It’s the buzzword combo every CMO wants to crack, but few actually have.

Recorded live at the Brand Advocacy Summit: New York, this chat dives deep into what it really means to blend culture & performance – with two of the sharpest minds in brand today.

Ana Andjelic (Global Chief Brand Officer @ Esprit) and Nathan Jun Poekert (Brand Strategist & CMO Advisor) bring radically different lenses to one big challenge: how do you grow a brand that actually means something and performs?

This is a no-fluff, all-strategy conversation.

Covering:

🧠 Why most marketing is stuck in reactive chaos

⭐️ What the best brands are doing differently

📊 The missing metric: cultural impact as a KPI (& how to track it across teams)

📉 Why influencer marketing fails when measured like performance media

🎯 The rise of the "social franchise”

🧩 How to structure teams that don’t kill creativity or speed in the name of metrics

If you're a brand, a marketer, or a leader trying to build for the next decade – not just the next quarter – then tune in.

Chapters

00:00 – Welcome to Culture x Performance (Live from NYC)

01:30 – Marketing in Chaos: What’s Really Going On

04:10 – The Story vs. The Dashboard

06:25 – Why Brand & Performance Still Don’t Work Together

08:00 – Measuring Cultural Impact: A New Index

10:15 – The Age Problem in Media Optimisation

14:30 – Forget Engagement Rates. Track This Instead.

20:40 – Virality, Creators & Brand Control

22:10 – The Social Franchise Model Explained

26:20 – Brand Safety vs. Subculture: The Trade-Off

31:45 – Why Paid & Organic Must Sit Together

36:35 – From Close Friends to Culture Clubs

39:15 – How Stanley Won Facebook Moms

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

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Connect with Ana & Nathan:

On Ana’s LinkedIn

On Nathan’s LinkedIn

TikTok’s not slowing down. Reddit’s rising. Creators are turning into strategists. And brands? They’re either adapting – or falling behind.

Recorded live in New York at the Brand Advocacy Summit, this special episode of Building Brand Advocacy throws six sharp minds into a game show-style debate (hosted by Verity) on what’s actually next in culture, social, and the creator economy.

From red flags to green flags, beige flags to bold predictions for the year ahead; this chat doesn’t hold back. 

Hear from:

— Madisen Theobald (Global Director of Social Creative @ M.A.C Cosmetics)

— McKinley Hart (Director of Social Media @ SoulCycle)

— Gabriel Gomez (Head of Social & Community @ MCoBeauty)

— James Denman (Brand Strategy & Marketing Expert)

— Brandon Smithwrick (Creator, Advisor & Content Strategist)

— Maksim Tokarev (Senior Social Media Manager @ Loop Earplugs)

For their hottest takes on why…

🧠 AI-generated UGC could get banned

🧵 Threads, Reddit & Broadcast Channels are in for discovery

📉 YouTube Shorts might not be worth the big bucks (yet)

🔑 Intimacy is the new influence & the DMs are where it’s happening

… and much more.

If your brand is still playing by the 2020 rulebook, stop. Listen. Learn.

Chapters:

00:00 – Kicking Off

01:22 – Hot Takes Begin: Predictions for 2026

07:34 – Brand Flags: Green, Red, or Beige?

23:03 – Watch, Wait, or Walk: What Brands Should Act On, Pause, or Ditch

35:25 – Social SEO & AI Content: Future-Proofing Your Brand

38:23 – AI Content Ethics: Where Brands Go Wrong

40:45 – Closing Out & Audience Questions

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

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Connect with the Hot Takers:

On Madisen’s LinkedIn

On McKinley’s LinkedIn

On Gabe’s LinkedIn

On James’ LinkedIn

On Brandon’s LinkedIn

On Maksim’s LinkedIn

Most brands are looking at the wrong data. 

Worse still? You don’t know what to do with it.

This week, Verity sits down with Jazmin Griffith (Social Strategist, Content Creator, and Founder @ Social Listening Studio, queloque?). Jazmin pulls back the curtain on what real listening looks like today – and why it’s about far more than sentiment & mentions.

From decoding niche communities to spotting Reddit-born Super Bowl ideas, Jazmin reveals how brands can shift from ‘monitoring’ to meaningful intelligence. If you’ve ever asked, "what do we actually do with this data?", this chat delivers your answers, fast.

Listen to learn how to:

• Use The 5 Cs to Guide Listening: Jazmin’s framework covers Content, Culture, Community, Creators, and Channels; and shows how to unlock insights across all of them.

