Before the Applause Podcast

Step behind the curtain with Dan Shipton, the visionary creative director whose spectacular work has dazzled millions worldwide. As co-founder of Black Skull Creative, Dan has crafted some of entertainment's most unforgettable moments—from Sam Ryder's Eurovision triumph to Jade Thirlwall's groundbreaking Brits performance, and the awe-inspiring spectacles of London 2012.

What makes Dan's approach unique is his unwavering commitment to storytelling. "Every performance we create has a story at its heart," he reveals, explaining how this narrative foundation anchors all creative decisions, even when the audience never explicitly sees it. His philosophy that technology should "enable us to confuse the audience" rather than being the focal point has led to magical moments that leave viewers wondering, "How did they do that?"

Dan's journey from technical theatre training to BAFTA-winning creative director offers valuable insights for anyone pursuing a creative path. His early days stage managing TV shows like SMTV Live and The Royal Variety Performance gave him crucial experience before founding Black Skull Creative, now celebrating its 10th anniversary. Throughout his career, Dan has prioritised building meaningful relationships with artists, becoming what he calls "ghost writers" who amplify their clients' visions rather than imposing their own.

For those looking to break into creative industries, Dan offers practical wisdom: "Don't wait for it to come to you. Go out and find it." His own story demonstrates the power of pursuing passion projects alongside day jobs—directing music videos while stage managing, exploring creative direction opportunities while working on Olympic ceremonies. This relentless pursuit of growth has established him as one of entertainment's most innovative forces.

Whether you're an aspiring creative or simply fascinated by how spectacular performances come together, this conversation pulls back the curtain on the collaborative magic that happens long before the applause.

Instagram: @weareblackskull

Website: blackskullcreative.com

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The Before the Applause Podcast is available for you to listen to across all your favourite podcast platforms, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. Please do tell your colleagues, networks, friends and family about us, and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms.

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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email [email protected]

Meet Harvey Bowen – the 23-year-old creative force behind the fierce fashions and perfect paint of rising drag sensation Naya Thorn. In this intimate conversation, Harvey takes us from childhood in the Midlands to centre stage in the UK drag scene with refreshing candour and surprising wisdom.

"I always knew I was going to be a star in some capacity," Harvey shares, recounting a supportive family environment that allowed early exploration of identity. This foundation proved crucial when, during university studies disrupted by COVID, Harvey discovered drag and launched headfirst into Liverpool's vibrant scene. The revelation that his first-ever performance involved an untested split leap at Heaven in London perfectly captures the fearless approach that defines his artistry.

Without formal training in makeup, fashion or performance, Harvey has crafted Naya's extraordinary aesthetic through determination and self-teaching. "A lot of what I've done has been self-taught," he explains. "I look back at my pictures and think 'what don't I like about this?' and change it next time." This meticulous attention to detail shows in every aspect of his performances, which balance pristine presentation with genuine connection to audiences.

The conversation doesn't shy from challenging topics, as Harvey discusses navigating personal struggles while building a career. With remarkable maturity, he frames these difficulties as essential parts of his story rather than obstacles. This self-awareness extends to understanding the relationship between himself and Naya – "They're symbiotic, they're the same person. They are also separate people."

Perhaps most compelling is Harvey's perspective on drag's importance during difficult times: "There's so much going on, the world's such a negative place... it's so important that we have drag queens, burlesque, parties, clubs. We dance, we spread joy." This commitment to creating moments of escape and connection underscores everything Harvey does as an artist.

Follow Harvey's journey through social media @NayaThorne and catch a performance to experience the magic for yourself. You'll discover why, at just 23, this extraordinary talent has everyone talking.

Instagram: @nayathorn

Support the show

The Before the Applause Podcast is available for you to listen to across all your favourite podcast platforms, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. Please do tell your colleagues, networks, friends and family about us, and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms.

