Celeste Berke [00:00:01]:

Hello. Hello. This is Celeste with Blaise. I'm on the Sales Edge podcast. I'm going to get his name right. Bevilacqua, his last name. Bevilacqua. We met at SaaSter, of all places, and I truly enjoyed my conversation with Blaise.

Celeste Berke [00:00:16]:

We didn't really talk about product. We started getting in deep, and I was taken aback when Blaise told me he is in a sales seat. Well, he can talk about his role, but that he comes up by being a teacher. So with that, please give us a little intro into who you are.

Blaise  [00:00:35]:

Yeah. Thank you, Celeste. It was awesome meeting you a couple weeks back. But, yeah, just by ways of introduction, account executive here at UserGems, but before the whole Sales world in a different life. Right after university, I was in English as a second language teacher over in Korea for 2 years. So that's That's kind of where I dip my toe in the water. And then once I moved back to the states, started the whole BDR life, and the rest is history.

Celeste Berke [00:01:00]:

Wow. What a story. There's, you know, a lot of parallels. I'm sure you can derive from your time being a teacher. Really, it's this process that we're taking people on where we're trying to understand my mother's an educator. Trying to understand their learning style, what's unique about them, English as a second language, and now turning that around and doing that with your buyers, educating them, but also truly listening to them and what their problems are. So, yes, I loved meeting you and the team. We had just chatted prior to the show about, holy crap, user gems is all over LinkedIn.

Celeste Berke [00:01:33]:

Right? A Small but mighty team. I'm loving the content that they're putting out, but really goes in-depth about real world environment and what is happening. So on the show, we like to ask individuals 2 questions. We will start with the 1st question. Please tell us, as it relates to your role and what you're doing. What is your sales

Blaise  [00:01:54]:

edge? Yeah. I think one thing that I've heard from Now customers is that I don't come off throughout the sales process as sales y. It's hard because it's it's like It's not a tangible metric. And I think one thing that has helped, like, shift my mind completely like, when I was in SGR, I was like, book a meeting. Get them on the book. I don't care if it's qualified. Like, I'm still gonna. Fine.

Blaise  [00:02:22]:

And now it's mostly, like, as Josh Braun always says, like, detach. It's way easier said than done, but I think if you truly can get into that mindset, it helps. And then it calms you down too, and it makes people feel comfortable sharing, you know, why why they're in the evaluation phase in the 1st place.

Celeste Berke [00:02:43]:

Sure. Oh, I love that. So I talked with Riley Blasdell in his episode, and he said it's this whole, like, stinky commission breath. Right? Most salespeople are So worried about especially today. We are recording this on the 26th. The 30th is looming. Right? People are looking at What is happening? When are things gonna close? And really detaching from that outcome so they don't come across as as you said. People can sniff that out a mile away.

Celeste Berke [00:03:11]:

When do you think that shift happened for you from BDR to AE to stop talking about Yahoo.

Blaise  [00:03:20]:

Yeah. I think my 1st boss sensed I had this, like, Significant rush of urgency. Like, okay. Come on. Like, the next step in the funnel is business validation. Let's get here. But I'm like, hey. Yeah.

Blaise  [00:03:32]:

Like, understanding the buyer journey, they may not be ready to take that step. And I think that took me, like, a year and a half of a very slow learner to To learn. So, yeah, it was early, thank God, within my career to, like, have this mindset change, and it's it's been helpful.

Celeste Berke [00:03:49]:

And kudos to that manager. I don't know if it was a mentor or manager who said, hey. I recognize this behavior. This is perhaps how it's coming across. And for you to take that. Probably that teacher student, right, part Yeah. For you to take that in and say, oh, okay. How can I change my own behavior so it is not looked at as?

Blaise  [00:04:12]:

Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it it's helpful because For all the newer reps, it's difficult with this no new, like, remote work work style, you know, just Distributed teams. Thank god this all happened. Like, I was sitting he was sitting on a call with me Mhmm. And tapped me on the shoulder. So I I try to impart that with newer reps coming up because, it's difficult to read a room via Zoom, and That's, like, one of the most key things to do.

Celeste Berke [00:04:40]:

Yeah. Zoom has definitely made looking at, I guess, like, the buyer's behavior in the moment. Right? Is someone fidgeting? Are they on their phone? And you can't see, like, what their hands are doing. Right? So you don't have no clue. Are they typing notes? Are they on their phone. Are they really paying attention? Are they picking up what you're putting down, so to speak? So I would say that has definitely made it difficult for all of us, and especially if you're the person that has a discovery call or whatever you wanna call it, a sales call, and the other person isn't even on camera. And you have no clue. Like, you cannot read it at all.

Blaise  [00:05:16]:

Yeah. Then it just feels like it's a presentation if they're not Edge. But funny enough, I'm working a deal right now that's in the middle of the funnel, and it's with a publicly traded company. And The SVP of sales was just sitting there quiet the entire time, and it was Just was not reciprocating. And I finally and I think it's okay to do this. Like, call them out and say, hey. His name's not x, but Right. Hey, Dave.

Blaise  [00:05:47]:

Like, notice that you're you're pretty quiet. Like, is this any interest? Like, You know, you came to us, and I'm trying to, you know, have a conversation here. Thankfully, like, what I found out after calling him out, Which I normally wouldn't do, but it was just such an awkward, you know, first 15 minutes that he was like, no. I I really like I'm just thinking. And so being comfortable with silence is is another thing, which is, like, a great skill to learn, but I like, after 15 minutes of silence, pretty much, I'm just like, What are we what are we doing here? Do you, like

Celeste Berke [00:06:20]:

Right. Is this And especially when the indicators are they reached out to you, so there was some type of interest. Right? You weren't reaching out to them cold and getting that, I hate to say, like, temperature check or, like, hey. Are we tracking on the same page? And I think that is Totally okay. I know for myself a little funny story. I once was interviewing, and I was so bored during the interview. So I was in my Early twenties. I ended up getting the job, but I think I was so in I was so intent on listening that I probably had this, like, blank stare for forever on my face because I was just trying to soak in, like, a sponge what they were saying.

Celeste Berke [00:06:58]:

And then the next interview, which was the final interview, they took me to lunch where I was a different person. I was, like, lively, and it was more conversational. And then they told me later on, like, We thought you were gonna fall asleep during that interview. I was like, oh. But if they would have checked in with me during that, they would have seen like, no. I would I was just Really listening. And so I I think that is a skill that you have to be able to read the room and know a couple of those signals prior to making that assumption because, yeah, you could really piss somebody off. In your case, you didn't, and you went with that gut intuition.

Celeste Berke [00:07:35]:

So kudos to you on that. And You'll have to keep me posted if that deal goes through because we all know at this late stage of the year, Things are getting pushed to next year. Alright. So love that about The Sales Edge. Thank you so much for sharing that story, T shirt to your current role. Oftentimes, when we come up through sales, I have a lot of bad Practices focusing, like, 15 years on Bant without knowing it was Bant because nobody called it that. It was like a check the box order taking type of sale. And we don't know at times that we have bad behavior or we are, following something that maybe we shouldn't follow anymore because it's gone out the way of the window.

Celeste Berke [00:08:24]:

So I love to have guests talk about a sales myth that they want to either bust, exploit, or give us a new one so that others can learn from it and or take notes to enhance their own sales skills. What would that be for you?

Blaise  [00:08:41]:

Yeah. So I would say the the biggest myth that I would like to bust is just because the c level is excited about the project doesn't mean you have a deal. And what I mean by this, especially within, like, Medpick, like decision maker. Like, case in point right now, working a deal. The CMO is the final. It it's the budget's coming from him. He's the one that is the most excited about it because it'll benefit his team the most. However, after looping in his technical counterparts To evaluate, they're saying that there's too many fires to put out, and this is something that they're gonna table in 6 months.

Blaise  [00:09:25]:

The discovery that was involved really touched home on how they're behind in pipeline, where they need to be. So, like, he understands conceptually. But because there's, like, this there's other technical fires that need to be put out first before addressing his needs, this is something that's That's going to have to be stalled and then put on the back burner. So it's it's a tough thing to know that just because you have a c level Interest doesn't mean the deal is gonna come in at the time that you forecasted. It's not a matter of if, but when. But, Yeah. There there are a lot of landmines these days given the economy of, you know, buying committees getting larger and larger. So Making sure that if there's 1 bad egg in the buying committee, address their needs up front early.

Blaise  [00:10:14]:

Make sure that they're on your side As well. And then

Celeste Berke [00:10:17]:

And it and it's hard to you don't have a front row seat into what's going on inside the organization. So you can look at problems, but a problem that's impacting a CMO, like you said, from the technical side. May not be a problem to that technical team, and you have no clue what else is on their plate and what is coming up or some type some type of urgency. I had a call within the last week that's very similar. Right? They they know they're severely behind in pipeline. They've gotten a lot of funding in the past couple of years. Like, they are not tracking at all to get to where they need to be. Now our team could come in and deliver a kick butt training and align the whole sales team, but we thought, you know, we need to take a step back here because this is there's company wide issues that are going on that just working with 1 department isn't gonna solve, and it kind of sounds like you're in that place.

Celeste Berke [00:11:07]:

It's It's not a no. It is a there's some other things that are going on that either take precedence, have to be fixed first before your team can come in. You know, this, In most cases, tech or a solution is no longer a check the box. It's really to enhance the performance of the team. But as sellers, we always put our blinders on, and we think, like, oh, it's just about the sales team. It's just about the marketing team. We don't realize, like, how intertwined all of these teams are. So thank you so much for sharing that.

Celeste Berke [00:11:38]:

I think new reps often don't see take a holistic approach to what else is going on within the organization, which is a whole another topic. So thank you for sharing that. And I will say but anything else to add to that?

Blaise  [00:11:55]:

Yeah. I I mean, just to to wrap it up, it does make you think like an executive because you have to think at an organizational wide level on, like, And all the risks involved within your deal. So I'll I'll leave it with that. But

Celeste Berke [00:12:07]:

We love that. I would, you know, give a plug for the gap telling that really it we need to talk about big business problems. We can't be looking at, okay, how your feature benefits one part of the company. Like, there's So much going on within an organization, and oftentimes, it allows us to have a PhD within the organization, which means we have to go out and do our research. I talked with my brother yesterday. It was my 44th birthday, so he called me, and I said, thank you. Thank you. It was like another day in the life.

Celeste Berke [00:12:38]:

When you get older, you're you have to really go out of your way to celebrate, I'm realizing. But I was talking to my brother, and he's a junior partner, Ernst and Young, and he was talking A lot of technical jargon. And I looked at him like, I have no clue what you're talking about. And I realized A lot of the times, our buyers, even if it's like, this is our ICP, that can span across many industries. And if we don't take the time to do some research and really understand what is their language, what matters to them, we are doing ourself a disservice because we're just trying to push the sale along, not understanding what's going on within the organization, not thinking like a c suite. So this is why I connected with you at SaaSter because I was so blown away by first of all, you were one of the few people that really knew problems that you solve for that were tech on the technical side that were more of these big business problems and wanted to bring you on because I think a lot of people can follow and learn from you. I love the content that you and your team are putting out there. And I will say, Give Blaise a follow on LinkedIn and user gems.

