Changing the Rules

Guest Co-host:  Kevin Davis:  [email protected]

Podcast Guest:  Steve Franklin:  [email protected]

Transcription:

Kris Parsons00:02

Welcome to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do it too. Join us with your life. The host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.

Ray Loewe00:17

Hello, everybody. This is Ray Loewe. And I'm sitting here in scenic Woodbury, New Jersey, at the Wildfire Podcast Studios with our engineer Taylor, who makes sure that everything runs in the background so that we can focus on our guests. And we've got a great co-host today and an incredible guest. And let me start off by recapping real quickly that we are working with the luckiest people in the world and the luckiest people in the world are those people who take the time to personally redesign their own lives and live them under their own terms. And, Kevin, let me introduce Kevin Davis. He's been our co-host for this month. And he has a good friend of his Steve Franklin, who's going to join us in a minute. And Kevin, thanks for being with us. Say hi.

Kevin Davis01:08

Hey, Ray, thanks so much for having me again. This has been a lot of fun. And I'm really excited about the conversation we're gonna have today.

Ray Loewe01:16

Yeah, you know, and I want to build on something you and I did a special podcast and extra one because we wanted to focus on knowing what you want, and how important it is to being one of the luckiest people in the world. Because if you don't know what you want, you don't know where you're going. And if you don't know where you're going, you can't design the life that you want. And what we found is that those people who truly are lucky, are able to redesign their lives constantly, no matter what life throws at that. And, here were five factors that keep coming up. And we're going to explore some of these with Steve Franklin. But one is purpose. They all have a Purpose Driven Life. They know who they are, they know where they're going from that standpoint. They have a mission, they're involved with helping others is not just themselves. They have a series of values, they know what their values are. And every time they have to make a decision, they go back to their values. They know what they're good at, and where their passions lie. And they don't do things that aren't going to keep them exciting and interested. And last but not least I and this is the most important I think that culminates in everything at the end of the day, they want to like their day. And that doesn't mean that everything goes perfect in the day, but it does mean that they get joy out of having achieved. And Kevin before you introduce Steve, I have a quick story I want to tell. Okay, I'm a competitive swimmer. And I was down at the National Senior Games in Birmingham, Alabama about I guess is about three years ago now. And after I did my swimming thing, I'm wandering around and I see this guy, and he's carrying six medals around with him. And what's important is that five of them were gold, and one was silver. And I later quite a haul, yeah, quite a haul and more important. You'll see. When I got a chance to meet John and talk to him. I found out that he won his medals in the 100 to 104 age group. Wow. Yeah. This leads into what Steve Frankel is going to talk about. The interesting thing is at age 103, he won his medals in the shot put, the javelin, the discus, the hammer throw, and you know, I can't even pick these things up. And he lost one of that to a crummy 101-year-old whippersnappers. Yeah. And you know, when I came out of that experience, I thought about two things. I mean, first of all, is if I'm lucky enough to live to be 100. Am I going to be the 100-year old that's winning medals in and out celebrating with his friends? Or am I going to be the 100-year-old sitting in a wheelchair in a nursing home? And then the second revelation is, you know, I think there's a really good chance that many of us will live to be 100. And so what are you going to do with the rest of your life? How are you going to make it count? Are you just going to sit on the golf course and wile away your time? So Kevin, why don't you introduce Steve, and we know that Steve introduced a whole bunch of people over 100 so he can comment on my story?

Kevin Davis04:37

Yeah, thanks. Well, you know, Ray, it's great to have Steve Franklin, Steve and I go back a number of years. We worked together for a number of years and had a lot of fun doing that. He is and for those of our listeners who have heard me talk about barbecue before. Steve is he's my barbecue mentor. He is the one who taught me how to  smoke and just got me down a path that has been so much fun in life. So I'm sure we'll have to talk about some of that along the way. But you know, Steve kind of falls into that category of what's I term a renaissance person. He's done a number of things. But never just the normal way that this idea of why not go out and talk to people who have gained great wisdom by living life started a number of years ago. And so Steve, thanks so much for being with us. today. It's great to have you on the podcast.

Steve Franklin05:35

Ah, Kevin, and Ray. Thank you what an honor really is, Ray, it's good to hear your voice. And again, it's been a while but golly, great to be on your program. Well, I gained a Ray, yeah, by the way, I'll bet my bank account, you'll be one of those centenarians still swimming laps well into your hundreds.

