Becoming Nature Podcast

If you care about something, you don't always need to win with facts.

You need to invite people in.

Today's guest is anthropoligist Rune Kier.

One of the things that stayed with me from this conversation was the question of what happens when we stop treating communication as a battle to be won.

Because when something matters deeply to us — the climate, the living world, the future, our communities — it can be tempting to reach for more facts. More evidence. A stronger argument. The perfect response to someone who doesn't see what we see.

But facts don't exist outside of relationship.

And people don't always need more data. Sometimes they need a story they can enter. A perspective they can recognise. A way of talking about what matters that doesn't require them to first agree with us.

A few things from this conversation stayed with me:

• People don't always need more data — they need a story they can feel. • "I'm concerned" can be enough to begin a conversation. • The right words are often the ones that sound like your life, rather than a debate. • Sharing what we notice can create more space than telling someone what they should think.

That's a shift from persuasion to perspective.

From "let me prove it" to "let me show you how I see it."

And perhaps this is especially important when we are talking about something as complex and personal as our relationship with the living world.

We don't all have to speak like experts.

We can speak from where we stand.

Maybe the most powerful thing we can say is not:

"I'm certain."

But:

"I'm here. I noticed. And I care."

Save this if you've ever felt caught between being accurate and being real.

In this conversation, I sit down with Ryan James Kemp and explore the deep connections between humans and nature, the importance of relational and embodied awareness, and the paradigm shifts needed for a regenerative future.

We dig into concepts like 'new with a K', relational systems, spiritual intelligence, and the infra crisis, offering profound insights into living in harmony with the Earth.

And we talk about elders and have a few moments of stillness, which I love in these conversations. The conversation has swirled with me through the Summer. I've connected it to the old stories that I love so much, and Ryan brought language to something that I have not yet had.

• Relational systems and paradigmatic depth perception

• The concept of 'new with a K' and its implications for perception

• The importance of embodied awareness and relational intelligence

• The infra crisis and its roots in underlying systemic patterns

• The process of becoming and remembering our connection to nature

• The significance of relational language and sensing in spiritual practice

• The role of consciousness and perception in shaping the future

• The importance of creating conditions for life to thrive, not just fixing problems

Ryan James Kemp is a Relational Systems Futurist and founder of (re)Biz, the world's first systems thinking un/school. He is the creator of Liberating Futures Thinking and Relational Attunement, an emerging body of work exploring how the ways we perceive and relate shape the futures we create. Drawing from systems thinking, Indigenous knowledge, living systems, and organizational practice, Ryan works with leaders and institutions seeking to cultivate wiser leadership in an increasingly interconnected world.

Is fashion more than just what we wear?

In this episode, I speak with Carry Somers who shares her research and insights on the deep relationship between textiles, history, and the environment, emphasizing the importance of understanding the origins and stories behind our fibers to foster a more sustainable and reciprocal relationship with nature.

From ancient fibres like oak bark used millions of years ago to modern discoveries in lakes, the story of fabric is a story of our relationship with the Earth.

The fascinating part, natural fibres might have more potential than we think, if we look at them through a different lens.This isn't just about sustainability it's about recognizing our impact and reconnecting with the roots of our clothes.

What's one small thing you could do today to honor that story? Maybe dye a sheet with wild plants or ask brands about their fibres.

• Research findings on fibers in Rudyard Lake and their implications

• The history of natural fibers and their cultural significance

• The importance of storytelling and understanding the origins of textiles

• The relationship between humans and nature through fibers

• Innovations in natural dyeing and fiber cultivation

If you enjoyed this episode please help us reach a little further into the stream, share, subscribe, review.

Thank you.

In this episode, Joshua shares the profound impact of exploring the so-called "leftover" lands—places long dismissed as lifeless or inconvenient—that he now sees as sacred and bursting with biodiversity. You'll discover how his immersive travels through desert dunes, salt flats, and sagebrush oceans rewrote his understanding of beauty and purpose in nature, and why these underdog landscapes deserve our attention and care.

