trump himself, might require is to reassess how we conceive of power in world politics into the future.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Hervé Lemahieu (bio): https://www.lowyinstitute.org/herve-lemahieu

Susannah Patton (bio): https://www.lowyinstitute.org/susannah-patton

Lowy Institute Asia Power Index, 2024 Edition: https://power.lowyinstitute.org/

Susannah Patton and Hervé Lemahieu, “Asia has no hegemon: But U.S.-Chinese Bipolarity Is Good for America and the Region”, Foreign Affairs, 13 September: https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/asia-has-no-hegemon-us-chinese-bipolarity-good-america-region

Mitch McConnell, “The Price of American Retreat: Why Washington Must Reject Isolationism and Embrace Primacy”, Foreign Affairs, Jan/Feb 2025: https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/price-american-retreat-trump-mitch-mcconnell

Join or die (Netflix documentary): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81746809

Wicked (2024 Film): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicked_(2024_film) 

Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC reported this past week on two significant deals the Australian government struck with the governments of Nauru and Papua New Guinea. He joins Darren to talk through how geopolitics, development, banking and finance and, yes, now the sport of rugby league, are all mixing together as Canberra sails into relatively uncharted waters in its foreign policy.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Stephen Dziedzic, “Australia inks treaty with Nauru locking out growing Chinese influence”, ABC News, 9 December: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-09/australia-nauru-treaty-locks-out-china/104702002

Stephen Dziedzic, “Australia, PNG unveil deal for Papua New Guinea team to enter NRL in 2028”, ABC News, 12 December: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-12/png-australia-unveil-new-nrl-team/104716250

Stephen Dziedzic, “Friends and partners weigh up Canberra's 'relentless' Pacific push”, ABC News, 14 December: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-14/canberras-relentless-pacific-push/104723598

Pat Conroy, TV Interview, Sarah Ferguson, ABC 7.30 (transcript), 12 December: https://ministers.dfat.gov.au/minister/pat-conroy/transcript/tv-interview-sarah-ferguson-abc-730

APRA Chair John Lonsdale’s speech to the European Australian Business Council, 25 November 2024: https://www.apra.gov.au/news-and-publications/apra-chair-john-lonsdale%E2%80%99s-speech-to-european-australian-business-council

Stephen Dziedzic, “Treasurer says government in 'final stages of negotiations' with ANZ to maintain bank's Pacific presence”, ABC News, 11 November: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-11/government-striking-deal-to-maintain-anz-bank-pacific-presence/104587514

As the world begins to think through the implications of a second Trump presidential term, Darren is joined once again by Zack Cooper of the American Enterprise Institute to talk through what we do know, and what we don’t, about the coming storm. What was Trump’s basic critique of the Biden administration's foreign policy? What are the competing camps on foreign policy inside Trumpworld? And what should Australia do, about AUKUS, the Quad, and the alliance generally? Does Kevin Rudd’s position remain tenable? There’s a lot to discuss, albeit with the caveat that we do not know much for certain at this point!

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Zack Cooper (bio): https://www.aei.org/profile/zack-cooper/

Zack Cooper, Tides of Fortune: The Rise and Decline of Great Militaries (2025, Yale University Press): https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300268676/tides-of-fortune/

Net Assessment (podcast): https://warontherocks.com/category/podcasts/net-assessment/

Tanner Greer, “The Battle to Shape Trump’s China policy”, Foreign Policy Research Institute, 29 October 2024: https://www.fpri.org/article/2024/10/the-battle-to-shape-trumps-china-policy/

Ezra Klein Show (podcast), Vivek Ramaswamy Has a Different Vision for Trumpism From JD Vance, 29 October 2024: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-vivek-ramaswamy.html

The shock may not be quite as sharp as 2016, but the consequences could well be even more dire. Eliza Harvey of the ABC returns to join Darren in talking through thoughts, and feelings, in reaction to Donald Trump's stunning election victory. 