• Get Past Vanity Metrics: Surface-level engagement doesn’t tell the whole story. Hear how to uncover what’s really working.

• Spot What Creators Aren’t Saying: Jazmin explains how the most valuable signals are often hidden in broadcast channels, DMs, Substacks, and Slack groups.

• Build Listener-Led Briefs: Why reactive brands are losing, and what it takes to create culturally relevant, high-performing content today.

• Think Beyond the Grid: Why Threads, Reddit, and even Substack might be the whitespace you’re overlooking – and how to know if it’s time to pivot your channel strategy.

This one’s sharp, strategic, and packed with takeaways.If you’re in social or strategy, do not skip it.

Chapters

00:00 – You Think You're Listening. You're Not.

02:04 – The Reddit Insight That Sparked a Super Bowl Ad

07:46 – Why Most Social Teams Still Get This Wrong

12:35 – The 5 Cs That Should Shape Every Strategy

18:00 – What Creators Know That Brands Miss

22:00 – Listener-Led Briefs > Brand-First Briefs

27:56 – Culture Is Not Your Playground

30:02 – Community Isn’t Comments

36:17 – Where Your Brand Should Actually Show Up

41:00 – 3 Signals Smart Marketers Are Already Tracking

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

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Connect with Jazmin:

On LinkedIn | On Instagram | On TikTok

On queloque?’s Website

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What does a decade of building Brand Advocacy look like in practice?

Back in May, Paul sat down with Luke Klein (Senior Director of Marketing Strategy & Growth @ Aerie) to unpack one of fashion’s longest-running movements: #AerieREAL.

The campaign started in 2014 with a bold commitment: no more retouching. But it was more than a moment; it was a cultural stance. In the 10 years since, Aerie has evolved that stance into a living, breathing ‘brandformance’ strategy that continues to drive relevance & results.

Luke shares how Aerie stays intuitive to their customer (not just reactive), balances brand consistency with performance-first cultural agility, and designs a creator strategy that feels genuinely co-owned. 

If you’re looking for smart ways to evolve a brand, this episode is yours.

You’ll learn:

• Why Brands Need a Mirror, Not a Magnet – Aerie doesn’t try to manufacture hype. They reflect real conversations their customers are already having; and that’s what earns trust.

• The Bow Tie vs The Funnel – A customer journey model that actually reflects how people buy and Advocate today.

• Why Brand Is Performance (& Vice Versa) – Luke shares why separating the two is outdated, and how Aerie uses one strategy to drive both impact and immediacy.

• How Culture-Driven Content Fuels Strategy – From “Coastal Grandma” to subculture playbooks, Luke breaks down how Aerie turns social listening into scalable strategy.

• Why Influencers Should Translate, Not Recite – Scripts are dead. Aerie’s creator strategy starts with values, then lets partners lead with their own voice.

• The Underrated Power of Store Associates – When you empower employees to show up authentically, they become some of your best Advocates.

Whether you’re brand-side, agency-side, or founder-led – if you’re serious about scaling with Advocacy, this is one way to do it. 

Chapters:

00:00 – Why #AerieREAL Was Never Just a Campaign

02:50 – Evolving the Movement for Gen Z in 2025

08:45 – How Aerie Turns Listening Into Strategy

10:30 – From SEO to Trend Spotting: The Content Nucleus Model

13:00 – Subcultures, Micro-Trends & Translating the Brand

14:00 – Scripts Are Dead: Let Creators Lead With Values

21:00 – Why Brand and Performance Aren’t Separate Anymore

23:00 – The Bow Tie vs The Funnel (and What Actually Works)

26:00 – Segmenting Advocates Beyond Purchase Frequency

30:00 – Store Associates as Advocates: The Untapped Channel

34:00 – The Myth of Message Matching Across Touchpoints

36:30 – Letting the Customer Shape the Brand, Not Just Receive It

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

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Connect with Luke:

On Instagram

On LinkedIn

Not Hot Take: Marketing shouldn’t feel like a meeting.

It should move you.

This week, Verity sits down with Henry Hayes – Head of Marketing @ Passionfruit and the comedic content machine reshaping how brands build attention, internally & externally.

Whether you know Henry from his LinkedIn comedy bits or his unconventional marketing strategies at Passionfruit, this conversation peels back the layers on what today’s brand teams really need to nail.

Think funny’s overdone, or simply isn’t for you? Think again.

