(0:00) Intro

(1:06) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(1:53) Start of interview.

(2:37) Tyler's "origin story." 

(4:50) His beginnings at Theranos.

(7:07) On the culture of the Theranos, "the company was extremely secretive and paranoid."

(9:41) On the lack of equity compensation for Theranos employees.

(10:32) On Theranos' board of directors.

(16:50) Some of the prominent investors in Theranos, and lack of due diligence.

(19:24) On Elizabeth Holmes and Sunny Balwani fraud convictions, FOMO, and value of credibility from early backers (e.g. Channing Robertson, Don Lucas, George Shultz, etc).

(23:57) How Tyler became a whisteblower at Theranos. His contact with John Carreyrou, at the time a WSJ reporter.

(26:57) On his legal challenges (and high fees) as a whistleblower. George Shultz (his grandfather) would tell him: "I'm 90 years old. I ended the Cold War. I fought in a world war. I've seen a lot of things in my life. I've seldom been wrong. And I know what I'm looking at. And I know I'm right about this."

(30:24) On the SEC's whisteblower program and his personal experience with this process. *Reference to E130 with Mary Inman (his Whistleblower attorney).

(34:58) On the NDA and confidentiality agreements, "fraud is not a trade secret."

(37:56) Why Elizabeth Holmes wanted Theranos to remain private and never go public.

(39:04) Stanford's problematic connection to frauds. See: "What's the Matter with Stanford?"

(42:14) The role of executive and board compensation in startups.

(46:20) Book that he recommends reading: Salt in My Soul by Mallory Smith (2019).

(48:00)  His mentors: George Shultz (his grandfather) and J. Leighton Read.

(50:01)  Quotes that he thinks of often or lives his life by: "You Get What You Screen For"

(51:17) An unusual habit or absurd thing that he loves.

(52:53) The living person that he most admires: Dr Anthony Fauci.

"I often think back to a famous quote about character, which is, character is what you do when nobody's watching. And I actually think that the opposite is true. I think character is what you do when everyone's watching. And I experienced that."

(53:57)  His current endeavors.

Tyler Shultz is a former Theranos employee who became a key whistleblower, exposing the company's fraudulent practices. As the grandson of former Secretary of State George Shultz, who was on Theranos' board, Tyler's decision to speak out carried significant personal and professional risks. 

You can find out more about Tyler at his website: https://www.tyler-shultz.com/

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro.

(1:39) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(2:25) Start of interview. Reference to E21 with Ilya Strebulaev from October 2020.

(4:01) On why he wrote his book The Venture Mindset: for decision makers in large organizations.

(5:37) About the first principle: Home Runs Matter, Strikeouts Don’t. Make small bets vs fear of failure.

(7:23) Two types of innovation: incremental (step by step) vs. disruptive innovation.

(13:32) The unique role that independent directors can play in innovation.

(18:20) On corporate unicorns and intrapreneurs.

(20:11) On errors of omission and building anti-portfolios.

(24:01) Promoting the venture mindset for large companies to be more innovative and become more like Silicon Valley.

(28:29) Red flags in decision-making ("why should I not invest?"), and the example of Theranos. Examples from Shark Tank.

(34:00) On Yuri Milner's investment in Facebook (2009) and investing without taking a board seat (informal controls and indirect influence).

(38:30) Formal vs informal control rights in corporate governance.

(44:13) Stay private vs go public debate. On "quasi-public" companies.

(49:11) On the pressures to go public for VCs and employees, and the evolution of secondary markets.

(52:20)  On the principle (#5) to Bet on the Jockey (put people above process).

(53:22) On the principle (#7) to Double Down or Quit (allow flexibility, and phenomenon of escalation of commitment).

Ilya Strebulaev is a Professor at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and is an expert in corporate finance, venture capital and private equity, corporate innovation, innovation ecosystems, and financial decision-making. His recent work has examined the valuation of VC-backed companies, decision making by venture capital and private equity investors, corporate venture capital, and impact of venture capital. 

You can follow Ilya on social media at:

Twitter: @IlyaStrebulaev

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ilyavcandpe/

Venture Mindset Website: https://thevcmindset.com/

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro.

(1:19) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(2:05) Start of interview.

(2:58) Greg's "origin story." 

(5:31) His teaching focus.

(8:04) Discussion on startups and venture capital and the era of AI. Behavioral finance and bubbles. 

(11:17) Bubbles in private (VC and PE) and public markets.

(15:12) Staying private vs going public fundamentals.

(20:05) The role of governance and advice from directors to CEOs.

(22:43) On growth of private equity.

(28:00) On the rise and importance of AI. Analogy to electricity. *Reference to Paul David's research.

(29:31) On Elon Musk's compensation litigation and the recent Tesla stockholder comp ratification.

