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In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, speaks with Michael Lurie, Chief Catalyst at Bayer and expert in leading large-scale transformations.
00:00 Introductions & Context
1:37 The Challenge — Walking Into Bayer
5:07 How the Rollout Began, Using Two Tracks
8:37 The Five Principles of Dynamic Shared Ownership
10:39 Principle 1: Focus on Mission and Outcomes
11:05 Principle 2: Collaborate on a Network of Self-Managing Teams
11:51 Principle 3: Create Value as Entrepreneurial Businesses
13:00 Principle 4: Explore, Execute, and Evolve in Rapid Cycles
13:38 Principle 5: Show Up in Creative Mindset
14:45 The VACC Leadership Model
15:52 Performance Results — The Evidence
19:37 Applying DSO to Manufacturing and The Precision Question
24:12 Overcoming Skepticism and Resistance
32:46 Reimagining Budgeting Towards Dynamic Resource Flow
41:44 Professional Homes — Reimagining Talent and Compensation
49:01 How Strategy Changes in the DSO Model
57:49 Lessons Learned and Surprises on the Journey
1:01:36 Closing
Want to learn more about Rita’s ideas and hear more of her conversations with business leaders and innovators?
Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719
https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU
Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q
Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/
https://x.com/rgmcgrath
https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social
Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram.
https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath
https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/
Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.
https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/
Learn more about Rita, her books and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.
By Rita Gunther-McGrath4.8
44 ratings
In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, speaks with Michael Lurie, Chief Catalyst at Bayer and expert in leading large-scale transformations.
00:00 Introductions & Context
1:37 The Challenge — Walking Into Bayer
5:07 How the Rollout Began, Using Two Tracks
8:37 The Five Principles of Dynamic Shared Ownership
10:39 Principle 1: Focus on Mission and Outcomes
11:05 Principle 2: Collaborate on a Network of Self-Managing Teams
11:51 Principle 3: Create Value as Entrepreneurial Businesses
13:00 Principle 4: Explore, Execute, and Evolve in Rapid Cycles
13:38 Principle 5: Show Up in Creative Mindset
14:45 The VACC Leadership Model
15:52 Performance Results — The Evidence
19:37 Applying DSO to Manufacturing and The Precision Question
24:12 Overcoming Skepticism and Resistance
32:46 Reimagining Budgeting Towards Dynamic Resource Flow
41:44 Professional Homes — Reimagining Talent and Compensation
49:01 How Strategy Changes in the DSO Model
57:49 Lessons Learned and Surprises on the Journey
1:01:36 Closing
Want to learn more about Rita’s ideas and hear more of her conversations with business leaders and innovators?
Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719
https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU
Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q
Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/
https://x.com/rgmcgrath
https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social
Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram.
https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath
https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/
Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.
https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/
Learn more about Rita, her books and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.

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