Press play to hear:

• Brand vs. Performance? That’s Old News: Henry shares why separating the two is a risk in 2025 and beyond – and what should be done differently.

• Behind the ‘Comedy Content Machine’: From Stan parodies to ‘The Bear for Marketers’, Henry breaks down how he ideates – and why truth always trumps polish.

• Why Passionfruit Doesn’t Spend on Ads: And what their founder said that changed everything.

• How to Unlock Employee Creators: Why leadership’s job is to get out of the way, and let their teams build personal brands that fuel business growth.

• D2C Brands, You’re Still Playing It Too Safe: Henry names names, shares what works, and dissects why brands still treat Instagram like a shop window.

This one’s part tactical teardown, part creative permission slip.

Listen in. Rethink the rulebook. And maybe… be funnier.

Chapters:

00:00 – From Creator to Head of Marketing

05:10 – Building Advocacy Internally

10:20 – Marketing at the Speed of Culture

14:40 – Why Passionfruit Doesn’t Spend on Ads

20:15 – D2C Brands Are Still Playing It Safe

25:55 – Let Employees Create (Then Get Out of the Way)

31:25 – Comedy Is a Marketing Tactic

42:35 – You Are Not the Customer

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

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Connect with Henry:

On LinkedIn

On Instagram

On TikTok

Via Passionfruit’s LinkedIn

Brand budgets? Tighter.

Expectations on creators? Higher.

Welcome to the new era of influencer marketing; where performance matters most, platforms are merging, and brands can’t afford to get it wrong.

Kicking off Season 3, Verity sits down with Lowri Evans – an influencer strategy expert with experience at VIEVE, Coco & Eve, Revive Collagen and more. Fresh from going freelance, Lowri breaks down the real rules of modern creator marketing;  from Spark Ads to affiliate programs, and why relationship-building still outperforms pay-to-play.

Turn this episode on & up to learn how to:

• Merge Performance & Brand Marketing: It’s time to bin the silos. Lowri shares how results and relationships can (and should) work together.

• Get Smart About Affiliate Programs: From ShopMy to real ROI, Lowri explains how the smartest brands are tracking impact without diluting brand.

• Build Real Relationships with Creators: Forget transactional. Learn why taking milestones seriously might be your highest-converting move.

• Use Spark Ads to Supercharge Results: TikTok content that converts? Spark it. Lowri walks through the what, why, and how.

• Turn Customers Into Collaborators: From fans to featured creators, hear how VIEVE and others are turning everyday customers into stars.

If your brand still sends mass gifting with no follow-up, this is your wake-up call. 

Listen for the insight (& influencer receipts) you actually need.

Chapters

00:00 – Welcome to Season 3: Why This Episode Matters

04:00 – Inside the Evolution of Influencer 

07:00 – Relationship-First vs. Pay-to-Play

11:00 – Affiliate Strategy That Actually Drives Sales

15:00 – Spark Ads, TikTok Shop & Performance That Converts

20:00 – Why Brand & Performance Must Talk to Each Other

27:00 – Turning Customers Into Creators

34:00 – Building Real Community Through Real People

39:00 – The Problem With TikTok Shop (& How to Use It Right)

44:00 – Are Nano Creators Your Most Powerful Advocates?

49:00 – What Brands Still Get Wrong About Advocacy

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

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Connect with Lowri:

On LinkedIn

On Instagram

Engineering joy > selling stuff.

It’s really that simple. 

(But how do you do it?)

This week, Verity sits down with Content Creator, Social Strategist, and ‘Coldest Creative’ Founder, Joel Marlinarson. Together, they unpack the intersection where fashion, food, music, and culture collide online – and what smart brands are doing about it.

Joel’s built a platform decoding brand moves for his audience (over on @coldestjoel), while building for brands behind the scenes. He shares what’s working, what’s next, and what most brands are missing entirely.

Turn this on & up to learn how to…

• Brand Like a Musician: From Cowboy Carter to Brat, musicians are leading the experiential game. Joel breaks down why brands should start thinking more like them.

• Win with Small Joys: The "little treat" moment is more than a trend. Discover how food, feeling, and brand identity fuse to create Advocacy-ready experiences.

• Track What Actually Matters: Forget followers. Joel shares why repeat commenters and micro-engagements are the real signal of brand love.

• Build In-Jokes & Icons: Learn how obscure memes, emoji signals, and recurring brand language can create loyalty (and drive people to comment).

