Fifth and final part of the conversation with Donald.
- When the manager doesn’t agree with a new
policy/change
The Bargaining Stage with Sales ManagersHow to disagree with your bossMake sure to subscribe and catch all the episodes this
week to hear the full conversation.
https://thecorporatemiddle.com/
How To Execute Bad Decisions
Donald has survived mergers, promotions,
re-organizations, and downsizing. Throughout his career he has led multiple
teams of varying sizes consisting of both on and offshore resources. He has
successfully led multi-million-dollar projects and was selected to complete a
two-year program to become a lean six sigma certified black belt. Donald has a
degree in Computer Engineering and an MBA. In-addition to his corporate
experience he has co-founded multiple companies. Donald is an award-winning
speaker and the host of the podcast “The Corporate Middle” where he answers the
most common middle management questions. He is the author of the book
“Surrounded by Insanity: How to Execute Bad Decisions”.
Episode 80 – Transcript
Welcome to another episode of the
sales experience podcast.
episode ends the Management Week and the conversation that I had with Donald
Matter, if you’ve been following along for the whole week, I appreciate it.
Thank you for being here. I’m so glad that you wanted to listen to two crazy
guys, two business nerds, a sales nerd and a management nerd talking about this
stuff and hopefully you got some value from it.
you’re learning from it. This episode is part five where we kind of wrap up our
discussion. I know that we could have kept going and it’s very possible just
knowing me that I may book another time for Donald and me to talk and record it
and just literally see what happens because it was so valuable.
was so fun and I know it covered a lot of different aspects. Again, if you’re a
salesperson, if you’re a manager, if you’re an owner, like all of this
information can apply to you were either it helps you be more empathetic to
everyone involved so you understand what’s going on.
could help you as an owner with how you implement change and what makes sense
or how to roll things out or what to do when everybody’s not doing what you
require, what you need for the sake of the business and maybe you’ve got to
make some bigger changes.
if you’re a salesperson and you’re seeing changes come your way, understanding
the concepts, the logic and everything behind it, especially that sometimes
decisions we don’t like are there for the sake of the whole company surviving
doesn’t do any good if the company runs into an iceberg because nobody wants to
change direction and everyone ends up dying. That doesn’t do the company or its
employees any good. So sometimes there’s changes in place that are only seen
from the really high level and we’ve got to accept those changes or leave and
pick a different organization that operates more of how you want.
this is episode five. Again, make sure you go to the cutter consulting
group.com website. Go to the podcast link, find this episode or any of these
episodes this week to find all the information on Donald where you can find
going to mention some stuff at the end of this episode, but just make sure the
whole transcripts there as well. So if you’d rather read all this again, if
there’s some things you missed, you can go in there and find that as well. I
appreciate you listen to this.
I appreciate you hopefully putting these things into practice in your professional life and maybe even your personal life and I’m so glad that you’re here and for now enjoy the final part of my conversation with Donald.
All right, one last thing that I want to go back to talking about sales managers, so what do you think or how have you dealt with in the past for any sales major you’ve dealt with?
the challenge that I have with them is I’ve got a new policy I need to roll out
or there’s a change or there’s something going on. Going back to the five
stages of grief and what I’m going to get it from that manager when I’m rolling
out a change and whether they agree with that policy or not.
say I’m at the VP level, I’ve got a sales manager, I know they’re not going to
like it. Here’s the challenge I have, sales managers are generally really good
sales people who have been promoted to managers, so they try to sell and that’s
what they focus on and so they are always trying to sell me on why it’s not
going to work and they’re using every tactic. So what do you do about that when
your managers are selling you on the not accepting it, right?
what’s the five stages? The bargaining stage, right? Absolutely. Denial. Anger.
Now they’re bargaining and there, but they’re using their sales skills and that
just hit your heart. What do you do about that? One of the biggest challenges
is people hang on to that bargaining stage way too long.
hit that dead horse as much as they possibly can and that’s where people get
tripped up. And guess what your perception of them is now that they’re high
maintenance. Yep. They don’t even realize what they did. They have no clue what
it’s really, this is what I had advised them. You have the one rebuttal rule.
That’s what I focus on. And I tell my team, you get one chance to change
somebody’s mind after that move on. You’ve got one rebuttal, you get one shot
and I promise you 9% of the time it’s not going to work anyway.
your one shot and move on that it by that one rebuttal as in like, I’m going to
roll out a change. So I’m changing the sales script for example, and they’ve
got one question they can ask me and hit me with and try to fight it or I’m
going to only risk no, usually what a, so what I mean is that they have one
chance to change your mind, Got It.
they’ve got one chance to say, I don’t believe this is going to work and here
is why, right. And if you don’t agree with it you’re done. You move on that’s
it. They don’t get to come back to the well three, four, five times. Right.
