In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss whether or not employees can be encouraged to be “more strategic”. They explore the definition of being strategic, frequently misunderstood expectations, and the challenges of fostering strategic thinking among team members. Gini shares her personal experiences and frustrations from her early career, emphasizing the importance of proper coaching and mentoring.

Chip and Gini conclude that agency owners should define their expectations clearly, consider the individual capabilities of their employees, and re-evaluate their own workload to potentially take on more strategic responsibilities themselves.

The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.

Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.

Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.

Chip Griffin: And Gini, I don’t even remember what we’re talking about today, so I remember that, I remember that you were driving the topic though, so, so, so in the 30 seconds since we end

Gini Dietrich: Segue, we’re going to talk about whether or not employees can be strategic.

Chip Griffin: Ah, there we go. We should also talk about whether hosts can actually pay attention to their own shows. Do I still have any memory left? Apparently not, but we’re just, it just shows how real we are on this podcast because,

Gini Dietrich: but also, to be fair, it was like five minutes ago. Then we had another conversation and now, so I’ll give you a little bit of benefit of it out there.

Chip Griffin: Well, thank you. I I, I do, I do appreciate that. But you know, we’re just, we’re just showing you how real we are on this show because most hosts would say, you know what, we’re gonna rerecord this open so that we don’t look dumb. No, I am, I am pleased to look dumb. Absolutely. I should not pleased, but I, I don’t care if I look dumb.

I mean, it’s, you know, we all are dumb sometimes, and this is one of those times for me, so

Gini Dietrich: I cannot wait for the clip from Jen that says, I am pleased to look dumb. That’s gonna be perfect.

Chip Griffin: You’re welcome. Thank you. The two of you can really enjoy that and I’m sure we will. I’ll see it show up up in my texts at some point.

Gini Dietrich: Yep. And it’ll show up on social media. It’s fine. Sure.

Chip Griffin: There you go. Whatever. I’m fine with that.

Gini Dietrich: Ah, I’m pleased to look dumb.

Chip Griffin: So can employees be strategic?

Gini Dietrich: Maybe?

Chip Griffin: It depends?

Gini Dietrich: Actually, you know, I was thinking about this because, Drew McClellan did a video on it and I watched it and I was like, this is an interesting topic. And I was making the bed the other day and I was thinking about how when I was in my twenties, I used to get really good reviews.

And the only negative thing, or the only thing constructive criticism thing on every review was you need to be more strategic. Which is fine. It was true, but nobody told me what that meant. It just, and, and the reason it kept coming up in my reviews is because I was like, okay, I need to be more strategic, but how do I do that?

And no one would teach me or walk me through it or, you know, try to help in any sense of the fashion. So. When I think about this, I do think employees can be more strategic. I think it’s up to us as the agency owners to define what that means and how to coach them through that. I do think it’s a skill that needs to be coached and mentored and taught and all of those things.

And some people have it and some people don’t. But I do think there, you know, for people like me who are like, okay, I’d love to be more strategic. I don’t wanna have that on my review every quarter. How do I do that? I would’ve loved if somebody had taught me how to do that.

Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, I, I think you’re, you’re spot on here with the, the, this idea that the definition matters.

And, and I, I think oftentimes when I hear an agency owner say, geez, I, I wish I could help my employees be more strategic, to me, they’re really saying one of two things. Which really neither one of which has a whole lot to do with strategy. Yeah. One is, why can’t they just run this account without me?

Why do they need so much handholding? Right? Yep. And the second is, why can’t they do more to generate revenue, either organic growth of existing accounts or come up with ideas for new business that we can get. And so to me, what, whenever I hear that that’s, that’s immediate, well, immediately what I think it’s either one of those two things, neither one of which is necessarily tied to strategy in the purest sense.

Gini Dietrich: Right, right. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And usually it, it’s usually why can’t they help come up with really good ideas for organic growth or why can’t they help in new business, like generate help make rain. And it, it typically is not, they’re not strategic. It’s, and, and I think in our industry, especially the communications industry overall, we tend not to be strategic because we’re so tactically focused, just in general as an industry.