Celeste Berke [00:13:46]:

And if you'd like to connect and talk to him about running, he also is in the big the big apple, so I can't imagine all the stops you have to opt in while you're doing your your run race or your run races your run routes, but also the content that you're putting out. We were talking about real world scenarios, what's going on within a buyer, what's going on in the process. People can really learn from your journey. So I appreciate having you on here today. Take care, and we will see you on LinkedIn.

Blaise  [00:14:17]:

Yeah. Celeste, thank you for everything. Awesome meeting you. And, yeah, when if you're ever in New York with the team, hit me up, and we'll we'll, Hopefully, we can we can cross paths

Celeste Berke [00:14:27]:

again. Thank

Blaise  [00:14:29]:

you.

Celeste Berke [00:00:00]:

Hello. Hello. It is Celeste here on the Sales Edge podcast. I am with Riley. I'm so excited for him to share his story. I will say he has a storied past that he just shared with me. Connect with him if you wanna hear all the details. He started hustling at the in the 4th grade. Right, Riley? 4th grade? Yeah. Hustling and learning Sales before he even knew that's what he was doing. So I'll let Riley introduce himself, and we'll get into it.

Riley Blaisdell [00:00:33]:

Well, my name is Riley Blaisdell. On this platform, I am known as a chubby unicorn, which is the emoji of a rhino, and it was a nickname that my friend's daughter gave me When she was, like, 3 years old, and I'm really excited to be here. When Celeste asked, I said yes. So when Celeste asked, say yes.

Celeste Berke [00:00:55]:

Awesome. Yeah. So Riley and I met on LinkedIn. I see them all over the place. Right? Commenting, sharing, adding insights. So we get to meet in person next week at Saster, and I'm excited for that. I know a couple of my team members have mentioned your name as well. So you're clearly doing something to make a name for yourself, sharing information, education, and value. And I wanna I know we'll get a little bit into your story, but tell us a little bit about your foray into sales before we ask you about your sales edge.

Riley Blaisdell [00:01:28]:

So, like, my introduction to sales is what you wanna know about? Oh my goodness. I'm the youngest of 8. I come from a very low income family Where we didn't have money to provide for certain things, so a lot of the stuff I was getting was hand me downs. And so when I was a kid, I found out, you know, like, Everybody wants candy at school. And so I started buying candy and bringing it to school, and I started selling it out of my backpack. And then I built a relationship, Ship, and I found who the wholesaler was in our area, and I would walk 3 miles to go do this. And I'd bring the candy back home, and I pack it, and I take it into School, and I would sell it. Not only was I selling candy, but I was also selling my friendship at that time to other kids in our school, Which sounds pretty darn awful, but, you know, I I built a business off of it. I learned a lot from doing it.

Celeste Berke [00:02:18]:

I'm sure. Probably others were thinking this is a budding entrepreneur we have here or budding salesperson. And so you're with Paycor currently. Mhmm. What is your role there?

Riley Blaisdell [00:02:32]:

I am a MMSE at Paycor, so I sell They'll payroll an HR software. So if you need to make sure you're paying the most important asset of your business, which are your employees, Talk to us. But not only do you wanna pay them, but you wanna help develop and grow them. Because at the end of the day, we all need great leadership. So how do you do that? How do you improve your 1 on ones? There's a lot of stuff that we bring to the table That other providers are not, so our tagline is we empower leaders because that's where it starts. And I can I can say fullheartedly that I know that I have a great leader that I'm underneath right now, and it is one of the biggest reasons why I chose coming to here? And this is not a easy industry or market to really learn, but because I have a leader that believes in me, because I have a leader that supports me, When I get distracted by the sign shiny object, like, oh my goodness. What about this? He's able to help reel me in And give me guidance. And a great leader is not somebody that demands from you, but somebody that mentors, supports, and helps you Tap into your full potential.

Celeste Berke [00:03:45]:

Absolutely. And so it sounds like when we talked earlier about your east your sales edge, right, like, what makes you unique, that you are doing the exact same thing, paying it forward, going back, helping other people. Tell us about what sets you apart. What's that sales edge, that you exhibit daily.

Riley Blaisdell [00:04:06]:

So my sales edge is going to change now. My sales edge is the fact that I don't believe good enough exist, perfect exists. And what I mean by that, I'll actually share a story so we can understand. The last company that I worked for for 9 years, when I first applied, I did 3 phone interviews. They were, like, 30 to 40 minutes long. Then I finally got the phone call to come in and do a in person interview. Went into the office. I met with the cell the training manager then, then met with the sales manager, then met with the VP of sales, our VP of the organization. And they said, great. We'll get back to you. We'll let you know by Monday what direction we're gonna go. I mean, I spent, like, 4 hours there at this office. And I left for the weekend, and I was like, man, I'm pumped. I know I'm gonna get this offer. Email comes in on Monday, and My heart broke because they said they wanted to go a different direction. And I was so disappointed. So I reached out. I said, I reached out to the training manager, to the sales manager, to the VP of the company asking for clarification, and I pinned them down. Like, I was very persistent. And I got the sales manager on the phone, and he was like, look. Here's why we passed on you. You took a year off work. We don't have anybody that could do that. I said, well, I worked in the collections industry. It wasn't something that Is very healthy. It really kinda ruined who I was as a person, and I needed time to heal to find myself again. Now I'm looking for a career. And they go, okay. Great. And I said, I guarantee you, if you give me the opportunity, I will be what Russell Wilson is to Seattle. Now keep in mind, the company that I'm going to work for or trying to get a job offer from Is a Seattle based company. He's a big Seahawks fan. This is 2013, so this is when Russell Wilson was doing really well. And I said, if you guys give me the chance, I will be with Russell Wilson. It's to Seattle. And that was one of the things that he really loved. He also loved my persistence. And they ended up extending an offer after a while going back and forth, and I ended up getting my chance to work there. And I find it very funny that the year that Russell Wilson is no longer with Seattle is the year that I'm no longer there, and I got laid off from this organization.

Celeste Berke [00:06:38]:

But you were there 9 years. Right?

Riley Blaisdell [00:06:40]:

Yeah. I was there for 9 years, and I had a large book of business. I was one of the top 2, 3 producers there within the organization. What I remember in my interview, He painted out what he wanted us to accomplish within 5 years. I accomplished what they wanted in 5 years and two. Right. So even the 1st year when they ended up hiring me on, they had 2 other people there. My book of business was 6 times greater than their book of business combined. Wow. And it's because of that chip on my shoulder that Mhmm. One, I'm never gonna be good enough. Right? I gotta earn it Every freaking day, and I'm not gonna let up off the gas pedal. And even when I get to that point of, like, oh, this is what success is, Success is not that. Success just moved. That bar continues to get raised. So I think this is where This is my secret to what makes me makes me me.

Celeste Berke [00:07:40]:

Yeah. Well, definitely, you know, that upbringing and having to look at how do I help provide for the family at a young age and probably learn skills and have an education way beyond Any formal education at such a young age helps shape you into this consistent drive, right, to accomplish, It's this consistent drive. And it probably goes back to being a competitor as well in sports. Like, it's the job's never done. Right? A win is just a win, but it's like, what's next? What's next? What's next? And sometimes I find it's hard to relish in the moment, like, in the present because we're secretly thinking, like, for what's, like, the next thing and the next thing, and that goalpost keeps moving. But it also is I think you and I were talking about this Dedication to being a lifelong learner and giving back to others as well. Because as we talked about off camera, there everybody has imposter Syndrome. Everybody's thinking, like, what if I don't fit in? What if I don't belong? Like, what if this isn't good good enough? Like, we're a perfectionist. If it's not perfect, I'm not gonna do it. And you mentioned that you come in and tell people, like, okay. Let's take a step back. Like, why does this matter? Why does this matter?

Riley Blaisdell [00:08:55]:

Yeah. I mean, here's the thing, like, we're always gonna have that feeling like we don't belong or we're not good enough. We are our own worst critics. And when we look in the mirror, sometimes we're gonna look in it, and we're not gonna be happy with what's there. But the story that we tell ourself Is what really matters. Just because you don't feel like you're good enough, doesn't mean you don't deserve to learn. Just because, like, you feel like you didn't get a Traditional education doesn't mean you didn't deserve a spot at the table because you have to prove yourself day in, day out, And that piece of paper only matters so much. And I'm a big believer in educate. I just didn't get one the traditional way. But I can thank Brian Tracy for this because I was listening to the Psychology of Selling 12, 13 years ago, and he's talking about DriveTime University. And so I ended up taking the time that I spend in my car by myself, And I changed it to audibles and podcasts that helped me develop and grow. Now I think at the time, He shares us a a statistic that says most people spend, like, 40 hours In in a vehicle. Right? And I think it was, like, a month. Think about all that time that you have to learn. Think about that great use of time. Like, most people are listening to music. Mhmm. So, like, for me, a treat to listen to music is when other people are in the vehicle with me. But for me, an opportunity to learn is when I'm by myself. And, heck, even when I was laid off, And, like, this is why I'm a huge fan of Jen Allen. My daughter's bath time routine was Like, I would give her a bath in the scene when she was that small.

Celeste Berke [00:10:48]:

Mhmm.

Riley Blaisdell [00:10:49]:

And Jen Allen's podcast, winning the challenger cell was there. She would have phenomenal guests That would talk about things. And it would get my wheels to turn where I'm like, oh, yeah. I agree with that. Or, oh, shoot. Like, it would challenge the way I was thinking to be like, oh, wow. There's a different way to go about it. And so I would end up having that time with my daughter, and she's listening to this Phenomenal listener. That's brilliant. Beyond belief. That is really giving me the power to heal because I'm learning. And so I give her her bottle. She would fall asleep. That podcast would be going. I'd put her down. You know? I'd go take my shower. I'd be putting that in the background. You know, like, I was just so eager to learn to get better, especially because My goal was to transition into tech. And at the time, I was getting rejections where people were like, hey. Sorry you don't have a degree. Sorry you don't have a SAS background. I'm like, dude, like, I spent the last 9 years doing b to b wholesale, and I sold a c suite level. I sold the owners. I also end up knowing how to be a full cycle sales rep because I would hunt and prospect for new business nonstop, but I'd be relentless about that. So even when I had something that happened, like, I lost a $500,000 annual account around Christmas, and normally that would end Breaking your paycheck, but because I kept filling the pipeline, kept filling that funnel with constant new opportunities because people are gonna leave you. Even if you do everything a 110% right, they're gonna leave you. So I didn't feel that blow because I was constantly filling my pipeline in my funnel. And then there's times where I took clients that bought they started out at a $517 spend annually, And they turned into a 4 and a half $1,000,000 account

Celeste Berke [00:12:42]:

Wow.

Riley Blaisdell [00:12:43]:

After years years years of growing it from 500, Growing it to 12, growing it to 36, growing it to 72,000, 378,000, then a 4 a half 1000000 jump. It doesn't happen Overnight. It's just like when we're kids, we don't start walking right away. We fall Flat on her face. Like, my daughter falls flat on her face constantly and cries and then gets up. And so this is what's the big difference is, like, how many times are you gonna getting up after you fall flat on your face. Are you going to give up because it hurts? And I think failing hurts more. Why not be persistent?