that’s actually one of the things I talk about in my book is you know how to
disagree with your boss because it is a, it is fraught with peril if you do it
one of the things I talk about is the right way to do that. And if you’re
dealing with somebody that doesn’t get that right, they’re doing it the wrong
way you know, you’re the boss and they’re coming in and disagreeing with every
basically have to take them aside and let them know what’s going on and just
say hey, I respect your opinion. You’re right, there’s definitely some
challenges with this decision, but here’s what we’re doing and this is the path
forward and I need your help to make sure we can implement this, Right and
you know, the more they do it, you can start talking about some other things,
but that’s the right way to handle that is to take them aside and say, hey, I
appreciate your opinion. A lot of the stuff you’re saying is right, right.
don’t want to just dismiss people’s concerns because a lot of times they’re
valid, right? Anytime you implement something new, there’s going to be
challenges. That’s the point, right? We’ve already talked about that and so you
just got to make sure that one, you address them, you understand them, you can
say that’s great, but you’ve got to pull them aside and say, Hey, listen,
is it,you can’t keep going on and on and on. Right? It’s not productive for
anybody. Let’s, let’s move on and get going. And when that happens, too many
times it starts to move into, and this is back to your perception. It moves
into the, maybe this isn’t a good fit for you type of conversation,exactly.
the thing is, I think most people don’t even know it, right? They don’t even
realize they’re being acquainted sales people who just get into that automatic
sales mode because they’re trying to convince their manager, their manager gets
are just unconscious, and again, they’re doing what they think in their brain.
And what’s interesting is when you have that sales manager who’s doing that,
they’re rebutting and they’re fighting against change and then when their
salespeople do the same thing to them, like they agree with them because that’s
they invite those arguments basically. Yeah, and I think that’s the challenge
is that again, people don’t even realize what they’re doing and it kind of goes
back to some of the things we’ve been talking about, right? The gut reaction is
to fight, right? They want to fight.
want to convince, especially with the sales, right? That’s what they like to do
anyway. They will, you know? Yeah. They’re like, all right it’s a debate time.
We’re ready to go and so you have to make sure one part of the way you head
that off is what we talked about earlier is make sure all the company Mumbo
jumbo and try to figure it out. Right?
have to make sure and do it the right way to help head off some of that and you
have to make sure it’s communicated ahead of time. Here’s what’s happening here’s
the effect it has on you personally. Here’s some of the challenges that we may
have because that’s the thing you can do as a leader too, right?
okay to point out the flaws in your own plan, right? A lot of times we like to
just say, hey, here’s what’s everything amazing about it. It’s okay to say,
here’s the challenges I expect to happen. I need you guys’ help to figure this
it’s okay to point that out. Yeah. Like I said, early on in our conversation,
I’ve always done that just by default because that’s also how I sell. Not
everything you sell like as a sales person is 100% perfect.
always some downside. There’s always a negative, you know even if it’s the
greatest thing on the planet, but it’s a 12 month contract and somebody may not
like that or it’s the greatest thing on the planet, but it may affect your
credit a certain way and it’s still going to help you.
always a negative, and I have always brought up those negatives because I know
that transparency is super important for getting the sale done the right way. Long-term,
not just in the moment but long term. So they’re still a client.
when they wake up at two o’clock in the morning, they’re not freaking out about
something they didn’t know about. They remember I shared with them and I think
that’s the same way with management, change management, dealing with sales
teams, sales managers, is to also share that that good and bad, hey, we’re
going to make more money, however it’s going to take more work or you’re going
to have to focus on x, Y, and z instead. Yeah, that’s different. But you know
there’s good and bad with it. And Ben, it’s up to you. And I’ve always said
that, and this is totally up to you whether you want to go with this change or
think most salespeople, especially the really, really good ones, understand
people. They get it, they understand empathy, they understand perspective, they
understand what motivates people. But for some reason when they get into some
sort of leadership role, they throw all of that out the window.
just throw it out and either they become a dictator or they just try to apply
their own personality to everybody across the group. As we talked about, you
already know the skills needed to be successful as a salesperson, you literally
use them every single day.
are the same. Whether you’re customers, employees, your peers, teammates,
they’re pretty much the same. If you actually would look at it that way and
understand that and apply it, you’re going to be successful or there we go.
think that’s a good way to end to this episode. Donald, thank you so much for
being here. In case people don’t check out the show notes and the
transcription, where can people find you get in contact with you, find your
my book is available on Amazon surrounded by insanity, how to execute bad
decisions, which covers a lot of the stuff that we’ve talked about today is how
to function as a manager. When you’re asked to do something you may not believe
in, and even just as an individual, you know how to have that leadership and be
successful in those types of environments.
can also find me on Donald [inaudible] dot com and I also have a podcast, as
you mentioned, called the corporate middle, which is available on any of your
podcasts providers where I talked about a lot of these topics on how to be
successful as a leader in a corporation and its Donald meter, m e a d o r.com.
got it, Perfect all right. Thanks Donald appreciates it. This was fun absolutely,