On this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, Dave speaks with entrepreneur and author Betsy Pepine about her book Breaking Boxes: Dismantling the Metaphorical Boxes That Bind Us — and what those “boxes” really mean for business owners.

They move beyond the metaphor and into the boardroom. Dave and Betsy examine how invisible constraints — family expectations, industry norms, identity labels, fear of judgment — quietly shape leadership decisions, company culture, and growth trajectories. More importantly, they explore what it takes to recognize and dismantle those constraints before they limit enterprise value.

Betsy shares candid stories from building and scaling her real estate businesses, including a pivotal employee departure that forced a hard look at culture and alignment, and her unconventional decision to create salaried agent roles in an industry built on commission. The conversation tackles how fear masquerades as strategy, how misalignment shows up physically and relationally for leaders, and how outdated assumptions can cap performance long before the numbers reflect it.

You’ll hear practical insights for business owners and advisors alike:

How to identify the “boxes” shaping your decisions

Why growth often stalls at identity, not capability

The role of outside counsel, peer groups, and masterminds in exposing blind spots

How authentic alignment strengthens culture - and ultimately business results

If you’re a business owner, executive, or advisor who senses that something is holding your organization back  but can’t quite name it, this conversation will help you connect the dots between mindset, leadership behavior, and measurable outcomes.

About Our Guest:

Betsy Pepine is a best-selling author, speaker and serial entrepreneur in real estate. Her brokerage, Pepine Realty, has been named as an Inc. 5000 Fastest Growing Private Company in the USA multiple times and has earned spots on the Top 50 Florida Companies to Watch and Florida Trend Best Companies to Work For lists. Additionally, the Wall Street Journal has consistently recognized Betsy’s real estate team as one of the top-producing real estate companies in the United States. Betsy also owns a title company, real estate school and property management brokerage. Betsy is endorsed by her mentor, real estate mogul, and Shark Tank shark Barbara Corcoran, as well as leading media personality, Dave Ramsey. Passionate about helping at-risk families with children, Betsy founded Pepine Gives, a 501(c)3 non-profit foundation that helps families facing housing insecurity. Betsy earned an economics degree from Duke University and an MBA from The Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania.

About the Host:

Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries. 

Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers. 

He’s on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people’s contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company’s most valuable asset.”

Dave’s book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions.

He’s also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.

🔸 Grab Dave’s Books: The New ROI: Return on Individuals  | The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers  |  A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know

🔸 Connect with Dave on LinkedIn 

🔸 Connect with Dave on FaceBook

🔸 Follow Dave on Twitter

🔸 Check out www.NEWROI.com for more.

💡  Want to share your insights with the business community? Message Dave to learn how you can be a guest on Behind The Numbers. https://linktr.ee/BehindTheNumbers

🔹 Check out more of Behind The Numbers on YouTube

BEHIND THE NUMBERS WITH DAVE BOOKBINDER IS AN AWARD-WINNING PODCAST THAT IS ENJOYED IN MORE THAN 100 COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR MAKING BEHIND THE NUMBERS AMONG THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS GLOBALLY!

How do you build a mission-driven brand that survives beyond a single personality - and still create real enterprise value?

On this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, I speak with Bob Bush, founder and CEO of Mutombo Coffee, about building a purpose-driven specialty coffee company rooted in relationships, disciplined execution, and long-term thinking.

Bob traces the origin of Mutombo Coffee from his friendship with NBA legend Dikembe Mutombo to the development of a “commerce over charity” model designed to create sustainable economic opportunity - particularly for women coffee farmers. Drawing on his background in finance and supply chain management, Bob explains how operational discipline and mission alignment must coexist if a social enterprise is going to scale.

We discuss:

Launching a consumer brand during COVID and the realities of supply chain disruption

Managing key-person risk following Dikembe Mutombo’s passing

The operational complexity of international sourcing and distribution

Leadership lessons for founders building mission-centered businesses

Aligning profit with purpose without compromising either

Bob also shares the evolution of the product strategy - from single-serve sachets and K-Cups to stroopwafels and espresso martini offerings - along with partnerships that have supported growth, including the Houston Rockets and Temple University.

This conversation offers practical insight for business owners and management teams navigating growth, brand identity, and enterprise resilience. It’s a case study in building sustainable systems, listening to customers, and proving that purpose and profitability are not mutually exclusive - but must be intentionally engineered.