Celeste Berke [00:13:27]:

I love that. Yeah. And the kid analogy as you know. I'm right there with you. Right? Those kids are relentless. They have a goal. Like, nothing's stopping them. They will keep trying and keep trying and keep trying. We can all channel that. So thank you so much for talking about your sales edge. Tell us you've been in sales for a long time. The number 1 sales myth that you wanna bust right now. What would that be?

Riley Blaisdell [00:13:52]:

Education. Right? You can get a degree, And I'm not against education. It doesn't have to be traditional like I have proven to you, Like others have taught, there's other ways to challenge channel information. Look at LinkedIn. Every post Can probably bring, like, some sort of nugget to you where you're like, oh, I never thought of it this way. Right? You wanna learn how to sell with your buyers? Nate, phenomenal. Right? You wanna learn how to end up improving your communication? Look at, like, Samantha McKenna. Right? There's so many people out there on this platform that are showing there's more than one way to sell, and there's more than one way to get a education. I mean, look at like, Julia Carter uses a lot of humor. Very fun. Very relatable. Right? There's so many great people on this platform that we can learn from and get better and improve this profession. And it doesn't have to be from a traditional degree. Right. And so I think what we need to do is find people that are willing to overcome adversity, That have that grit, have that resiliency, and that desire to learn, and that desire to not allow failure to be something that defines them But helps them grow. And I think you're gonna get the winning piece of something that is gonna be missing because you can teach somebody How to do their job. But if you have somebody that is scared of failure, they're gonna fail at doing their job. And, again, like, I'm in a industry where I'm failing constantly. Heck, the other day, I posted about a cold call where I used an acronym on the phone With somebody, and they were like, hey. I don't

Celeste Berke [00:15:46]:

I don't even I saw your post. Right? And then you and then you asked another one, and they were still like, I don't know what you're talking about.

Riley Blaisdell [00:15:53]:

Yeah. And and it's because I believe like, I thought that was, like Sure. Common sense. Right? But it's because I'm from out of industry, and I'm learning this stuff. And it was something where I was like, you know, when I sold disposable gloves, I never called somebody up and was like, Hey. Do you got the Gwan, which was like an orange club? Like, nobody knew what that was. Right? Like, that's not how I Both. Okay. And so it was a it was a an awakening for me. And I actually sent an email back to this lady, and I said, hey. Like, I cold called you. I said this, this, and this. You told me this. I wanted to really thank you for giving me that, like, perspective Of, like, that awakening, that moment of, like, use Use common language, and I say this all the time to people. I'm like, explain it to me like I'm 5 because I love that Michael Scott gift. It's like one of my favorite gifts. Wait to me, like, I have 5. You know? And that's what that's what we need to do. We need to get rid of these buzzwords. Right? Like, Truthfully, like, it makes us sound smart when I'm like, oh, yeah. Seamless integration.

Celeste Berke [00:17:03]:

Right.

Riley Blaisdell [00:17:04]:

Man, There was a time, and my manager even told me this. He was like when I when I first when we finished our 1st fiscal, He was like, dude, there was a time you couldn't even spell HCM, and he wasn't wrong. Like, I'm still drinking from a fire hose, and I'm still trying to tread water, and I'm still learning. The difference is that, like, I'm not gonna give up. Failure is not an option. The only option is success, and so I'm going to find ways to continue develop, Continue to learn. And there's people that I'm gonna engage with and ask for time on their calendar to help give me a review or oversight on how to continue to get better in this space, and I'm gonna do the basics really well. Right? I'm gonna seek to understand. I'm gonna learn to What the real true problem is, and I'm gonna understand. Is it is it the right time for them to make this move? Or Am I just trying to sell because I have a quota to hit? Yeah. And if I'm trying to sell because I have a quota to hit and you get that commission breath, I'm doing it wrong.

Celeste Berke [00:18:11]:

Commission breath.

Riley Blaisdell [00:18:13]:

Right? Like Yeah. I think Yeah. What we need to do is focus on being of service. Right? Where we need to focus on, Can I really help you solve that problem and other problems are gonna occur because your business is at this size? And, eventually, when you get to this next step in that business, you're gonna approach this hurdle, this hurdle, this hurdle. But if you get it put in place now, By the time you get there, you're gonna bypass all that stuff. You're gonna allow more growth to happen. So understanding how you can be of service by Taking the time to listen to others on the other end and what they really need and being confident enough To point him in a different direction of something. Great example right now is I had somebody that was Asking about our options that we have, and they've said that they wanted to come off a competitor of ours, which offers a PEO model. So I interpreted it that they wanted to get a benefits provider. So I made an introduction, and the response was, like, hey. Thanks for the introduction. You know, really appreciate it. But we're not looking at going from a PEO model. We really want that. So Not only did I own my mistake for missing that, I also asked For clarification on it, but I know that I have somebody that I have in my network that does this for a living. Great. The business wants a PEO, so why am I not gonna point them in the right direction? So I already reached out to my friend, And I'm going to make that introduction for them because that's what they want.

Celeste Berke [00:20:00]:

Yep.

Riley Blaisdell [00:20:01]:

And that's my job.

Celeste Berke [00:20:03]:

Being of service and being of value. And I loved how, you know, you talk about I think there is this myth out there that Salespeople or you know, you're in the tech industry, you have to have this, and we are we are evolving. If anything, TikTok, Influencer marketing. Anything has shown us people can come out of the woodworks and have specific set of skills or have the will and desire to learn, and they don't have That formal background or benchmark that most companies are looking for people to be within this box. Once we start spanning that box. I was a great example of it. My first position, as a director, managing people. I'd never managed anybody before. I hadn't worked in the industry. Couldn't tell you anything about it. And I got a job managing 5 people. And they said this was the first time that our company has gone outside of our box, which is you Had to come from within the industry, and you already have had to have, you know, been a manager before. And here I was in a director level, and I think it paved the way for them to open up their eyes to see great people don't come from the box that we have arbitrarily set. So I love that you shared that about, you know, nontraditional paths that people come across. I interviewed Alex Christian last week. He was a freaking commercial pilot. Right? And he is now an account executive. Like, it It there are so many parallels, but he had to paint the picture just like you are having to do you know, you had to do with that 1st job in also helping others to do the same. So I truly appreciate you sharing your story. I like to keep this brief because I know people don't have all day to sit and listen to a podcast, but I loved what you shared. I hope others will reach out to you and hear, like, your behind the scenes story. Right? That grit. Keep following you. You're dropping amazing real life Content about the day in the life of sales clubs. Right? What it's like to be in the sales seat, but also Really, truly being this lifelong learner and passing it forward to others. I truly appreciate your time, and I can't wait to meet you in person at Saster.

Riley Blaisdell [00:22:04]:

Me too. I'm looking forward to it.

Celeste Berke [00:00:01]:

Hello. Hello. This is Celeste. I'm here on the sales edge podcast with Alex, we met on LinkedIn.

Alex Christian [00:00:10]:

Yes. We did.

Celeste Berke [00:00:10]:

Where where you meet everybody in a business professional setting these days. And I'm so excited he agreed to come on the podcast, give a little insight into his world. We were chatting earlier, and I will let him introduce himself, but I'm just gonna preface this and say, like, it is not sexy, but it is absolutely needed. The industry that he's in and we're gonna chat about what's unique about his sales story and his sales ad. So Alex from Raleigh, not Raleigh Durham, Raleigh.

Alex Christian [00:00:42]:

Yes. Yes.

Celeste Berke [00:00:42]:

Take it away. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Alex Christian [00:00:45]:

Well, hi. I am a Alex Christian. I'm an account executive, like you said, based out of Raleigh, North Carolina. I am happily married to one of the best women in the world and a dog dad to an absurdly energetic little border collie I like you you kind of mentioned, I come from a very nontraditional sales background. That's actually how we connected. So I grew up in a sales family. Both my parents were in sales, so I swore up down and sideways. I would never get into sales, you know, mom dad. That's not cool. I wanna do something exciting. grew up in Louisville, Kentucky, which is UPS's WorldHub. So everybody's parents flu for UPS. And the really cool dads were the guys who would pull out VHS tapes of their time in the gulf war. and you'd see some real life top gun videos, and the aviation bug hit me hard. So I went to school for aviation, I'm actually a corporate pilot still, but as a commercial pilot, you are just a glorified bus driver of the sky. And so I was down in Tampa, flying these little charter flights to the keys every day. And my wife was back in Raleigh, and I was miserable. I was miserable. And so I said, well, what can I do as a career that I can take what I've enjoyed and transfer those skills? And so I sat down, and I said, what I really love is I love solving complex problems, and I love connecting with people. Oh, no. That's sales. So I started looking around shopping my resume out. I had a a buddy who was in like, ERP sales, working for Oracle and NetSuite. And so I was like, alright. This sounds feasible. and it shot my resume out. I started with a local company here in in Raleigh. They're an SAP bolt on shop. So they tie into SAP and Oracle and JD Edwards, all of these really boring financial c r CMMS Suites and ERPs, you know, maintenance and financial tracking, and they help companies tackle maintenance planning and scheduling and health health and safety permitting. And so I had to learn all of that from scratch. I knew nothing about oil and gas or mining and metals, an ERP in CMS was alphabet soup to me and learned that world very quickly. a master data company was then acquired. And when you said you're stealing my words here, it is not sexy because it's It's talking about how records individual data records are stored in these systems and how do we standardize them and keep them clean. So I that's what I've been doing for the past 3 years. I'm currently in the middle of a transition. I'm actually getting back to some of my roots, which by the time this goes live, I'll have shared more about, but staying in that inventory management and scheduling space. But with my own personal spin on that. So looking forward to the the transition coming up.

Celeste Berke [00:04:09]:

Something that I think it's really important is highlighting, sharing stories from individuals who have, like, an unlikely, you know, background, right? This I I myself, thought when I was 27 and I was leaving the south to move to California, I need to get into sales so someone takes me seriously by the time I was thirty. That's really what I thought. And so looking at this background that you had, I was like, this is a really interesting story to tell. you know, a pilot now turned sales person, but I can see when you're in that inventory space and the timing. I mean, it all kind of correlates to what you'd assume a pilot has massive responsibility for understanding all of the widgets and the gadgets and the inventory of fuel and timing and all of that. So How did you get that first company to --

Alex Christian [00:05:01]:

Yeah.

Celeste Berke [00:05:01]:

-- say, hey. This is totally how we would bring someone on board with this background. What do you think it was at the time?

Alex Christian [00:05:10]:

Well, I had I had bartended through college and waited tables through college. And And what I said is, look, I've got people skills. I have the soft skills. And then when you go to the the commercial flying world, aviation world, now there's this task management, crew management. How can you balance your priorities I likened it to risk management in in aviation because there's a lot of crossover there and how we analyze data analysis in the aviation field? How are you tracking your spare parts for your aircraft? Those are things that are dealt with day in and day out. So if I can understand complex systems, if I can understand how to manage my own tasks and and priorities, And if I can take these transferable soft skills that I've developed over the years, then making some phone calls sending some emails and connecting with people to solve a problem. That sounds like a one to one to me. It you have to add up a bunch of these tiny non integer parts to add to the 1, but it's a one to 1. And they saw that, and they took a chance on me. And so I started out as a BDR. They didn't just bring me in as a senior AE, of course, but That's where I learned and started, cutting my teeth as a BDR.