Ray Loewe05:53

Well, you know, it doesn't matter whether I make it to 100 or not, but I'm certainly not going to shut off life. Making up my mind that I'm not going to make it there.

Steve Franklin06:04

It's a good goal to have. I mean, it's just got me started this adventure. Her goal was to live to be 120. I had lunch with her on her 107th birthday, she died not too long after that, hey, she made 107 out of 120. Good for her, she said, Look, it's just a good goal doesn't matter whether you make or not, it's a good goal.

Ray Loewe06:19

Yeah, so  tell us a little bit about your Emory University, I think, if you're on the faculty then, but you had this project and this goals, so once you refresh my memory on what you did.

Steve Franklin06:33

I was at Emory, actually, a couple of times, I was a tenured professor there for a number of years and went out and say, to see if I could do what I taught, you know, remember the old saying those who can't teach. So I want to make sure I could do what I taught. And I did was in business, went back as the associate dean of the business school and later I was involved in the industry in the financial services industry. And that's really where I got the idea of interviewing all these people, you know, you've got all these financial seminars, Ray? You've been to plenty of them, they'd have the economist talk about, or the economy or a banker talk about interest rates or something. And I got to think, got so bored with all of that. And I happened to sit down with a woman one day who was 94. At the time, I thought she was 70. And she invited me to 100 birthday party six years from then. And she said I'm serious. I said, Okay, great. And I kind of forgot about it. Six years later, she called me and said, Hey, I'll be 100 next week, her name is Katherine Durnell. Are you coming to my party, I said, I'm coming. She was in Lincoln, Nebraska, got on a plane, flew out there, interviewed her, danced with her, dined with her, laughed with her we just had a ball. And I got to thinking as a professor, having done a lot of research, I said, you know, shame on me, if I don't collect the wisdom of her and many other centenarians and share it with the younger generation, does man to the young, younger generation need to hear this wisdom. But that's what started at all, I just started to interview people. And over, over about eight years traveling all over the country, I interviewed I videotaped over 225 centenarians and dozens of other phone call conversations. And then we surveyed about a total of about 550, asking them to fill out a lengthy questionnaire. So from that, you know, came up with a book called celebrate 100 centenarians secrets to success in life and business. And so it's just was a wonderful journey, learn so much about their thoughts and wisdom, about money, about work, about life, about politics, about family, you name it.

Ray Loewe08:19

Incredible. You know, and I know when you gave that presentation for a group of my clients, it was just so motivating. And all of a sudden, it just opened up this horizon of saying, you know,you got to think about the future, and you got to make it count. Right. So, you know, tell us a story or two about some of the more interesting people that you ran into, and what they're thinking about. You got it, you got a couple-three hours. I'll give you a couple. The short version.

