Thought Sparks

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C Suite strategist, business founder and best selling author, sits down with Bill McGowan, founder and CEO of Clarity Media Group and a  two-time Emmy Award-winning correspondent. Bill’s second book is Speak, Memorably: The Art of Captivating an Audience,written alongside co-author Juliana Silva.  

0:00 Cold Open: The Playing Not to Lose Mentality 

0:23 Welcome & Introducing Bill McGowan 

1:20 From TV News to Communication Coaching 

5:32 The Magnificent Seven: Verbal Devices 

10:00 Creative Labels: Toothbrush Test, Goldilocks & Pottery Barn 

12:14 The Conformity Zone: Why Executives Sound the Same 

15:37 Hooking Your Audience & The Cost of Poor Communication 

20:34 Coaching Skeptical Executives 

24:16 Structuring a Great Speech (No Jokes) 

25:27 Lessons from Stand Up Comedians 

29:38 Novartis Super Bowl Ad & The Power of Levity 

35:55 Making Complex Problems Simple: The Ozone Layer 

37:58 Contextualizing Data for Real People 

40:38 Leaders, Symbolism & Plain Talk 

45:44 Conveying Bad News (BP & Goldman Sachs) 

48:32 Knowing Your Audience & Speech Prep Tips 

52:26 “Being Authentic” Needs Discernment 

54:41 Where to Find Bill & Closing 

Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought sparks/id1546758719 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU 

Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q 

Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ 

https://x.com/rgmcgrath 

https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social 

Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath 

https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ 

Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   

https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ 

Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com. 

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Rick Goings, founder of The Rick Goings Institute for Management and Executive Leadership at Rollins College. Formerly, Rick held several senior executive roles at Avon Products and served as Chairman & CEO of Tupperware Brands.  

0:00 

Introduction 

0:25 

Meet Rick Goings 

1:21 

The Rollins College Institute 

2:58 

Rick's Journey: Navy to Entrepreneur 

6:31 

First Company & Fortunate Pet 

7:56 

Avon and Tupperware 

8:30 

Women: Hiding in Plain Sight 

9:46 

Transforming Tupperware 

12:29 

Empowering Women in Patriarchal Societies 

13:56 

Warrior Training in Indonesia 

17:31 

Leadership as a Craft 

19:59 

The Institute & Rod Adkins 

27:34 

Google's Project Oxygen 

29:33 

The Bruce Springsteen Story 

34:26 

Peer Learning at the Institute 

35:40 

Three Focus Areas: Foresight, Vitality, Civic Leadership 

37:41 

Shareholder vs Stakeholder Value 

41:59 

The Vatican & Stakeholder Value 

43:37 

The Great Transition in Capitalism 

45:27 

"Add Value" – A Daily Mindset 

50:35 

The Future of Business Schools 

52:45 

The Halo Effect & AI Simulations 

58:10 

Forging Leaders 

1:02:10 

Conclusion 

Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU 

Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q 

Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ 

https://x.com/rgmcgrath 

https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social 

Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath 

https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ 

Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   

https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ 

Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com. 

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Beth Gardiner, journalist with bylines in National Geographic, the New York Times, the Guardian, the Washington Post, and Scientific American; and author of the new book Plastic Inc.: The Secret History and Shocking Future of Big Oil's Biggest Bet.  

0:00 

Intro & Welcome 

1:06 

How the Book Idea Came About 

6:50 

The Fossil Fuel Industry's Pivot to Plastic 

10:06 

The History & Growth of Plastic Production 

12:30 

Recycling as a PR Tool 

17:55 

Keep America Beautiful & the Crying Indian 

21:38 

How Plastic Crept Into Our Lives 

25:07 

The Economics of Cheap Plastic 

29:19 

Diane Wilson vs. Formosa Plastics 

35:48 

The Recycling Symbol & Its Misuse 

38:55 

Lawsuits & Corporate Accountability 

44:16 

Fast Fashion & Plastic in Clothing 

46:13 

Cancer Alley & Fence-Line Communities 

50:36 

The Ozone Layer Parallel & Policy Solutions 

54:10 

Extended Producer Responsibility 

57:21 

Closing & Wrap Up 
 
 

Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU 

Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q 

Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ 

https://x.com/rgmcgrath 

https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social 

Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath 

https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ 

Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   

https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ 

Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com. 

