Nina Sossamon-Pogue was a member of the US National Gymnastics Team, an Emmy-winning news anchor, and a tech executive who helped guide a startup to a successful IPO.But Nina’s incredible career wasn’t a straight line - it was a series of reinventions born from a series of devastating setbacks.

 An injury that ended her athletic career. A layoff at the height of her popularity as a newscaster. A tragedy that made being in front of the camera unbearable. Each time, Nina was forced to ask the question we all dread: What now?

Nina’s search for an answer led her to study resilience and how people can not just survive serious challenges, but thrive.  Her research became the book “This is Not the End: Strategies to Get You Through the Worst Chapters of Your Life”

In this episode, Nina joins Brenda to share the hard-won strategies that help us not just survive our worst chapters, but thrive. They discuss how to reframe terrible lows as isolated moments in time, why most of us define resilience the wrong way, and the single question that shift your momentum forward.

We’ve all been knocked down. This is your masterclass in the art of getting back up.

For more, check out Nina...

On LinkedIn - /ninasossamonpogue

On Facebook - /NinaTheAuthor

On Instagram - @nina_sp.eaks

On TikTok - @ninasossp

On the Web - ninasossamonpogue.com

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At AnitaB.org, our mission is to enable and equip women technologists with the tools, resources, and knowledge they need to thrive. Through innovative programs and initiatives, we empower women to chart new paths, better prepared to lead, advance, and achieve equitable compensation. Because when women succeed, they uplift their communities and redefine success on their terms, both professionally and personally.

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Connect with AnitaB.org

Instagram - @anitab_org

Facebook - /anitab.0rg

LinkedIn - /anitab-org

On the web - anitab.org 

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Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.

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B The Way Forward Is…

Hosted and Executive Produced by Brenda Darden Wilkerson.

Produced by Avi Glijansky

Associate Produced by Kelli Kyle

Sound design and editing by Ryan Hammond 

Mixing and mastering by Julian Kwasneski 

Additional Producing help from Faith Krogulecki

Operations Coordination for AnitaB.org by Quinton Sprull.

Creative Director for AnitaB.org is Deandra Coleman

Executive Produced by Dominique Ferrari, Stacey Book, and Avi Glijansky for Frequency Machine 

Photo of Brenda Darden Wilkerson by Mandisa Media Productions

For more ways to be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org

Silicon Valley loves the story of a College Dropout Founder - the genius who was just too brilliant for school. The implication of these stories is that of course they could graduate if they wanted to… it just wouldn’t be worth their time. But for every one of those, there are countless others who leave not because they want to, but because they have to.

Computer scientist, Technologist, and tEQuitable Founder, Lisa Gelobter was one of them. And while finances played a big part, so did her deep struggle with something intrinsic to college coursework. Writing. Math and code came easy, but writing a paper was like being forced to write in perfect script with your left hand… despite being right-handed. The vision was there, but the execution felt impossible.

In this episode, Lisa opens up about the 24-year long road to her college degree - a commitment she made to herself while doing groundbreaking work on the invention of Shockwave and holding leadership roles at Hulu, BET, and even the Obama Administration.

Plus, Lisa chats with Brenda about the sources of her confidence, the power of perseverance and how to accept your limitations - without ever letting them limit you.

/lisagelobter

And Find out more about tEQuitable on the web - .tequitable.com

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At AnitaB.org, our mission is to enable and equip women technologists with the tools, resources, and knowledge they need to thrive. Through innovative programs and initiatives, we empower women to chart new paths, better prepared to lead, advance, and achieve equitable compensation. Because when women succeed, they uplift their communities and redefine success on their terms, both professionally and personally.

---

Connect with AnitaB.org

Instagram - @anitab_org

Facebook - /anitab.0rg

LinkedIn - /anitab-org

On the web - anitab.org 

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Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.

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B The Way Forward Is…

Hosted and Executive Produced by Brenda Darden Wilkerson.

Produced by Avi Glijansky

Associate Produced by Kelli Kyle

Sound design and editing by Ryan Hammond 

Mixing and mastering by Julian Kwasneski 

Additional Producing help from Faith Krogulecki

Operations Coordination for AnitaB.org by Quinton Sprull.