If you’re interested in entrepreneurship, management, impact investing, or the mechanics behind scaling a mission-driven brand, this episode delivers both strategic perspective and operational lessons.

** Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder listeners can get 20% off of their order by using the discount code BTN20 here: insert web address https://www.mutombocoffee.com/collections/all

About Our Guest

Bob Bush is a senior investment executive with experience across industries, geographies (USA, Europe, China, Middle East, and Africa), as well as asset classes (venture capital, private equity, Islamic Finance). He has engaged in various financial and operating special projects for sovereign-related entities, family businesses, family offices, investment companies, corporations, and startups.

Bob provides live television commentary and keynotes at global conferences on innovation, social impact, sustainability, global investing, and international trade. His unique experiences, love for learning and teaching, as well as an established network of relationships, fuel his interests in innovative business models, public-private partnerships, and entrepreneurship.

Bob’s international experiences with multinational corporations and government advisory as well as his love for learning and teaching have given him a unique perspective on solving global challenges.

About the Host:

Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries. 

Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers. 

He’s on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people’s contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company’s most valuable asset.”

Dave’s book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions.

He’s also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.

🔸 Grab Dave’s Books: The New ROI: Return on Individuals  | The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers  |  A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know

🔸 Connect with Dave on LinkedIn 

🔸 Connect with Dave on FaceBook

🔸 Follow Dave on Twitter

🔸 Check out www.NEWROI.com for more.

💡  Want to share your insights with the business community? Message Dave to learn how you can be a guest on Behind The Numbers. https://linktr.ee/BehindTheNumbers

🔹 Check out more of Behind The Numbers on YouTube

BEHIND THE NUMBERS WITH DAVE BOOKBINDER IS AN AWARD-WINNING PODCAST THAT IS ENJOYED IN MORE THAN 100 COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR MAKING BEHIND THE NUMBERS AMONG THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS GLOBALLY!

How does storytelling build authority - and where’s the line between authenticity and vulnerability?

On this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, Dave Bookbinder is joined by Autumn Karen - filmmaker, journalist, ghostwriter, educator, and author of The Surrogate Author - for a deep dive into the power of narrative and the responsibility that comes with it.

Autumn explains why “words are power,” how storytelling shapes credibility, and why leaders often misunderstand what it really means to be authentic. The conversation explores how personal and professional narratives are constructed, curated, and sometimes compromised in the pursuit of visibility and influence.

Dave and Autumn unpack the craft and ethics of ghostwriting, including empathy-driven collaboration, capturing a client’s voice through a method-acting approach, editorial decision-making, contracts, and what business owners should know before hiring a ghostwriter or committing to a book project.

They also discuss the current and future role of AI in writing and creative work, mentorship and teaching lessons from the classroom, and why writing a book can bring clarity, confidence, and authority to leaders - when done the right way.

Autumn shares insights from her deeply personal animated short Infinity Care, offering a candid look at balancing creative ambition with emotional labor, and explains what readers can expect from The Surrogate Author - a practical, textbook-style guide covering craft, business practices, and ethics for ghostwriters in the age of AI.

Learn more about Autumn at autumnkaren.com, and connect with her on LinkedIn, Instagram, and TikTok (@autumnkaren).

Subscribe to Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with your network and leave a review - it helps more business owners and advisors discover the show.

About Our Guest:

Autumn Karen is a filmmaker, journalist, ghostwriter, and educator who uses writing to elevate traditionally unheard stories. She's English faculty and QEP Co-Director at High Point University and founder of Woven Lines Publishing and Medusa’s Gaze Films. Her comprehensive guide to ghostwriting, The Surrogate Author: The Craft, Business, and Ethics of Ghostwriting in the Age of AI, was published by Kendall Hunt in 2025. Autumn's award winning work as a journalist, author, and screenwriter centers on themes such as systematic oppression, grief, and complex societal relationships.

About the Host:

Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries. 

Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers. 

He’s on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people’s contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company’s most valuable asset.”

Dave’s book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions.

He’s also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.

🔸 Grab Dave’s Books: The New ROI: Return on Individuals  | The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers  |  A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know

🔸 Connect with Dave on LinkedIn 

🔸 Connect with Dave on FaceBook

🔸 Follow Dave on Twitter

🔸 Check out www.NEWROI.com for more.