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

In an era where “economic security is national security”, arguably the most important perspective in how governments ought to intervene in the economy--in ways to maximise benefits and minimise costs--is that of the private sector. With that in mind, Darren welcomes Dr Huw McKay to the podcast to hear a business perspective on the economic security agenda and geoeconomics. Huw has just returned to Australia after living in Singapore for many years where he worked as Chief Economist at BHP. Prior to that he was an Executive Director at Westpac Bank and also spent time at the Commonwealth Treasury on secondment during the financial crisis. He holds a PhD in economics and economic history from ANU and his book, The Strategic Logic of China’s Economy, was published this year. The agenda for this conversation will be familiar to those thinking about economic security – how do we define it, is it simply all about China, what principles should guide industrial policy, how do we manage the weaponisation of supply chains and chokepoints, how can we counter economic coercion, and how can the rules-based order be preserved? As the Australian government builds out its “Future Made in Australia” agenda, this is exactly the type of conversation that is needed to inform the debate.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Huw McKay (LinkedIn): https://au.linkedin.com/in/huw-mckay-6ab582ab

Huw McKay, The Strategic Logic of China’s Economy (2024): https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-031-47229-9

Hugh White, The China Choice: Why America Should Share Power (2012): https://www.blackincbooks.com.au/books/china-choice

Graeme Snooks, The dynamic society: Explaining the sources of global change (1996) (Goodreads): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1263694.The_Dynamic_Society

The rest is history (podcast): https://www.goalhangerpodcasts.com/the-rest-is-history

Huberman Lab (podcast): Esther Perel: How to Find, Build & Maintain Healthy Romantic Relationships: https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/esther-perel-how-to-find-build-maintain-healthy-romantic-relationships

India has only been on the periphery of Darren’s professional vision since the dramatic headlines last year surrounding the killing of a Sikh activist in Canada and an indictment alleging a similar assassination attempt in the US. But 2024 has been a big year for India with its national election and PM Modi winning a 3rd term, but with a far smaller margin of victory than most expected. And with the Quad meeting recently being held in Joe Biden’s home state of Delaware, now is a good time to catch up on the world’s most populous country. To do that Darren invited back Ian Hall. Ian is a Professor of international relations at Griffith University and an Academic Fellow at the Australia India Institute. Darren asks what the election and post-election tell us about the trajectory of India’s democracy. They discuss whether India ought to be modelled as a ‘normal’ rising power and the nature (and limit) of China as the core organising principle of Western cooperation with India, with a focus on the Quad. Finally, they discuss the Indian diaspora in Australia.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Ian Hall (biography): https://experts.griffith.edu.au/18600-ian-hall

Ian Hall, Modi and the Reinvention of Indian Foreign Policy (Bristol U Press, 2021): https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/modi-and-the-reinvention-of-indian-foreign-policy

Grand Tamasha (podcast): https://carnegieendowment.org/podcasts/interpreting-india

Global India (podcast): https://www.brookings.edu/tags/global-india-podcast/

Vijay Gokhale, The Long Game: How the Chinese Negotiate with India (Penguin India, 2021): https://www.penguin.co.in/book/the-long-game/

Steve Randy Waldman, “Abundance is overcapacity”, Interfluidity Drafts (blog), 17 Sep 2024: https://drafts.interfluidity.com/2024/09/17/abundance-is-overcapacity/index.html

In the spirit of trying to channel his obsession with the US election in a (somewhat) productive way, Darren welcomes back Andrew Phillips from the University of Queensland to talk through the extent to which Trump is a ‘normal’ political candidate versus an existential threat to US democracy. Along the way, Darren cannot resist the temptation to introduce Francis Fukuyama’s “last man” model of political resistance, often overlooked when his “End of History” thesis is discussed.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Sohrab Ahmari, “There is an intellectual sickness on the American right”, The New Statesman, 11 September 2024: https://www.newstatesman.com/world/americas/north-america/us/2024/09/there-is-an-intellectual-sickness-on-the-american-right

Andrew Dougall, Mediatizing the Nation, Ordering the World, Oxford University Press, 2024: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/mediatizing-the-nation-ordering-the-world-9780198882114?lang=en&cc=ru

Zhang, F.J. “Political endorsement by Nature and trust in scientific expertise during COVID-19”, Nat Hum Behav 7, 696–706 (2023): https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-023-01537-5