Steve Franklin08:52

Let me give you a quick context, Ray, you know, as I did this with your group, too, you may recall, and when I always start these presentations, I'll say, I want everybody to get a number in their mind to what age do you think you will live? To what age do you think you will live? And I get a number that I will call on people? What do you and the average number across all of America, Cali several 10s of 1000s people I spoke to is 85? Most of most people have in their mind, the average is I think I'll make it 85. And then I qualify that say now let me ask a question. If you were healthy can still swim laps or rent walk or whatever. And if you're financially well off enough to live, you know, a lifestyle you would like to how is how long would you like to live? Well, of course, 99% of people want to live to be 100 or more. So that's a good context. I think again, hundreds of good goal to have. But golly, I could just go Let me I mentioned a couple of First of all, Walter Bruning at the time. He was according to the Guinness Book of World Records the longest are the oldest man in the world. He was 114 at the time. Throughout the Great Falls, Montana spent the day with Walter. He woke up every morning very early, got on a suit and tie came down to This wonderful senior home that he was living in, would have breakfast, go over his mail, walk down to the bank, come back, have lunch, and he went up at two o'clock every day. And that was it. I mean, e only ate two meals a day and he listened to talk radio, the rest of the day, went to bed about eight o'clock. Well, when he turned 114 is the world's oldest man, of course, the governor of the state got hold of it, and said, and so he goes over to the house at about 3:20 in the afternoon. They call up and say, Walter, the governor is here he wants to see he said, I don't see anybody after two o'clock. They said but Walters, the governor, he said, Tell the governor, I don't see anybody after two o'clock, come back tomorrow. The governor went back to the Capitol. He came back the next day before two o'clock. So I love that. But another quick one on Walter. I asked Walter what he did. He was in the railroad business for 50 years. They made him retire 65. He hated to retire. He hated to retire. And so he said, so I kept working here in Great Falls. I did work for nonprofits. And he was an accountant and financial kind of guy, he said, but in 99, I decided I need to quit doing two things. So what was that? He said, Well, I decided I need to quit working. I need to quit smoking. He gave up smoking at 99 two packs of lucky strikes every day. He said, but I think quitting early has contributed to my longevity. I'll tell everybody, if it goes smoke, make sure you start knocking off at 99 or whatever. But Walter was a great guy. Just just. And he had a blog. He started a blog at 112. Ray, think about that. He started blogging at 112. At 114. You could get on the blog and ask Walter any question. And then he had an opinion about everything. So one of my real heroes in that group. Another lady, let's see Mary Tyler. She was the world's oldest living Girl Scout lived in Southern California. Marian's name was Marian Tyler and at 88. She did a 45-minute video called Marianatics. And where it was kind of like yoga and exercise or whatever at 88 gave me a copy of the DVD. And at the time, I was probably what 60 something. I went home and it wore me out, you know, but she was going strong at 104 living in her own home gardening in the back, just one of the world's oldest living Girl Scout at the time. So again, just a wonderful lady. Oh my goodness, one of the questions I asked is this is important for your listeners, which I think is to your point, right of having a purpose I and one of the questions I asked him, I said if you had your life to live over again, would you have liked to have done something different than what you do? And they have, they had done all kinds of things, and a lot of jobs that you and I might consider quote-unquote, mundane 82% of them said no, I would have done the exact same thing. I loved what I did. And so loving what you do, I think is a real key to longevity, I really, really believe that. They just they slowly you know 18%  saying Yeah, I'd like to maybe been a radio talk show host like you or a financial adviser or a pilot or an astronaut or something like that. But 82% of them actually loved what they did. Another question I asked I thanks very important for your listening audience is this. I said if you had your life to live over again, what is one or two things you wish you had done more of? What's a couple of things you wish you had done more. And the number one by far was they said, I wish I had traveled more. I wish I had gone to more places in the country. In the world, I could have. I had the money to I had the health too. But I just was lethargic. I didn't set goals and put it on my bucket list and go do it. The number two behind that was I wish I had read more or learned more not gotten more college degrees. But I just wish I had read more books, read more magazines, which had gone to more classes to learn things in which it tied perfectly with what I used to tell my students and Emery Ray and Kevin, I said, Look, you and I are a composite of three things in life, the books we read, the people we meet, and the places we go. That's what we're made up of the books we read, the people we meet, and the places we go. So do as much of all three as you can. And the centenarians nail that when I asked him if you could be more and lived your life over again, do more. They both said they wish they travel more and read more books or articles or whatever. So I think it's very important  for your audience to know.

Ray Loewe14:51

Yeah, you know, let me turn this around a little bit. So you did all these interviews. It was part of a project you were doing. I don't know what you're motivation was for doing that at the time. But you obviously personally benefited from these interviews and meetings. So when you look at things and all the people that you talk to, how did this affect your life and where you're going in your life?