💡  Want to share your insights with the business community? Message Dave to learn how you can be a guest on Behind The Numbers. https://linktr.ee/BehindTheNumbers

🔹 Check out more of Behind The Numbers on YouTube

BEHIND THE NUMBERS WITH DAVE BOOKBINDER IS AN AWARD-WINNING PODCAST THAT IS ENJOYED IN MORE THAN 100 COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR MAKING BEHIND THE NUMBERS AMONG THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS GLOBALLY!

Referrals are often talked about as a “nice to have.” In this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, they’re treated for what they really are - a measurable, scalable driver of profitable growth.

Dave Bookbinder speaks with Brandon Barnum, widely known as the “King of Referrals,” about how referral-driven businesses outperform those that rely on traditional selling. Brandon shares his journey from single dad to referral-based entrepreneur and CEO of HOA.com, and breaks down the numbers behind referrals, including why B2B referrals convert at higher rates, stay longer, and deliver greater lifetime value.

The conversation goes beyond theory and into execution. Brandon explains the mindset shift from selling to serving, his three-step referral framework (set the stage, listen for referral triggers, ASK to GET), and how to move referrals from something informal to a repeatable system. They discuss how to build and train referral partnerships, co-marketing strategies that actually work, and how to stand out when a prospect is given multiple referrals.

Brandon also covers overlooked referral sources, the KPIs that matter when tracking referral performance, and how to scale referrals without losing the personal connection that makes them effective in the first place.

Listeners will walk away with practical, actionable ideas - how to audit your existing relationships, why committing to one referral partner meeting per week can change your pipeline, how to systematize referrals across your team, and how to create a clear referral partner blueprint.

About Our Guest:

Brandon Barnum, known as the "King of Referrals," is an award-winning entrepreneur, speaker, and business strategist. He is the CEO of HOA.com and the author of four #1 best selling books in the Raving Referrals book series. A referral and sales expert, Brandon 10X’d his income from $20K to $200K in just 18 months. He has since generated over $500 million in referral-based transactions and built networks with over 5 million members in 195 countries and has helped over 250,000 real estate agents grow their businesses. Previously, he served as CEO of Codebreaker Technologies, developing the world’s first personality-based AI for sales. Featured in "The Wall Street Journal", "Newsweek", and "Cracking the Millionaire Code", Brandon helps professionals expand their income, influence, and impact through proven referral and sales strategies.

About the Host:

Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries. 

Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers. 

He’s on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people’s contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company’s most valuable asset.”

Dave’s book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions.

He’s also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.

🔸 Grab Dave’s Books: The New ROI: Return on Individuals  | The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers  |  A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know

🔸 Connect with Dave on LinkedIn 

🔸 Connect with Dave on FaceBook

🔸 Follow Dave on Twitter

🔸 Check out www.NEWROI.com for more.

💡  Want to share your insights with the business community? Message Dave to learn how you can be a guest on Behind The Numbers. https://linktr.ee/BehindTheNumbers

🔹 Check out more of Behind The Numbers on YouTube

BEHIND THE NUMBERS WITH DAVE BOOKBINDER IS AN AWARD-WINNING PODCAST THAT IS ENJOYED IN MORE THAN 100 COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR MAKING BEHIND THE NUMBERS AMONG THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS GLOBALLY!

How do companies turn data into real enterprise value - not just dashboards, pilots, and AI theater?

In this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, Dave speaks with Ritavan, author of the award-winning book Data Impact and creator of the SLASOG framework, about why so many data and AI initiatives fail - and what leaders should do differently if they actually want results.

Rather than chasing buzzwords or “digital transformation” for its own sake, Ritavan challenges leadership teams to treat data as a strategic asset for value creation. He explains how different economic paradigms - from hunter-gatherers to industrial firms to digital natives - shape how organizations extract value, and why legacy companies often underestimate their proprietary advantages.

The conversation explores:

Why most data and AI programs collapse under groupthink and misaligned incentives

How companies like Walmart leveraged physical assets, customer demand, and scale to build defensible data advantages

The dangers of chasing “quick wins” instead of compounding value

Why KPIs must be context-specific to strategy, not borrowed from competitors

Ritavan also breaks down his six-step SLASOG framework - Save, Leverage, Align, Simplify, Optimize, Grow - and shares practical guidance for leadership teams on aligning talent, culture, and first-principles thinking around long-term value creation.