Creative Director for AnitaB.org is Deandra Coleman

Executive Produced by Dominique Ferrari, Stacey Book, and Avi Glijansky for Frequency Machine 

Photo of Brenda Darden Wilkerson by Mandisa Media Productions

For more ways to be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org

Disclaimer: This episode includes brief use of strong language. As part of our mission to support real, lived experiences in tech, we’ve chosen to preserve the authenticity of this conversation.

2023 was not a great year for Betsy Tong. Only three years after losing her mother to cancer, Betsy found herself navigating a series of personal challenges - a sick father, the end of a long-term relationship - and sudden unemployment at the age of 56. 

For years, Betsy had been a near-unstoppable Tech Industry badass, leading teams that developed complex systems for companies like IBM, Lenovo, Symantec, and Intel. But now, just when she thought she’d be able to coast and enjoy the payoff of all her hard work, Betsy’s entire life felt like it was falling apart. For the first time in decades, Betsy had no idea what her next step was - or how she’d achieve it without the clout of a big company behind her.

But, Betsy did figure it out, and in this episode she talks to Brenda about how she set aside fear, resolved to reinvent herself, and ultimately found purpose - and a thriving second act - in helping other women do the same through her consulting firm, FocusOS.

Brenda and Betsy talk about what it takes to release outdated assumptions, rebuild the architecture of our authority, and recognize the unexpected people who help us find our way, like Betsy’s own “Shannon.”

For more, check out Betsy on...

LinkedIn

And, read The Edge : Your Brain on AI, the book that Betsy set out to write in 72 hours!

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At AnitaB.org, our mission is to enable and equip women technologists with the tools, resources, and knowledge they need to thrive. Through innovative programs and initiatives, we empower women to chart new paths, better prepared to lead, advance, and achieve equitable compensation. Because when women succeed, they uplift their communities and redefine success on their terms, both professionally and personally.

---

Connect with AnitaB.org

Instagram - @anitab_org

Facebook - /anitab.0rg

LinkedIn - /anitab-org

On the web - anitab.org 

---

Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.

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B The Way Forward Is…

Hosted and Executive Produced by Brenda Darden Wilkerson.

Produced by Avi Glijansky

Associate Produced by Kelli Kyle

Sound design and editing by Ryan Hammond 

Mixing and mastering by Julian Kwasneski 

Additional Producing help from Faith Krogulecki

Operations Coordination for AnitaB.org by Quinton Sprull.

Creative Director for AnitaB.org is Deandra Coleman

Executive Produced by Dominique Ferrari, Stacey Book, and Avi Glijansky for Frequency Machine 

Photo of Brenda Darden Wilkerson by Mandisa Media Productions

For more ways to be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org

Lately, we’ve been talking to some of the most incredible women in Tech about some of the most non-incredible moments in their careers - stories of setbacks, mistakes that felt unrecoverable, and outcomes that seemed like failures.  We’ve been doing this because we want all of you in our community to know you’re not alone - this happens to all of us. We truly believe that you can learn some of the most important lessons from the times you think things went irrevocably wrong.

But what about when you feel like the career ladder has just broken beneath you despite doing great work? Why does it sometimes seem like the only option is to leave the tech field behind instead of finding new ways forward?

In this episode, Brenda sits down with Lareina Yee — senior partner at McKinsey, co-author of “The Broken Rung,” and champion for women in tech — to talk about setbacks, resilience, and the real strategies that help women move forward during those crucial forks in their career paths.

Lareina gets real about micro-failures, the power of honest feedback, and why bold career moves matter. Plus, why building your own “board of directors” can be a game-changer, and how to pack a “round trip ticket” for your career — no matter how long you plan to step away.

Whether you’re navigating your own broken rung, considering a big leap, or just need a reminder that you’re not alone, Brenda and Lareina have you covered with practical advice, actionable insights, and the support to keep climbing, no matter how high on the ladder you are.

For more, check out Lareina on...