(36:13) On the role of directors. "It's really hard to be a good board member." "[Directors] better darn well get comfortable with asking not only tough questions, but dumb questions."

(40:32) On Texas and Delaware's corporate law competition.

(42:04) On the politicization of the boardroom (i.e. ESG) and geopolitics involving China.

(48:11) Books that he recommends reading: The History of English Law Before the Time of Edward I  by Pollock and Maitland (1895).

(48:57)  His mentors in the area of law.

(50:47)  Quotes that he thinks of often or lives his life by.

(51:57) An unusual habit or absurd thing that he loves.

(54:16) About his podcast Unsiloed.

Greg LaBlanc is a Lecturer and Distinguished Teaching Fellow at Berkeley, Stanford, HEC Paris and other prestigious institutions. Greg teaches a wide range of subjects, including finance, strategy, law, innovation, data science, and digital transformation. He is also the host of the podcast Unsiloed.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro.

(1:21) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(2:08) Start of interview.

(2:41) Jennifer's "origin story." 

(3:41) Founding a non-profit at the start of her career: Breakthrough Pittsburgh.

(4:15) The start of her tech career with Yahoo!

(7:12) Her roles post Yahoo!: founding and selling The Dealmap to Google.

(9:20) Her transition and tenure as president & COO of Change.org (scaling from 18 million to 200 million users). About her Motivational Pie Chart.

(11:07) About Change.org (a social impact campaigning platform) and non-profit and PBC corporate structures.

(14:18) Her time at Facebook (now Meta), leading the Facebook Groups product.

(16:00) About Rising Team, the company she founded and where she currently serves as CEO.

(22:10) On her board journey, and distinctions among different types of companies: non-profits, startups (Little Passports), public companies (Move, TEGNA & WeightWatchers) and VC/PE backed companies. "The truth is to join a public board, somebody needs to take a bet on you if you've never been on a public board."

(32:19) On serving in a VC/PE backed company as a lead independent director and comp committee Chair (Arcadia). On board observer roles. Setting board norms.

(36:55) On the benefit of boardroom diversity.

(39:17) On dealing with the politicization of the boardroom, including DEI and ESG matters.

(42:06) On the benefits of teaching (at Stanford GSB) for her CEO and board roles .

(39:17) On dealing with the politicization of the boardroom, including DEI and ESG matters.

(44:15) Three things top of mind on boardroom matters: 1) Setting up boards for success (norms, board evaluations, etc),  2) Keeping up with new technologies, and 3) Crisis scenario planning.

(49:00) Books that have greatly influenced her life: 

1. Gung Ho,  by Ken Blanchard and Sheldon Bowles (1997)
2. The Overstory, by Richard Powers (2018)

(51:14)  Her mentors.*Reference to her LinkedIn Post: 5 Mentor Archetypes.

(51:57)  Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by.

(53:15) About her book: Purposeful: Are you a Manager or a Movement Starter? (2018) The 3 Cs: 1) courage, 2) community, and 3) commitment.

(54:40) An unusual habit or absurd thing that she loves.

(56:00)  The living person she most admires: Simone Biles.

Jennifer Dulski is a Silicon Valley based executive and board member. She is currently CEO and founder of Rising Team, a company that provides tools, data, and community to turn managers into amazing coaches that build happier and more successful teams.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro.

(1:24) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(2:12) Start of interview.

(4:04) Sonita's "origin story." 

(5:45) Her professional career, starting with a startup in the gaming industry.

(8:15) Her guiding principles for her career at the intersection of innovation, sustainability and digital transformation.

(9:30) Her roles at HP, Siemens and PG&E.

(11:00) Her board "portfolio" life starting in 2022: SunRun and TrueBlue. Advisor to Sway Ventures.

(14:02) About the NACD Blue Ribbon Commission on Board Culture (where she served as a Commissioner).

(17:00) Surprises and takeaways from the report.

(22:30) Recommendations for handling the increasing politicization in the boardroom. 

(26:42) On geopolitics in the boardroom. Supply-chain vs consumer market.

(31:30) On the solar and battery industry geopolitical landscape. 

(38:23) How should directors think about AI in the boardroom. "Everyday AI" vs "Game-changing AI". Use cases: 1) Back-office capabilities, 2) core capabilities, 3) front office, 4) New products and services. AI code of conduct. Use of data. Cybersecurity.

(43:51) On the impact of AI in the workplace. *reference to study by Erik Brynjolfsson

(47:09) Books that have greatly influenced her life: 

1. The Five Levels of Leadership,  by John Maxwell (2011)
2. Venture Mindset, by Ilya Strebulaev and Alex Dang (2024)
3. Last Lecture Series at the Stanford Graduate School of Business (July 2023), by Graham Weaver.

