Brian J. Pombo Live

Part 4, of our five-part interview with Ari Galper of Unlock The Sales Game.

Topics covered in this episode

* Trusted Advisor vs. Trusted Authority* Fall Out of Love with Your Solution & Fall In Love With Their Problems* Ari's Upcoming Project (Book/Show): The One Call Sale

Full Convo https://brianjpombo.com/bjpchats/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct841ocY9HM

Transcription

Brain: We can go on and on Ari, I saw a clip of one of your videos, you had said that there's a difference between being a trusted adviser and trusted authority.

Can you touch on that a little bit?

Ari: Sure.

So the whole notion of trust advisor been along around for a long time and most people will classify themselves as a trusted adviser, not as salesperson.

They are the trusted advisor.

Oh yeah, I'm just like, you're a trusted advisor to those clients who already know you.

Sure, post sale.

But you're not a trusted advisor, someone who doesn't know you, presale.

That's a different way of thinking.

We have to become what I call a trusted authority, which we teach to professionals how to do consultants and advisors. That's a different way of thinking.

You have to be positioned yourself as an authority, you have to use a trust based process to engage them and enroll them because they don't really get to know you until after the sale.

And what I teach my clients to do is…this may sound crazy right now and it's a bit of a bomb, but we teach our clients to stop building relationships pre-sale.

That's the worst thing you can do.

Because relationships and trust building can now become mutually exclusive.

You can build trust with someone in a deep way. Without doing the whole fake rapport thing.

Oh, hi, how's it going?

How's the weather?

It's, oh, that's great, where are you from really.

All that is 1980s fake rapport that we're taught to do. And you know, what the other person knows is not real anyways, they don't want to become your friend.

But here we are trying to like get to know them better have a cup of coffee, go golfing, go network, and then hopefully one day, if they like us enough, well, then they'll buy from us.

Well, if you want to wait a long time for that, then feel free. But I'll tell you right now, that's just a game everyone knows.

And we have a process and a system here we're talking about the removes all that BS relationship building, which is fake anyways, save the real stuff when they're a client of yours.

But instead, focus strictly only on trust building.

There's a metaphor we use around here, you know, you become the doctor, they're the patient.

Doctors don't become your friend, doctors, I got a new bumper sticker coming out for the back of your car, you know, the bumper is just gonna say that doctors don't do coffee. Doctors don't do LinkedIn. Doctors don't do networking.

Doctors have a system and a process to diagnose and solve a problem and get paid for it before it's even solved, which is genius.

I've taken that concept applied it here. And this is a radical shift.

Part 3, of our five-part interview with Ari Galper of Unlock The Sales Game.

Topics covered in this episode

* Art of Creating Authenticity: Feedback Not Follow-Up* How to Avoid the Guessing Game & Get Down to The Truth With People

Full Convo https://brianjpombo.com/bjpchats/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM80rh-YEi8

Transcription

Brian: It's really amazing how the simple, subtle ideas that they're based on big principles, though, you're talking about being more authentic about putting more emphasis on finding out the truth from them, versus trying to get your way with them.

But you do that through such subtle methods of slowing down, asking a question at a very key time that you don't want to know the answer to most salespeople want to know the answer to that.

But it's important to know that, it's important to know where they're coming from. So that's, that's just fabulous.

Ari: So the other one is this idea is what I call getting to the truth of people.

Now, what does that mean?

What that means is having them feel comfortable telling you where they stand, so you know exactly where they're at. You're not playing the guessing game anymore.

So I'll take a quick story.

I recently had somebody call my office, they got through my team got to me and the phone rang and I pick it up and I hear this, I hear, Mr. Galper?

I said, Yes.

And I hear, my name is John Johnson, change the name, I'm with XYZ company.

They're big global company, like billion dollar company.

And he says to me, look, we're looking to bring someone in to change our sales culture and our performance, the world has changed, but our team has not changed and from a skill set.

And we'd like to know, first of all, why should we go with you?

Why are you the best and give me your best sales pitch.

He says to me of all people in the world, so I took a deep breath. I'm a human being too, their big ass company, right?

I lowered my voice, I got centered my approach. And I said to him this, I said, well, isn't that interesting?

