Hi, everyone. I’m Sam Shirazi, and this is Federal Fallout, the 2025 Virginia Elections. This is a special bonus interview with Todd Truitt. He is an attorney in Arlington, and he also spends a lot of time working on education policy. And I wanted to have him on because obviously there’s been coverage of education in this election, but I think sometimes the actual policy discussion is missed. And I think Todd is well regarded on both sides of the aisle. And in terms of his knowledge of education, he’s a father of kids who go to public schools in Virginia. I also have kids who go to public school in Virginia, so I thought it’ would be interesting to hear from an actual parent on this issue as well.

00:41.05

Sam Shirazi

So, with that Todd, thanks for joining me.

00:43.65

Todd Truitt

No, thanks for having me, Sam. It’s a, it’s an honor to join your podcast. I’m a big, big listener.

00:48.77

Sam Shirazi

Yeah, so to to begin, you know what made you interested in education?

00:53.85

Todd Truitt

Well, you know, I am a first generation. I was a first generation college student and, you know, I, I just, now I have two kids in public schools. I’m involved in the public schools, and Arlington public schools, which very much a big fan of Arlington public schools, but, you know, I, I just see from kind of a lived experience perspective.

01:13.19

Todd Truitt

like what kids have that have kind of two educated parents versus kids that don’t have, and the expectations that are set at home versus kids that don’t have those kind of resources in-house and kind of like what public schools should be providing.

01:28.50

Sam Shirazi

That makes sense. And, you know, I think your background is helpful in terms of the work you’re doing on education, because obviously there’s been talk about education in this election. I find the media tends to just focus on the trans issue, which, you know, frankly,

01:44.13

Sam Shirazi

I know a lot of parents who have kids in public schools is probably the least of their concern. They’re mostly concerned about things related to reading, writing, math, trying to make sure their kids are learning, and that often gets missed in the political conversation.

01:58.76

Sam Shirazi

So can you kind of talk about how education policy fits in, even though you don’t always hear about it on the campaign trail?

02:05.31

Todd Truitt

Well, yeah, and no, Sam, I expressed your disappointment, too, with kind of this year. And i would say this, you know, I think first to just talk about the trans issue, it’s not a great polling issue for Democrats. It splits activists from the rank and file voters.

02:20.01

Todd Truitt

But I think Republicans love to talk about it to kind of, quote unquote, own the libs. And the amount but the amount of press coverage it’s gotten is just really kind of mind boggling from the kind of effect that it has versus kind of really bread and butter issues as to.

02:35.44

Todd Truitt

kids learning. And i think you’re exactly right that like what regular parents care about are kids learning or not. You know, i think say second point is that if you saw that, you know, I didn’t watch all the debate, but but I read up on it.

02:50.11

Todd Truitt

And I think other than the trans question that came up and correct me if I’m wrong, the only other k through 12 ed question was about the, know, the Terry McAuliffe kind of throwaway question from 2021. that correct?

03:03.49

Sam Shirazi

Yeah, I mean, i don’t think at the debate, education was a big part of it. And I i think, to your point, you know, at the policy level, there’s a lot of things that actually the parties agree on. And I think there is a lot of things that that is somewhat bipartisan, both in the General Assembly, and in terms of the governor’s office. So I I think part of it is, you know, there’s more in common than we than we like to think sometimes in terms of the actual policy side side of things.

03:32.69

Sam Shirazi

So I think that’s part of it. I think that the campaign in the media likes to highlight the contrast. And so think it’s interesting to talk about, you know where there might be actually bipartisan agreement on some of this education policy.

03:44.80

Todd Truitt

Yeah, and that’s kind of where I got involved a year and a half ago, almost two years ago, is that yeah I was seeing these things, kind of these press articles like Republicans say this, Democrats say that.

03:55.77

Todd Truitt

And there’s just so much kind of things that actually both have in common. And yeah I just started writing on these things and you know unfortunately to find places to kind of publish Education analyses in Virginia is just you know few and far between, but yeah I’ve published in the kind of conservative-leaning blog, Bacon’s Rebellion.

04:15.90

Todd Truitt

To his credit, James Bacon will publish everyone. He publishes Paul Goldman and David Toscano and others. I just did an interview with Skylar von Valkenberg on his and Dan Helmer’s big SOL testing reform efforts coming up.