• Cast Wider: Gen Z doesn’t have to speak to Gen Z. From retail staff to over-50s creators, Joel shares how unexpected casting builds connection.

• Use EGC The Right Way: From ethics to execution, this is how to make employee content fair, diverse, and seriously effective.

From Loewe’s tomato hot air balloons to finding your own “Juno” moment, this chat covers what makes culture tick – and how brands can keep up.

Chapters

00:00 – Why Music Marketing Works Better Than Brand Campaigns

06:00 – Brat. Cowboy Carter. Juno: What Brands Can Learn

08:00 – Food as Feel-Good Branding

10:00 – In-Jokes, Emojis & Repeat Commenters: Signals of True Community

14:00 – Is Sass Out? Why Ryanair’s TOV Might Be Tired

20:00 – Doing EGC Right (& Fair)

26:00 – Weird But Works: The Best Brand Collabs

30:00 – Silver Economy & The Power of Over-50s Influencers

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

🔗 Apple Podcasts

🔗 Spotify

Connect with Joel:

On TikTok

On Instagram

On LinkedIn

What do you get when you combine razor-sharp humour, social-first instincts, and a refusal to play by the rules?

An equal-parts entertaining, and practical, deep dive into brand building on social today.

This week, Verity sits down with Gabriel Gomez (Head of Social & Community @ MCoBeauty (US), Creator & Speaker) to explore how one of Australia’s most-followed beauty brands is winning the US market. Spoiler alert: it’s by moving fast, listening closely, and making the right kind of noise online.

Turn this episode on and up to learn how to:

• Spot and Scale the Right Cultural Moments, Without 10 Approvals & a Deck: Gabe shares how MCoBeauty gets from idea to action in minutes, thanks to lean teams, shared instincts, and a refusal to overthink the feed.
  

• Build Campaigns with Cross-Functional Input (Without Slowing Things Down): Gabe’s approach flips the usual script: involve people early, keep ideas fluid, and trust that great strategy can come from any level of the org.
  

• Choose Creators Based on Connection, Not Clout: Whether it's scouting emerging talent or inviting creators into the concepting process, Gabe breaks down how MCoBeauty treats creators like consultants, not content machines.
  

• Balance Viral Chaos with Brand Clarity (and Still Forget the Playbook): Social’s a sprint, but that doesn’t mean strategy gets lost. Learn how MCo blends brand consistency with bold, off-script moves that actually land.
  

• Build a Fast-Moving, Emoji-Powered Social Culture that Thrives Under Pressure: From skipping the decks to celebrating team wins with emphasis, Gabe shows how to lead a social team that runs on energy and impact.
  

• Decide What’s a Green Flag (and What’s a Giant Red One): In a rapid-fire game, Gabe shares exactly how he filters pitches, rates brand behaviour, and why he’s definitely deleting your “$50 and a lipstick” offer.
  

Plus: you’ll hear why TikTok is their #1 Advocacy driver, how Gabe spots red-flag creators, and the surprising platform he opens first every day.

His advice is fast, fresh, and unapologetically honest – just like the brands that win on social now.

Chapters

00:00 – Gabe Gomez & the MCoBeauty Mindset

03:00 – Why Dupes, Not Decks, Drive Beauty Culture Now

07:00 – Crashing Trends & Creating Chaos: Moving at the Speed of Social

12:00 – F*** the Playbook: Balancing Strategy with Spontaneity

17:00 – Creators as Consultants: Rethinking Influence & Partnerships

22:00 – The Green Flag / Red Flag Game: What Brands Get Wrong (and Right)

32:00 – Why TikTok’s Driving Advocacy, And Instagram Isn’t

36:00 – The Platform Breakdown: What’s Working, What’s Next

41:00 – How to Really Build Brand Advocacy (It’s Not a Coupon Code)

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

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Connect with Gabe:

On LinkedIn

On MCoBeauty’s Instagram (US)

Can you build Brand Advocacy in punchlines?

John Thornton thinks so. Kind of.

Verity sits down with Surreal's Senior Creative (and ex-Innocent wordsmith) to break down how brand voice becomes a business asset, how humour fuels loyalty, and why you should definitely check your QR codes before a campaign launch.

This isn’t another chat about tone of voice. It’s a behind-the-scenes on…

The truth about "funny" copy that drives action.

What most brands misunderstand about distinctiveness.

The forgotten value of comments, not campaigns.

Why authenticity is less about saying the right thing, and more about knowing your place (and being flexible on your fonts).