Steve Franklin15:18

Yeah. Well, you know, I've always kind of been a goal setter, but it really had me it really one of the things that is really Catherine Brunel was the one that really got I set a goal to be 120. Kevin knows that you may remember that. That's my goal. And it really is a good goal to have. I mean, it comes down to Janet here. She said, Genesis six, three, it says, everybody, we live in eight or 900 years. And if you read the Old Testament book of Genesis, it says, My spirit will continue with humankind for 120 years. She said, Look, I don't care whether I'm making it on not, it's a good goal to have God said it, I believe it I'm going to go for and she made it to 107. So I thought it was kind of cool, mixing a little bit of biblical theology in with a lifetime goal of life expectancy. So my goal is 120. So it because I had always thought about, it'd be nice to live to be 100. But now I have a very definite goal that I want. And I tell everybody, I know that my goal. is to live to be 120. That's the goal. And unlike Katherine, it doesn't matter whether I make it or not, but it's a darn good goal to have. That's one thing. The second thing I learned was that they were masters, they were masters at managing stress. You know, that wonderful Serenity Prayer, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference. They are masters of embracing that prayer because the only thing you can change is yourself, you can't change anybody else. And so, most all, and by the way, they live through some pretty stressful times in life, if you think about it. World War One, they lived through the Great Depression, they lived through World War Two. I mean, these people did not live stress-free, free lives, but they really, they really learned to just manage stress very well. And it's really helped me a lot to just realize it you know, there's really nothing is really that big a deal. Another thing it did financially speaking is, is and when I asked them, you know, one of the things about giving us your wisdom about money, you know, you all have you lived through the Great Depression. And they were all in teenagers or young or in their 20s a number of them as they were living through the depression. One lady said, she said, I live by the three Do's make do, do without, and do-over. Make do, do without, and do-over. So I think I probably learned to be a bit more frugal myself a bit more sensitive to being a little random  with my money. They all say said pay cash. They hated that that was a nasty four-letter word to centenarians. They hated debt, you know, most all of them were debt, all of them were debt-free, very few, even a very few pay for anything. Except for with cash. And so, I sort of go by that, mantra now I've got an I'm debt-free, you pay for almost everything cash, pay off our credit cards at the end of every month. So I have no debt so that I don't live with that stress. And think about if you live without any debt, most of your life, you're going to be a lot less stressed and which may contribute to your longevity. Another thing they taught me was, and Kevin knows this, I've really had about 16 careers. And they because they all said they loved what they did and, and I have always when I got bored doing something, I went and did something else. And I've always loved what I've done. And I've told people I said, Look, if you're loving what you do, you have eight hours of your day is lousy. The other eight hours a day that you're awake are gonna be wonderful. But if you're loving what you do eight to 10 hours a day, probably the other eight or 10 hours a day are really gonna be fine. So I've really pursued that I've always done what I've enjoyed doing and what I quite enjoy doing. Like you said some of that mundane days, but I've always stayed focused on enjoying what I do. So those are some very practical personal. And, and man I am traveling, all I can. Now two years ago, my wife and I celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary, we did a 44 day around-the-world trip. We went from Atlanta, the ship to Japan to China to Hong Kong to Cambodia to Vietnam to Singapore to India to Dubai. You name it, man. So we're going to see all of this Earth that we can before we get slapped in the face with a shovel.

Ray Loewe15:19

Yeah, that's cool. You know one other quick story and then I want to get back to your stuff. Sandy and I were in Antarctica a few years ago and we met a couple of down there that one of the days didn't come on one of our side trips that we went on to and it's an expensive trip so everybody does everything. And the short version of it is they said you know, we put off taking this trip too long, not realizing that we have to be physically healthy to do some things. And we, we didn't have the money we needed, we saved the money. Now we have all the money when we want, we can't walk up the hill to see the penguins. And it's so significant to do what you can when you can, you know, what have you changed? Now, you've gone through this career at Emory where you were doing all this research, what are you doing now?

Steve Franklin20:28

Well, it's great. I finished working for money, let's just say eight and a half years ago, you know, finished up in the financial services business we did four successful rates and hung it up. And I had a wonderful ministry called North Point ministries, they that it's a it's an interesting organization, it has eight or 10 churches in the Atlanta area, but it supports probably 75, all types of nonprofit ministries throughout the Atlanta area, and all throughout the United States in about six or seven foreign countries. And so and this was really neat that the Lead Pastor of that organization a guy named Andy Stanley he and the executive pastor said, you know, we do a great job helping people who are struggling with finances, you know, the ones that are really you know, surviving, struggling, we've got all kinds of great resources to help them get out of debt, get on a budget, pay off credit cards, you know, all of those sort of things. But we do nothing, we do nothing. For people who are in that, let's call it that cert, that that that stable to surplus stage of life that you and I are in, right? I mean, we're in a stable surplus age you say, we assume all those people fine they got plenty of money, they're gonna retire, they got no issues and whatever. And we did nothing to really focus on them to help them be let's just say, enjoy their retirement more, be more strategic with their generosity, he said, I'd like you to come on board and see if we can develop some environment, some irresistible environments, that would help these people be more strategic in their stable surplus years, that second half of their life. So I spend my time now with a lot of people, most of them I would say are in their late 50s, 60s and early 70s. But a goodly number of people in their young people in their 30s talking about once you get to that finish line, whatever your retirement goal is all those sorts of things. How can you be more strategic in your generosity to give away money so that you really do jokingly say die with a smile on your face? A good friend of mine, Ron Blue says do you're living while you're, do your giving while you're living. So you're knowing where it's going, you know, we're not telling you that there's going to be a meeting about your money. And either you can be present or you won't be. So let's get strategic about being generous with what you got now in the stable surplus years. And so I do a lot of that do one on one meetings, I do a lot of group meetings, I bring in various speakers to talk about that. Just really, really a fulfilling kind of self-actualizing chapter of my life.