This conversation, as many of the others, was a long time in the making and I am truly grateful that it came together. His book is beautiful, and even more so the heart of his work. Relevance that goes way beyond the borders of the US.

The deeper we got into the conversation, the clearer this line became: true beauty often whispers, not screams. It's a reminder that sometimes, we need to slow down — to really see; to be present.

Joshua Jackson is a writer and photographer whose work explores the overlooked public lands of the American west.

His work has appeared in The Guardian, Los Angeles Times, High Country News, SFGATE, and Adventure Journal, among others. He has also been a featured guest on numerous podcasts exploring nature, science, and conservation. His first book, The Enduring Wild: A Journey into California's Public Lands (Heyday, 2025), winner of the Golden Poppy Award and a Foreword INDIES finalist, is both a love letter to these landscapes and a meditation on belonging and reciprocity.

As founder of the Forgotten Lands Project, Josh gives keynote talks on public lands and place attachment, engages in storytelling collaborations with conservation organizations, and guides camping trips with the USAL Project that connect people directly to these fragile and inspiring landscapes.

He lives with his wife and three children in the heart of Los Angeles.

Find him here:

Website

Instagram

I sit down with Ruth Allen and we talk about her journey to writing 'Weathering', her insights into eco psychology, and the importance of relationality in therapy. We explore the complexities of nature connection, the role of language in articulating experiences, and the expectations surrounding nature therapy.

We get into the need for humility in understanding our relationship with nature and the significance of staying present in both human and ecological relationships. We also get real about the act of commitment, the concept of weathering, and the relationship between decay and personal growth.

Ruth shares how rocks can serve as a metaphor for understanding our own lives and the importance of being present in the moment, the challenges of facing decay and loneliness, while also emphasizing the value of commitment to living fully and authentically. And we dwell on the interconnectedness of life, death, and the natural world, encouraging listeners to embrace the complexities of existence.

About Ruth Allen

Ruth is a writer/author, embodied psychotherapist and writing facilitator and mentor. She has written two books Weathering (Penguin Random House, 2024) and Grounded(Hachette, 2021) and is currently writing her third book publishing with PRH in 2027. She also writes and illustrates zines which she self-publishes to explore ideas and preoccupations that arise 'between book projects' and which push the boundaries of genre and form.

Combining her doctorate in geology with innovative body-based and creative techniques drawing on a multitude of psychological teachings and influences, she offers therapy, mentoring, workshops, classes and adventure retreats – all practical, slow magic – designed to help others connect with their bodies, their words, and the rest of nature through depth-full enquiry and practices that extend our capacity to listen and nurture deep resonance with the world around us.

In this episode of the Becoming Nature podcast, host we sit down to talk about the fifth volume of the Elementals series with editors Gavin Van Horn and Nickole Brown. We explore the themes of kinship, belonging, and the urgent need for awareness of the elemental forces that shape our lives.

The conversation delves into the indifference of the elements, the cultural shifts needed to respect them, and the importance of community and gratitude in our relationship with nature. The episode concludes with reflections on the power of light and an invitation to engage more deeply with the natural world.

Takeaways

• The Elementals series emphasizes the interconnectedness of all life.
• Community plays a crucial role in navigating environmental challenges.
• Gratitude is essential in our relationship with nature.
• The elements can be both life-giving and destructive.
• Cultural shifts are necessary to foster a deeper connection with the elements.
• Poetry serves as a powerful medium to express elemental experiences.
• The urgency of climate change calls for immediate action and awareness.
• We must learn to love and respect the elements as vital forces of life.
• Engagement with nature can lead to a sense of purpose and belonging.

In this conversation, Leora and I discuss the Earth Elementals volume, exploring themes of inheritance, responsibility, and the interconnectedness of life. Leora shares her journey as a geographer and poet, emphasizing the importance of understanding our relationship with the earth and its elements. The discussion highlights the diverse contributions of various authors, the intimacy of storytelling, and the significance of memory and history in shaping our future. They reflect on the power of poetry and the need for cooperation in addressing environmental challenges.We speak to the profound perspectives that emerge from the contributions to the Elementals volume.