If your data strategy feels like “spray and pray,” this episode will help you identify where to start, how to uncover asymmetric advantages, and how to think about data the way investors and buyers do.

About Our Guest:

Ritavan is an entrepreneurial technology leader and over the past decade he has built and scaled data-driven solutions that have impacted billions of euros. He has authored peer-reviewed papers, given invited keynotes & workshops at global conferences, and holds an international patent. Ritavan is known for his first principles approach to data-driven value creation across industries. https://ritavan.com/ https://www.amazon.com/Data-Impact-businesses-LEVERAGE-SIMPLIFY/dp/178133921X/

About the Host:

Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries. 

Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers. 

He’s on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people’s contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company’s most valuable asset.”

Dave’s book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions.

He’s also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.

🔸 Grab Dave’s Books: The New ROI: Return on Individuals  | The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers  |  A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know

🔸 Connect with Dave on LinkedIn 

🔸 Connect with Dave on FaceBook

🔸 Follow Dave on Twitter

🔸 Check out www.NEWROI.com for more.

💡  Want to share your insights with the business community? Message Dave to learn how you can be a guest on Behind The Numbers. https://linktr.ee/BehindTheNumbers

🔹 Check out more of Behind The Numbers on YouTube

BEHIND THE NUMBERS WITH DAVE BOOKBINDER IS AN AWARD-WINNING PODCAST THAT IS ENJOYED IN MORE THAN 100 COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR MAKING BEHIND THE NUMBERS AMONG THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS GLOBALLY!

What happens when personal challenge meets disciplined innovation?

In this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, Dave speaks with Doug Katz, founder and inventor of Nulu, an adaptive kitchen knife designed for people with joint pain, limited mobility, or strength challenges. Doug shares a journey that spans West Point, military service, hobby knife-making, and the pivotal moment when his own physical limitations sparked a completely different way of thinking about kitchen tools.

Doug walks through the invention and design process behind Nulu, including the inspiration drawn from the Ulu-style circular blade and the broader philosophy of task-based design — redefining disability by focusing on what people can do, not what they can’t. He explains why Nulu made a deliberate 360-degree strategic pivot back into the adaptive market and what that decision revealed about product-market fit.

The conversation dives into the realities of building a physical product business: prototyping, protecting IP, offshore manufacturing, scaling challenges, fulfillment hurdles, and the importance of getting products into users’ hands through lending libraries and live demonstrations. Doug also discusses bootstrapping, assembling what he calls the “commercial Avengers,” navigating reimbursement pathways, and identifying the KPIs that actually matter at this stage of growth.

Doug closes by sharing lessons learned from mistakes, advice for founders building mission-driven products, what’s next on Nulu’s product roadmap, and where listeners can connect with him and learn more about Nulu.

Subscribe to Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with your network and leave a review—it helps more business owners and advisors discover the show!

About Our Guest:

Douglas Katz is a West Point graduate, disabled Army veteran, and the inventor of NULU, an adaptive kitchen knife that reimagines food prep for people with joint, strength, or mobility challenges. Doug brings decades of cross-industry experience—from military service to steel casting, telecom, and lending—and now channels it into designing tools that promote independence, dignity, and real-world usability.

Doug’s journey into adaptive innovation began with his own upper extremity limitations and his experience caring for his father. Frustrated by how poorly traditional tools served real people with real challenges, he designed NULU—a kitchen knife based on circular cutting geometry that delivers control without strain. Today, NULU is in full production and shipping to customers across the country, helping users cook safely, confidently, and with less pain.

Building on that success, Doug is developing a hyperconfigurable arm sling designed for long-wear comfort and daily function—especially for users recovering from injury or managing chronic conditions. He’s also preparing to launch a new product in the gift space that empowers people to show up for each other with deeper care and presence.

Doug’s design philosophy is simple but rare: function over flash, dignity over pity, and tools that actually work. Whether you’re aging, adapting, or caregiving, his work centers on building solutions that meet you where you are—and make life better from there.  https://linktr.ee/dougkatz

About the Host:

Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries. 

Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers. 

He’s on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people’s contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company’s most valuable asset.”

Dave’s book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions.