John shares the good, the bad, and the copy & collaborations that helped Surreal drive major awareness. Innocent, too. 

Whether you’re a brand builder, copywriter or just here for the laughs, there’s no fluff; just real talk from someone who knows how to make cereal & smoothies go viral.

Turn it up to learn:

• How to Create Copy that Converts, Sans-Corporate Feel: When the tone’s too polished, people scroll past. When it’s too offbeat, they don’t trust you. John shares how to strike the balance – writing copy that’s confident, irreverent, and still converts when it counts.
  

• The One Test John Uses to Decide if a Risky Idea is Actually Risky: If you want to get bold work signed off, use John’s litmus test: “What would the Daily Mail headline be?” If it’s not scandal-worthy, it’s probably just brave. Let’s break down how to push boundaries without blowing up trust, or approval chains.
  

• Why People Love Brands that Hire the “Idiot on Twitter”: It’s not about polish, it’s about presence. John explains why fast, scrappy, weirdly human replies build more loyalty than a year’s worth of branded templates. And why the best moments don’t need strategy decks; just someone funny with a login.
  

• The Difference Between Going Viral and Building Something That Lasts: Viral posts spike and fade. Advocacy sticks around. Together, John & Verity unpack how to turn attention into affinity, using humour and product to build content people choose to share – long after the algorithm moves on.
  

Listen. Laugh a bit. Rethink your brand copy.

Chapters:

03:10 – Meet John Thornton

07:00 – Why Self-Awareness Beats Tone Guidelines

09:10 – Innocent’s Process (and Freedom to Fail)

11:00 – Writing to Stand Out, Not Just Be Funny

12:50 – A Star Wars CV & Other Power Moves

14:10 – The Best Campaigns Are Barely Planned

15:40 – Defending ‘Vanity’ Metrics

16:30 – The Baked Bean Smoothie ft. Heinz

18:50 – Fonts, Risk & The Daily Mail Test

22:20 – Why Surreal Hides Its Humans

29:50 – Product Posts That Actually Get Shared

31:50 – Advocacy Is a Long Game

36:00 – Turning a Fail Into a Fan Moment

39:00 – The LoveHoney Collab Explained

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

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Connect with John:

On John's LinkedIn

On Surreal’s LinkedIn

Via Surreal’s Website 

Is your brand actually building Advocacy – or are you still buying influence?

This week, Verity’s joined by Sedge Beswick; humbly, one of the most sought-after voices in modern marketing. She’s the exited Founder of Seen Connects, Strategic Advisor to multiple brands, a Public Speaker, Mentor, and the original architect behind the ASOS social team.

From why the term ‘community’ is losing meaning, to what TikTok Shop strategies are still missing, Sedge offers a cutting breakdown of where brands get it wrong – and how to build smarter, bolder, more human-first influence strategies.

Expect insights marketers at every level need to hear, on…

• How to Spot (and Support) Your First Advocates – It starts with 10 true believers. Here’s how to find them, involve them, and scale it.

• Why Vanity Metrics Are Killing ROI: Brands still chase follower counts and forget to audit audience fit. Sedge explains the one data check every team should make before a partnership.

• Creator Briefs Need an Overhaul: Trust and autonomy drive results. Learn what a great 2025 brief looks like, and how to adapt for different tiers of creators.

• Performance Isn’t the Enemy of Brand: There’s a new era of collaboration on the cards, right now. Hear how smart teams are reconnecting the full marketing funnel.

• From Run Clubs to Book Clubs: Why IRL community isn’t just a trend, it’s your moat. Sedge explains how brands like New Balance are turning participation into brand equity.

• Inside REFY’s Influence Model: What makes their creator strategy so sticky? From co-founders to customer-led trips, Sedge unpacks the moves that matter.

It’s time to ditch short-term tactics and rethink what lasting brand love really looks like.

Chapters

00:00 – Bloopers, Blunders & Building a Career in Influence

05:40 – Why Influencer Marketing Fails (And How to Fix It)

10:00 – Followers Aren’t Community: What Some Brands Still Don’t Get

12:30 – Brand vs. Performance? Merge It.

15:15 – How ASOS Built a Creator System That Actually Worked

21:30 – The Data You’re Ignoring (TikTok Shop, Instagram & Beyond)

24:10 – Refy, Glossier & the Real Power of Customer-Led Growth

34:00 – New Balance & The Action Plan for Full-Funnel Advocacy

Rate & review Building Brand Advocacy:

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Connect with Sedge:

On LinkedIn