Bootstrapping a business is like getting a plane to lift off the ground. But what do you do once the plane is in the air?

Dave Giunta and Justin Jackson recorded a recent phone call about maintaining motivation after the initial startup phase. How does founder energy shift once you've achieved your early goals? Dave prods Justin to find new sources of motivation – whether through mentoring junior team members, connecting with customers in fresh ways, or knowing when it's time to explore new horizons.

They also discuss why Dave left Home Chef (after 8 years) and what he's doing next.

Links:

• Follow Dave on Bluesky
• Connect with Dave on LinkedIn
• Follow Justin on Bluesky

Have feedback on this episode?

• 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​
• 🦋 Reply on Bluesky

Timestamps:

• 00:00:17 - Giuuuuuunta
• 00:01:15 - Chatting in Guatemala: maintaining motivation, remote work, career transitions
• 00:02:12 - Motivation in early vs late stage startups
• 00:06:00 - Challenges with maintaining motivation once the business is established
• 00:15:35 - Working with different team member motivations
• 00:26:42 - Importance of understanding individual team members
• 00:29:20 - Remote work advantages and challenges
• 00:35:35 - Working with junior team members and mentorship
• 00:54:00 - Why Dave left Home Chef after 8+ years
• 00:57:00 - Discussion of career transitions and giving yourself space to explore
• 01:02:20 - Future plans and exploration after leaving long-term role

Thanks to our monthly supporters

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How do founders of small bootstrapped companies hire new employees?

Adam Wathan got over 1600 people who applied for two new roles at Tailwind Labs (a small team of six people). They ended up hiring two people, but neither of them actually applied. This wasn't how Adam expected (or hoped) this process would go. There were lots of surprising takeaways and lessons learned from the whole experience.

Links:

• Hackers Inc podcast
• Tailwind job opening announcement
• Design Engineer job posting
• Staff Software Engineer job posting
• Reddit: 11 months of job searching visualized

Have feedback on this episode?

• 👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​
• 🐦 Reply on Twitter

Timestamps:

• (03:40) - What's the size of Transistor and when did you last hire?

Thanks to our monthly supporters

Want to start a podcast on Transistor? Justin has a special coupon for you: get 15% off your first year of hosting: transistor.fm/justin

A panel discussion on 37signals' first ONCE product, the launch of Campfire ("pay for it once, install it, and run it on your own server"). Ian Landsman, Tyler Tringas, and Justin Jackson share what they expected to happen before the launch, what did happen, and what it means for indie hackers and bootstrappers who want to launch SaaS companies. Is this the end of SaaS?

Links:

• Once landing page
• Campfire sales page
• DHH's tweet: "ONCE/Campfire hasn't even been for sale for a week, but we've already sold more than quarter of a million dollars."
• Tyler Tringas's video

I want to hear your thoughts:

If you listen to the episode, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts:

• Can you think of a low-price, pay-once, on-prem software product that's succeeded? (The only one I could think of was ​Statamic CMS​)
• Do you think a different Once product might have made more sales? What kinds of products do you think might work?
• Did you buy Campfire? What did you buy it for? Are you using it as a chat tool for your company?
• Other thoughts on our discussion.

👉 ​Leave a voicemail here​

🐦 Reply on Twitter

Timestamps:

• (00:00:00) - "I appreciate that 37signals exists."
• (00:01:58) - 37signals' influence in the bootstrapped startup space
• (00:03:58) - What did we expect from the Campfire/Once launch?
• (00:06:23) - DHH's tweet on Campfire sales – is that what we expected?
• (00:09:49) - The Once model, philosophy, and Campfire's history
• (00:17:21) - Misconceptions about what IT Managers want
• (00:19:49) - How Campfire was marketed and positioned
• (00:26:01) - Basecamp's PR, virality, and audience 
• (00:28:29) - Can you do customer research to validate demand?
• (00:32:01) - The volume of sales as a success metric
• (00:33:33) - The Potential for Campfire's expansion
• (00:37:37) - Distribution opportunities with hosting providers
• 00:39:31) - The intuition behind HEY Email's success
• (00:43:42) - The Value of an Audience and Customer Overlap
• (00:45:12) - The Compounding Advantage of Longevity
• (00:49:54) - Scorecard

Thanks to our monthly supporters

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
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Fast Company called Acquired "the #1 tech podcast sensation." I've been a huge fan of the show for years. So, I was surprised when they contacted me and wanted to switch to Transistor for podcast hosting!

Since switching, they've had a breakout year. Their clips started showing up everywhere on my social media feed; they had chart-topping episodes on Nintendo, Nike, and Costco, and they interviewed the CEOs of NVIDIA, Uber, and Charlie Munger. 

And this was the year that Ben Gilbert and David Rosenthal (the co-hosts) both went full-time on the podcast. Podcasting is now their job.

With all of that activity, I thought Build your SaaS listeners would be interested in hearing my interview with David about their entire story:

• How they got started, how they built momentum over time,
• how they were able to double their audience every single year since 2015, 
• And how that momentum ended up Attracting an incredibly valuable audience that they've now monetized through sponsorships. 

This interview has so much that podcasters, creators, and indie entrepreneurs will find super helpful and inspirational.

