Talking about transgender women and girls in sports has become one of the most polarizing debates in American culture — often used to inflame rather than inform. Pablo Torre has spent years navigating these kinds of conversations at the intersection of sports, politics, and identity. In this episode, he joins Dan for a wide-ranging discussion about how we talk to each other — and who gets left out of the conversation.

We cover:

• Why the transgender sports debate is more about politics than policy

• What it’s like to straddle sports and politics as a commentator

• How to talk to people who aren’t already politically activated

• How the left can surpass the right in messaging

If you’re trying to engage in good faith — in a bad faith media environment — this episode will give you language, clarity, and maybe even a little hope.