Celeste Berke [00:06:36]:

And I'm sure that anxiety of not having people's lives in your hands or at stake every single day. Was the woke was a welcome change?

Alex Christian [00:06:44]:

Yeah. So mostly what I had been flying down in in Tampa was cargo. And and that was that was fine by me because, yes, there is this there's a couple books that I really liked. One was called Human Factor's played by Sydney Decker. And the other one is the power of Habit by Charles Duhigg. And those are two books that I read through moving up into the the airlines. And the power of habit talks very explicitly about these human variables that we can control. And so the the mantra that I kind of took was I can control what I can control those are the variables that I have power over. I can influence the things that I can influence. And then there's this third chunk that I just have to accept. Everything else. Right? So I can control some things. I can influence other things. but there's a whole lot of stuff that's outside of your your power. And so, yeah, in in aviation, I can control my own skill set. I can talk to ATC and maybe shorten her out or change an approach. But if a gear decides to just shear off, or if, hydraulic fluid decides to just fail and spray everywhere or if you lose an engine, which has happened to me, Those are things that you just you gotta do the best with it. Compare that to sales, and now it's alright. I can control my outreach. I can control my tone. I can control my intentionality. I can influence champions, work with them, And then I gotta accept all the other variables that are outside of that. So the stakes are a little lower, but it's equally enjoyable.

Celeste Berke [00:08:31]:

So we talk on this podcast about the sales edge, and I think you've alluded to it a little bit where I ask individuals who are on here, guests, you know, what is your sales edge? I'm a firm believer that all of us have that kind of thing. Maybe we've arrived at some point in our career, like, hey, I'm really good at it, or this is a philosophy I stand by or this is kind of my thing or my spin. What is that for you?

Alex Christian [00:08:54]:

Yeah. I I like to steal methodologies from everybody and make them my own. And I think that's something a lot of people do, but I'm open about it. I I think when you are able to take what other people do well and and learn from their mistakes early on. That's that's really great. There's the classic saying that only a fool learns from his own mistakes. And a wise man learns from the of others, well, coming from this nontraditional background where, yes, that's an asset on its own, coming from a world that I I haven't built bad habits but now I'm able to learn from much smarter people co op their strategies take what works and apply that day in and day out. So it's kind of a a cop out in a way, but, you know, taking strategies from spin selling or Todd Caponeys, the transparency sale, or there's that guy Keenan. Yeah. There's an gap selling book or something like that, but taking what works for these people who have done this for 30, 40 years, finding what works and applying it on the first go round has been really helpful for me. So that's it's kind of a cop out answer. I I get it.

Celeste Berke [00:10:14]:

Not at all. I think it's very much in line with. We were talking prior to this about being in that, you know, the research triangle area, right, where there's these schools that are heating, like, heavily when it comes to athletics. And I think we've seen time and time again, especially as technology increases you know, this is really what everybody is doing, especially for athletes. So it's not one way, right? You have a different coach for strength and conditioning and your PT, it's taking all of this knowledge and how do you learn from other people and then kind of put your own 27.

Alex Christian [00:10:50]:

Yeah.

Celeste Berke [00:10:51]:

Yeah. I talked with someone last week who gave some great advice of he encourages his employees, his sales team, to have a board of directors. So look outside of the organization. Who are you going to for prospecting help? Who are you then? Probably women have this, like, more than men. Right? We're like, well, we go to my hair lady and then I go over Peter. I mean, they're all people who are sharing.

Alex Christian [00:11:14]:

I go across the street to my barber, and he will ask me all kinds of questions. I ask him about his life that I I I will be open about it. I'm happy to say I don't know, and I don't know what I don't know as well. So I'm happy to be curious and learned from other people around me. I'm not a Duke fan. I'm not a UNC fan. I make Kentucky wild cat fan. So so I won't use coach k as the analogy, but, like, what Calopari is doing in in Kentucky You're right. These coaches that all initially had, this is the way. This is our structure. This is our now you see wait a second. your system looks a lot like his system, and you might be better rivals. You know? And that's the way I wanna view it is there is no I'm I'm not dogmatic. There is no perfect way. There is no perfect methodology, but there are a lot of great methodologies, and I can I can start borrowing from each of those. So if if one day I write a book, it'll be a hodgepodge. My list of references will be half the book, I think.

Celeste Berke [00:12:25]:

Absolutely. And it, you know, it's interesting. We all do this naturally in life and you take little bits. I think, you know, top performers, people who are constantly challenging themselves and and reading and consuming information because you want to hone and perfect your craft, but also yourself as a person, So it sounds like that has really allowed you to embrace this world of technology, even when it that, you know, not very sexy. Right? But it's necessary. Right? This is all the back

Alex Christian [00:12:55]:

end. Yeah.

Celeste Berke [00:12:55]:

It's all the back end stuff. Nobody thinks about but it's not little robots that are doing it all. Right? People are managing these processes and looking for ways to make improvements. Exactly. -- said coming up through sales, I know you said at one point, you were tapped to be a player coach. Right? You still carried quota. You were now managing a team, often we just get thrown in there. Like, here you go. You're a sales leader. And you're like, I have arrived. And then you're like, oh my gosh. What am I doing? you're learning from others, a lot of times we're giving maybe advice. Maybe we bust a myth. You know, my mom probably still to this day would tell me that we just did this another day. She's like, you need to call your sister. You need to ask her. And I'm like, mom. I can just text her. Like, I have to constantly remind my mother. Like, I don't

Alex Christian [00:13:44]:

There's a quicker way.

Celeste Berke [00:13:45]:

I don't have to call anybody and wait for them to call me back, but she's just, like, convinced. Like, not gonna get an answer unless you call. And we're given that in sales too. Like, this is the way, this is the method. If you do this, this is gonna happen, and there were a lot of movies out there. that said, like, that hardcore pull pen style of sales is the only way. So if you had to say, hey, I, I saw a myth or I wanna bust 1, or I wanna put one out there, what would that be?

Alex Christian [00:14:12]:

I think I wanna get super philosophical for a second. So I even in my own life, you'll you'll wind up hearing me wax philosophically on occasion, but I think Getting to the core of sales, there is this misconception that sales is dirty, where sales is slimy, I think we all have that picture of, like, Danny Davido as the car salesman in Matilda. Hey. Let me steal your money. And and I I think honestly, growing up in a sales family, I I just thought sales was boring, but it wasn't until I started becoming a young adult, an adult myself that I'd I was like, oh, yeah. Sales is slimy. No. It's not. I think I had a little bit of shame in saying I was in sales, like, I would you see it all the time. Sellers will try and, like, hide behind these fancy titles that we've given ourselves to make ourselves sound like it's not sales. And I think, really, the the switch flipped for me after and so I grew up in a a family that it was you read the Bible and then you read how to win friends and influence people. Those were the 22 books. And the modern version of how to win friends and influence people is probably Todd Capone's transparency sale. And he he talks very openly about if you are building trust, it it comes from openness and transparency and honesty, and there's no shame in that. At the end of the day, if I'm solving a problem, then I'm doing you a service and helping you. And that is something that should be admirable, and it should be done with integrity. Right? a lot of people do make sales slimy in the same way that a lot of people would make financial reporting slimy or in the same way that there are slimy doctors and nurses, or there are bad lawyers. There are bad pilots. I've seen a lot. So, you know, I think every profession is what you make of it and who you are, your integrity, you know, who you are when nobody's watching. And fundamentally, sales is like any other profession. It should be around connecting with individuals, solving problems, and doing so ethically. So I think that's my biggest myth that I wanna bust. I am I I was one of those people who would try and say, oh, I don't wanna sell you anything. I I had to switch that real quick because, yeah, I am, but I have no shame in it anymore. So that I think that's my big one.

Celeste Berke [00:16:51]:

I love that. And, unfortunately, we're seeing more of a stigma around the sales profession as technology and AI and automation increases. I'm seeing it. I actually spent about 30 minutes today. Like, given some recommendations to people who had reached out to me, right, with their sales pitch and and me telling them, you know, why this is horrible, why anybody who doesn't need digging is going to realize they're not pre they're not preaching what they're putting out. Right? And it I think we are fighting this uphill battle of when we are -- putting things out at mass quantity because we're trying to make a number. We know the more touches we have with someone, right, the more opportunities We take away this personalization. We are discrediting salespeople who are out there every day grinding and hustling and doing it in an authentic manner. thank you for that. it is rampant, and I think we're gonna see a huge shift because it's it's given a bad names of companies who

Alex Christian [00:17:51]:

And there are still organizations out there that are doing it the right way, and they've always done it the right way. I don't know how many shout outs I'm allowed to give, but the folks over at Lavender are probably industry leaders in personalization and doing things with integrity, but you know, I I think that's I see this as a trend that more and more companies are seeing that and that it doesn't work to just be like Wendy's on Twitter and edgy and pretend to be a brand. It it comes down to each individual on as a part of your organization, how they present themselves. and how they interact. So I see it changing.

Celeste Berke [00:18:30]:

-- that comes from trading and modeling, finding people within the organization that are doing that well. And if you don't have that within your organization, like, take a hard look and and time to clean some house because what we're putting out there, it's really tainting salespeople and and, unfortunately, we still have to bust this myth that all sales people aren't slimy. I

Alex Christian [00:18:50]:

I use all the time. It starts with you and me. It's it's a

Celeste Berke [00:18:54]:

--

Alex Christian [00:18:54]:

I'm not in sales.

Celeste Berke [00:18:55]:

Right? Like, I never thought I was a salesperson and, like, I'm having a conversation. I'm solving a problem. I'm looking for a problem. I'm information sharing. but when we come from a place of desperation, it's usually very stinky for

Alex Christian [00:19:11]:

Yes.

Celeste Berke [00:19:11]:

Well, I've really enjoyed having you on here. I try to keep these short and sweet under 20 minutes. We're right there so that individuals can learn from you, but also some of those book recommendations, which will shout out in the show notes as well. I'm really excited for error date because I think you will have made a transition, and I look forward to keeping up with you and seeing more of your content on LinkedIn and your funny sarcasm, but obviously a very intelligent person who -- Well,

Alex Christian [00:19:40]:

thank you. Thank you.

Celeste Berke [00:19:41]:

No. It's not only I mean, if if I was gonna be in a place and and the pilot, had a heart attack and you were on my plane, like, I want you to fly that plane. So -- Yes.

Alex Christian [00:19:48]:

I I think that's every man's dream is to hear, like, I mean, you you don't want harm on anybody else. Right? But every man's deep down goes, I can land this plane. I can do And and then

Celeste Berke [00:20:01]:

-- Movies are made of it.

Alex Christian [00:20:02]:

So -- it it would be not a it would be a horrifying nightmare, but a dream nonetheless. Right?

Celeste Berke [00:20:09]:

I've got this. No. Truly. I can fly a plane.

Alex Christian [00:20:12]:

Yeah. There's there's a whole

Celeste Berke [00:20:13]:

-- You keep up your license then?

Alex Christian [00:20:15]:

I do. I do. Okay. It's more of a hobby now. Yeah. it's been nice. Sometimes we'll fly out to the outer banks or but I did have one VP at one point say, you know, we could probably expense this. And then I showed him the the average gas prices versus just a a one way flight on Delta. and that that was nixed pretty quick. So and then the other thing you can check out every Wednesday, I've decided that LinkedIn is we need a little upbeat positivity. So I've started sharing hump day recommendations with movies and books and music. Yeah. Yeah. So Not just a pilot. I'm also a big nerd.