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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email [email protected]

When Max Westwell stepped away from a successful 12-year career with English National Ballet, many thought he was making a catastrophic mistake. But Max has always been driven by curiosity and evolution, refusing to be confined to a single artistic path.

From his earliest days as an energetic, dyslexic child finding expression through movement, Max's journey has been one of constant adaptation. His breakout role as Romeo in Nureyev's ballet came after recovering from a devastating bone tumour that nearly ended his career. Rather than retreating, he developed a sophisticated understanding of physical training and performance preparation that would serve him through decades of demanding performances.

The BBC's ground-breaking documentary "Agony and Ecstasy" unexpectedly thrust Max into the spotlight, creating opportunities beyond traditional ballet circles. Yet even at the height of his classical career, he felt the pull toward new artistic territories. His courageous leap into musical theatre with Christopher Wheeldon's "An American in Paris" required starting from scratch - learning to sing, developing new movement vocabulary, and confronting the terrifying possibility of failure. This pattern of deliberate reinvention continued through Matthew Bourne's "Swan Lake," Disney's "The Nutcracker and the Four Realms," and eventually to the cultural phenomenon "Bridgerton."

Max's approach to artistic evolution offers valuable lessons for anyone facing career transitions. His methodical identification of transferable skills, relentless pursuit of supplementary training, and willingness to occupy beginner status while building new expertise have enabled him to navigate between seemingly disparate creative worlds. The discipline forged through classical ballet provides the foundation for his continuous exploration of acting, choreography, and directorial work.

This conversation reveals both the external journey of a versatile performer and the internal resilience required to sustain a creative life through multiple reinventions. For anyone contemplating their next artistic chapter or wondering how to transform setbacks into opportunities, Max's story offers both practical guidance and inspirational courage.

Support the show

The Before the Applause Podcast is available for you to listen to across all your favourite podcast platforms, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. Please do tell your colleagues, networks, friends and family about us, and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms.

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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email [email protected]

Creativity blooms in unexpected places. For Pip Doran - better known to fans worldwide as the blue circle-wearing Scouse drag superstar Sister Sister - early inspiration came from a female-led household where art experimentation wasn't just allowed, it was celebrated. From fashioning portraits out of family laundry to channeling the energy of beloved television characters, Pip's journey reveals how childhood freedom to explore laid the foundation for a multifaceted creative career.

"I've never been very careful," Pip confesses midway through our conversation, reflecting on a life marked by bold choices and calculated risks. This philosophy guided them through multiple university attempts, a late entry into drag performance at age 27, and the creation of Sister Sister's unmistakable aesthetic - particularly that signature blue circle makeup that sets them apart in an increasingly crowded drag landscape. The conversation weaves through formative cultural influences (from Dawn French to Gem and the Holograms), revealing how these touchstones continue to inform their artistic expression today.

Perhaps most compelling is Pip's candid reflection on their RuPaul's Drag Race UK experience, offering rare insights into both the production realities and the devastating aftermath of online abuse that followed. Their decision to speak publicly about this experience in The Guardian marked an important moment in the ongoing conversation about reality TV and contestant mental health. Yet despite these challenges, Pip continues to evolve creatively - from massage therapy to visual art exhibitions - embracing a more balanced approach to life and work.

Whether you're a drag enthusiast, an aspiring creative, or simply someone navigating your own path of self-expression, this episode delivers profound insights on vulnerability, authenticity, and the courage to carve your own unique space in the world. Subscribe now and join us for more inspiring conversations with extraordinary creators who reveal what happens before the applause.

Instagram: @officialsistersister

Support the show

The Before the Applause Podcast is available for you to listen to across all your favourite podcast platforms, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. Please do tell your colleagues, networks, friends and family about us, and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms.

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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email [email protected]

Meeting Niccy Hallifax feels like encountering a whirlwind of creative energy. This extraordinary producer and artistic director has shaped some of our most memorable cultural moments – from Olympic ceremonies to city-wide cultural celebrations, from transforming industrial relics into breathtaking art installations to championing voices traditionally excluded from our cultural narratives.