He’s also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.

🔸 Grab Dave’s Books: The New ROI: Return on Individuals  | The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers  |  A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know

🔸 Connect with Dave on LinkedIn 

🔸 Connect with Dave on FaceBook

🔸 Follow Dave on Twitter

🔸 Check out www.NEWROI.com for more.

💡  Want to share your insights with the business community? Message Dave to learn how you can be a guest on Behind The Numbers. https://linktr.ee/BehindTheNumbers

🔹 Check out more of Behind The Numbers on YouTube

BEHIND THE NUMBERS WITH DAVE BOOKBINDER IS AN AWARD-WINNING PODCAST THAT IS ENJOYED IN MORE THAN 100 COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR MAKING BEHIND THE NUMBERS AMONG THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS GLOBALLY!

Subscribe to Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with your network and leave a review—it helps more business owners and advisors discover the show!

Equity crowdfunding and angel investing have changed how capital is raised - but many founders and investors still misunderstand valuation, risk, and what it really takes to build long-term wealth.

In this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, Dave Bookbinder is joined by Karen Rands, President of Cougar Capital Holdings, host of The Compassionate Capitalist Show, and author of two books on angel and crowdfunding investing.

Karen shares her journey from corporate leadership at IBM to building and leading a nationally recognized angel investor group, and why she’s dedicated her career to democratizing access to private investing. She explains how the JOBS Act opened the door to equity crowdfunding and why that shift matters for entrepreneurs, investors, and wealth creation beyond public markets.

Dave and Karen unpack the differences between traditional venture capital and what Karen calls “compassionate capitalism,” along with the valuation mistakes founders commonly make when raising capital. They explore underutilized valuation metrics, realistic financial planning, and how misaligned expectations can derail otherwise promising capital raises.

The conversation also breaks down the four primary types of equity crowdfunding - Reg CF, Reg D, Reg A+, and state exemptions - with practical guidance for both founders seeking capital and everyday investors looking to build diversified private-investment portfolios. Karen shares disciplined portfolio-building strategies and actionable first steps for newcomers interested in angel or crowdfund investing.

This episode is a must-listen for business owners, founders, managers, and advisors who want a clearer understanding of valuation, capital formation, and smarter ways to participate in private markets.

About Our Guest:

Karen Rands is a leading voice in democratization of capital from private investors funding innovation and small business expansion — empowering individuals to create wealth by investing in entrepreneurs who are changing the world. She is leading the way with The Compassionate Capitalist Movement. Karen is the author of the best-seller Inside Secrets to Angel Investing: Step-by-Step Strategies to Leverage Private Equity Investment for Passive Wealth Creation.

Her latest release, 2nd in the series, debuted as a Top Release on Amazon: Inside Secrets to Crowdfund Investing. Follow Jane’s Journey: See How a New Generation Builds Wealth with Purpose, Passion and Profit. She hosts a top 100 Business Podcast on Apple, The Compassionate Capitalist™ Show, where she interviews founders, investors, and thought leaders on best practices for wealth creation as a successful entrepreneur or investor in successful small businesses.

Karen has spent over two decades bridging the gap between investors and innovators from her corporate days at IBM to her time spent managing a top ranked angel investor group, and now as a speaker, strategist, and educator.

Click to go to Karen's LinkTree - http://bit.ly/linkCCS for links to social, free gifts, books, course, podcast, socials and to schedule a chat directly

About the Host:

Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries. 

Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers. 

He’s on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people’s contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company’s most valuable asset.”

Dave’s book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions.

He’s also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.

🔸 Grab Dave’s Books: The New ROI: Return on Individuals  | The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers  |  A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know

🔸 Connect with Dave on LinkedIn 

🔸 Connect with Dave on FaceBook

🔸 Follow Dave on Twitter

🔸 Check out www.NEWROI.com for more.

💡  Want to share your insights with the business community? Message Dave to learn how you can be a guest on Behind The Numbers. https://linktr.ee/BehindTheNumbers

🔹 Check out more of Behind The Numbers on YouTube

BEHIND THE NUMBERS WITH DAVE BOOKBINDER IS AN AWARD-WINNING PODCAST THAT IS ENJOYED IN MORE THAN 100 COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR MAKING BEHIND THE NUMBERS AMONG THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS GLOBALLY!

