In Bonus Episode #05, Brent MacKinnon jumps into the interviewer chair, reversing the roles with show host- Jef Szi. At nearly eighty years of age and with a tremendous range of life experiences (poet, combat war veteran, grandfather, teacher ++), Mac brings a littany of inquiry with mirth and erudition. With the efficiency of a marine, he grills Jef to find out where his substance is and isn’t. Jef makes good on his promise to take Mac’s incoming fire, benevolent as it turned out ot be.

This bonus episode is a genuine conversation between these two men from different periods in the American story. With Mac’s examplary lines of questioning to his younger counterpart, the show covers a range of life issues: stress, healing, harmony, podcasting, fathers, death, mistakes, and prophecy. It’s a rich and expansive pod session between two recent friends, providing How Humans Work Podcast listeners an inner-view on what makes Jef tick.