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Joe Pine, management advisor and author of the new book The Transformation Economy: Guiding Customers to Achieve Their Aspirations. Joe shares insights into the transition from  the experience economy to the transformation economy, and why customers want change, not stuff.  

0:00 

Intro & Welcome 

0:21 

Meet Joe Pine: The Transformation Economy 

1:28 

Origins of the Experience Economy 

3:02 

The Rise of Coaching & Why Now 

6:27 

The Economic Hierarchy: Commodities to Transformations 

7:00 

From Tangible to Intangible Assets 

8:54 

Understanding What Customers Truly Want 

12:27 

The Four Types of Transformation 

15:02 

The Transformation Framework: Scale & Kind 

17:16 

Rethinking Competitive Advantage 

20:27 

Time Well Saved, Spent & Invested 

22:12 

Friction in Experiences & The Modern Love Column 

25:05 

Generational Shifts in Valuing Experiences 

30:49 

Nudging Companies Toward Customer-Centricity 

33:25 

Disneyland: Making Dad the Hero 

35:06 

Real-World Experience Fails: Hotel & Passport Stories 

39:28 

The Real Purpose of Business: Human Flourishing 

43:22 

The Global Food Economy & Pricing Paradoxes 

47:23 

The Coffee Progression: 5¢ Beans to $8 Latte 

49:16 

Surprises from 30 Years of Research 

52:11 

Paying for Outcomes: Texas State Technical College 

55:43 

AI & The Future of Outcomes-Based Economy 

57:58 

Wrap-Up & Closing 

Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU 

Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q 

Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ 

https://x.com/rgmcgrath 

https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social 

Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath 

https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ 

Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   

https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ 

Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com. 

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Caroline Webb, former McKinsey partner, leadership coach, and economist. Her new book, Leadership Intelligence, which is available on September 8, gives practical strategies for leaders facing 21 everyday management challenges.  

0:00 Welcome to Thought Sparks 

0:24 Meet Caroline Webb 

1:21 Experiential vs. Deliberate Wisdom 

3:04 How the Book Came to Be 

10:27 The Three-Part Structure: How We Think 

12:57 The Brain's Reward System: Competence & Connection 

17:23 The Brain's Threat System & Resilience 

19:58 Absorbing Uncertainty: Know, Be, Do 

26:00 Staying Calm Under Pressure: The ABC Routine 

27:57 The Readiness Reframe: Channeling Anxiety 

29:59 Preparing Before Key Moments 

31:00 The Positive No 

36:51 Fix Flex: The Art of Delegation 

40:17 The Leadership Pipeline & Managing AI Agents 

41:48 Difficult Conversations: Layoffs & Underperformance 

45:08 Compassionate Clarity 

45:36 The Arc of a Coaching Engagement 

50:21 Common Themes in Senior Leaders 

53:56 Loneliness at the Top & Building Networks 

56:09 Wrap-Up & Where to Learn More

Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU 

Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q 

Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ 

https://x.com/rgmcgrath 

https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social 

Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath 

https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ 

Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   

https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ 

Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com. 

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Caroline Stokes, author of AfterShock to 2030: A CEO’s Guide to Reinvention in the Age of AI, Climate, and Societal Collapse, and member of the Thinkers50 Radar Class of 2026.  