Subscribe to Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with your network and leave a review - it helps more business owners and advisors discover the show!

In this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, I’m joined by Kristof Gleich, President and Chief Investment Officer at Harbor Capital Advisors, for a deep dive into the human capital factor and its impact on business value and investment performance.

Kristof explains how Harbor’s partnership with Irrational Capital led to the development of the HAPI ETFs and walks through the seven subfactors that make up the human capital score: organizational effectiveness, innovation, direct management, alignment, engagement, emotional connection, and extrinsic rewards.

We get into the data behind the factor, including the use of large-scale employee sentiment surveys and proprietary analytics, the index construction process that identifies the top 150 companies, and the annual reconstitution methodology. Kristof also shares performance insights – from Morningstar recognition to how HAPI has compared with the S&P 500.

We also talk about why this factor has the potential to generate real alpha and how investors, private equity firms, and valuation professionals are beginning to incorporate human capital metrics into underwriting and deal analysis.

If you’re interested in how people truly drive enterprise value, how human capital data can shape portfolios, and what this means for investors, advisors, and dealmakers, this episode offers practical, data-driven insights you can use.

About Our Guest:

Kristof Gleich is the president and CIO of Harbor Capital Advisors, Inc. Kristof oversees all Investment, Distribution & Marketing and Executive Office functions at Harbor. He provides insight while helping lead Harbor’s strategic growth plan. Prior to joining Harbor, Kristof was a managing director and global head of manager selection at JP Morgan Chase & Co. He received a B.S. in Physics from University of Bristol. Kristof is a CFA® charterholder and is FINRA Series 7 and 63 licensed.

About the Host:

Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries. 

Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers. 

He’s on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people’s contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company’s most valuable asset.”

Dave’s book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions.

He’s also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.

🔸 Grab Dave’s Books: The New ROI: Return on Individuals  | The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers  |  A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know

🔸 Connect with Dave on LinkedIn 

🔸 Connect with Dave on FaceBook

🔸 Follow Dave on Twitter

🔸 Check out www.NEWROI.com for more.

💡  Want to share your insights with the business community? Message Dave to learn how you can be a guest on Behind The Numbers. https://linktr.ee/BehindTheNumbers

🔹 Check out more of Behind The Numbers on YouTube

BEHIND THE NUMBERS WITH DAVE BOOKBINDER IS AN AWARD-WINNING PODCAST THAT IS ENJOYED IN MORE THAN 100 COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR MAKING BEHIND THE NUMBERS AMONG THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS GLOBALLY!

What truly drives enterprise value - and what quietly destroys it? In this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, Dave speaks with Anthony Franco, managing partner at First Strategy, serial entrepreneur, AI strategist, and co-author of AI First Principles and the WISER Method.

Anthony breaks down the core factors that influence valuation long before an owner thinks about selling. They discuss the impact of profitable revenue, clean financials, customer concentration, operational discipline, and how reducing reliance on the founder increases both value and buyer confidence. Anthony also explains why toxic employees, the “genius jackass,” and organizational apathy can erode enterprise value in ways owners often overlook.

The conversation moves into practical AI adoption for mid-market companies. Anthony outlines the AI First Principles framework and the WISER Method, including specific tools and realistic first steps leaders can take to improve productivity, decision-making, and operational speed without overwhelming their teams. His guidance is grounded: AI is a force multiplier, not a job killer.

They wrap with insights from Anthony’s Shark Tank experience, his How To Founder podcast, and the steps every business owner can take now to protect, strengthen, and increase enterprise value.

Subscribe to Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with your network and leave a review—it helps more business owners and advisors discover the show!

About Our Guest:

Anthony Franco—serial entrepreneur, AI strategist, and the co-author of AI First Principles and the WISER Method. Anthony successfully exited six of his own businesses, and spent over two decades guiding business leaders on how to grow smarter, automate strategically, and prepare for valuable exits. As the host of his own podcast, How to Founder, Anthony is passionate about sharing practical, no-nonsense strategies that entrepreneurs and business owners can immediately put into action.

About the Host:

Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries. 

Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers. 

He’s on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people’s contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company’s most valuable asset.”

Dave’s book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions.

He’s also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.