NOTE: THE SOUND IS AT TIMES A BIT 'CLICKY' DUE TO A FAULTY MICROFON. THIS COULD NOT BE FIXED DURING EDITING. WE DECIDED TO KEEP IT, AS LEORA HAS SO MANY VALID INSIGHT AND THOUGHT.

Thank you for listening.

Takeaways

• Inheritance is complex, involving responsibility and creativity.

• Research should focus on recovering relationships with nature.

• The earth is a living entity that teaches us about life.

• Storytelling creates intimacy and connection with the earth.

• Each author's voice in the volume offers unique perspectives.

• Understanding history is crucial for survival and thriving together.

• Indigenous knowledge holds valuable lessons for contemporary issues.

• Poetry can change consciousness and perspective.

• Cooperation is essential for learning from the earth.

This episode is the second of our podcast special, in a collaboration special with the Center for Humans and Nature. It is series that celebrates the Center's series 'Elementals' as well as a celebration of the many voices that contributed to the series. It is a great honor to finally shares these episodes with you.

In this episode I'm joined by writer and friend Nicholas Triolo. We explore the multifaceted nature of air represented in the volume. We discuss its significance in both personal and societal contexts. We delve into the concept of air bars and the economic implications of commodifying air. The role of air in communication and connection. The discussion also touches on environmental justice, the importance of breath in existence, and the power of language and poetry to convey the essence of air. We speak to the profound perspectives that emerge from the contributions to the Elementals volume.

He reads from his essay as well as Ross Gay's poem 'A small needless fact'.

This was a rich conversation.

This episode is the second of our podcast special, in a collaboration special with the Center for Humans and Nature. It is series that celebrates the Center's series 'Elemental' as well as a celebration of the many voices that contributed to the series. It is a great honor to finally shares these episodes with you.

Writers Lyanda Haupt and Hannah Close join me in a conversation about water. We go with the flow of it all, moving through thoughts on how water is essential for various life forms, emphasizing its role in sustaining ecosystems. Lyanda shares her story of the American dipper, a bird that thrives in aquatic environments. The dipper's health is directly linked to the quality of the water and the presence of salmon, which provide nourishment.

Hannah expands on this idea by discussing the concept of Eros, describing how water is a unifying force that connects all life. She states, "Without the ocean and without the unifying integrative force of Eros, there would be no life."

They both share insights into their work, which blends, poetry, creative non-fiction with scientific perspectives, emphasizing the importance of honor and wonder in connecting with the more-than-human world.

Tune in to discover the profound perspectives that emerge from their contributions to the Elementals volume and to hear how water shapes our understanding of nature and ourselves.

They both read from their work as well as share their perspectives on the importance of looking at the world through the lens of the elements.

And please don't forget to subcribe, share and leave a review. Thank you.

This episode is the first of 5 episode of a collaboration with the Center for Humans and Nature. It is a series to celebrate the Center's series 'Elemental' as well as a celebration of the many voices that contributed to the series. It is a great honor to finally shares these episodes with you.

In this episode of our special, I sit down with nature writer Isaac Yuen and contributor Rina Garcia Cua. We delve into the theme of fire, exploring its multifaceted significance and the personal and collective narratives surrounding this elemental force.

They both share insights into their work, which blends, poetry, creative non-fiction with scientific perspectives, emphasizing the importance of honor and wonder in connecting with the more-than-human world.

Tune in to discover the profound perspectives that emerge from their contributions to the Elementals volume and to hear how fire shapes our understanding of nature and ourselves.

They both read from their work as well as share their perspectives on the importance of looking at the world through the lens of the elements.

with Isaac Yeun and Rina Garcia Chua

If you enjoyed this episode please comment, share, rate and review.

Thank you so much