And so understanding what being strategic really means and understanding what you’re actually asking is, I think, key here. And if it’s really, I want them to help me grow the business, that’s a different conversation.

Chip Griffin: Absolutely. And, and you know, a lot of these things are things that you can, you can provide the environment for employees who are already inclined to be strategic, to be more strategic. I think it’s very hard to get someone who is, who is just a pure worker bee tactician to, to, to shift out of that mode. And so you have to understand what you’re working with as a manager. And, and if you’ve got somebody who really, they just, they kind of wanna punch the clock, get things done, they do it well, but they, you know, they, they operate within, you know, clear guardrails.

That’s not the kind of person that you’re gonna generally be able to get to suddenly become strategic, that’s right. If you’ve got someone who’s got maybe some good strategic instincts, you can, you can foster that by mentoring, by coaching, but more importantly, by giving them the space to do it.

Because I think one of the reasons why a lot of employees who are, are able to be strategic, aren’t is because they’re, they don’t have enough time or space to get it done. And, and if you are overloading your team members with day-to-day stuff, they don’t have the room, whether it’s operationally or business development wise.

Yep. To be more strategic. So you’ve got to, to think about are you creating the environment in which they can thrive in that way.

Gini Dietrich: It’s so funny you say that because I have a really, really good friend who runs a company, not an agency. They’re probably about, I’d say 18 to $20 million in revenue. They hired a director of marketing three years ago. And he came to me probably late last year and said, Hey, I’m really having trouble with my marketing person and I don’t know why. Could you help me evaluate her?

Like it is always kind of a like cautionary thing because you don’t want somebody to come in and be like let’s spend some time together so I can evaluate whether or not you’re doing your job right. So, I carefully walked into it and I spent six months with her, probably once a week, like helping her understand what the goals are and trying to like coach her along and everything.

And what it came down to is she’s fantastic if you tell her exactly what to do. She will do it. She will do it on time. She will do a good job. She’ll find the right resources to be able to get it done, but she cannot, she doesn’t have the ability to think beyond that. And so when I went back to him after six months and I said that exact thing, and he was like, well, I need somebody to be strategic.

And I was like, okay, then you need to hire somebody above her who will be that person. And he’s like, I need her to be that person. And so he, we go back and forth and back and forth and finally I was like, dude, like, she just doesn’t have the capability. And I think that goes exactly to your point, that some people have it and some people don’t.

And it’s okay if they don’t because we need the people to do the work too, right? We need people who wouldn’t ask to do something. They do it, they do it well, they, you know, do it on time and all those things. We need those people. It’s a different skillset than somebody who’s strategic.

Chip Griffin: Yeah. And I think anytime we’re thinking about employees and, and how we can, you know, mold them and shape them more to our needs, we need to, to have a reality check.

Over, you know, what we’re asking. If it’s that they don’t have a particular skillset, you can generally train a skillset. If it’s something, if it’s more of a, a way of, of thinking, or something like that, those are much harder. And so, absolutely. You know, one of the things that I’ve always said when I’m trying to hire people is, or coaching people on hiring, is try to find people who are generally good at problem solving and things like that, as opposed to someone who has the specific experience that you’re looking for. Because I, I have a very difficult time teaching someone how to be a problem solver. Sort of the mental process you go through to take a challenge and then figure out what to do with it.

But if you know, let, let’s take, when I used to hire computer programmers. I didn’t really care whether they knew the specific computer program language that I needed them to use. I cared whether they knew the process because all programming languages are the same, generally speaking as far as how you thinking about how you think about them.

It’s just the syntax that is different, right? It’s like if I want, I want someone who’s a good writer. I don’t necessarily need them to writing experience in a particular industry, right? Most of the time, right? Because I can teach them what they need to know for the industry. I can’t teach them in any reasonable way to be a better writer.