In this captivating conversation, Niccy takes us on her unexpected journey from art student and fashion lecturer to becoming one of the UK's most respected creative leaders. Her story begins with an impromptu opportunity to create massive canvases for the Whitbread Book Awards, which opened doors to a career spent crafting unforgettable experiences. With remarkable candor, she shares the intensity of producing over 800 medal ceremonies for London 2012, the logistical marvel of placing a 415-ton oil rig on a beach for the "Sea Monster" installation that drew half a million visitors, and the unexpected crowds that descended on Hull when she helped launch its City of Culture year.

What shines brightest throughout is Niccy's unwavering commitment to authentic community engagement. "You have to be situated in the community for which you're creating," she insists, detailing how her current work on the Stockton & Darlington Railway's 200th anniversary celebration began not with grand plans but with conversations in care homes, refugee centers, and community spaces. This dedication to genuine representation extends to her passionate advocacy for women in the creative industries, where she notes concerning backward steps since COVID despite the sector contributing approximately £130 billion to the UK economy.

For anyone interested in cultural production, Niccy offers invaluable insights on choosing projects wisely, embracing international opportunities, learning from failures, and prioritising audience experience. Her stories remind us that creativity isn't merely about spectacle – it's about connecting people, amplifying unheard voices, and creating moments that resonate in memory long after the applause fades. Whether you're an aspiring producer, an established creative, or simply curious about how our most meaningful cultural experiences come together, this episode promises to inspire, challenge, and delight.

niccyhallifax.com
sdr200.co.uk

Support the show

The Before the Applause Podcast is available for you to listen to across all your favourite podcast platforms, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. Please do tell your colleagues, networks, friends and family about us, and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms.

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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email [email protected]

What happens when your childhood wish on a chicken wishbone shapes your entire life? For Helen Thom, that wish for ballet lessons at age six sparked a journey from passionate young dancer to transformative educator who has touched hundreds, if not thousands, of lives.

Helen's story unfolds with warmth and authenticity as she shares pivotal moments that shaped her path – from her mother noticing technical issues in her early training to her formative years at Bird College. "It was a real shock to the system," she recalls of professional training at just sixteen. "For about the first term, I was in bed by half past eight. I was absolutely knackered."

After years of performing across pantomimes, summer seasons, and cruise ships, Helen unexpectedly found herself teaching at New College Telford in 2001. What began as a stopgap revealed her true calling. Host David Watson, who was among her earliest students, provides a touching perspective on Helen's impact: "You don't often get to talk about yourself, so I thought this would be a really good opportunity to do that."

The conversation beautifully captures the ripple effects of exceptional teaching. At South Staffs College, where Helen now leads performing arts and music programmes, she fosters cutting-edge collaborations between disciplines – her dance students work with motion capture technology alongside games art students, while music students form the pit band. This innovative approach reflects her belief that today's creative professionals must be multi-skilled and open-minded.

Perhaps most meaningful is Helen's reflection on teaching's profound rewards: "I don't get satisfaction just from students who've gone into performing arts... they have done good things in life and forged other careers." Her genuine pride in helping young people navigate personal challenges alongside artistic growth exemplifies teaching at its most transformative.

Whether you're a performer, educator, or simply appreciate stories of finding unexpected purpose, Helen's journey reminds us that our greatest impact often comes when we put our best foot forward in directions we never anticipated. Join us for this heartwarming conversation about passion, persistence, and the beautiful legacy of nurturing others' talents.

southstaffs.ac.uk

Support the show

The Before the Applause Podcast is available for you to listen to across all your favourite podcast platforms, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. Please do tell your colleagues, networks, friends and family about us, and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms.

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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email [email protected]

Meet Suzie Henderson, a fierce advocate for community-driven creative leadership who's helping rewrite the rules of cultural spaces as Creative Director at Storyhouse in Chester. With warmth and candour, Susie shares her unexpected journey from a youth theatre in Tamworth to becoming a pioneering voice in the creative sector.