Ray Loewe22:57

Oh, cool. So we're, unfortunately near the end of our podcast time. So do you have any final comments you want to make before we have to break off?

Steve Franklin23:08

Ah, you know, pay cash for everything. Get out of debt, love what you do. And if you're not finding what it is that you're doing? And just be nice to people,

Ray Loewe23:18

and sharing your wisdom in some way, maybe some money is a good thing too, isn't it? Absolutely. Cool. Kevin, any last comments that you have?

Kevin Davis23:28

So I just got to say, you know, along with this, do things now right and enjoy some of what you have now. For anyone coming to Atlanta reach out to Steve or I because you got to come to Das barbecue. There's a couple of them now. Steve's son, Steven started them legitimately. And I'm not just saying this legitimately, probably the best barbecue joint in Atlanta. And that's saying something. But you know, enjoy life a bit. Bring a friend. Let's go have a fun conversation about your passions. And did you notice the theme this common thread over the last three or four podcasts Ray of people who, who didn't talk to each other ahead of time, which I think's interesting about how when you're others-focused, whether it's giving of your time or giving of your money? It seems like there's an immense amount of joy that comes from that. Isn't that interesting? Right? Yeah. 

Ray Loewe24:27

And we're gonna dwell on that going forward. You know, Kevin, you've been a great co-host. I really appreciate your time and your energy. And you know, our next podcast, we're gonna have another co-host. And his name is Jeff Wuorio. He's a ghostwriter. And he's helping me write my next book as we speak. So that'll open up some interesting stories and some interesting opportunities to, to search into life. So everybody, thanks so much for being with us. Thanks, Steve Franklin. You know You got me excited about older age and by the way, I'm going to live to be 154. That's a good number. A good number I like that. All right, great, everybody. Have a great day. And we'll see you all again next week. Thank you much.

Kris Parsons25:18

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host of Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world. 

Podcast Co-host:  Kevin Davis:  [email protected]

Podcast guests:  Lance and Penny Davis:  [email protected]

Transcription:

Kris Parsons00:02

Welcome to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do it too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.

Ray Loewe00:16

Good morning, everybody. This is the lively host from we're sitting in the podcast studios and in wildfire podcasting, and Woodbury, New Jersey, our engineer here, Taylor is here to make sure that everything runs smoothly. And we can focus on just talking to our guests. And we have wonderful guests today. So Kevin, say hi to everybody. Kevin is our co-host for this month.

Kevin Davis00:44

Hi, everybody, Ray, thanks so much. It's a privilege and honor to be back here. You bought me back again, we're on a roll here?

Ray Loewe00:52

Well, because we're doing fun stuff, and Kevin and I did a great podcast a couple of weeks ago. And it focused on five things that are kind of the theme for this month. And let me bring, let me kind of recap those four. So the luckiest people in the world that have to know what they want. Now, our definition, the luckiest people in the world are those people who actually take the time to personally redesign their own lives, and live them under their own terms. And if you don't know what you want, how are you ever going to design your own life. So we found that there are five key characteristics of why some people, the lucky ones, are able to design their own life, and then redesign it when things change. And we certainly get a lot of that today. And they're able to pivot and they're able to stay on type of life. And they're able to enjoy it and get the most out of it. So the five things are the luckiest people are purpose-driven. They know why they're here. And they remind themselves why it's so important to go back to purpose. They're mission-driven. They're, interested in other people, they want to help other people and their best when they help other people. Whenever they get into trouble, they go back to their values, they have a list of values and might be family, it might be faith, it might be a whole lot of other things. But their values are important. And they base their decisions on what they want on their values. They throw in excellence, okay. And you know, we're all good at some things. And life is more fun when you're working on things that you're good at. And it gives you the best chance of being able to do things for other people. And last but not least, they come back to the fact that at the end of everything when they put all these things together, they want to like their day. So, Kevin, we beat those up a while ago. And we're going to talk more over here. So why don't you introduce Lance and Penny, and give us a little background and start us off on this wonderful world of exploring life?