04:32.37

Todd Truitt

They passed a law this last year. They’re going to there’ll be another bill this session. And it’s it’s bipartisan. It’s got a lot of bipartisan input. And it’s going to be nine-figure kind of reform. Probably one of the biggest things that we’re going to do in the state in the next four years, five years.

04:50.58

Todd Truitt

And it’s it’s a rigor-raising, know, raising the bar, kind of make our schools better. It’s great. I also have another interview with Skylar again. Well, it’s the same lunch over tacos and Skylar’s district on the account accountability, the new accountability system. and and that was done by the Yonkin administration, but Schuyler, Senator von Valkenberg, Russette Perry, and Cannon Sreenivasan actually killed a bill in the Senate in the last session that would have delayed that system, and that that that new accountability system.

05:23.07

Todd Truitt

And that wasn’t reported on the press too. So, and I also did an op-ed in the Richmond Times Dispatch this past summer, but but yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, It’s is there a market for that level of of press coverage that can is financially worth it? That’s a question. So it’s up to kind of volunteers to fill fill the void like you do on election and analysts analyses.

05:45.71

Sam Shirazi

Well, yeah, it’s good to have like voices also like regular people who have kids in school, because I think a lot of times the space is dominated by kind of people who don’t really have stake in the game. So I did want to ask you about a specific policy question, because to be perfectly honest, you know, I grew up taking a lot of tests in school and I’m, I have some skepticism of it because I do worry about teaching to the test, but I know that there needs to be some way to measure

06:07.14

Todd Truitt

Thank

06:12.60

Sam Shirazi

if kids are learning. So can you kind of walk through some of the nuances of testing and the pros and cons and what you think, how it makes sense to use testing in education context?

06:23.64

Todd Truitt

Yeah, no, no. And this is one where I’m a lawyer. I geek out on this stuff. So the testing is actually required. So by federal law, there you must have state standardized tests in grade three through eight for math and for English.

06:38.74

Todd Truitt

And you have to do and then one for one year in high school. And for science, you must do it once every three years in grades three through five, six through eight, and then in high school.

06:50.77

Todd Truitt

And then We have state kind of testing requirements for social studies, and I might be missing a few things. But I think the thing that gets lost about the testing is, is that 2015, so there was no child left behind in 2002.

07:06.86

Todd Truitt

And that is what made our 2001 and that is what mandated statewide testing and the states had a few years to implement it. But in 2015, we roll back some of No Child Left Behind with the Every Student Succeeds Act.

07:20.19

Todd Truitt

You know one one thing to notice is that the co-author of that bill was U.S. Representative Bobby Scott and from Virginia. And in his focus, he actually added a lot of things to that bill to to raise the rigorous to the least performing schools that were just really, really great.

07:37.100

Todd Truitt

But I digress, though. But the reason why that testing is in there is because civil rights organizations are big advocates of it. They they they are. I saw a presentation by Denise Ford, who’s the head of the Education Trust. That’s one of the leading education groups for civil rights.

07:56.92

Todd Truitt

And she was talking about how they’re just scared to death that the Trump administration would waive testy because it is so important to see insights into how those least performing, the kind of least advantaged kids are performing. So I think that’s one thing that gets lost in the conversation.

08:11.100

Todd Truitt

Are standardized tests perfect? No, not not at all. You know, if there was a better system, i am all for it. But, and I think that, you know, in my interview with Skylar, like Virginia’s tests are pretty outdated and, you know, they need to be updated.

08:26.56

Todd Truitt

And I agree with him that, you know, no one disagrees with teaching to an AP exam. But, but yeah, I mean, I, I’m very hopeful this next legislative session that we’re going to get the funding to really kind of bring our testing system into the 21st century, uh, into, yeah, 21st century and into, to this decade and basically into the next decade.

08:49.83

Sam Shirazi

And, you know, looking ahead to the next governor and next General Assembly, you know, whoever ends up winning, i mean what do you think some of the areas are that the parties can work together to try to make some progress on education? Because I know a lot of people move to Virginia specifically for the schools. And obviously, we want to keep the schools really top notch. You know how do you think the parties can do that while there’s all this other division with other stuff going on?

09:16.79

Todd Truitt

Well, you know, I think you see a kind of push in both parties to really kind raise the standards. And I think that if you go back 10 years, and and I call it the federal fallout in education, because that’s when the federal government stepped back.