(48:06)  Her mentors. 

(49:22)  Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by.

(50:44) An unusual habit or absurd thing that she loves.

(51:30)  The living person she most admires. 

Sonita Lontoh is a public company board director, strategic advisor, and former Fortune 100 senior executive who focuses on digital innovation, artificial intelligence (AI), and sustainability — contributing positive impact to businesses, consumers, and society.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro.

(1:14) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(2:02) Start of interview.

(2:37) Coco's "origin story." 

(4:32) Her professional background with HR, comp and IT.

(6:32) Her time at Taos, a professional services business in IT consulting (17yrs). Ultimately acquired by IBM in 2021.

(8:35) The origin story of her founding Athena Alliance (2016) as a non-profit.

(11:00) Three core issues with board placements: 1) access to opportunities, 2) positioning for the role, and 3) how to compete to win. *They have placed ~500 women to boards.

(13:52) On the business model of Athena Alliance.

(16:50) On transitioning from a non-profit to a for-profit model. 

(20:56) Distinguishing board service between companies with different capital structures (ie. public, PE, VC, ESOPs, etc).

(22:18) The landscape for independent director board opportunities (~30,000 companies). On ESOP companies and closed corporations and/or family businesses.

(28:18) On Athena's Board Readiness Course.

(32:20) On in-person vs remote work, both on an executive and board level. "How do you scale intimacy?"

(36:14) On the impact of AI in the boardroom. 

(39:48) Books that have greatly influenced her life: 

1. The Popcorn Report,  by Faith Popcorn (1991)
2. The Science of Evil, by Simon Baron-Cohen (2011)

(43:05)  Her mentors. "Different people for different things" e.g. Ivonne Wassenar and Scott Maxwell.

(44:20)  Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by.

(44:41) An unusual habit or absurd thing that she loves.

(45:12)  The living person she most admires. Toni Townes-Whitley (CEO of SAIC)

Coco Brown is the Founder and CEO of Athena Alliance, a company helping to position top 10% of executive women for advancement and board opportunities. 

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro.

(1:17) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(2:03) Start of interview.

(3:08) Greg's "origin story." 

(6:53) From the University of Georgia to Apple in Cuppertino.

(10:50) The start of his entrepreneurial journey in 1992 with his first company.

(13:03) The boom and bust cyclical nature of Silicon Valley. "[M]y father used to say that the stock market has predicted nine of the last three recessions. And, you know, I think in Silicon Valley, the investor and entrepreneurial class has predicted nine of the last three technology waves."

(17:24) His first foray with startup boards. The role and influence of Don Lucas, and Bob Frick (former CFO of BoA), on his board.

(21:49) On the shifting power dynamics in founder-investor relationships (ascendance of "founder ethos").

(29:02) On the differences between private equity (PE) and venture capital (VC). "Control investors"

(31:29) His experience as a director of public companies: Responsys, acquired by Oracle (2013), and Upwork (IPO in 2018).

(34:57) On equity comp (stock options and RSUs)  in tech companies. *Reference to BG2 podcast episode.

(47:35) IPOs, private markets and secondary markets. *You can check out my newsletter #52 on this topic.

(54:24) On his investment in Cornershop (acquired by Uber) and Latin America market.

(1:00:58) On AI as the next technology platform shift.

(1:03:50)  Books that have greatly influenced his life: 

1. Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller,  by Ron Chernow (1998)
2. Thinking Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman (2011)
3. Black Boy, by Richard Wright (1945)

(1:05:36) His mentors.

(1:07:00) Quotes that he thinks of often or lives her life by: "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want."

(1:07:47) An unusual habit or absurd thing that he loves.

(1:08:28) The living person he most admires.

Greg Gretsch is a Founding Partner and Managing Director of Jackson Square Ventures, an early stage venture capital firm that invests in software businesses.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro.

(1:23) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(2:10) Start of interview.

(2:40) Patrick's "origin story." 

(3:41) His time at Skadden and Olshan Frome Wolosky (leading shareholder activism legal practice).

(4:38) Joining Vinson & Elkins to co-build shareholder activism practice.

(6:40) Distinguishing between large, mid, and small cap activism.

(10:14) Reference to Lazard's 2023 Annual Review of Activism and Patrick's 2024 trends to watch out in activism.

(13:39) On ESG activism, and the impact of Exxon Mobil case ("[I]t was more of a capital allocation campaign, rather than ESG"). Distinguishing the Starbucks ESG campaign (targeting Starbucks' labor relations).

(18:29) Separating E, S, and G activist campaigns. "The 'S' is inherently political"

(20:29) On the evolution of Universal Proxy Rules for director elections. 