🔸 Grab Dave’s Books: The New ROI: Return on Individuals  | The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers  |  A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know

🔸 Connect with Dave on LinkedIn 

🔸 Connect with Dave on FaceBook

🔸 Follow Dave on Twitter

🔸 Check out www.NEWROI.com for more.

💡  Want to share your insights with the business community? Message Dave to learn how you can be a guest on Behind The Numbers. https://linktr.ee/BehindTheNumbers

🔹 Check out more of Behind The Numbers on YouTube

BEHIND THE NUMBERS WITH DAVE BOOKBINDER IS AN AWARD-WINNING PODCAST THAT IS ENJOYED IN MORE THAN 100 COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR MAKING BEHIND THE NUMBERS AMONG THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS GLOBALLY!

If you’ve ever wondered whether an ESOP could be the right succession or liquidity strategy for your business, this episode breaks it down in practical, owner-friendly terms. ESOPs continue to gain traction among business owners, advisors, and management teams looking for a tax-advantaged way to transition ownership while preserving company culture and leadership continuity. In this conversation, we take a clear-eyed look at how ESOPs actually work, who they’re right for, and the real impact they can have on company performance.

In this episode of Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder, I’m joined by Kelly Finnell, president of Executive Financial Services and author of The ESOP Coach. Kelly has spent decades helping business owners evaluate ESOPs as part of their succession planning, and he brings both technical knowledge and real-world experience to the table.

We discuss:

The biggest myths and misconceptions business owners have about ESOPs

How ESOPs compare to private equity, competitor sales, and management buyouts

The traits that make a company a strong candidate for an ESOP – and the red flags

How ESOP valuation works and how trustees influence deal dynamics

What business owners should know about deal structure

The cultural impact of employee ownership and why engagement tends to improve

How leadership should communicate an ESOP to build an ownership mindset

The key tax advantages that set ESOPs apart from other succession options

Where ESOP efforts tend to go off track and what owners should watch for

Whether you’re a business owner planning ahead, a manager interested in ownership culture, or an advisor guiding clients through succession decisions, this episode provides a grounded, actionable look at ESOPs from someone who has been in the trenches.

Subscribe to Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with your network and leave a review—it helps more business owners and advisors discover the show!

About Our Guest:

Kelly O. Finnell, J.D., CLU, AIF® is one of the nation’s premier ESOP consultants, having spent more than 40 years helping business owners design and execute ESOPs. Kelly is one of the most sought-after speakers about ESOPs, with experience presenting at more than 300 conferences and meetings throughout the U.S. and abroad in London and Sydney.

About the Host:

Dave Bookbinder is known as an expert in business valuation and he is the person that business owners and entrepreneurs reach out to when they need to know what their most important assets are worth. Known as a collaborative adviser, Dave has served thousands of client companies of all sizes and industries. 

Dave is the author of two #1 best-selling books about the impact of human capital (PEOPLE!) on the valuation of a business enterprise called The NEW ROI: Return On Individuals & The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers. 

He’s on a mission to change the conversation about how the accounting world recognizes the value of people’s contributions to a business enterprise, and to quantify what every CEO on the planet claims: “Our people are this company’s most valuable asset.”

Dave’s book, A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know, was recognized as a top new release in Business and Valuation and is designed to provide practical insights and tools to help understand what really drives business value, how to prepare for an exit, and just make better decisions.

He’s also the host of the highly rated Behind The Numbers With Dave Bookbinder business podcast which is enjoyed in more than 100 countries.

🔸 Grab Dave’s Books: The New ROI: Return on Individuals  | The NEW ROI: Going Behind The Numbers  |  A Valuation Toolbox for Business Owners and Their Advisors: Things Every Business Owner Should Know

🔸 Connect with Dave on LinkedIn 

🔸 Connect with Dave on FaceBook

🔸 Follow Dave on Twitter

🔸 Check out www.NEWROI.com for more.

💡  Want to share your insights with the business community? Message Dave to learn how you can be a guest on Behind The Numbers. https://linktr.ee/BehindTheNumbers

🔹 Check out more of Behind The Numbers on YouTube

BEHIND THE NUMBERS WITH DAVE BOOKBINDER IS AN AWARD-WINNING PODCAST THAT IS ENJOYED IN MORE THAN 100 COUNTRIES. THANK YOU FOR MAKING BEHIND THE NUMBERS AMONG THE MOST POPULAR PROGRAMS GLOBALLY!