09:31.30

Todd Truitt

And the idea was is that the states would fill the void. And we saw in much of the United States, including in Virginia, they didn’t. There was a number of changes that, you know, you’ll never hear Republicans admit it, but they were bipartisan to kind of cut back on testing, cut back on, you know, we lowered the bar on accreditation. There was a number of changes And the results are in after 10 years. And you see states like Mississippi and Louisiana kicking our butt. And pretty much if you look at the NAEP scores, for if you look at the demographic subgroup scores, you know it’s Mississippi is outperforming us and for African-American kids, for Hispanic kids, for economically disadvantaged, the least advantaged kind of demographics.

10:12.40

Todd Truitt

But then you look at like white kids and economically advantaged kids and Mississippi outperforms us on those subgroups as well. The same with Louisiana. So I think that, you know, you see both parties, it’s really a new generation on ed policy that’s in charge versus 10 years ago.

10:30.02

Todd Truitt

And both parties are talking about kind of raising the rigor. I think One kind of change is if Democrats are in charge, you’re going to see a lot more money going to the public school system. I do think that the, you know, i am a Democrat. I think that the there should be more funding for a state of our wealth to our public school system. Now, I think states states like Mississippi and Louisiana have really kind of proven that it’s not just about money, but I’m all about an all of the above approach.

10:58.53

Todd Truitt

Mississippi was very big and Louisiana had been very, very big on kind of raising standards, you know, pushing those high standards as civil rights groups push for. So but I do think that from a perspective of like, you know, the Sears, if Sears wins, it’s kind of a black box.

11:16.77

Todd Truitt

I would think that she will continue with what Youngkin has been pushing. But if you look at her website, she has like a paragraph on Ed Policy, You Spanberger put out a very, very detailed kind of plan on EdPol. And a lot of this stuff is about upholding Virginia’s high standards. There’s a lot of stuff on kind of raising the standards, raising the rigor of the schools also while sending the money.

11:40.62

Todd Truitt

But Sears really just kind of talks about school choice. And that’s it. I saw an interview, too, with a group called Capital News Service. It’s an article detailing the EdPlan.

11:51.46

Todd Truitt

They reached out to the Sears campaign like multiple times and for an ed plan and that would they they did not send one. So it’s kind of a black box, kind of a long answer. But I think that the General Assembly is really kind of probably you know like what the what has been proposed with the s SOL testing reform.

12:11.05

Todd Truitt

With, you know, one thing that you could also see is we have a very, very outdated finance system here in Virginia. Antiquated is putting it lightly. And that really needs to get updated. We fund school systems, not the actual students.

12:25.85

Todd Truitt

It’s an extremely complex issue. But I know both parties want to change that. There’s a whole funding kind of amount issue. I think that that probably becomes more likely if Spanberger wins versus Sears.

12:39.60

Sam Shirazi

And, you know, I wanted to pick up on the specific examples of Mississippi and Louisiana, because, you know, there are parts of Virginia that the schools have had issues. You know, you often hear about Northern Virginia, the schools are so great. But I do think parts of Virginia, more economically disadvantaged urban areas like in Hampton Roads and possibly, you know, more rural areas in Southwest Virginia, the schools could use a lot of improvements, both, you know, from a physical standpoint, improving the schools themselves, but also, you know, the test scores and and making sure the students are learning better.

13:10.56

Sam Shirazi

How do you think Virginia can help close the gap between, you know, the really high performing schools in Northern Virginia and some of the other schools that could do better?

13:19.42

Todd Truitt

Look, I mean, I’m an education realist. Look, there’s there’s a lot, and you know this, Sam, there’s a lot of learning that happens outside of school. There’s a lot of, you know, just socioeconomic benefits to, you know, kids growing up in a family with two advanced degrees. But I do think schools, you public schools is probably the biggest kind of social mobility equalizer in society.

13:41.44

Todd Truitt

And so when you look at like and, you know, there’s some stories being told, some success stories being told that are not being told in Virginia. And one is Wise County in southwest Virginia.

13:52.64

Todd Truitt

Very poor county. There’s a guy down there, Matt Hurt, not Matt Hurt from Twitter fame, of the Arlington Republic County, a Republican County, but another guy. He runs this program called the Comprehensive Instructional Program in Virginia.

14:06.45

Todd Truitt

they have about 40 districts down there that they handle but i mean the results they are getting there are just phenomenal and i talked to a lot of like democratic policy makers and a lot of them don’t know of that story of of what matt is doing down there and i think that you know there’s some major highlights i think also a lot of what was on the prior accreditation system It was spitting out numbers for decade plus that said, you know, basically 90 percent of schools are accredited, 10 percent or not, with no distinguishment in those 90 percent of schools.

