We've talked a lot about bravery on this podcast—what it looks like, how it feels, and why the brands that have it are winning.

But brave (or courageous) brands don’t happen without courageous leaders. And courageous teams.

So we were excited to chat with Ryan Berman, host of The Courageous Podcast, and expert on brave brands and brave behaviors.

We talk all about leading through uncertainty (hello AI, hello tariffs, hello world order), building the kind of team that doesn’t freeze or squash greatness when it’s needed most, how teams get unstuck, how polite culture kills bold ideas, and I ponder if social media managers might be the most future-ready leaders we’ve got.

This episode is one giant reminder that courage isn’t a campaign. It’s a muscle. Use it or you lose it, as my pilates instructor loves to say.

There’s a lot of wisdom, a little therapy, and a surprising rugby metaphor by yours truly.

Meet Ryan Berman

Ryan is a friend and the founder of Courageous. He’s spent 25+ years helping brands make braver decisions—before they’re forced to. He’s counseled leaders at Snapchat, Kellogg’s, Kraft Heinz, and Bausch & Lomb.

He’s done keynotes for just about everyone you can imagine. And his three-part framework—Knowledge × Faith × Action—builds courage from the inside out, so you can show up as the brand the world actually wants.

Ryan has interviewed over 220 guests—everyone from Navy SEALs to CEOs, astronauts to his 9-year-old—all on the topic of courageous leadership. (He once interviewed us, too. Give it a listen!) So, he’s a bit of an expert. And couldn’t be a nicer person to talk to about handling the ‘future’ we’re all currently walking into.

Enjoy!

Hit the links to skip to the bits you fancy

01:39 — THELMA, LOUISE & RYAN // Meet Ryan, a career fear-fighter.

05:40 — 220 INTERVIEWS, ONE TRUTH // The most surprising insight from Ryan’s 220 podcast conversations.

11:25 — KNOWLEDGE × FAITH × ACTION // Ryan’s three-part framework.

18:15 — SLOW IS SMOOTH, SMOOTH IS FAST // Why courageous teams should pause before they race ahead.

22:45 — IDEAS NEED LEADERSHIP // Courageous ideas die without courageous leaders.

25:55 — GOAT = GREATEST OF ALL TEAMS // Time to reframe GOAT. Are you working in one? If not, the first thing to ask is: why not?

34:10 — THE AGENCY DEATH SPIRAL // Is all creative work headed in-house? Is the agency to in-house back-and-forth cycle over? What still works about external partnerships—and what doesn’t.

41:05 — THE LONELY CMO // It’s lonely at the top. And that’s worth talking about.

44:45 — WELCOME TO WORRY WAR II // How panic is distorting strategy, and why a clear North Star is more necessary than ever.

48:20 — AI SIDEKICKS & CLARITY OVERLOAD // You’re not leading an 80-person team. You’re leading 160. Every human employee now has an AI assistant, and how that changes things.

50:16 — THE REAL COST OF “POLITE” // What’s the conversation your team keeps avoiding?

52:02 — PERFORMANCE ≠ PREFERENCE // AI is about to make every brand an expert marketer. Your ability to optimize won’t be your differentiation.

53:30 — COURAGE IS A MUSCLE // Bravery isn't a campaign. It’s something you have to practice. Daily. And it does get easier.

55:12 — SOCIAL TEAMS & FEARLESS LEADERS // Why social media managers might be the most prepared to be fearless leaders in the new era of AI.

Huge thanks to Ryan for joining us. Find him at ryanberman.com, on LinkedIn, or listen to The Courageous Podcast wherever you get yours.

That’s all, folx.

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ABOUT

Chris and Kirsten are the founders of IN GOOD CO, a consultancy that ignites challenger brands with fearless and proactive positioning.

Chris writes a weekly newsletter for +15K subscribers that shares the best-of-the-best on culture, trends, marketing, etc. What she's dropping to friends on Slack or finding useful in meetings with brands |Follow her on Substack

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