Then I paused, and I said to him, over here at our company, we have a similar process to you, where we ask some questions, gather information to see if we're a good fit. And if we're a good fit, we decide where to go from there.

I said to him, would you be open to that?

It's all said to him.

Then I heard nothing on the phone like dead silence like, oh my God, he's still there. But I feel this breath across the phone, he's breathing, he's like, this air came across, I could feel his shoulders is dropping, you know?

He became a human being again, he got out of his cave and I was armouries he was carrying. He lowers his voice and says to me, okay, sure, what kind of questions you have for me.

Next thing I know within five minutes we're having a nice conversation human to human and a dialogue to discover, one he's not a decision maker, two he has no budget and three he just curious as to what I do.

So if you want for some videos at my website, I hung up the phone.

Now what did my process just saved me months of?

Brian: Chasing a ghost.

Ari: Stress,

Part 2, of our five-part interview with Ari Galper of Unlock The Sales Game.

Topics covered in this episode

* Building Trust to Create an Open, Comfortable Sales Environment* Why Most Sales Are Lost at the Beginning of the Process, Not at the End* Why Sales is so Much More Than Just a “Numbers Game”* 1 The Power of Trust-Based Languaging* Never “Chase Ghosts” Again* How to Remove the Pressure from a Sales Call

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toDxvWynhmg

Full Convo https://brianjpombo.com/bjpchats/

Transcription

Brian: Wow. So you talked about running into that brick wall of, you know, just seeing reality for what it was.

How did you get from that point, to figuring all this out, how did you come across that?

Ari: Actually that was my trial and error right there. I had enough. I was like, I'm done with this, I'm not gonna treat myself like this ever again.

I felt asthought I was mentally abused. I felt like disgusted.

I quit my job and I said to myself, enough is enough.

If this has happened to me right now, it's probably happened to 1,000s of people all over the world, millions of people who don't even recognize they're being treated this way.

And I literally sat down and came up with my approach that basically became a bomb in the industry and revolutionize everything, and really helped people see the truth.

That's why I created my, Unlocking Game System, which we could talk about today and share with you insights and ideas and help people who are also experiencing this every single day losing tons of money, because they don't know any other way of doing it.

Brian: So tell us more about, Unlocking The Game.

Ari: Sure, there's sort of like three core principles behind the system.

And I want to clean out the mental harddrive that your listeners probably have right now, right?

What they believe selling is, so I can pour in some new ideas, because it is a mindset shift.

And the first core sales method is why I'm sure you heard this one before that sales is a numbers game. That's a pretty common myth.

Where the more contacts you make, the more sales you're supposed to make. That's the concept, right?

Because the more people you meet, the more phone calls you made, the more demos you have, will miraculously somehow it'll trigger out more results.

Well, we discover in this day and age now in this economy, it's not about how many contacts you make anymore. It's about how deep you go on each conversation, how good you are trust building, not how good you are, how many contacts you make, or how many meetings you have, or how many demos you have is the opposite of how people view the process.

Number two, is kind of a big one that the sale is lost at the end of the process.

I'm sure you've had deals pending before. Where it all looked good, all positive and at the end it just like, fell through, right?

Brian: Yeah.

Ari: So we discovered in our research that the sale is not lost anymore at the end of the process, it's now lost at the beginning of the process, even at hello.

I'll prove it to you right now come and find a way, if someone calls your office tomorrow morning, you pick up the phone and you hear, hi, my name is, I'm with, we are,

Our five-part interview with Ari Galper of Unlock The Sales Game begins.

Topics covered in this episode

* From a Done Deal, to a Day I'll Never Forget* Unlock The Game: A Whole New Approach to Sales

Full Convo https://brianjpombo.com/bjpchats/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHl-rU7vVbc

Transcription

Brian: Ari Galper is the world's number one authority on trust-based selling and has been featured on CEO Magazine, Forbes, Inc Magazine, Sky News and the Australian Financial Review.

As trust becomes the most important currency in the new economy, the act of selling is a dehumanizing process with endless chasing, has been completely reinvented and anchored in the timeless values of integrity, and trust, through trust based selling.

In his best selling book, Unlocked The Sales Game, Ari describes his revolutionary sales approach based on getting to the truth, and why having a mindset of focusing on deep trust, instead of the sale is ironically, 10 times more profitable.