Gini Dietrich: Right. That’s right. Yeah, that’s absolutely right. And I, I think, you know, so being honest with yourself about what, what you mean when you say I want somebody to be more strategic and what that looks like. Another really good example I have is that I have a, a good friend who runs an agency and last week she DMed me on Slack and was like, Hey, listen, I’m having trouble with a teammate who says that she wants to be involved in business development, but she’s not getting there. And I was like, I was asking her some questions to kind of try to uncover what was going on and what we came to the realization is that her team member was talking about business development in the way that you and I complain about all the time, where we get these emails that are like, if, if you spend 15 minutes with us, we can schedule 550 conversations with you, with prospects.

Okay. That’s not business development. But they were using the same verbiage. Yep. Meaning totally different things. And this young woman who’s on her team has that experience of working for a digital firm that their job was to generate leads like that. Right. My friend who runs an agency is looking at it the way we look at it from a business development perspective of we really only need three clients, so we probably have to approach 10.

Right prospects. So when it came out of it that, that was the difference in the conversation. She went, ohhh. So it’s, it’s really digging in deep with your team to figure out, maybe you’re using the same language and you’re meaning something different. Or maybe you have expectations and they think they understand what they are, but that it’s, you’re kind of missing the, you’re two ships.

Right passing in the night. So it’s really about understanding what it is that you really mean. Do I need them to be strategic? Do I want them to focus on business development? Do I want them to do, be better in in client meetings? What is it that, I mean when I say be more strategic? And then really dig deep with them because you might be saying the things that you are, and they’re misinterpreting it because they’re, the lens that they’re looking at it through is different than yours.

Chip Griffin: Yeah. And, and this is, I mean, this is important anytime you’re providing feedback to an employee. You need to be as specific as possible, both in terms of what your expectations are and what you want them to really work on. So if I say to somebody, I want you to be more strategic, or I want you to communicate more effectively, or I want you to pay better attention to detail, what does that mean?

Yeah. Be, be specific What? What are the specific things that you think I could or should be doing better or more of, or what have you? And frankly, a lot of the time that’s gonna require you to think about what you actually want from them. That’s right. And what you need from them. But then putting it into words with them, breaks it down into the component parts so that they have something clear that they can work on.

They can say, yeah, that’s just not gonna happen. Like, you know, if, if your idea of being strategic is that you’re making cold calls because you really mean business development, they may just say, yeah, that’s just not, that’s not me.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Right.

Chip Griffin: But if you, if you start breaking them and, and, and it really does, I mean, I think so much of it is just turning the spotlight on yourself and figuring out what you’re trying to get from them.

Because usually when you’re asking for something like that, it means that you’re trying to get something off of your own plate. So what specifically are you trying to get off of your own plate? Because that’s, that’s where you can start to see real progress. It’s where your team doesn’t feel frustrated by these, you know, vague requests that you’re making of them.

And it also helps you to figure out is it really realistic? Right? You know, if this is what I’m asking for. Can I really ask them to do that in with their current workload? Do I need to change their workload to get there? Do I need to change their priorities in some fashion so that it gets done first versus other things that I prioritize less?

Whatever it may be. You need to be crystal clear about that in your own mind and then convey that to the employee.

Gini Dietrich: To this day, I still don’t know what my boss meant when she told me every quarter that I needed to be strategic. ’cause she didn’t, she never outlined that for me. And I asked questions and I tried to get help.

I still, to this day, I have no idea what she meant by that.

Chip Griffin: Well, I mean, clearly you’re, you’re just not very good at strategy, Gini. I mean, you know.

Gini Dietrich: Back then I wasn’t. I am today, but back then I for sure wasn’t,

Chip Griffin: I mean, if only you had like a model or a framework that you could use to guide you.

Gini Dietrich: Demonstrate.

Yeah. Guide, build. Yeah. You know, Chip, I think that we’re gonna start losing listeners because every conversation we have, we give people work to do. We, you actually have to work at this.