Celeste Berke [00:20:53]:

So this is gonna this is gonna come out on a Wednesday, so most likely you will have shared something.

Alex Christian [00:20:58]:

I'll have a podcast recommendation to share now.

Celeste Berke [00:21:01]:

I know. This has been awesome. You're also a podcaster by hobby as well. So, like, multi talented here.

Alex Christian [00:21:08]:

You know, I am the really boring Ryan Gosling of the world. or Justin Timberlake. Like, I sell. I kind of fly on the side. I have a side podcast with 3 buddies that I've known for a decade. And and then I, you know, pop up here.

Celeste Berke [00:21:27]:

-- Spirit line yet. You need an alcoholic beverage backing. You need to get that to, like, really, really, really solidify your stature or car commercial. 1 of those 2. I

Alex Christian [00:21:38]:

it it's time. I'm gonna start calling Carvana and White Claw and whoever answers first. You know, that'll be that'll be our sponsor.

Celeste Berke [00:21:47]:

Awesome. Well, it's been a pleasure. I will end this here. Thank you so much, Alex.

Alex Christian [00:21:53]:

It's been great. Thanks a lot.

Celeste Berke [00:00:03]:

Hello. Hello. It is celeste. I am here with Daniel Palacios. Super excited to get to talk to him. Fun fact, daniel and I met through a training he attended. A new training. Well, it was a revamped training under the ASG umbrella for Gap, selling all for sales leaders. And what's really interesting, this was before I was certified partner. So I was peeping in on the class, watching Keenan, and Daniel stood out because he kept engaging in conversation, and it stuck with me many months later. And so, you know, here's someone who's selling in which, you know, most of us here in the States, we don't even think of other countries and doing deals in other countries, but here's someone who's selling into the Latin America space. And I'm so excited to introduce Daniel. I want to start off by having him share a little bit about his role and the company where he is right now.

Daniel Palacios [00:00:59]:

Thank you, Celeste. It's an honor being here. So, as you mentioned, my name is Daniel Palacios. I've been in sales for the last ten years. I currently work for Deal is the fastest growing startup in the history of software, basically, and I'm leading the Latin American team. We cover from Mexico to Argentina, excluding Brazil, and I've been in leadership roles for the past three years.

Celeste Berke [00:01:25]:

Awesome. And obviously bilingual. Do you speak more than two languages?

Daniel Palacios [00:01:29]:

I do. I also speak Portuguese, so it's Spanish, my first language. Then I learned the English. My dad and my mom were very keen for my brother and myself to learn English. Okay. So when I was applying to the sales manager role, I wanted to differentiate myself from other candidates, and I knew that the other candidates didn't speak Portuguese, so I started learning Portuguese, and my classes were in six in the morning, so it didn't mess with my golden hours for prospecting.

Celeste Berke [00:02:00]:

Oh, wow. I mean, that's totally unique, right? You saw that there was a gap. We talk a lot about how do you identify the gap? So for you advancing your career, there was a gap in gaining another language, so that's so awesome. I'm so impressed. Three languages, so that's what trilingual?

Daniel Palacios [00:02:19]:

Exactly.

Celeste Berke [00:02:22]:

Excellent. Okay, so you're based in Bogota, you work for Deal, you used to work at HubSpot. What made that transition to Deal?

Daniel Palacios [00:02:30]:

That transition to Deel happened to, I would say, one of the times that I wasn't in my full space. I did had a mental breakdown. I had to reach out for help. I was with my psychologist, and she gave me a lot of guidance, and mental health is not a priority for me. I used to work, I don't know, 1214, 16 hours a day, and I knew it wasn't sustainable. So one of the things that I needed is a change. HubSpot is a great company. I owe a lot of things to HubSpot. When I moved back from Canada, I was living in canada when I joined HubSpot. So I moved from Canada to Colombia, where I was born and raised, and HubSpot gave me that chance. I was nine months, basically without work when we came back. So HubSpot gave me that shot to become their first account executive. It was two of us. So I was one of the first two account executives that opened the Latin American office. And then they gave me the first shot to be the first team lead based here, the first sales manager based here. So I'm very thankful to have so, but I was in a time that it wasn't the good company for me. My dad has a saying that not every kid is for every school, and not every school is for every kid. So I had to make a change, and Deal reached out to me. I met their leadership. It was amazing. It was a different stage where the company was at, and they gave me something that I need at that point in time, which was a little bit less stress, less workload, to be able to come to my full potential again.

Celeste Berke [00:04:03]:

Yeah, and thank you so much for sharing. I think so many people in sales can relate to this burnout factor. I mean, I had it right around age 40 when I was in corporate. And you're trying to juggle all the things and you realize, like, this isn't sustainable, my quality of life, and you have to balance that. And I think really leaning into that, asking for help, asking for resources, just like a team would ask. So that's a whole nother topic on mental health and sales and the burnout factor. But I want to ask you today something that was really interesting and stood out to me was you're building a team, this Latin American team, and you stood out as a sales leader. And often when people kind of are rising up as a sales leader, there's something that they do or something that they stand by that sets them apart. I like to call it the sales edge. So you and I were chatting earlier about this. I'd love to know what is really unique about your process that you've had with people you've coached and or mentored.

Daniel Palacios [00:05:05]:

I would say my sales edge is onboarding, setting people for success. And in my opinion, you have three types of reps that you will encounter. You have a rep that's already a top performer, which is what you do with this person. I had one in the past. She was 130 plus percent rep. So how can you wow. Make in particular her the best version of herself? So she was even a better salesperson than I was. So I look in the mirror and say, how can I best support her? So I told her what type of goals you want to achieve? And this was during my time at this P club at most companies have, but HubSpot had this Founders Club. So I told her, why don't you hit for thought? She told me I didn't thought about it. You could do. So I help her design the plan and my goal or my support with her was keeping her accountable and giving them basically the math to know how much she needed to achieve and anything that was not revenue related, I will take it on my plate. Everything internal. All that bureaucracy that companies start to when they get bigger so she can focus on selling and thank God she achieved that. So that's one type of red you're going to face. The other one is a rep. That it's. 100% rep, 110% rep. How can you make that rep better? Then I also had one rep like that and I pushed him. He got to 130 and in my experience, he's one of the most consistent reps I've met when he and I work. He was 28 months in a row hitting quota. We had a monthly quota, which is in my opinion, something really impressive. So that's the second type of rep that you face. And third one is the ones that are below 100% or struggling reps. We can call it two, so let's say below 100%, like they're 90. Can you challenge them? They basically are at the number. How can you support them to either become 100% plus reps or top performers or they want to go into different roles. So you have to have that honest conversation. I always help people transition. At HubSpot, I had two reps on my team that were promoted to managers at Deal. I have had three reps that have been promoted internally. One went to onboarding. He wanted to be an onboarding manager, so I helped him be. He was my first top performer here at Deal. Then I had my second top performer. She wanted to go to account management because she wanted to sell more install based deals and have longer relationships with customers. And then my third top performer here at Deal, he moved a couple of months ago into mid market in account management because he wanted to move into a higher segment. Or I usually work in SMB. He wanted to move into mid market, so I help him. And basically my team is brand new. So I'm in a position where I onboard people, in my opinion, is one of the skills that reps that have worked with me tell me that I onboard really well people and I give them the tools to be successful. So that will be my edge, onboarding people. But I've done the other two as well, like having 100% rep moving to 130 and 130 rep moved to, I think she did like 180 or 200. It was really off the charts. So onboarding? Yes, go ahead.

Celeste Berke [00:08:32]:

That sounds like as a leader, you are looking at each individual, right, not what's in it for them, and then you're willing to take part in how do I help you get there? Let's make a plan. Let's personalize the plan. So for each individual, it's really a carved out niche plan versus one plan for everybody.

Daniel Palacios [00:08:52]:

Oh, 100%, you have to do one plan per person. I think it's cookie cutter approach. You cannot do that because every person is unique. Every person has different skills and abilities, and you have to put them in a position where they can excel. And in my opinion, it's a two by two matrix. We saw this in the trainings, skill versus will. It's a skill and behaviors. And I told Kenan the behaviors have to be a skill or will. Do they have the skill or they have the will to do it? If they don't have the will, they don't have the behaviors. It's a really complicated situation. But if they have the will and they lack the skill, it's on me as a sales leader to give that person what that person needs to be successful. Even if I don't have it. I always look around and connect with people because I know I won't know everything.

Celeste Berke [00:09:46]:

That's so awesome. And then being humble enough to say, hey, I may have hired someone who has a different skill set than I do. Maybe they excel in sales in a place where I don't, but I can still find them resources or plug them in so that they can keep up leveling and eventually move on. So I think that's swallowing your ego and your pride and saying, hey, I can help you, even though you might be further along the path than me. Let me tap into my resource 100%.

Daniel Palacios [00:10:14]:

I connect people with other people that can help them better than I can, because I know what I know and I know what I don't know and what I don't know. I usually have some people that's something I encourage my reps. Always have a board of directors. This was advice given to me. Have a board of directors for yourself so you can know who you can reach out to for specific advice. It could be how to sell complex large deals. It could be how to prospect better. It could be how to transition within. You have to have those kind of people in your network to support them, to support you.

Celeste Berke [00:10:51]:

Oh, I love that. A board of directors for your own self, right? Like you're your company, and you have a board of directors, people you can go to to help upskill you and move you along and just get feedback from. That's amazing. And then you also shared with me that anybody that you do coach, train, or have on your team, you ask them for a recommendation.

Daniel Palacios [00:11:10]:

I do ask them. I think it's more than 50 recommendations on LinkedIn that people have written over time. When I was selling, I told customers to write my recommendations. Now that I'm in leadership position, the reps that I've coached or people that have approached me to write something that I have impacted them during our time working together.

Celeste Berke [00:11:35]:

Yeah. So that's a note out there from Daniel to all the sales leaders. If you are not asking team members to write a recommendation from you, you are missing out on that social proof. He is proof of having over 50 recommendations on his social media, on LinkedIn that are a true testament to a sales leadership. So bravo to you. I think that's probably an untapped gold mine for many sales leaders who are sleeping on that.

Daniel Palacios [00:11:59]:

Yes.

Celeste Berke [00:12:01]:

We also talk about a sales myth, and I know you're huge on onboarding. So many companies keenan actually posted about this today, like, stop focusing solely on onboarding for your product. So I think there's a myth to be busted here of people can learn the product. And I'd love for you to say what you then do after teams come back and they've learned all they can about the product, how do you work with them and bust that myth that.