I'm happy to introduce Ari Galper, the world's number one authority on trust based selling.

How's it going Ari?

Ari: Very good, Brian. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Brian: Yeah, Welcome to Brian J. Pombo Live.

Let's just start out, just tell us a little bit more about you and where you come from.

Ari: Sure. So I'm from the US, originally from California. I live in Sydney, Australia right now been here for 20 years actually.

Meet my wife on a dating site 20 years ago. She's from Sydney, met her in Los Angeles, actually met on a dating site back this is pre swiping days. It's just photo and text and email. And then we started dating and came back to Sydney to visit her family got engaged there and then married and we've been here for 20 years now ever since.

Brian: Oh, fabulous.

How did you get into trust-based selling?

What's your background there?

Ari: Prior to all that, I used to be a sales manager at a software company, we launched the first online website data collection tools, like website behavior. It's called Google Analytics now, where you track the stats on website.

Back then we were the first one to come out with something like that, fast growing business internet was kind of taken off. I had 18 people underneath me, sales reps and the large opportunities came across my desk, I was kind of the first one to get those.

There's one leak came across my desk and I call the contact back, you'd recognize them, it was a big company, lots of websites.

I call them, nice guy and he agreed to a demo and a conference call to see our product.

This was such a big opportunity, Brian, that if I close the sale, it would double the revenue of the company in one sale. That's how big it was. So really excited. Everyone's excited.

So they finally came Friday afternoon, four o'clock, never forget it. I was in a conference room with my CEO and the door was closed behind me.

We had one of those long conference tables in front of us in the conference room. And on the table was a speakerphone, the old school ones, you know, the corporate one. It looked like a spaceship.

Brian: I remember them yup.

Ari: Star Trek ones.

I hit the dial-tone,

For more on the Edward Burnays, the man who helped make bacon and eggs for breakfast what it is in America today, checkout the video link below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6HOJAU94Fk

video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxtNDIMPkEU

Transcription

Why do we eat bacon and eggs for breakfast?

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

I've got a great little video, this has already been done out on YouTube, I'm going to connect the link in the description to a great video put on by a gentleman that talks about the background of bacon and eggs and why we eat it for breakfast.

It was not one of these things that was so ubiquitous as it is now it wasn't done all over the place all the time. Until it was marketed that way. It was marketed specifically by a guy who I've spoken about before Edward Bernays, and I'm reading a book about him.

As soon as I'm done with that I'm going to tell you about this book because it's a really great one, but if you find anything out there about Edward Bernays very, very, very interesting person who invented the concept of public relations.

He did invent, you know, the psychology and everything, he discovered a lot of it, he was the nephew of Sigmund Freud. And he used that aura, the concepts of Freud, but also a lot of the mystery behind Freud to market himself.

He used it rather well and got really good at understanding psychology.

So there was a point at which a client needed to sell more bacon and eggs and he developed a plan on how to do it a marketing plan and sold it off to the American people and we've been doing it ever since.

Even though it happened long before most of us were born. I would think most of us, I don't know the exact date, but it was quite a while back when they did this.

We all keep doing things because we've all kept doing things. And most of us don't realize in most cases, there was a person behind it.

There was a reason behind it, accidental or not, there was somebody behind the idea of why we do the things we do.

You have to always remember the power of marketing, you want to find out more details about that story, click on that YouTube link and go and watch it. So it's a good video, it's quick.

But understanding the power of marketing in your business is unending.

When I sit down and I take a look at businesses, I'm a business investor. So when I go in and look at it, one of the main things I'm looking for is marketing being done to its fullest extent, in most cases, it's not.

In most cases, there's always room for improvement when it comes to marketing. And sometimes that's the quickest way to take a business that has all the other pieces in place that has all the other assets.

Now all you got to do is get the message out.

How can we get the message out, that's what marketing is all about. If you can do that, if you can fill in that little gap sometimes that's the difference between a business being very minuscule, and being multi-millions of dollars.

So pay attention to marketing pay attention to these concepts. It makes the difference between you eating a very small white breakfast and your meat-eating a very hearty American breakfast like bacon and egg.

So there you go.