LinkedIn - /lareinayee

And you can find out more about The Broken Rung, and order your own copy, here.

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At AnitaB.org, our mission is to enable and equip women technologists with the tools, resources, and knowledge they need to thrive. Through innovative programs and initiatives, we empower women to chart new paths, better prepared to lead, advance, and achieve equitable compensation. Because when women succeed, they uplift their communities and redefine success on their terms, both professionally and personally.

---

Connect with AnitaB.org

Instagram - @anitab_org

Facebook - /anitab.0rg

LinkedIn - /anitab-org

On the web - anitab.org 

---

Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.

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B The Way Forward Is…

Hosted and Executive Produced by Brenda Darden Wilkerson.

Produced by Avi Glijansky

Associate Produced by Kelli Kyle

Sound design and editing by Ryan Hammond 

Mixing and mastering by Julian Kwasneski 

Additional Producing help from Faith Krogulecki

Operations Coordination for AnitaB.org by Quinton Sprull.

Creative Director for AnitaB.org is Deandra Coleman

Executive Produced by Dominique Ferrari, Stacey Book, and Avi Glijansky for Frequency Machine 

Photo of Brenda Darden Wilkerson by Mandisa Media Productions

For more ways to be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org

Welcome to B The Way Forward Interludes - a series of conversations that don’t necessarily fit in our regular season, but are just too good to not share.

Dr. Timnit Gebru is one of the leading voices in AI research calling for more responsible and inclusive AI systems.  Or, as she puts it - “a technological future that serves our communities instead of one that is used for surveillance, warfare, and the centralization of power by Silicon Valley.”  As the Founder and Executive Director of the Distributed Artificial Intelligence Research Institute (DAIR), Timnit isn’t just calling out the dangers of Big Tech’s approach to AI - she and her colleagues are working to forge new approaches and new ways to imagine what our future can look like. 

In part 2 of our conversation, Timnit shares why the “Distributed” aspect of DAIR is so important, the kinds of projects they undertake that could never be done within the halls of Big Tech or Academia, and why the current method of designing LLM’s flies in the face of core engineering principles.  

Plus, you all had a lot of questions about AI at our recent Responsible AI Forum by AnitaB.org - and Timnit has some answers for you.

For more, connect with Timnit

For more, check out Timnit and her work...

On Bluesky - @timnitgebru.bsky.social‬

On Mastodon - @[email protected]

On LinkedIn - /timnit-gebru-7b3b407

On X - @timnitGebru

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At AnitaB.org, our mission is to enable and equip women technologists with the tools, resources, and knowledge they need to thrive. Through innovative programs and initiatives, we empower women to chart new paths, better prepared to lead, advance, and achieve equitable compensation. Because when women succeed, they uplift their communities and redefine success on their terms, both professionally and personally.

---

Connect with AnitaB.org

Instagram - @anitab_org

Facebook - /anitab.0rg

LinkedIn - /anitab-org

On the web - anitab.org 

---

Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.

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B The Way Forward Is…

Hosted and Executive Produced by Brenda Darden Wilkerson.

Produced by Avi Glijansky

Associate Produced by Kelli Kyle

Sound design and editing by Ryan Hammond 

Mixing and mastering by Julian Kwasneski 

Additional Producing help from Faith Krogulecki

Operations Coordination for AnitaB.org by Quinton Sprull.

Creative Director for AnitaB.org is Deandra Coleman

Executive Produced by Dominique Ferrari, Stacey Book, and Avi Glijansky for Frequency Machine 

Photo of Brenda Darden Wilkerson by Mandisa Media Productions

For more ways to be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org

Welcome to B The Way Forward Interludes - a series of conversations that don’t necessarily fit in our regular season, but are just too good to not share.

Heard something about AI Lately? Have those two letters shown up in just about every app you use - whether you want them to or not? Yeah. Same. These days, it seems like  you can’t go an hour without hearing that Artificial Intelligence is going to radically remake our world. But… is it? There’s so much hype it can be hard to really know what people even mean when they say AI. It  can’t all be ChatGPT helping you with cover letters and AI-generated images of the Balenciaga Pope, can it?