14:39.10

Todd Truitt

And it had a lot of kind of opaque metrics. And I think that that’s going to help our, and you know, that was I was a big supporter of the new accountability system. You there’s a lot of success stories in Virginia that are just not being told to the public.

14:52.12

Todd Truitt

And to state lawmakers, too. And I’m very optimistic that that can be told. But, you know, it’s a long answer. But yes, I’m very big on that Virginia needs to increase its funding as well.

15:04.07

Sam Shirazi

And, you know, I think there are some bills that have been passed in the previous General Assembly and you have previewed some that might come up in the next General Assembly.

15:14.88

Sam Shirazi

you know What do you think the role of the General Assembly and the governor is in setting education policy versus the local school district? Because you often hear about that kind of tension between the the state, the local, and now we have the federal government in some instances trying to get involved with local school board decisions. So, I mean, how much do you think the local school board is important versus some of the state level decisions?

15:41.78

Todd Truitt

Yeah, and I think that not to completely wonk out, but I think your your listeners that are a big in politics will like this, is that there’s really kind of what I call four quadrants of kind of education kind of politics. And you have a split on the Democratic side between kind of these local controlled Democrats who are a lot of like the unions, the school boards, the superintendents.

16:04.08

Todd Truitt

And then you have kind of reform oriented Democrats. And those are you the civil rights groups. You have a lot of kind of suburban parents. and And then on a Republican side, you have these kind of reform oriented Republicans.

16:16.39

Todd Truitt

It’s a lot of suburban kind of Republicans. And then you have this popular populist parent rights Republicans, which has gotten yeah a lot bigger in the last five in the last five to 10 years. So you kind of like look at that split.

16:31.51

Todd Truitt

And I think that, you know, in i just think that having watched a lot of school board meetings and there’s a new study by David Houston, he co-authored, he’s a George Mason professor, really like watching a bunch of school board meetings.

16:47.27

Todd Truitt

And the amount of time they spend on actually out academic outcome data is very limited. I mean, their their expertise to do so is is very limited as well. And you’ve seen kind of the results on that the last 10 years as the federal federal government kind of stepped back from doing that.

17:04.48

Todd Truitt

And the state has that, you know, the scores have gone down. And you look, I don’t blame these kind of like, you know, stakeholders in education. I’ve been a lawyer in highly regulated industries for 20 years.

17:18.08

Todd Truitt

No one likes regulation. But I think the results are kind of speaking for themselves. And you really kind of see legislation-wise the past five years, not just the Yonkin administration, but also kind of Democrats and the legislators saying, look, we’re we’re funding these schools with a lot of money.

17:35.22

Todd Truitt

The results are not showing. We’re going to step in. So, you know, I want to just... call out a few things. There was a Virginia letter Literacy Act that was passed in 2022, amended in 2024.

17:47.44

Todd Truitt

That was Luis Lucas, Jennifer McClellan, Carrie Coiner. There were some other folks, too. There was also the cell phone ban in schools. That was the Yunkin administration. Really kind of led on that. But all of the legislators, except for two, voted for this they you know ban of bell to bell.

18:04.76

Todd Truitt

very popular with parents. There’s this advanced math auto enroll law. Hasn’t gotten the press that it deserves, but that was Delegate Katrina Coulson. There’s a high quality instructional materials bill that was passed by Sam Rasool, Skylar von Valkenburg, Kerry Koiner.

18:21.61

Todd Truitt

So you could kind of go on and on. And I think the meta level, what you’re looking at is you’re looking at both parties in Virginia saying, hey, we’re taking back a little bit of data power here From schools with with regards to academic outcomes, you know, they’re probably not going to say that blatantly because you get you have people on both sides, Republican and Democratic side that are fiercely for local control.

18:44.70

Todd Truitt

But I think on this academic outcome areas where you’re going to see the state continue to kind of creep up on the power of local localities to kind of take it back.

18:53.79

Sam Shirazi

Yeah, I mean, I think that makes sense. And I think that cell phone ban has in schools is or limiting cell phones in schools. but It’s a good example, because I think almost everyone was behind that. And as an example that education can be less polarized than it often is portrayed, i guess one question would be, you know, going forward.