We'll be back tomorrow with more concepts on ways that you can.

Oh those tricky, nasty, greedy salesmen and how they'll have the nerve ask you to buy more.

Brian talks about why we should be all those things and upsell on the regular.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmnsE5AMPz4

Transcription

Why upsell?

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

I want to talk about this concept of upselling. Alright, upselling, if you're not familiar with it, it's the term of the idea of when you sell something, somebody that you offer to sell them something else after they bought.

That's in general, that's how upsell upselling is referred to, and this happens a lot online.

I've known a lot of people that complain and complain and complain about this. There's only one reason why upselling is done so often online. It's very simple. It works, okay.

People don't buy things that they just don't want. If you don't want it, you tend to not buy it, whether it's being up-sold or not, that you're not unless you're just hemorrhaging money, and you're just looking for a place to put it.

Even in that case, I mean, is there anything wrong that someone's offering to take the money off your hands, they're offering you something in exchange for it?

It's not like they're saying, hey, just give me some more money. You know, you want to, you know, they're not saying that an upsell, is you've bought this.

Would you also like this?

How about this?

That's all an upsell is, in, a lot of people can look at it as sleazy or tricky or whatever, there is a mentality that goes along with the process. A person and here's how it's described most of the time is that a person that has bought something has already broken down most resistance to parting with their money.

They're in buying mode, there's a difference between being in buying mode, and be out of buying mode and having to be convinced to go into buying mode, it's like two different parts of the brain.

Once a person's in buying mode, they're more likely to buy the next thing where if you would have started with the, with the second thing first, they may not have gone for it, but because you started them off with one thing, and then said, Well, how about this also and sometimes they tie together.

Well, and sometimes that, you know, hey, you've bought the pool. Now, here's a patio set to go with it, or what have you.

Sometimes they tie together.

Well, sometimes they don't.

But the plain fact of the matter is, if somebody wants it, they're going to buy it anyways.

If you can offer it to them great. Quite oftentimes what happens online, especially with information products, if you're selling an information product online, or some type of digital product, the person isn't necessarily getting everything that they want with that one product.

So why not try and sell them more, the worst thing they can say is no. And people do people turn down upsells all the time.

So often, you will hear if you go and listen to podcasts from some of the largest companies and marketers out there online today. And online is one of the most unique that it's one of the most common places I meant to say common.

One of the most common places that you'll see the upsell done in a very straightforward linear fashion. And one of the things that you hear over and over and over again, is that they don't make money off that first purchase.

How the heck does Hunger Games fit into being a movie about business?

Welp, Brian does his darnedest to tell you in today's vid. Good luck B!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt4DQcYfX-c

Transcription

Business Movies: The Hunger Games Series.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

Today we're going to be talking about the Hunger Games. Now, how do you have the Hunger Games as business movies?

How could you possibly look at them as being business movies?

I'll get into that in a second.

First, I want to apologize, I do have a white tank top on right now because I got home, I got comfortable. I had clothing that was appropriate to wear for our nightly video, and my youngest proceeded to urinate on it.

So that just comes with having young kids and of course, I've got boxes off to the side. This is just pure professionalism tonight, so I'm hoping you're enjoying yourself.

Let's talk about The Hunger Games.

I'm not sure if you've seen these movies yet or not give you just an I'm not gonna know spoilers, give you an idea. These are dystopian movies, they are based in the distant future, in a situation where people are basically being held down by a horrible government that runs everything, keeps everybody into 12 separate districts has a regular annual thinning of the herd, if you will.

Where they team up and have kind of a lottery that picks one young person from each district and has a battle to the death in a sort of Olympics, shall we say?

Roman Colosseum type situation, very brutal, all filmed all put outlive in a very reality TV type, you know, survivor type idea.

And it's very clever on its basis. These were a series of books, these were three books that got put into four movies, and the concepts are interesting.

The political ramifications get really interesting, especially toward the end of the series. But I went back with my wife and rewatch these and I saw a whole nother level that for some reason, for the most part, escaped me the first time watching it.

These movies are not as much about a dystopian future as they are very much about marketing and communication. And you can learn so much about how to communicate and market better with your audience based on these movies.