Dr. Timnit Gebru is one of the voices speaking loudly and honestly about AI outside of the Big Tech hype bubble. And she has the bonafides to back that up. Timnit holds a BA, Masters and a PhD in Electrical Engineering and Computer Vision from Stanford. Plus, She co-led Google’s Ethical AI research team… until, in 2020, she and her co-lead sounded the alarm about the potential harms of large language models in a paper they titled “On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots: Can Language Models Be Too Big.” 

That paper led to an abrupt end to her time at Google. But Timnit hasn’t stopped working on how AI and Machine Learning can be developed in ways that serve all communities - most recently as the co-founder and Executive Director of DAIR.

In part 1 of our  2-part conversation, we talk about what AI is and isn’t, the difference between AI summers and AI winters, and why bigger isn’t always better when it comes to language Models.

For more, check out Timnit and her work...

On Bluesky - @timnitgebru.bsky.social‬

On Mastodon - @[email protected]

On LinkedIn - /timnit-gebru-7b3b407

On X - @timnitGebru

And read Timnit, and Emily M. Bender's paper, ⁠“On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots: Can Language Models Be Too Big.”⁠ 

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At AnitaB.org, our mission is to enable and equip women technologists with the tools, resources, and knowledge they need to thrive. Through innovative programs and initiatives, we empower women to chart new paths, better prepared to lead, advance, and achieve equitable compensation. Because when women succeed, they uplift their communities and redefine success on their terms, both professionally and personally.

---

Connect with AnitaB.org

Instagram - @anitab_org

Facebook - /anitab.0rg

LinkedIn - /anitab-org

On the web - anitab.org 

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Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.

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B The Way Forward Is…

Hosted and Executive Produced by Brenda Darden Wilkerson.

Produced by Avi Glijansky

Associate Produced by Kelli Kyle

Sound design and editing by Ryan Hammond 

Mixing and mastering by Julian Kwasneski 

Additional Producing help from Faith Krogulecki

Operations Coordination for AnitaB.org by Quinton Sprull.

Creative Director for AnitaB.org is Deandra Coleman

Executive Produced by Dominique Ferrari, Stacey Book, and Avi Glijansky for Frequency Machine 

Photo of Brenda Darden Wilkerson by Mandisa Media Productions

For more ways to be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org

At 16, Shellye Archambeau already knew she wanted to be a CEO. And early in her career at IBM, after closing a massive deal with RiteAid, it felt like she was well on her way. But then, at the last minute, the deal fell through. Shellye felt utterly defeated - until a conversation with her husband helped her realize that there had been a failure … but that didn’t mean she was a failure.

Shellye went on to have a thriving career at IBM and beyond, with the lessons learned from that early setback helping her overcome all the challenges she faced along the way. By the time Shellye became CEO of the software company Metricstream, she felt like she was ready to handle anything. But then the Great Recession of 2008 hit. Just like that, business dried up. Suddenly, Shellye was faced with one of the most difficult decisions of her career. Would they fold? Or would they fight?

In this episode, Shellye joins Brenda to talk about the importance of demonstrating resilience as a leader when times get tough, why a great team is everything, and how you can turn your lowest career moments into a productive story to share in your next job interview. 

For more, check out Shellye and her work...

On LinkedIn - /shellye-archambeau

On Instagram - @shelarchambeau

On X - @ShelArchambeau

On the Web - shellye.com

And check out Shelley's latest book, Unapologetically Ambitious

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At  AnitaB.org  we  challenge  the  systems  and  misconceptions  that  limit  human potential. What  sets  us  apart  is  our  unwavering  commitment  to  disrupting  the status  quo  while  honoring  the  full  humanity  of  every  individual.  We  cultivate spaces where people can be vulnerable, seen, and supported without judgement. Because progress starts with truth, empathy, and the courage to build something better for all.

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Connect with AnitaB.org

Instagram - @anitab_org

Facebook - /anitab.0rg

LinkedIn - /anitab-org

On the web - anitab.org 

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Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.