Chip Griffin: Well, yeah. Yeah. But I mean, this is not the place to come if you don’t want to do work.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. You have to do work. Yeah. There’s all sorts of things you have to do. I’m really sorry. Understand your financials.

Chip Griffin: But it’s a pretty, it’s a pretty small and simple list and, and so many of them it is, as I think I said on the last episode or maybe the one before that, a lot of them just come back to a couple of key things, a couple of key tools and processes that sort of, all of these other issues either orbit around or can be solved by.

And, so it’s, it’s really not as complicated as it seems. But if you’re, if you are not good at communicating what you need and starting by understanding what you need, you’re never gonna get it, whether it’s strategy or anything else.

Gini Dietrich: Right? That’s right. Yeah. It really is about setting expectations, but also understanding that if the words that you’re using don’t mean the same thing to your team, that has to change too.

But you, and you have to figure that out. Like it took an outside person for my friend to, to go, wait a second, I, I see what’s happening. And she didn’t see the forest for the trees at all. So sometimes you may have to phone in a friend and be like something’s not right here. Can you help me kind of diagnose what’s going on?

I mean, you and I could serve in, in that, that role, but certainly you have friends that are in the industry as well that could serve in that role.

Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, any, anytime you can get a fresh perspective on things, and you’re able to, you know, to, to take that different look at, at how things are being done.

And, and I think bring, particularly bringing in someone from the outside, whether it’s, you know, a friend, a trusted advisor, or an actual consultant, whatever, I, I think those are helpful because a lot of times employees will be more open with those individuals. Yeah. Especially over time. Yeah. And, and will, you know share this is why I’m not able to do this.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah.

Chip Griffin: Because a lot of times it is that, you know, the resources just aren’t there, particularly time. And you know, I think that, you know, while there are a lot of things that employees can and probably should do to be more efficient with the, their expenditure of time, there is still a finite amount of it.

And, and I,

Gini Dietrich: unfortunately, yes.

Chip Griffin: I very rarely see owners or even middle managers who say, yeah, you know, I, I want my team doing less of these things. It’s always more, and, and the less is usually something silly, like I want them to waste less time. Okay, well what does that even mean? So, you know, if you’re, if you’re only gonna be adding things to someone’s plate and you’re never taking anything away, it becomes really hard to get the results that you’re looking for, whether that’s strategic, tactical, operational, internal, administrative, whatever.

Gini Dietrich: I mean, look at your own plate. Do you have the room to be strategic? Do you have the time to do some deep work? Do you have space to be able to think? Probably not. I mean, most of us that run agencies don’t. So if you don’t have the time or the space, they certainly don’t. So you have to kind of figure out how to re-jigger things so that you can get what you need and they can get, get it done for you.

Chip Griffin: Yeah, and that’s a great point. I mean, that it, it, it also is a reminder that if what we’re looking for is our employees to be more strategic, is that really the best solution or should we be trying to get them to take something else off of our plate that’s easier for them to accomplish so that we have that time.

Good point. And space to be strategic. Yep. Because I, I think we will all probably accept that, that in general, agency owners are likely to be more strategic, no matter how you define it than employees. Certainly we all care a whole lot more about the outcome of those strategies than any employee ever does.

Yeah. And so if we can, if we can move less valuable stuff off of our plate and we can fill that strategic role more effectively, that’s often a better solution than trying to force someone who is not inclined to be strategic, isn’t trained to be strategic, doesn’t have the strategic bone in their body, you know, take it on yourself, but just get other stuff off of your plate so you can do that.

Absolutely. So with that, we will get this podcast off of your plate so that you can then move on to being strategic, defining your own goals or, you know, doing whatever other assignments we’ve given you. Yep. On, on this and other episodes. So I will not apologize for giving you more homework. I’m sorry.

Gini Dietrich: Nor will I,

Chip Griffin: I’m, I’m sorry for not being sorry, you know, anyway, but yeah. Alright, on that note, I’m Chip Griffin.

Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich

Chip Griffin: and it depends.