Now, starting at the very first movie, I'm just going to give you the basis is the main character gets pulled into the situation to where she is one of the contenders.

Throughout the whole thing, she is finding ways to be able to win the audience to her and also be able to play those who were designing the game against itself and trying to pull the whole thing down on itself, while also coming off in a way that's different than would naturally be seen.

She's trying to project a very clear image. It's the same thing that everybody does with their business or should be doing with their business.

If you own a business, the whole idea is that you're trying to project a certain image out there, you're trying to get a certain idea of what you are and what you're not. And hopefully being able to get out the what you are trying to be known, white and trusted.

This is the process that Katniss Everdeen, the main character goes through in the first movie, and it compounds with each additional movie, it isn't just this subtle little undertone, it might be a little bit in the very first movie, by the third and fourth movie,

Thoughts on why people buy stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmj2z3Uq9Rg

Transcription

Want versus Need.

I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

I wanted to talk with you tonight about the concept of want versus need in terms of the customer relationship. So if you are a business owner, if you're an executive, if you're one of the people in charge of developing products and services of the company that you work at, this is something you got to wrap your mind around.

And it's tough, it's a really tough conversation to have because it has so much to do with semantics. The meaning of these two words is so broad in English, that it's difficult to have this conversation, because what does want versus need actually mean?

What is a want?

What is a need?

Can you somewhat come to a conclusion about it?

Because I've even heard Gary Bencivenga say that it's a semantic argument that we shouldn't get into. But I think it's important to understand the concept.

Don't get hung up on the words, the words you can mean want. When you're saying need and you can mean need. When you're saying one, that's the problem with it.

But they're very subjective and relative to whatever it is that you're talking about.

But let's go into that, shall we?

So are you selling a product or service that people need or that they want?

Now they may want it but not need it or they may need it and not wanted.

What situation do you want more is to see how it gets confusing.

So let's take an example. Let's say what people really want are hot dogs. But what you're selling is broccoli. Now they may need I'm not going to get into the vegetable versus meat conversation here.

But let's say that broccoli has the vitamins and so forth, that people in general, are lacking. And just for the sake of argument, we're just using this as an example. I'm not going to get into actual nutrition, okay, we're just saying you say broccoli is that thing that has what people need.

But what people really want are hot dogs.

Now you can try to sell them broccoli, but you're going to have an uphill battle because you're selling them what they need, not what they want. Where if you sell them hot dogs, you're selling them what they want, it's gonna be easier.

Do you see the difference?

So that's the first step, the first step is just to understand the fundamental difference, but that it doesn't end there. Because there are multiple things that you can do with this, let's say we're only dealing with this binary argument.

I say sell them the hotdogs include this broccoli on the side. Now you have a chance of them actually getting what they need while also getting what they want.

It's nearly impossible to sell people what they need if they don't want it.

But here's another thing. Let's say people really did, you're going through a period of time where people really do want broccoli, maybe there's a shortage or whatever.

Maybe Oprah or somebody famous came out and talked about the wonders of broccoli and how they're able to lose weight by eating only broccoli or whatever. All of a sudden, broccoli's demand comes up.

People want broccoli, people also turns out they need the broccoli.

Brian talks about why he's changed his title to calling himself a "Business Investor."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwm7Axfd3JU

Transcription

Brian J. Pombo, Business Investor.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

Is there anything more pretentious than somebody's speaking in the third person, titling their own podcast after themselves, introducing themselves by name, having a thing come up on the screen with their name, and then titling a podcast episode on them?

I don't know if anything's more pretentious, but we're there. We're at that point.

I wanted to talk about an experience and sometimes I just have a story. Sometimes I just have something that I want to, I want to pin in time and this is one of those moments in my life.

So I had a friend the other day, go through and outline kind of where he had been in life professionally. And at the same time, he was really pointing to where I had been in life and with the different phases that my business has taken.

I have a video out there that's relatively popular on YouTube in terms relative to my other videos, I don't do great on YouTube, but I have one talking about five, I think it's, 5 Excruciating Steps to Becoming a Business Strategist.

It was really the process I took and that I haven't changed all that dynamically from day one, in terms of what I do, but how I describe what I do, has dramatically changed how people see me and how I discuss what I do, and how the relationship happens with me and my clients, partners and so forth.