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B The Way Forward Is…

Hosted and Executive Produced by Brenda Darden Wilkerson.

Produced by Avi Glijansky

Associate Produced by Kelli Kyle

Sound design and editing by Ryan Hammond 

Mixing and mastering by Julian Kwasneski 

Additional Producing help from Faith Krogulecki

Operations Coordination for AnitaB.org by Quinton Sprull.

Creative Director for AnitaB.org is Deandra Coleman

Executive Produced by Dominique Ferrari, Stacey Book, and Avi Glijansky for Frequency Machine 

Photo of Brenda Darden Wilkerson by Mandisa Media Productions
For more ways to be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org

Amanda Bickerstaff had a plan and a goal.  When she transitioned from being a teacher in NY to working in Ed Tech, she knew she wanted to make it to CEO - and that the only jobs she’d take would be the ones that would get her one step closer to the C-Suite. In the fall of 2019, at only 39 years old, she moved to Australia to make that goal a reality as the newly minted CEO of an Ed Tech Company whose founding CEO had needed to step back from the role.

It was a dream job. Until it became a nightmare. Leading a startup is always a huge challenge, but Amanda found herself on the other side of the world, locked down during COVID, and caught between her role as an Executive CEO and the company’s founders who just couldn’t seem to let go and let her to do the job they’d hired her for.

So what did Amanda do? Like a lot of ambitious entrepreneurs, she threw herself even more deeply into the role. But 100 hour weeks, sleepless nights, and the lack of trust between her and the company’s founders soon became untenable. Amanda found herself having to choose between her own well-being and the position she’d been working so hard for.

How did Amanda find a way to turn a dream opportunity turned nightmare into the groundwork for the thriving, fulfilling, and successful role she has today as the Co-Founder and CEO of AI For Education? What did she learn about the value of making concessions … and the necessity of knowing when to walk away? And what does any of this have to do with advice on shoes, car leases, and PH.D programs? 

The answers are all in this episode of B The Way Forward.

For more, check out Amanda an AI for Education...

On Instagram - @AI_forEducation

On TikTok - @aiforeducation

On X - @AI_forEducation

AI for Education on LinkedIn - /aiforeducation

Amanda on LinkedIn - /amanda-bickerstaff-edu

AI for Education on the Web - www.aiforeducation.io

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At our heart, AnitaB.org is a connector: we connect women in tech to the organizations, opportunities, and tools they need to advance, thrive, and transform the future of technology. We convene transformative events, lead essential discussions, produce groundbreaking research and white papers, and support the tech ecosystem to shape the future for women in tech. 

---

Connect with AnitaB.org

Instagram - @anitab_org

Facebook - /anitab.0rg

LinkedIn - /anitab-org

On the web - anitab.org 

---

Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.

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B The Way Forward Is…

Hosted and Executive Produced by Brenda Darden Wilkerson.

Produced by Avi Glijansky

Associate Produced by Kelli Kyle

Sound design and editing by Ryan Hammond 

Mixing and mastering by Julian Kwasneski 

Additional Producing help from Faith Krogulecki

Operations Coordination for AnitaB.org by Quinton Sprull.

Creative Director for AnitaB.org is Deandra Coleman

Executive Produced by Dominique Ferrari, Stacey Book, and Avi Glijansky for Frequency Machine 

Podcast Marketing from Lauren Passell with Tink Media in partnership with Coley Bouschet at AnitaB.org

Photo of Brenda Darden Wilkerson by Mandisa Media Productions

For more ways to be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org

Today, as leader of the Talent Strategies program at the Berkeley lab, Dr. Rebecca Andersen has a thriving career in professional development. But back when she was in the middle stages of her career, a toxic work environment, and its effects on her, nearly derailed it all.

On the one hand, from a job performance standpoint, she was killing it. She was at the top of her game, giving talks, winning awards, and leading her team to success. On the other hand, that same success seemed to paint a target on her back. She was constantly being criticised for seemingly contradictory reasons. No matter what she did she felt like she couldn’t win, and she found herself questioning her every move.  It was full on fight or flight mode… All. The. Time.