Daniel Palacios [00:12:29]:

It'S like product first, product first will happen? Because it's what most companies have on their onboarding. Like, they teach you their product. You have to know what you sell. It's not something you cannot go your life without knowing the product you sell. But it's not the only thing that you should learn. When I onboard people, the first thing that I have them do, it's a problem identification chart. So you're very familiar with that. I stole that from Keenan. And they do it on their own. They do it during the first couple of days, and they could get it right or wrong. It doesn't matter. It's the exercise of thinking in the shoes of your prospect. What can they experience? Because I always tell my team, when you ask a person to imagine themselves, their company, using your software, it's a heavy lift. Like, it's really heavy because you're putting them to imagine a world that is completely unknown. When you ask them of a problem, they can relate. And if you can relate, it's easier for you to connect the dots. Because if I tell you, hey, you face X, Y, and Z problem, they will say, oh, yeah, I experienced it daily, monthly, whatever. But it's very easy to relate to something that you have already lived than to imagine something that it's completely new to you. So that's the first thing that I tell my team, do a problem identification chart. They start doing it, they bring it to me. We review it together, we have a conversation. Then I told them, go back to the team. Not only my team, I currently have another sales manager in LATM. So I encourage my reps to go to the other reps as well. And then if you want to go to the US reps or the EMEA reps or APEC reps, you can do that as well. It's a matter of how much you want to see across GEOS. The problem that our prospects face, even though we sell the same product, sometimes the use case varies. So they start to build that and they realize how it becomes an easier way to speak with the prospects. Because you're speaking in their world. When you speak about your product or service, you're going to speak on your own world. It's easier because you're in control. It's rare that your prospect knows more of your product than you do. But when you're speaking about their problems, you're in your prospect world, so they're going to know more about their reality than you. And they could tell you, no, that's wrong. And people don't like being wrong, but that's how you get to learn more and more about their world and be more curious and actually really help at the end of day how they can leverage with their existing reality or product or service.

Celeste Berke [00:15:16]:

And how long have you been taking that problem? Like that problem identification chart and using it with your team and a problem focus? Like, when was that shift for you?

Daniel Palacios [00:15:27]:

I read the book. The first thing is I read the book, I think it was 2019 when it popped up.

Celeste Berke [00:15:34]:

Oh, wow.

Daniel Palacios [00:15:35]:

And I really got in love with the methodology and starting doing this not only for myself, but then when I became a manager first time, I started doing it for my team as well. So it was around 2019 when I read the book. Then I started following Keenan. I started doing a couple of courses that he published online and I asked him twice to send me a signed book. And he says, no, I have to go to the mail thing and have it shipped. It's really complicated.

Celeste Berke [00:16:05]:

We don't have books. I have a book here. I'm sure I could snag you one. We're going to have some at Saster so I could probably get a sign.

Daniel Palacios [00:16:14]:

I appreciate that. So I've been asking it will be a dream come true.

Celeste Berke [00:16:18]:

He's the person that okay, I'm going to write that down.

Daniel Palacios [00:16:21]:

It's one of the person that I admire a lot because it changed my perspective on how to do selling.

Celeste Berke [00:16:30]:

Yeah, and it sounds like from what you've been working on with your teams and obviously from your recommendations, that you really do take this approach of, yes, you have to learn about the product, but how do we learn about the problems that our customers are facing? And it's such a different way. Teams often feel like, oh, I never thought this in depth because typically they look at it as a transaction. So I can say you're one of those sales leader unicorns. And that's why I wanted to have you on here so you could share a little bit about what's unique in the way that you approach your team as far as the sales edge and then busting that myth that yes, it's all about product. Product is important, but if we're not speaking the language of our customer and understanding what their problems are, we're just another person selling a product. We were chatting earlier. We both have little kids. I mean, they're still kind of toddler, I think they still call them. We're both in that same boat of having little ones at home and working. But I truly appreciate you sharing your information with us today. I'm going to encourage everybody to go to your profile and check out those recommendations. I think that's something that's really unique that you're doing, and it is hard to humbly brag about yourself, but when other people are doing it, it's nice to read that and really see the impact that you're having and also send your customers there as well so they can get a feel for the team environment. It's like to work with you, not just coming from your own mouth. So I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.

Celeste Berke [00:00:01]:

Welcome to the sales edge. This is Celeste. We're here here with Carl.

Carl Ferreira [00:00:05]:

I missed it. You missed it. Pereira. Yes. nailed it.

Celeste Berke [00:00:11]:

Ferrera. So that's the case in point. If you do not have your voice pronunciation, which I think you do on your LinkedIn profile, put it there. Those names are tough. Names are tough, but I'm so excited to to to chat with you today. We were just chatting behind the scenes. Imagine getting a DM from Chris Walker, Mister LinkedIn himself, who basically blew LinkedIn up post COVID, with his podcast and his way of sharing content, getting a DM car all saying, come join my team. So as we talk about on this podcast, awesome sales leaders who are in the space doing amazing things with teams, and we wanna know, how did you get there? What is your sales edge? So we'd love to hear from you. What is your unique factor?

Carl Ferreira [00:00:57]:

That's a big question there, Celeste. Thanks for having me. what is my edge? What is my x factor? I think there's so many things you have to do well in a deal. Right? Deals are, super complex, managing lots of folks, lots of personality, lots of motivations, your own inter your own internal pressures and shortcomings, right? Am I a quota? Am I not? What is the business need? Is this a good fit customer, how good of a fit. So, you know, sales is really about being able to manage all of these things super well. Keep a calm head. And The X factor that is mine, and I believe is the X factor for companies that I consult, etcetera, is what I call deal drive. Let me define that. think my x factor is deal drive, and I would define deal drive as it's like a I don't wanna say, like, it's it's like gravity. It's like, you know that Soles, there's a force inside of a deal that moves it forward. Right? And it's not like booking the next meeting because you could book a lot of meetings and actually go nowhere in a sale. you could do a lot of demos, but you're still early stage in a deal. Right? So there's like this invisible force that actually drives towards a decision, whether it's a yes or no. Both of those are are are are positive outcomes. Okay. And I think that's my x factor. is being able to stay on course with does every sales activity actually drive the deal materially forward or closer to a decision. Because if you don't manage or leveraged deal drive trademarked. just kidding. Then you just, like, you were on sales cycles. You'll lose them. You're not sure why. They'll take too long. You'll do a whole bunch of extra activity and shit, meet new people inside the organization, and add complexity to the deal that doesn't need to exist for the sake of making a decision and getting to a decision, which is the end goal.

Celeste Berke [00:03:03]:

Yeah. So I I I love that term that you have Deal Drive. I think in from a a a gap selling perspective, we call it that next yes. and and most people think it's sales activity. Right? I'm gonna do this one thing. I'm gonna send this. And for you, it comes from that internal what is happening in this deal to keep moving it forward? What is that next micro, right, agreement something you have to send. They have to get it information share to keep this deal alive, so it doesn't flicker out. So where do you think you came up with the name Deal Drive?

Carl Ferreira [00:03:38]:

I don't know. I made it up for this podcast.

Celeste Berke [00:03:42]:

The trademark is coming. He's he's buying the domain. He's buying the domain right after this.

Carl Ferreira [00:03:47]:

paperwork's been filed. I don't know where it is. I don't even know if I wanna name it that. I've played with a lot of names related to, like, physics, you know, because again, it is this invisible force. that I think pulls or pushes a deal towards, again, a decision. But, that's I don't know where I got the name, but you're absolutely right. Like, a next activity, a next step doesn't actually mean that we got closer, materially closer to a decision. And I think a lot of frameworks and gurus out there, it they imply that even if they don't say Right? I'll I'll give you an example. A lot of sellers after discovering will just, like, say, like, cool. Well, the next step is a demo. And I always like, especially with my consulting customers. I'm always like, is that the next step, though? Like, is is that the right decision? It may be. And most of the times, it, like, is, especially in maybe, you know, a mid market, try to transactional sale. Right? You go from a discovery to demo to proposal to close. It's kind of like a 2 to 3 call sale. But I always wanna, like, who said that a demo is the right next step. It's an assumption, you know, and, like, how are we defining what is best. And I think the best sellers are thinking outside of the box saying, hey. No. Maybe like a discovery part 2 is actually a better fit for call too because that will better advance the deal. I can bring in more stakeholders to have a deeper business conversation because a lot of times I found that the buyer doesn't suggest a demo in the next step. You you get some aggressive buyers, especially the ones on LinkedIn who are like, I'm gonna see a demo on the first call. But I found that in true consultative sales where there is a considered purchase, buyers actually, they don't. They're like, Carl, you, like, what do I do next? Like, you're you've been a very compelling first call. I'm interested. I need to bring in my VP, Celeste. I need to bring in my CRO, Jim, And we need to figure out, like, and go deeper here. The answer is not a demo. It's to go deeper. And maybe we will show some of the product. During the services business, maybe we'll take a deeper dive in the second part of that call into the services a little bit more, right, of what it looks like to solve for the business challenges that we've uncovered and the gaps that we've identified, which are much wider than the buyer initially thought. And so, again, deal drive takes all those things into account and makes the best decision on the fly in the context of this opportunity. for the buyer so that they can make a decision and not just get the next piece of information, which is typically worthless.

Celeste Berke [00:06:21]:

Right. So it's it's all that undefined information that you uncover during that discovery that, you know, we we can't move forward. It's not in our best interest or the buyer's best interest to move forward without this information. It may come from a third party. It may come from the stats. You need an NDA. I mean, whatever it is, And I think what's really interesting, and I love to know before we move to our final or second question that we do on this podcast, I see so many people, companies, sales leaders who are still in this place of, I heard someone straight out of college, they we give them a script. You know, this is the disco, and then they're onto onto the demo, and then it goes to proposal, and then the pipeline is just all f's up because It's like nobody has eyes on any of it because they're not following this, like, intuitive process of wait a sec. I don't have this information. That person wasn't on the call. This might be needed. What about this new piece of information? How do you work with your team at Refined Labs for this, like, consultative approach to, like, a a gut instinct

Carl Ferreira [00:07:27]:

Yep.

Celeste Berke [00:07:28]:

In their sales conversations.

Carl Ferreira [00:07:31]:

As well, I mean, it's it's destroying assumptions. The assumptions that have to do every sale like this. And this is like the misconception. This comes from like, oh, we have a sales playbook. Yeah. I'm fine with a playbook, but, like, every sales a little bit different. You can't assume that they're all gonna be the exact same, right, even like in HubSpot. Right? It's an assumption that the deal stages are so nice and neat and linear. Oh, that's what I must the next step is the next stage in my pipeline. No. It's not. Right? That's just how your CRM is structured. That's not how a deal is structured at all. Deal's ebb and flow. They're like a dance. Right? They advance and they come back and new people are introduced and new business challenges are uncovered and priorities change because There was an off-site halfway between your deal and now where there's new information on the direction of the business. So to what I train my team is to, like, stop making dumb assumptions and ask in real time what is the right step based on the information that I have to take next. And if I don't have all the information to take that next step, then I gather it. I don't feel pressure to move to a next step because it's the thing I need to do without getting the information I need. And I always tell my team, like, what's under the table with this buyer. Get it above the table. Ask the hard questions. What happens now if we do this? What reservations what concerns. I wanna get all that stuff so I can resolve concerns and advance their actual conversation towards a decision. So I just train my team again. to answer your question in a in an extremely long winded way. Like, stop with the assumptions. And that takes a while to beat that out of your head because we've been trained for forever. Right? It's their whole careers. We carry these assumptions with us. And so it's like a really an unlearning process. that says, no. That doesn't have to be the next step. And it'll and allowing your team the liberty to screw up and make a decision on the fly in a deal that maybe isn't the right one. That's okay. I'd rather you you, like, eradicate the assumptions than make a chess move that wasn't the right one. Cool. We can revisit that coach to it. I'd rather create a flexible mindset than a rigid mindset that says, boom boom boom boom. These are the deals. This is the stage. This is has to be nothing in sales has to be anything. So

Celeste Berke [00:09:55]:

-- And that usually that usually stems from this, like, cloud that's hanging over all of our heads of, like, this is a sale. And if I this is my quota, and this is what the deal size is and kind of pushing that out of the way, and, like, we're in a conversation. Right? I'm gonna, I'm gonna take all the outcomes off the table. It's about, you know, establishing yourself as an expert and providing value to your buyer and asking questions that really set you apart from everybody else.