Really, for the last 10 years or so, I have been primarily come in as a strategist.

But here's what my friend pointed out. Even though I'm coming in as a strategist, the situations that have always worked out the best with me and my clients are when they saw me less as a consultant that they were hiring, and more as a business partner, or, as a co-investor in the business.

In some cases, I've looked at purchasing businesses I've looked at, or purchasing pieces of business or doing specific areas of the business for long-term investment, versus just a straight, you know, here's your paycheck for this period of time.

Those are the situations that have always turned out best is when I come in, really on equal standing with the business owner and there's a mutual respect there.

This is one of the main reasons why I started doing podcasts, wrote my book, 9 Ways to Amazon-Proof Your Business, which you can get a free copy at AmazonProofBook.com.

If you're interested in that or finding out more about me and my philosophy, it's a book that can help you in your business, especially if you're a business owner or executive that's looking to become competition-proof.

By doing those things, it was a chance to get to know, demonstrate what I do, and to offer a different way of looking at things to a business owner and kind of start the relationship before I even meet them.

It's worked out really well I've really enjoyed it. But it's like my friend said you're more of an investor than a consultant if you really look at it properly. In most cases, if they're treating you as an investor coming in, you'll be able to help them more.

And I had to sleep on it. I looked at it a little bit I spoke about it with my wife. I spoke about it with pretty much my business partner, Sean Douglas, the producer of the podcasts, second in command here at BrianJPombo.com.

A look back at the defensive dominance of Dikembe Mutombo and how he used the finger wag to intimidate his opponents to think twice before attacking the rim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RRohLvr3HQ

Transcription

Dikembe Mutombo and the power of the finger.

Hi I'm Brian Pombo, welcome back to Brian J. Pombo Live.

I just do this, I left these books sideways, this is going to drive so many of those OCD people nuts. So I'm going to put them up for you real quick. You can imagine all the empty books on the other side, so they'll drag an appraiser and there they go. They're just jumping off the shelf.

I want to tell you a quick story about the Dikembe Mutombo. One of those situations that I haven't thought about in years…and there they go, they're just coming out, the whole bookshelf is gonna come out in a second here is perfect.

So we were I was having a conversation with my friend Brad. And he brought this up, he said, you want to do a video about that?

I haven't thought about that in years and I went back and looked at it. And I thought about the geniuses of the situation. So here's this guy from Congo, gets into the league in the early 90s. The 1990s gets into the NBA, okay, his job is to block and he concerns himself, he is going to be one of the greatest blockers of all time, he is going to block and keep the other team from scoring.

This is for those of you who aren't absolute raving basketball fans, those of you who are going to think this sounds childish the way I'm describing it, but I got to play to the whole crowd here.

So his whole thing is, is to play this up and as he's going about doing this, he comes up with this thing where people try to score on him, he blocks him. And then he goes, No, no, no like this. And it becomes this huge thing. It becomes this taunt, the simplest thing in the world.

It isn't anything major, except that it drives people bonkers. It's a simple little taunt when he's done his job. He's kind of tossing it back on them. He wasn't hurting anybody.

But it drove the league insane, they started fining him for it and trying to get it outlawed throughout the entire league. The commissioner of the NBA kept calling him up and saying please don't do this anymore.

And he was getting so much attention from it. It's the one thing he's known for the most that he's a Hall of Famer. But this is this one little move with his finger is the thing that any interview you see they bring it up everything.

It's been copied not only throughout the NBA.

Okay, so we played until I think in 2009 he it was copied not only throughout the NBA, it's been copied throughout all sorts of people doing this.

And using it as a simple little top taunt and going No, no, no, no, no, no. It's so hilarious that something so simple can drive people so crazy. So how does this tie into business?

How does this tie into everything that we normally talk about? Well, if you look at our last handful of videos, the last two days, we were talking about the Hegelian dialectic, okay.

And how when you do something to get a reaction, then what ends up is something in your favor, no matter what, as long as there is an emotional reaction and there was clearly he absolutely drove people bonkers by moving his finger back and forth.

Just something that simple.

That it's not even what we'd call trash talking like we talked about yesterday. He didn't have to say anything. He would oftentimes do No,