19:14.46

Sam Shirazi

you know how do we or the education community try to kind of depolarize the school’s issue? Because my sense is a lot of parents don’t want to these schools to become this kind of cultural battleground hotbed. They just want to focus on learning and I think that’s a frustration that a lot of parents have that both in the media and some of the political spaces, it’s become so polarized.

19:41.03

Sam Shirazi

You know, is there any way to do that, to depolarize it, or is it just the reality that now it’s become kind of this cultural battleground?

19:49.26

Todd Truitt

I mean, look, I think that, you know, you’ll, yeah yo you people, you know, complain about the demise of local press. And I think that’s, that’s part of the reason because, you know, there’s just less of a demand for these kinds of things financially. And you’ve seen a lot of local press coverage that would, you know, typically cover these things is just not doing so anymore. Because, I mean, see massive layoffs at the Richmond Times Dispatch, rounds of layoffs, you know, it’s like, you know, I don’t know who’s keeping the lights on over there, but, know,

20:19.26

Todd Truitt

you know i think that’s one thing and i i’m hoping that there’ll be some more kind of independent people that kind of step in the void to cover these things from public interest perspective you know because people ask me my kids do a bunch of sports you’re like they’re like are you volunteering to do sports i’m like well i i volunteer and do a a different activity that i i hope that is kind of helping out the larger community

20:41.26

Sam Shirazi

Yeah. And so to that a point, let’s say you have a you know quick meeting with whoever’s elected the next governor. What would you tell that person about what they should be doing on education policy in Virginia?

20:54.26

Todd Truitt

Well, yeah, I mean, I think that they you should be working with, as I’ve told both sides that, you know, you should be talking to each other. i just think there’s so much room for agreement. I think that what we’re seeing with both parties really now wanting to kind of get in and rate raise the bar.

21:12.52

Todd Truitt

I think there’s a lot of room for agreement. And, you know, look, there’s a lot of political theater. I get it. You know, I’m not I’m never going to be an elected official because I have no interest in it And you you see the political theater that goes on. You can’t compliment the other side because you got an election coming up. It’s frustrating, but it’s the world that we live in. And that’s the that’s how laws are made.

21:36.87

Todd Truitt

We don’t have a benevolent dictator here in the United States. So but but I do think, you know, I think that the Spanberger campaign has it in there.

21:47.43

Todd Truitt

in their policy platform. And Ghazal Hashmi had a bill last time. Like on Math Ed, I think there needs to be a significant, and this is kind of one of the things I write about. I think that there needs to be a significant focus on Math Ed. I mean, and the Virginia Literacy Act, and not to get too wonky, but for years, the biggest thing out of ed schools were ways to teach kids kids to read that did were not proven to work.

22:13.89

Todd Truitt

And there’s ideological reasons that yeah we could do. There’s an excellent eight part podcast on it called Sold a Story. But that’s what kind of Luis Lucas and others did with the Virginia Literacy Act is to basically roll that out and tell schools, no, you need to teach kids the proven ways that are proven to teach kids to read.

22:34.10

Todd Truitt

And I think that there could be something done on the math side. you know, we were 50 first state for math ed recovery on the national test that’s done called the NAEP. And the Spanberger campaign is definitely talking about that.

22:47.96

Todd Truitt

Hashmi had a bill last session with Shelly Simons to kind of do like what a VLA did the Virginia Literacy Act did. i will say I like that bill. I did not think it had enough guardrails around it as to sending the money to districts to make sure they they spend on those evidence-based methods and i’m hopeful if it gets re re-proposed that that evidence-based based language will be you know re-included because you know districts just are not doing enough on that and so i think that’s one one big thing for uh for the next session as well

23:26.04

Sam Shirazi

Well, let’s try to close that closer on a happier note. Let’s say, what do you think Virginia schools are doing right? Because I i mean, i’m in Northern Virginia, the schools in Northern Virginia are very good. People move to Virginia for the schools. you know What do you think, at least some things that they’re doing correct and that they could potentially build upon going forward?

23:46.83

Todd Truitt

No, I think that, you know, Virginia school, like from what I have seen in Arlington and I know a lot of other districts, there’s a lot of ways for parents to get involved in kind of school.

23:58.48

Todd Truitt

Like we have various different curriculum committees. They’re very, very open to parent feedback, you know, in terms a lot of different ways to do so. So, and I know other districts are like that. Well, you know, some people will complain about, wow, they don’t listen to us, et cetera.

