Both/And with Paul Mann

Kim Scott is a New York Times best-selling author who spoke in opposition to my approach to anti-racism and -sexism work in an article in the SF Chronicle. The title of the podcast is relevant to the nature of our conversation, and is also the operating title of her next book. I feel grateful to have had such a nice conversation after a not-so-nice initial interaction. We cover a lot of territory in this one: How can we interact more compassionately and productive across difference (especially on the internet)? How does Radical Candor work for people of color in the workplace? And much more...

JuanCarlos Arauz works internationally to support school systems in seeing the skills and competencies that all students bring to bear, many if which are not captured in traditional testing. JuanCarlos is warm and wise, and he calls me out on my shit.

Karen Fleshman is a white woman who has been doing anti-racism work in the Bay Area and across the country for years. She’s passionate and energetic, one of those people that keeps the rest of us fired up. Karen and I talk about a lot. Perhaps most importantly we talk about the pitfalls of aspiring to be a white ally; always trying (and often failing) to get it right.

Tara Phillips is a dear, old friend. This conversation was really fun (it’s also about twice the length of the others)! Tara was instrumental in the development of my racial identity and I brought her on for this rollicking (yeah I said rollicking) conversation about, well, lots of things. Mostly race, equity, and whiteness… This episode is a bit of a recap of the others, but it’s also a great place to start :)