Carl Ferreira [00:10:23]:

Your consultants. Yeah. Exactly. Like, I want more buyers to walk away from my calls and be like, I would have paid money for that. I would have paid Carl's consulting fee. for that time. When you have that frame, your that your sales conversations totally change when you're like, what it was I worth on a discovery call? early in your career, you're worthless. Right? But as you you're just like a qualifier. Right? You're just going through your questions, right, your banter, your music, or whatever your framework is, right, your spice, your spicy, whatever your your your

Celeste Berke [00:10:55]:

SPIN, your who who knows what'll come next Right.

Carl Ferreira [00:10:58]:

But one from HubSpot is wild. You'll have to Google it. It's like 40 letters long. But as you mature and you're like, okay, now more $50. an hour. Okay. I'm worth a $100 an hour. Oh, now my the experience and the the breath of knowledge that I bring and insight I bring to calls is worth 5, $600 an hour. It doesn't matter where you are. You shouldn't feel shame, but are you moving towards being like, a a lot of people, like, throw it out there. Like, who would want comp to be a consultative seller? I'm a consultative seller. This is like, but your proxy for measuring that should be would somebody pet paid you for that time. And that really elevates, like, your frame of quality for that. And so I, again, encouraged my sellers to think in that way. Move your consulting fee in your sales process up quarter over quarter and eventually get to a point where I mean, it's masterful. People are like, dang. I wanna talk to you more and deals advance faster And there's a lot of great outcomes that that, you know

Celeste Berke [00:12:00]:

-- Damn. I'm sure a lot of people who will listen to this are like, oh, I need Carl. It's my leader. Right?

Carl Ferreira [00:12:07]:

Let's go. Hey. I'm available to fractionally tell your leaders, come hire me and select. So

Celeste Berke [00:12:13]:

-- Alright. So deal drive, that's where we're going.

Carl Ferreira [00:12:17]:

k.

Celeste Berke [00:12:17]:

We need to be listening to more from you on that as as you educate us all on just like consultative selling approach, but also so many myths. I mean, you log on to LinkedIn, and it's, even I, I get flooded with all these people. Like, scaling and doing well and AEs and SDRs need to do this and teams and the sales cycle and conversion. I mean, it's it's a lot of noise coming at you. and there's a lot of either misinformation or we are just changing so rapidly that things need to be challenged because we can't continue to do the way that we've done business. Insert. Whatever AI. I don't even know what the next thing is.

Carl Ferreira [00:12:59]:

Yep.

Celeste Berke [00:12:59]:

So we talk about sales myth. So I want to hear from you this concept around sales mess. What's something that you either believe to be true or don't that you implement? day to day in your world.

Carl Ferreira [00:13:11]:

Jeez. So many myths, Celeste. What a question. Yeah. I mean, I'll I'm gonna give you 2 myths. 1 of them is gonna be insanely brief, and then I'm gonna dive into my second myth. The first

Celeste Berke [00:13:21]:

myth -- And the myth isn't that Carl can't wear that shirt, because let me tell you. That's a bold that's a bold move. So all the mists out there that you can't wear bold shirts, that's out the window.

Carl Ferreira [00:13:32]:

watercolor, flowery polo. It's this is this is the real deal. Right? With a hat, long hair, is he homeless? We're not sure. So, yes, thank you. But first myth is that that will be brief, but then I'll go to the more important myth. So I gotta get 2 out of the way because you mentioned it. You mentioned LinkedIn and how many there are. And I think the myth related to LinkedIn is that there is one way to do stuff. And that's what is implied in a lot of these posts. right? Don't do this. Do this. It's like everything has worked at least once. Right? And so I think the myth is just like, that I have to do it this way or not. And I again, with my sales team, I try to eradicate that. Sales is chess. sales is a dance between 2 partners. Right? It's it's it's dynamic. It's collaborative. It and it can change depending on the movement or the chess moves of the other party. Right? Okay. So I'll shut up about that one. Wanted to get that one out. The the myth that I see harms at least my customers and a lot of salespeople that I chat with is the myth that staying on the theme of deal drive is that gathering information advances a deal. So an example is Vance. medic, med pick, spice, blah blah blah. Right? A lot of these are information gathering frameworks. And the assumption is that, well, if I gather these things, I'll get me closer to closing a deal. It's totally false, especially in a cons in a consultative sales, you know, motion or environment. Right? I can get here's an example, Celeste. I have budget for a lot of things. I am not committed to buying -- Yeah.

Celeste Berke [00:15:14]:

--

Carl Ferreira [00:15:14]:

any income. Right? I have budget for a nicer car. I drive a Dodge Ram. Right? I have budget for new clothes. I wear this shirt every day. Right? And so, like, to gather that bit of information, Celeste, hey. Do you have budget for this is, like, they could very easily say, yes, or say, my budget is $50 or, yeah, we can find the budget That doesn't answer the most important. That doesn't advance the opportunity. So the myth is that gathering, are you the authority? Do you have a timeline? every buyer has these things. Every human has these things to a to a degree that has nothing so less to do with a commitment. So changing your mind away from gathering information that I plug into the CRM because my RevOps team needs me to do this for forecasting purposes. And I I got the economic buyer and I got the pricing and I got how the deal gets done and everything that you need at for medic. it doesn't advance a deal. It's information. And a sale doesn't happen with the passing of information. It happens with the exchange of commitments, mutual commitment, So, again, I push my team to think less about gathering information and more about gaining and gathering commitments budget. I have a budget. But am I committed to solving my pest control problem? Yeah. Or my revenue leakage problem or my discovery problem or my top of funnel SDRs can't book book meetings for shit problem. I have budgets for all those things. but am I committed to solving them? That's very, very different. Am I committed to investing the money that I have and my time and energy to implementing this xyznew thing to solve for this. Those are 2 very different lines of questioning and conversations. And so I wanted to debunk that myth. Your information gathering is worthless. Commitment gathering is where big deals are done and accomplished.

Celeste Berke [00:17:10]:

Yeah. Definitely. And I and we harp on that as well. Right? It's the budget goes out the window. Right? If if you're solving a big enough problem, if there's a big enough gap, if there's a huge impact to an organization, even for ourselves personally. I mean, you talk about the Jodge Ram. I drive 2011. 2011. Do the math here, people. Nissan Rogue. This past February. it's fully, you know, was fully paid off within the first couple of years. This past February slid down a hill into a delivery truck, like, bang the crap out of the side of my car.

Carl Ferreira [00:17:41]:

Dang.

Celeste Berke [00:17:42]:

Have I got it fixed? No. I live in a dry climate. Like --

Carl Ferreira [00:17:46]:

Yep.

Celeste Berke [00:17:46]:

-- we're not getting any, like, rest issues here. I literally drive five miles a week or a day, five miles a day. Take my kids to school. Sometimes I pick her up. Like, I don't drive the car. I work from home. We have another car. So it is not a big enough problem for me to solve, especially in this economy, to go out and buy a new vehicle. Do I have the budget for it? Sure. Do you wanna spend it? No. So they think, you know, case and point there is as buyers ourselves when it comes to anything personal we do. We go through this whole process. because it's a change management process. Right? Do I have a problem? Am I committed to solving that problem? Do I actually want to do it? And am I willing to do it with you? But then when we get in this seller's seat, we totally forget that the buyer is going through that same thing, and we have to show them, like, this change management process. So I love that you're taking this approach with your team. I think there's so much opportunity out there for others to take a step back and, like, let's have a human side of selling. So any parting words here as we go, we like to keep this short and sweet.

Carl Ferreira [00:18:51]:

I know. And I've taken it, like, super long and sour. No. I appreciate you for having me. Celestus has been awesome. And, if anyone has questions or anything, like, reach out, talk about been selling, consultative selling. I think I've taken you long enough here. I super appreciate you.

Celeste Berke [00:19:07]:

Yeah. And I would also say, you know, definitely follow Carl, I was so impressed, but we connected. I sent you a t shirt. It's actually this one.

Carl Ferreira [00:19:16]:

It is that one. I've got my

Celeste Berke [00:19:17]:

own name. You're selling when you're selling, you're not selling. the same thing about this, like, commitment culture and this consultative selling, but I also love seeing what you're doing on LinkedIn because you're not just throwing out, like, statistics and things that can be done better. You're, like, challenging the status quo and sharing insights and challenging other people and it's always fun to see. I know you call it, like, some trolling, but from really a genuine place. So we'll have your information linked here. I hope you this sparks a few more conversations and, you know, as Refined Labs continues to grow, sounds like you're a leader. Many people will be hitting up. So I truly appreciate your time. Thanks so much for being here. We will see you in 1 year from now on a next step so.

Carl Ferreira [00:20:03]:

Put it on the calendar. 

Celeste Berke [00:00:01]:

Here we are on the Sales Edge podcast. I'm so excited today. Hi, Celeste. Your host here with Amy Rahovchak.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:00:09]:

Oh, my gosh.

Celeste Berke [00:00:09]:

Right? Did I nail it?

Amy Hrehovcik [00:00:11]:

That was perfect.

Celeste Berke [00:00:14]:

I know we practiced out of time. No, we've actually been chatting and it's like, holy crap, holy shit. I guess I could say that there is so much more to talk about. So I'm really excited that link in led us here. I saw you randomly. This is what LinkedIn does, right? It's like the universe saying you need to connect with this individual because there's something about them that you're drawn to. Definitely. Your profile. Let's just say without a standout profile, nobody knows you exist without your sales edge. So I want to talk in the next 15 minutes about what is that? So my idea of sales is that you don't necessarily have to be like, the greatest at it. Right?

Amy Hrehovcik [00:00:53]:

Right.

Celeste Berke [00:00:54]:

I think you actually posted about this. It's freaking hard. You don't just wake up one day and say, I'm going to be in sales and I'm going to excel at it because I practice one time. No, but typically over time, what we find is someone carves out, like, a little sales edge, right? Something that makes them unique, their go to whatever it is. We're going to find out from Amy today what that means in her world. And then we will wrap it up with busting a sales myth that she either believes to be true or is ready to dispute. So, Amy, tell us a little bit. Just who are you? Why was your profile shown to me? And I immediately was like, yes, let's message this person.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:01:34]:

Oh, my goodness. Alessa, it's an honor to be you know, sometimes I find it's best to just not question the LinkedIn gods and just be thankful for the gift of a new friend.

Celeste Berke [00:01:44]:

Algorithm works in your favor.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:01:45]:

That's right. Universe algorithm. I guess it's all kind of merging together. But I like to describe myself. I'm a revenue human for life. I was raised by a sales leader. I sold enterprise tech for a decade. I was sea level at a startup that was acquired. So that was cool. Built out two sales enablement departments, and now I've got a boot camp called the Buyer Experience Boot Camp and quick little Plug. Open enrollment right now, we start again September twelveTH, but who's counting? And, yeah, I'm excited to be here and dive into all that is great and hard and scary and messy about the greatest profession on the planet.