24:13.84

Todd Truitt

But the fact that they’re there and actually listening and everything, I think from a parent perspective, is just very, very refreshing. I mean, look, we have a very highly educated populace here.

24:25.62

Todd Truitt

And so I think that you know a lot of times the schools are with a lot of kids that are born on third base. And we offer some amazing academic opportunities.

24:36.13

Todd Truitt

I do think in Northern Virginia, we could do better. There’s a number of schools with some very, you know people are like oh, Northern Virginia is so rich. There’s a lot of you know pockets of very kind of underperforming, you know so low socioeconomic kids.

24:49.85

Todd Truitt

And I don’t think that we are doing enough to help those kids. And the NAEP scores show it, the test scores show it. And unfortunately, we had a system in place previously with the prior accreditation system that just wasn’t telling that story for the public. Nobody knew about it.

25:06.81

Todd Truitt

And I think that, you know, with the new, whenever the new system releases its results, it’s going to kind of tell a story to these kids. left-leaning communities that, hey, look, you know, we need to be doing more to kind of helping out these kind of underprivileged districts. But but otherwise, i think that, you know, would the opportunities that these schools in Northern Virginia offer kids in terms of advanced academics and things is really just unbelievable. You know, one thing that’s kind of hot right now in the ed policy circuit too that I got to mention is raising what’s called the cut scores.

25:40.42

Todd Truitt

And that’s the kind of proficiency, what’s considered proficient to pass the standardized tests for math and reading. And, you know, what’s not been talked about is that the U.S. Department Education comes out Every two years with where those kind of benchmarks meet versus state standards in Virginia has had the lowest benchmarks in the country for the last like five plus years and the young campaign.

26:04.15

Todd Truitt

The Youngkin 2021 campaign ran on this. They’ve been working on it for three and a half years. There’s been a proposal now that the Board of Ed is gonna vote on on Thursday to raise those scores kind of similar to what Massachusetts is doing, Maryland is doing, Colorado is doing.

26:21.39

Todd Truitt

you know You see these Northern Virginia school districts raising just this huge ruckus. It’s actually a four or five year phase in period. and It’s just really been disappointing because I know our populace here believes in high standards, but it kind of going back to this conversation we had about the state, both parties in the state taking back power, is is that this is a better way for the state to monitor, for state policymakers to kind of monitor what’s going on and for parents.

26:51.15

Todd Truitt

So, you know, I’ve been a little pretty disappointed in the Northern Virginia school districts for this kind of knee-jerk opposition to it. but But overall, i have a fifth and a sixth grader. Like, I love the Virginia public school system. Look, I mean, it has problems like any institution does, public or private.

27:11.90

Todd Truitt

But I think everything is on the table that these things can be, you know, fixed. And I’m all for all of the above approach, raising standards, raising funding. And I’m just very kind of bullish in the next 10 years of where our school system will be.

27:27.78

Todd Truitt

when everything gets implemented over the next 10 years.

27:31.26

Sam Shirazi

Well, that’s good to hear. i did have one final question about this issue, because, as you mentioned, there isn’t a lot of news coverage about it, which is disappointing. If someone is interested in Virginia learning more about this next year, General Assembly, what the next governor does, you know what are some of your recommendations of how to follow along with what’s going on?

27:54.68

Todd Truitt

You know, I mean, well, I’m going to be writing about some of these things for sure, because, you know, and and there is some press coverage. I find some through Google News, obscure things, obscure publications.

28:08.05

Todd Truitt

Twitter, if you want to go into that cesspool, it’s addictive. I’m on it. And you find a lot there’s a lot of kind of Virginia. yeah Skyler von Valkenberg, he loves to tweet about ed policy.

28:19.85

Todd Truitt

And I follow him for a lot of that as well. And so so, yeah, I mean, it is at this point, it’s really kind of ad hoc is the local press is kind of you know falling away on this kind of on these issues.

28:31.49

Sam Shirazi

Well, I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us and also for you know so spending your time highlighting these issues and trying to be an advocate for you know education policy because I do think it’s unfortunately lost in a lot of the debate about what’s going on in the schools. So anyways, thanks so much for joining me.

28:48.87

Todd Truitt

Thank you, Sam. Greatly appreciate it.

28:50.82

Sam Shirazi

All right. This has been Federal Fallout and i’ll join you next time.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit samshirazi.substack.com