What makes Suzie's approach so refreshing is her commitment to collaborative leadership. "I'm not a big fan of a singular artistic vision held by one person," she explains. "Organisations that support communities need a multitude of perspectives." This philosophy has shaped her career from her early days at Contact Theatre Manchester to her current role, where she champions accessibility, diversity, and genuine community engagement.

Throughout our conversation, Suzie deftly navigates the perceived tension between commercial success and social impact. She challenges the notion that these must be opposing forces, arguing instead that "commerciality comes through the creativity." Her work at Storyhouse demonstrates that cultural organisations can maintain financial sustainability while staying true to their values – a lesson many in the sector are still learning.

Perhaps most inspiring is Suzie's commitment to creating pathways for emerging talent. From Storyhouse Young Company's free training programme for those facing barriers to drama school, to paid professional opportunities for young actors, she's building tangible solutions to industry gaps. Her approach recognises that talent alone isn't enough – success requires opportunity, support, and a commitment to bringing new voices into traditionally exclusive spaces.

Whether you're an established creative, an aspiring arts professional, or simply curious about what happens before the applause, Susie's insights offer a masterclass in values-led leadership for the modern cultural landscape. Join us for this thought-provoking conversation that proves meaningful engagement and commercial savvy aren't opposites – they're part of the same compelling story.

storyhouse.com
contactmcr.com

Support the show

The Before the Applause Podcast is available for you to listen to across all your favourite podcast platforms, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. Please do tell your colleagues, networks, friends and family about us, and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms.

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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email [email protected]

Step into the captivating world of Franz Genau, a self-described "German drag king chaos demon" whose white-faced, mustachioed persona has become a striking presence in Liverpool's vibrant drag scene. Behind this compelling character stands Severus Heyn – illustrator, producer, performer, and creative powerhouse whose journey defies conventional narratives.
 
 With refreshing candour, Sev reveals how beginning drag performance later in life after a decade-plus career in illustration has been a tremendous advantage. "You're already self-assured, you already know the things you're doing well," they explain, contrasting their experience with younger performers navigating the scene. This mature approach has allowed Franz to emerge fully-formed, drawing from a deep well of creative experience and personal confidence.
 
 Our conversation explores the fascinating evolution from creating queer illustrations to embodying Franz – originally intended to exist solely in digital spaces before bursting into physical reality. Rather than waiting for opportunities, Sev carved out their own space, creating events like a drag pop quiz that allowed them to perform on their terms. This DIY ethos extends to their involvement in groundbreaking projects like the Queen exhibition at Walker Art Gallery and founding the Merseyside King Collective, initiatives that strengthen Liverpool's alternative drag community.
 
Sevn thoughtfully unpacks misconceptions about drag kings, challenging the assumption they can't be as captivating as queens. "If you're actually starting to engage with the tracking community and thinking what can they offer, it's the exact same diversity, the same unpredictableness that track queens bring to the stage." This philosophy informs their work with the Pink Pony Club, a competition showcasing diverse northern drag talent where performers aren't eliminated and everyone gets paid – revolutionary concepts in competitive drag.
 
The cultural exchange between German and British drag scenes provides another rich dimension to our discussion, with Sev celebrating the UK's eccentricity while acknowledging Germany's institutional support for the arts. Their dream? Creating exchange programmes between the scenes, allowing cross-pollination of ideas and approaches.
 
Subscribe now to hear this thoughtful, funny, and enlightening conversation about creating authentic art, building community, and finding joy in creativity despite increasing economic pressures. Whether you're a drag enthusiast or simply curious about the creative process, Franz Ganau's journey will inspire you to carve out your own space in the world.

Instagram: @queerartisan

Support the show

The Before the Applause Podcast is available for you to listen to across all your favourite podcast platforms, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. Please do tell your colleagues, networks, friends and family about us, and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms.