(27:06) On the "lifecycle of a campaign" (activists' letters, withdrawals, settlements, proxy fights, etc.)

(31:36) The impact of institutional investors and proxy advisors (ISS and Glass Lewis) in shareholder activism. *Reference to the Problem of Twelve episode with HLS Prof John Coates.

(37:50) The importance of shareholder engagement (with large institutional investors and proxy advisors).

(40:55) On company or board preparedness for activist campaigns.

(44:45)  Books that have greatly influenced his life: 

1. If I Die in a Combat Zone by Tim O'Brien (1973)
2. Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman (2011)
3. David and Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell (2013)
4. On Shareholder Activism:
   1. DisneyWar by James B. Steward (2005)
   2. Railroader by Hunter Harrison (2018)
   3. The Splendid and the Vile (Saga of Churchill) by Erik Larson (2020)

(47:53) His mentors.

(49:00) Quotes that he thinks of often or lives her life by.

(49:55) An unusual habit or absurd thing that he loves.

(50:35) The living person he most admires.

Patrick Gadson is the Co-Head of Vinson & Elkins’ Shareholder Activism practice, which advises public companies in competitive proxy solicitations, strategic investor relations, and corporate governance.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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(0:00) Intro.

(1:10) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(1:57) Start of interview.

(2:40) Leah's "origin story." 

(3:41) Her time at IBM.

(4:48) Her founding story of TaskRabbit (Boston, 2008).

(12:43) The evolution of her board at TaskRabbit, and how to think about (startup) board composition and scaling. 

(20:31) First CEO succession (after $12m Series B in 2012).

(25:10) Her return as CEO, raising a Series C, and adding 3 strategic independent directors.

(26:13) On hiring Stacy Brown-Philpot as COO, and successor to CEO role.

(30:45) Distinguishing between startup directors (management, investor, and independent directors).

(36:01) Transitioning to investing as a general partner at Fuel Capital. Motto: "We're on your corner, not in your kitchen"

(40:55) On the role of CEO coaches (vs board directors or advisors).

(42:44) About YPO. "It has been a hugely influential organization for me."

(45:21) Her thoughts on boardroom diversity. Reference to the LCDA.

(48:42) Innovation in the boardroom, risks and opportunities of AI.

(51:29)  Books that have greatly influenced her life: 

1. Founders at Work by Jessica Livingston (2007)
2. Books by Adam Grant.

(51:51) Her mentors.

(52:25) Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by.

(52:50) An unusual habit or absurd thing that she loves.

(54:15) The living person she most admires.

Leah Solivan is a General Partner at Fuel Capital, a Silicon Valley-based seed stage venture capital firm. Prior to that, she was the founder, CEO and Executive Chair at TaskRabbit.

You can follow her on social media at:

Twitter: @labunleashed

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro.

(1:10) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(1:58) Start of interview.

(2:43) His role at EY and appointments at Harvard's Safra Center for Ethics (ELSCE), MIT and Boston University.

(5:23) Defining AI. Reference to the 1956 Dartmouth AI conference.

(8:29) GAI, AI market and valuations.

(11:31) On AI Ethics for business and AI governance. Reference to Harvard's Danielle Allen.

(15:10) On the concept of Multistakeholderism and AI Ethics. Hippocratic Oath for AI: "Do No Harm to the World."

(19:10) Board Committee Structure for AI. "[Only] 67 of the  S&P500 companies have some sort of board technology committee." NACD report on board technology committees. "You may get a financial boost from doing that" "I think that'll be 50% greater a year from now."

(22:39) On board oversight. A deep dive on evolution of Caremark duties.

(31:09) On AI regulation. 

(34:41) Geopolitics between the U.S. and China on AI.

(37:44) On OpenAI's board fiasco. Unusual structures such as OpenAI, Anthropic, Inflection AI and xAI.

(44:02) Recommendations for directors using AI.

(47:40) The intersection between Web3 and AI.

(50:00) On his EY Podcast: Better Innovation.

(51:15) Other thoughts for directors: university partnerships and risks of employee use of GAI.

(54:22)  Books that have greatly influenced his life: 

1. Tennis related books.
2. The Fish that Ate the Whale by Rich Cohen (2012)
3. Disrupt Yourself by Whitney Johnson (2015) *

(55:47) His mentors. At EY: Kate Barton (EY Global Co-Chair, Emeritus).

(56:18) Quotes that he thinks of often or lives his life by: "Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can do." (Arthur Ashe) and "No matter how far you travel in the wrong direction, you can always turn around." (Winston Churchill).

(56:53) An unusual habit or absurd thing that he loves.

(58:04) The living person he most admires: Billy Jean King.

Jeff Saviano is the EY Emerging Technology Strategy & Governance Leader. 

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License