🔥 Key moments:

• (0:00:00) – A breakout year for Acquired
• (0:01:45) – What is the Acquired podcast about?
• (0:02:40) – How the Acquired podcast got started (origin story)
• (0:07:23) – How Ben and David's co-hosting relationship works
• (0:09:00) – The 3 big goals that made them want to start Acquired
• (0:11:38) – How did listeners respond to the first episodes?
• (0:14:55) – The best reason to start a podcast
• (0:15:30) – The secret to how Acquired attracts new listeners
• (0:18:13) – How they got featured in Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Pocket Casts, and Spotify
• (0:24:18) – How they got their first podcast sponsors (and why it wasn't about making money)
• (0:27:58) – Why they give their sponsors a white glove, 11-star experience
• (0:34:13) – How to get more word-of-mouth referrals for your podcast
• (0:37:00) – Acquired's unconventional approach to podcast ads
• (0:41:54) – How the Acquired podcast's growth machine works
• (0:48:05) – Why their NVIDIA podcast episode went viral
• (0:50:48) – Why they switched from Libsyn to Transistor for podcast hosting
• (0:57:18) – The rise of the "independent, boutique podcaster."
• (1:02:27) – "The future of podcasting doesn't belong to Gimlet, NYT, NPR..."
• (1:06:22) – David Rosenthal's advice to aspiring podcasters

Thanks to our monthly supporters

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

The whole team is on the show! Jon, Helen, Jason, Josh, and Justin are on the mics to discuss our recent team retreat to Nashville, Tennessee. If you're wondering what a retreat looks like for a remote team, you'll get a lot out of this episode. We also reveal some of our exploits in Music City:

Highlights

• (00:10) - Welcome

Links:

• Photos from our trip to Nashville. 
• PhotoWalk Nashville service.
• SurfOffice Location Finder: "Discover the optimal location to meet with your remote team. Results are sorted by average travel time per person, number of stopovers, and overall price."
• How to plan a team retreat: Planning a retreat can be a daunting task, so we wanted to share our learnings in the hopes that it’ll be helpful for other remote teams out there.

Takeaways:

• The city you choose for your retreat will significantly influence the team's productivity and leisure activities.
• Be intentional and set aside time for planning and product discussions.
• A retreat is a great time for a remote team to celebrate milestones and achievements.
• Have a balance between work activities and fun activities.
• Simple activities like games or cards can be as fulfilling as fancy events.

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
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Justin catches up with his old internet friend Paul Jarvis. Today, Paul co-founded Fathom Analytics with Jack Ellis: a simple alternative to Google Analytics. Paul is also the author of the book "Company of One," which has influenced a whole generation of indie entrepreneurs (and has been reviewed by Cal Newport, Chris Guillebeau, Ben Chestnut, Tiago Forte, and more). Previously, Justin and Paul did a weekly mastermind, where they supported and encouraged each other around our indie businesses. They decided to do a catch-up call and recorded it so you could listen in. 👍

Highlights:

• (00:10) - Intro

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• Fathom Analytics (get $10 off)
• Book: Company of One
• Article: How to Start a Mastermind
• Wayback Machine: Mint Analytics
• Article: Why we moved from courses to SaaS
• Self-Publishing Hangout: Paul Jarvis, Nathan Barry, Sacha Greif, Justin Jackson

Tim reached out after the Aaron Francis episode: "I wanted to pitch you on the idea of coming on the podcast and sharing my journey of building side projects for the last decade while raising a family. I can also share the guardrails I put in place before finally going full-time on T.LY."

Highlights:

• (00:12) - Welcome

• Tim's startup: T.LY
• Tim's Twitter
• Tim's blog: tools for marketers

Thanks to our monthly supporters

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
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This week Jon and Justin are joined by Marcella Chamorro. Previously, she worked in startup marketing but has recently transitioned to coaching founders and teams. We discussed how startup founders and their team members can realize their full potential.

Here are some highlights:

• (00:24) - Introducing Marcella

Links:

• Subscribe to Marcella's newsletter
• Marcella’s coaching website
• Check out Marcella's articles
• Marcella on LinkedIn
• Marcella on Twitter

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

In this podcast episode, Michele Hansen (Geocodio) gives us an update on Section 174 and provides her take on "bootstrapping with kids."

Michele explains you can be a part of the Small Software Business Alliance, and fight Section 174. If you're in the USA, please contact Congress!

In the second half of the episode, Justin and Michele talk about the challenges of balancing starting a business while you have young kids. For more on this topic, check out the last episode with Aaron Francis.

For more context on Section 174, check out our previous episode with Michele.

• (00:12) - Welcome

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In this episode, Justin speaks with Aaron Francis about being a new parent and trying to bootstrap a startup. Aaron argued the other side of Justin's tweet thread: "Wait until your kids are older to start a company." Aaron is well-positioned to talk about this because he has twins and is also bootstrapping Hammerstone with his co-founder Colleen. The whole conversation is a nuanced take on the topic and full of important insights, especially on:

• the risks involved (especially if you're not working a full-time job)
• the kind of foundation (mentally, financially, emotionally, relationally) you need to be able to take the risk

Highlights from this episode:

• (00:12) - Welcome Aaron

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
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