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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email [email protected]

Maya Gabrielle, better known to millions of young readers as bestselling children's author M.G Leonard, takes us on an exhilarating journey through her remarkably unconventional career. From managing The Divine Comedy band in the 90s to pioneering digital content at Shakespeare's Globe, Royal Opera House, and National Theatre, Maya reveals how being a self-described "renegade" helped her navigate male-dominated industries with creativity and audacity.

Her storytelling captivates as she recalls the moment she committed to becoming a children's author while working full-time as a single mother. With raw honesty, Maya shares the emotional roller coaster of rejections before her debut novel Beetle Boy became an international sensation. Now approaching the milestone of one million books sold in the UK alone, she offers a fascinating glimpse into the modern author's life - creating promotional videos, managing social media, and connecting with young readers through energetic school visits.

The conversation delves into compelling territory as Maya discusses AI's impact on publishing, the evolving expectations placed on authors, and her passionate call for greater class diversity in arts organisations. With characteristic boldness, she articulates how her background gave her unique advantages: "I'm not afraid of learning something new... I love learning stuff, and the greatest thing about writing books for children is I have to do so much research for every subject."

Whether you're an aspiring creative, a digital innovator, or simply curious about the person behind beloved children's books, Maya's story reminds us of the power in breaking rules, following passion, and embracing what she calls our "inner New Yorker" - that spirit that says "I can do that" regardless of obstacles. Listen now and discover what happens before the applause.

www.mgleonard.com

Support the show

The Before the Applause Podcast is available for you to listen to across all your favourite podcast platforms, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. Please do tell your colleagues, networks, friends and family about us, and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms.

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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email [email protected]

Magnus Hastings carries the rare distinction of being a photographer whose work you've likely seen even if you don't recognise his name. From capturing President Bill Clinton and pop icons like Demi Lovato to becoming the definitive visual chronicler of drag culture, Magnus has developed a signature style that celebrates authenticity and artistry in equal measure.

What makes Magnus's journey particularly compelling is its organic, self-taught nature. Growing up watching his father develop photographs in a darkroom, he describes it as "a magical thing watching these images appear through the chemicals." This childhood fascination evolved into a professional passion only after a frustrated acting career where his 6'4" frame proved more hindrance than help. Photography offered creative control that acting couldn't, and Magnus seized it with both hands.

His breakthrough came through his revolutionary approach to photographing drag artists. Where others had portrayed "some wistful, sad man in a wig doing their makeup in a mirror," Magnus focused on "lighting the art form rather than the tragedy of the homosexual." This fundamental shift in perspective helped elevate drag photography from marginalised curiosity to celebrated art form, culminating in his landmark book "Why Drag?" and exhibitions that draw thousands of visitors.

Despite his remarkable success, Magnus speaks candidly about the continuous battle with imposter syndrome and the challenges of maintaining artistic integrity in an era of Instagram filters and AI manipulation. His working method—intuitive, energetic, and deeply collaborative—reveals someone who prioritizes emotional truth over technical perfection. As he puts it, "When I shoot something, it's intensely personal. Every single picture feels personal."

For those looking to follow in his footsteps, Magnus offers refreshingly straightforward advice: "Don't worry about the equipment... It's about ideas, it's about composition, and it's about trying everything." In a world increasingly obsessed with technical specifications and digital manipulation, his commitment to vision, authenticity, and human connection reminds us what truly makes a photograph worth a thousand words.

www.magnushastings.com
Instagram: @magnushastings

Support the show

The Before the Applause Podcast is available for you to listen to across all your favourite podcast platforms, and don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss a thing. Please do tell your colleagues, networks, friends and family about us, and stay connected with us across all the usual social media platforms.

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If you’ve got any burning questions, want to share your own insights, recommend a guest or be one yourself, then we’d love to hear from you. You can direct message on any of our social accounts or email [email protected]