And it was only a matter of time before she reached her breaking point - alone in her office, crying under her desk, desperately wishing she could escape her situation somehow.

Rebecca’s story could have ended there - with her leaving her job, and maybe her field, and never returning.  Instead, she did something brave - she openly took a mental health break, creating the space for healing that would eventually help her understand what had happened, and how she could make sure it never happened again.

In this episode, Rebecca tells Brenda about what she learned from that lowest of low experiences, how she came to realize that not everyone deserves a seat at your validation table, and why it’s so important to realize failing at something does not make you a failure.

For more, check out Dr. Rebecca Andersen...

On LinkedIn - /rebeccakandersen

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At our heart, AnitaB.org is a connector: we connect women in tech to the organizations, opportunities, and tools they need to advance, thrive, and transform the future of technology. We convene transformative events, lead essential discussions, produce groundbreaking research and white papers, and support the tech ecosystem to shape the future for women in tech. 

---

Connect with AnitaB.org

Instagram - @anitab_org

Facebook - /anitab.0rg

LinkedIn - /anitab-org

On the web - anitab.org 

---

Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.

---

B The Way Forward Is…

Hosted and Executive Produced by Brenda Darden Wilkerson.

Produced by Avi Glijansky

Associate Produced by Kelli Kyle

Sound design and editing by Ryan Hammond 

Mixing and mastering by Julian Kwasneski 

Additional Producing help from Faith Krogulecki

Operations Coordination for AnitaB.org by Quinton Sprull.

Creative Director for AnitaB.org is Deandra Coleman

Executive Produced by Dominique Ferrari, Stacey Book, and Avi Glijansky for Frequency Machine 

Photo of Brenda Darden Wilkerson by Mandisa Media Productions

For more ways to be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org

Marco Polo CEO, Vlada Borthnik, almost said no to being on our podcast. It wasn’t that she wasn’t a fan of AnitaB.org or didn’t believe in its mission, it was that we’d asked her to talk about failure… and Vlada almost totally rejects the notion of “failure” on principle.

Instead, Vlada advocates for throwing away the binary lens of “success” and “failure” and instead to reframe things as experiments and their outcomes.  Because even when the outcome isn’t what you’d hoped for, you can still learn from it. And maybe that learning will set you up for a different outcome next time. Fortunately for us, Vlada came around.

In this episode, she talks to Brenda about why she feels so strongly that it's time for us all to stop fearing failure and embrace the idea it’s all about experimentation and learning from outcomes - whether they’re good or bad. Vlada also shares how the challenges of coming to the US as a refuge when she was 11 set her up for her future as an entrepreneur, why you should worry less about communication at work being messy, and focus instead on making sure you have systems in place to clean those messes up, and how Marco Polo’s culture of constant experimentation has led to its success. Plus, Brenda’s top three takeaways from the conversion.

For more, check out Vlada...

On LinkedIn - /in/vlada/

On Facebook - /onmarcopolo

On Instagram - @marcopoloapp

And if you're curious about Marco Polo, you can download the app for iOS or Android.

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At our heart, AnitaB.org is a connector: we connect women in tech to the organizations, opportunities, and tools they need to advance, thrive, and transform the future of technology. We convene transformative events, lead essential discussions, produce groundbreaking research and white papers, and support the tech ecosystem to shape the future for women in tech. 

---

Connect with AnitaB.org

Instagram - @anitab_org

Facebook - /anitab.0rg

LinkedIn - /anitab-org

On the web - anitab.org 

---

Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.

---

B The Way Forward Is…

Hosted and Executive Produced by Brenda Darden Wilkerson.

Produced by Avi Glijansky

Associate Produced by Kelli Kyle

Sound design and editing by Ryan Hammond 

Mixing and mastering by Julian Kwasneski 

Additional Producing help from Faith Krogulecki

Operations Coordination for AnitaB.org by Quinton Sprull.

Creative Director for AnitaB.org is Deandra Coleman

Executive Produced by Dominique Ferrari, Stacey Book, and Avi Glijansky for Frequency Machine 

For more ways to be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org