Tyler Cowen, “How public intellectuals can extend their shelf lives”, Marginal Revolution, 6 February 2020: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/02/how-public-intellectuals-can-extend-their-shelf-lives.html

Miss Americana (documentary): https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81028336

The Ezra Klein Show, “On Children, Meaning, Media and Psychedelics”, 3 September 2024: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/03/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-jia-tolentino.html

The Ezra Klein Show, “Zadie Smith on Populists, Frauds and Flip Phones”, 17 September 2024: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/17/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-zadie-smith.html

Linkin Park, “The Emptiness Machine” (Official Music Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRXH9AbT280

The Deep Life by Cal Newport (podcast): https://www.thedeeplife.com/listen/

Stephen Dziedzic of the ABC recently reported from the Pacific Islands Forum leaders retreat in Tonga. He joins Darren to unpack a very interesting meeting, focusing in particular on the Pacific Policing Initiative (and PM Albanese’s discussions with US Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell, unintentionally recorded on camera) and a reference to Taiwan included in the original communique that was subsequently removed after Beijing forcefully objected (with another interesting exchange caught on camera).

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Corbin Duncan and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

Stephen Dziedzic, “Pacific Islands leaders endorse regional policing initiative in strategic victory for Australia”, ABC News, 28 August: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-28/vanuatu-melanesia-officials-warn-policing-could-block-china/104277614

Stephen Dziedzic, “Anthony Albanese caught on camera joking about Pacific Policing Initiative with top US official Kurt Campbell”, ABC News, 29 August: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-29/albanese-top-us-official-filmed-in-private-chat-pacific/104283976

Stephen Dziedzic, “Pacific Islands Forum says error to blame for Taiwan reference in communique that angered China”, ABC News, 2 September: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-02/pacific-islands-forum-meeting-taiwan-reference-china-ambassador/104299186

John Le Carré, Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy (novel): https://www.penguin.com.au/authors/john-le-carre

Odd Lots (Podcast), “How the White House Thinks About Economic Security”, 15 August: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-08-15/white-house-advisor-daleep-singh-on-economic-security?srnd=oddlots

One year ago, the Albanese Labor government launched the “New International Development Policy”. Darren invites back Bridi Rice, CEO of the Canberra-based Development Intelligence Lab, to assess where the policy stands 12 months in. They review the initial logic of the policy and discuss the role of Development Partnership Plans, the first two (for PNG and Indonesia) having been published. The discussion returns to the topic of integrating development practice and foreign policy, with the Falepili Union between Australia and Tuvalu used as an example. Darren also seeks Bridi’s views on “non-traditional” development policies like Taiwan and AUKUS!

Correction: The statistics in the think tank report are “Australia spends approximately $64b per year on foreign affairs, defence, development and intelligence. The total annual turnover among think tanks is around $64m". Bridi said $70b/$70m on the recording.

Australia in the World is written, hosted, and produced by Darren Lim, with research and editing this episode by Walter Colnaghi and theme music composed by Rory Stenning.

Relevant links

DFAT “New International Development Policy” (2023): https://www.dfat.gov.au/development/new-international-development-policy

DFAT, Australia’s – Papua New Guinea Development Partnership Plan 2024 – 2029: https://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/development/australias-papua-new-guinea-development-partnership-plan-2024-2029

DFAT, Australia – Indonesia Development Partnership Plan 2024-2028, https://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/development/australia-indonesia-development-partnership-plan-2024-2028

The Readout (podcast), “The Hon Pat Conroy x Australia's International Development Policy Anniversary Event”, 22 August 2024: https://www.devintelligencelab.com/readout/s6-patconroy

William Leben and Bridi Rice, “Australia’s strategic policy think tank landscape”, June 2024: https://www.devintelligencelab.com/analyses/australias-strategic-policy-think-tank-landscape

William Barton (composer): https://anam.com.au/theanamset/composers/williambarton

Theodore Ell, Lebanon Days: Memories of an ancient land through economic meltdown, a revolution of hope and surviving the 2020 Beirut explosion, Allen & Unwin: https://www.allenandunwin.com/browse/book/Theodore-Ell-Lebanon-Days-9781922928054