0:00 — Cold Open: The Trust Crisis in CEO Leadership 

0:26 — Welcome to Thought Sparks & Introducing Caroline Stokes 

2:10 — The Brian Thompson Assassination: Why It Opens the Book 

6:21 — Why the Book Is Digital-Only & CEO Reading Habits 

8:10 — The Trust Gap: Organizations Making People Sick 

12:20 — LSE Research: Doughnut Economics & Post-Growth Practices 

15:15 — Why "Aftershock": Polyvagal Theory & CEO Behaviors 

19:11 — Carlota Perez: Turning Points in Capitalism 

22:03 — NVIDIA's Fluid, Mission-First Organization Model 

25:55 — Mea Culpa & Tabula Rasa: Reinventing Yourself as a Leader 

31:07 — Radical Listening: The Human-to-Human Approach 

34:39 — The PlayStation Backward Compatibility Story 

36:30 — AI-Enabled Radical Listening & the DOGE Example 

38:21 — NVIDIA's Top Five Things & Stochastic Sampling 

41:01 — Getting Started: Finding Your Mission & Purpose 

45:43 — Corruption, Shareholder Theory & the Need for a Reset 

48:12 — Caroline's Personal Shocks & Living Abroad 

49:53 — Advice for Younger People 

54:26 — Where to Find the Book & Closing Remarks 

Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU 

Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q 

Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ 

https://x.com/rgmcgrath 

https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social 

Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath 

https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ 

Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   

https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ 

Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com. 

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Rebecca Hinds, Head of the Work AI Institute & Director of Thought Leadership  at Glean to discuss her new book Your Best Meeting Ever.  

0:00 Intro & Welcome 

0:13, Meet Rebecca Hinds 

0:58, Rebecca's Journey Into Meeting Research 

3:45, Meetings as Status Symbols & Power Dynamics 

6:36, Meetings as a Product: Design Principles 

7:33, Cutting Meeting Debt: The Meeting Doomsday 

9:52, Return on Time Invested (ROTI) 

13:42, The Four D CEO Test for Meetings 

15:02, Bezos One-Way Door Decisions & Law of Triviality 

18:13, Decision Fatigue & The Importance of Breaks 

20:13, Amazon's Six-Page Memo Practice 

26:05, Using Verbs in Agenda Items 

27:11, Alan Mulally at Ford: Meetings That Drive Action 

31:08, In-Person vs. Hybrid Meetings 

38:51, Ensuring Diverse Perspectives Are Heard 

45:48, AI's Role in Improving Meetings 

47:27, Surprises Since the Book's Publication 

50:14, Meeting Budget & Optimal Meeting Hours 

53:43 Where to Learn More & Closing 

Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU 

Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q 

Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ 

https://x.com/rgmcgrath 

https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social 

Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath 

https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ 

Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   

https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ 

Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com. 

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Rory Sutherland, vice chairman of the Ogilvy & Mather group of companies and expert in behavioral science and creativity.  

Their conversation took place in person at the Ogilvy offices in London.  

0:00 The Marketing Mindset 

0:29 Welcome & Introducing Rory Sutherland 

1:10 Rory's Path into Advertising 

2:11 Direct Marketing & A/B Testing Origins 

3:01 Edwardian Era Newspaper Experiments 

4:18 Testing Creative vs. Price 

7:23 Discovering Behavioral Science 

10:08 Marketing as a Way of Thinking 

11:05 Uber & the Psychology of Innovation 

12:23 Marketing & Innovation: Two Sides of a Coin 

13:45 The Austrian School of Economics 

14:46 The Swiss Watch Industry 

17:21 Public vs. Private Advertising 

18:50 What Are You Really Competing With? (Zippo) 