Celeste Berke [00:02:24]:

Definitely. Yeah. Thank you for that. And you're kind of in this transition point yourself. But what I loved about what you said is that you're kind of like tapping back into knowing your true north, which is the name of my LLC randomly and where you want to. So, like, what is that? If we say, like, Amy, what's your sales? Like, what is that thing that at the end of the day, you're like, I'm great at this. This is what makes me a salesperson. What is that for you?

Amy Hrehovcik [00:02:53]:

Yeah. Okay. So I wrote down two things, actually, because I couldn't decide between the two of them. But I want to preface this idea with just a quick precursor that I believe that there's an art and science to everything. Right. And I think what most people get wrong about this idea, you hear it played out in the right brain, left brain dialogues or debates, like, are you creative? Are you analytical? Like, it's nonsense. There's an art and a science to everything. And just like sale, there's no such thing as a natural salesperson. Right. Which was the post I think you were talking about. There's a tremendous amount of work that goes into it in the same way that we've never met a natural lawyer or a natural doctor. Right. That doesn't exist for sales either. And I mention that because I think a key piece to developing an edge or finding the art in how I want to sell or how I did sell it requires me to first understand and master the science, the fundamentals of selling. And then once I have my head wrapped around the fundamentals right? And then you can kind of start to lean into that edge. And I will finish this thought with, like, when I was learning to sell. Celeste, I'm dating myself here, but I stopped listening to music in my car for an entire year in favor of books on CDs. Do you remember those?

Celeste Berke [00:04:18]:

That was a thing not too long ago, I listened to one on a five hour drive. Still a real thing if you have a CD player.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:04:27]:

Oh, my God. Well, there was also a Tom Tom in the car, and the Maps Quest directions were printed out, like, strewn all over the seat. Okay. But anyway, so learning the fundamentals. Now, that said, to your question about what's my edge, I think there were two that really were fundamentally different in how I approach sales versus how, let's say, a sales boss or the average sales boss would prefer to have a rep execute. And the first was that I did not worship at the altar of my sales process. Right. I understood that the value that a sales process delivers is not to the buyer, right? It's to the company. It gives them predictability on how much revenue they're going to generate at a certain time. And in fact, this idea that the sales process or excuse me, the buying process or journey, to use a trendy keyword is a linear thing is nonsense. That is not how buyers buy. And so one of the things that made me really stand out is that I aspired to understand the buyer's journey and meet them where they were at. And then the second thing, I think, that really allowed me to hyper focus on my own effectiveness was I was ruthless at qualifying which opportunities I was going to work at any given time. Like, absolutely ruthless. And so there was a very specific criteria that I needed to see, and a lot of it I really did develop for myself because I knew how I sold and what worked and what didn't. And so, yes, those are the two things that really, I think, brought an edge in my direction after, again, the grueling part of learning the science.

Celeste Berke [00:06:17]:

Sure. And what's really interesting about what you said is this buyer centricity of we have to put as a seller our thoughts and the way that we want the direction to go and our desired outcome kind of aside and really get to know our buyer. So I love how you said you became very buyer focused, which I'm sure meant you were a detective, right. Figuring out as much as you could about people who worked where, what were they focused on, what was a priority to them, what wasn't. And that is going to be different from customer to customer to customer. How much time did you spend researching just like, people?

Amy Hrehovcik [00:06:57]:

I'm laughing because I don't even think I could put a number on it. I used to say, I have a self, I can't even remember the phrase. But I've done so much reading on the psychology of purchasing, on the psychology of the buyer, on just the psychology of decision making and biases and all those things, and we're talking about 2020 years worth. But I could talk about my favorite report right now, gartner's State of Buying Report in 2023, and the top ten factors that go into vendor selection. Right? So it hasn't stopped, but I'll add one more. When I go to conferences, one of my favorite questions that I would ask of people just while milling out and about is, which session are you most excited to attend, which is a proxy of what are you most excited to learn about, which is a deeper proxy of what is the business problem that you're kind of working on right now? And so I never gave up a good opportunity or I never missed an opportunity to, to your point, set aside my own agenda, which is hard to do when you are going to get fired if you do not generate a certain amount of revenue every quarter. It is exquisitely difficult, but you got to figure out a way to do that. And then it's really pretty misleading in that when you do figure out how to do that, the size of the deals that you manifest, the referrals that come your way just because you do show up differently, you do. Spend the time to understand and uncover the most important thing to the buyer and then really root out. How can I help them achieve that impact?

Celeste Berke [00:08:34]:

This is all juicy tidbits and we just could keep going and going, encourage any listener right? I mean, this is someone who's sitting in front of me on the internet, who I'm just like, wow, tell me more, tell me more about that. And something that happened to me early on in my sales career was just like figuring it out, right? Throwing mud at the wall. And we both started in a time where the internet wasn't really a thing, right? It just started. So for everybody who's starting their career now, you are miles ahead of what information is available at your fingertips, right. And you have to keep sharp if you want to continue to learn about buyers and the change. We have a huge change coming with boomers. My parents are boomers, right? Like 76, 78. My dad is still working, but soon he's exiting the well, probably not, but he may be exiting the workforce, right. These great minds who are going to be leaving and now we have a whole new generation coming up, 50% of millennials in decision making roles, like the way people interact, the way people buy, it completely changed, right? And it will continue to change. And if we are not looking at research and talking with people about what's going on in their world and getting really inquisitive, we are missing the mark and staying stuck in doing things that ultimately aren't going to help us shape our career. And I will tell you, even as someone who's going to be 44 next month, the amount of learning that I've had in the last year, in the last three years is more than the ten years prior combined. Never stop learning. And I love how you said you're just feeding yourself that information so you can stay current and you can stay sharp. Now, I want to end with something that I think universally everybody in sales has been told in one point of their career a hard, you must do this. This is a widely held belief that exists out there. What is the sales myth you were once told, taught to follow that you know now that is not true. And I want to bust that myth today.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:10:49]:

There's so many, I don't know how you expect me to choose just one of them. I think we got a tremendous amount of group think going on and let's say tech sales in particular. It's pretty wild. The sameness. Okay, so if I had to choose just one, I would say the purpose of a question, right? When I think about how most sellers are taught to approach the sales conversation and I'll ask most people, what is the purpose of asking a question during a sales call? Right? And generally you get some kind of response back, like to gather information. I'm trying to bant them, we're trying to understand their needs, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All of these things are true. However, if we take a step back right, and the goal of selling really is you're trying to help someone change their behavior, trying to make a better decision and move in a different direction. So what is a precursor then to a change in behavior, especially a team of people, right? It's a change of thinking. And then you can take it a step back. What is the precursor to a change in thought? And that is and always has been a great question. And so the purpose of asking questions in sales is not self serving. It is not to gather information about your buyers. It is to help them think differently about the business problem that they're experiencing so that they can attack it in a different way and achieve the impact that you bring to the table. So that's the big one, is the whole point, the whole premise of questions during discovery.

Celeste Berke [00:12:27]:

I'm, like, in awe.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:12:28]:

Yes.

Celeste Berke [00:12:29]:

Tell me more. Tell me more about this. The premise of gap selling is along the same lines of typically people go in and they have this I'm going to check all these qualifications off. And it's rooted anybody who has a problem, it's rooted in this change management belief and the neuroscience behind change management of, you can say you need to go on a diet. You can say you want to change something, but if you don't agree, you have a problem. If you don't admit you have a problem, if you're unwilling to make that change, nothing's going to happen. And so it's right along those lines of, and now I'm going to go look this up even more and want to talk to you further about this. Now I'm intrigued of really the psychology behind it and right, opening up this Pandora's box that as salespeople, what is the psychology behind our buyers and us as sellers, and how do we meet that in the middle in this sweet spot? So thank you so much for sharing that.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:13:26]:

Of course, anybody that's interested in reading further on this particular topic, I think the great Adam Grant did a great job with his I think it's his most recent book, Think Again. Really spectacular work. And it changes the way that you start to draft questions. It changes the way that you think about the buyer journey. Right. And I don't know, it's just like a very different way to approach it. I would say the runner up was that win rate effectiveness is greater than quota achievement. Change my mind. Right. The average win rate in tech sales right now is like, 17%, which is insanely low. And it doesn't need to be that way.

Celeste Berke [00:14:08]:

Right. And we're not talking about, all right, that 83%. Like, what's happening to that your sales.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:14:14]:

Process you're so obsessed with, like, you're setting your team up to lose 83% of the time. Have fun with that.

Celeste Berke [00:14:22]:

That could be how you sign off on all your podcasts.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:14:25]:

I love that. I may feel that.

Celeste Berke [00:14:26]:

That's really good. Adam Grant, one more time. What is the book adam Grant.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:14:30]:

Think again.

Celeste Berke [00:14:33]:

Look at me writing that down. Think again. All of you take a note. Think again. That is an awesome recommendation. Thank you so much, Amy. We try to keep this super short because the attention span of everybody is a goldfish. So probably going to watch us on two point speed, which I love and it's my recommendation, 1.5 to 2.5 or two. You can't go about that. I don't think it's funny.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:14:55]:

I'll take you right in the middle. I'm a 1.75 girl.

Celeste Berke [00:14:59]:

I think it depends. I find myself definitely 1.5. I sound just normal. I've realized I talk so slow. So, any parting thoughts for our listeners today as you are the first to kick off this podcast, the Sales Edge. And we have a great lineup coming up of just really unique individuals in sales who have been there, done that and are doing it still. Any parting words from you?

Amy Hrehovcik [00:15:23]:

Yeah. One of the best things that you can do for yourself mentally is to redefine your own definition of success, right. If you were born or raised in a Western culture, we define success as based on an outcome, right? When I get married, when I win this deal, when I buy this house, then I will be happy when the challenge right with operating well, first of all, that's incorrect. The joy to be found, the happiness to be found is in the journey. However, that mindset is exponentially more problematic for us as sellers because our outcome never comes, right. You hit your month, you hit your quarter, and what do you get? A weekend to celebrate it and then it starts all over again on top of if you do not do this, then you will lose your job. And so focus very hard on changing that definition for yourself and understand that success is in the journey. Success is in the inputs that you put in, particularly the work, the practice, the effort, the going and talking to buyers after you lose a deal or win a deal to figure out why and then recreate that moving forward. That's what winning looks like in this profession.

Celeste Berke [00:16:30]:

I love it. And, yes, I'm all about the journey myself because I've been there. I've gotten the big bonuses and the big paychecks and flew myself first class when I got my master's at George Washington and I was like, now what? Right? It's anticlimactic. It is about the journey and the process and the people you meet along the way who can have significant impact on your life. It has been such a pleasure hearing your short snippet. I will link everything in the show notes so you get a whole slew of new followers because the content you're putting out there is awesome. And I can't wait to celebrate your sales journey as you continue to impact lives. So thanks so much for being on the show.

Amy Hrehovcik [00:17:10]:

It's my pleasure, Celeste. Thanks for having me. Good luck with the new journey. Woo.