22:16 Quarter-Inch Holes & Hidden Value 

24:10 Trade-offs in Innovation 

27:27 Austrian Economics & Value Creation 

28:47 Baumol's Cost Disease & Non-Transactional Value 

31:23 Universities as Luxury Goods 

34:32 Ogilvy Adapting to Digital Change 

37:48 The Marketing Mindset for All Businesses 

40:02 Symbolism Matters: NASCAR Tickets & Corporate Perks 

41:47 Risk & Reward in Organizations 

42:54 The BT A/B Test: Channels Affect Purchases 

47:33 Marketing Genius: James Watt's Horsepower 

50:11 Marketing as Value Creation 

51:18 The Citibank Demo: Finding the Real Sell 

53:50 Kano Theory: Delighters & the DoubleTree Cookie 

55:48 Reverse Benchmarking 

58:05 The State of Advertising Today 

59:27 Book Recommendations & Risk Aversion 

1:03:45 Marketing Metrics & Digital Platforms 

Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU 

Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q 

Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ 

https://x.com/rgmcgrath 

https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social 

Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath 

https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ 

Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   

https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ 

Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com. 

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, hosts Kevin Nolan, CEO of GE Appliances, who talks through Haier’s acquisition of GE Appliances, and his advice for leaders facing massive transformations.  

0:00 - Intro: Can you choose between growth and profitability? 
0:27 - Meet Kevin Nolan, CEO of GE Appliances 
1:40 - GE's long history of wanting to divest the appliances division 
2:47 - The Haier acquisition — and the surprise of who bought them 
5:55 - First meetings with Haier: "salad management" and philosophy over business 
8:37 - "We don't plan to learn. We plan to win." — The GE mindset 
10:14 - Culture shock: Haier kept asking, "What do YOU want to do?" 
16:55 - The concept of "leading goals" — goals you don't know how to achieve 
19:25 - Kevin becomes CEO: setting the bold goal of #1 in 5 years (from #5) 
25:12 - Introducing FirstBuild: GE's open, consumer-driven innovation engine 
34:06 - The nugget ice story — and why engineers don't understand customer needs 
39:37 - FirstBuild's secret sauce: it must be self-funding (zero-cost innovation) 
44:40 - From #5 to #1 in 5 years — with no acquisitions and no new people 
48:51 - CEO humility: going to the factory floor unannounced 
59:15 - Final advice: rely on the people closest to the work 

Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU 

Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q 

Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ 

https://x.com/rgmcgrath 

https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social 

Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath 

https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ 

Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   

https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ 

Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com. 

In this week’s Thought Sparks Podcast episode, Rita McGrath, a Columbia University Business School Professor, C-Suite strategist, business founder and best-selling author, sits down with Bill Klepper, Academic Director in Executive Education at Columbia Business School, to celebrate Bill’s retirement and reflect on his expertise in executive learning, strategic leadership and corporate governance. Their conversation took place at Columbia Business School, following a session of Rita McGrath's Executive Education course Leading Strategic Growth and Change.  

00:00 Introduction 
01:03 Meet Bill Klepper 
02:03 The Origin of The CEO's Boss 
06:25 Why Board Governance Matters 
06:58 The Lifeline Exercise 
08:06 Bill's Lifeline: Early Values 
12:29 Path to Public Office 
15:06 The 9/11 Story 
18:31 Learning Styles Framework 
24:08 The Integrative Leadership Model 
30:39 Legacy and Wisdom 
32:38 Strategic Centering 
33:15 Audience Q&A 
38:18 Closing 

Listen to more Thought Sparks Podcast episodes on Apple Podcasts  and Spotify.  

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thought-sparks/id1546758719 

https://open.spotify.com/show/0xmTsYXMgTeielwZ0dGTSU 

Watch Thought Sparks episodes on YouTube.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcyXT8iJkTSciUMe0me3L7Q 

Follow Rita on LinkedIn, Instagram, X and Blue Sky.  

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ritamcgrath/ 

https://x.com/rgmcgrath 

https://bsky.app/profile/rgmcgrath.bsky.social 

Connect with Rita on TikTok and Instagram. 

https://www.tiktok.com/@rgmcgrath 

https://www.instagram.com/ritamcgrath.hub/ 

Sign up for her Thought Sparks Newsletter on Substack.   

https://thoughtsparks.substack.com/ 

Learn more about Rita, her books, and ideas at RitaMcGrath.com.