Kevin Davis03:13

Sure, well, so it is. It's an honor and I say this with a bit of trepidation to have Lance and Penny Davis, my parents here, you know, Ray, you know, I love a good story. And I have a bunch of them. We're gonna have to be careful today with the funny stories because, for everyone I have, they probably have two or three about me. So but I'm gonna have to call you mom and dad. But so mom, dad, thanks so much for joining us today. Super excited to have you on the podcast here. That's okay. Okay, thank you.

Ray Loewe03:48

We don't want you to do that of all things. Don't mind your manners and misbehaving is part of the game. So let me start out with something you guys a big part of your life was you're both missionaries in Africa. Why don't you give us kind of the short version of what happened there, because that certainly created a foundation for where you're going.

Lance Davis04:12

Yeah, we were both teachers early on in life. And then we went to the States, and we went to a college, up in your neck of the woods. And then we went back to Africa as missionaries, and we were already there for about four years. And during that time, Kevin was about seven years old. So he went back with us and his early life was riding on a motorcycle behind me sitting on the backseat, and riding around the neighborhood, getting kids together and having them to our house so that we could have Bible storytimes and things like that, and then starting a church and he'd Sing with us. So it was an amazing time. We actually left Zimbabwe or it used to be Rhodesia came back to the states and went back to college. And that's where the rest of our life sort of sprang up in the northern part of the United States, but then in about 93, we didn't like the cold so much. Tell me why you think that is. We came down south  to Atlanta, Georgia, and we've been here since 1993. And are absolutely loving it. 

Ray Loewe05:26

And go ahead, Penny.

Penny Davis05:29

I was just gonna say I'm not I don't think we're doing a whole lot very differently. Because I think it's all wrapped up in what you said, we're living in our sweet spot. And so we just take our sweet spot everywhere we go.

Ray Loewe05:39

Okay, so you guys actually formed a school?

Kevin Davis05:44

We did. Yes, that's correct. Ray doesn't everybody?

Ray Loewe05:51

Well, you know, some of us don't think that far ahead. But give us an idea of what the school is and what it's about because I think this is going to drive the rest of our conversation.

Kevin Davis06:03

Well, let me add a little context before you answer that because I'd love this as part of the answer. You didn't just form a school, you waited until you were at a stage of life where your kids were grown and off and married, where, you know, Ray and I met in the financial industry. And so a lot of what we did professionally was helping people prepare for this thing called retirement. And under a normal plan, you would have been 10 years away from that. And so rather than coasting into the retirement years, 25 years ago, you guys decided to start a school. So there's some context to explain it.

Penny Davis06:43

Yes, of course. So I mean, really, the whole essence of what we need to be doing is building into other people's lives. And we'd like kids and kids are more palatable and more pliable. So that was the best thing to do. And that's our training. So I love your five points because we definitely are purpose-driven. But our purpose is based on our mission. And you know what, that's what we're doing every day of our lives. And so we come home exhausted loving it, and we go back the next day. And what's that word? retirement? I don't compute.

Ray Loewe07:18

Thank you for that. So if you don't mind, can you share with everybody your approximate ages at this point?

Lance Davis07:26

Oh, yes everybody knows. I'm 29. Again, every single year reminds the kids that and it's a test question at the end of the year. How old is they don't call her Penny? They call her Mrs. D. How old is Mrs. D? And if you get 29, you get extra credit.

Penny Davis07:44

So, therefore, as a school teacher, my answer to your question is that if you go back to the age that most people are retiring at 65? Or will we breezed past that by 10 years? So you can work that one out?

Ray Loewe07:57

That's higher math. Okay, so I need to go to so I can learn that, he can do that. And I think this is one of the purpose of things is, is you guys have just kind of taken this thing called retirement. pushed it out of the way. And you're living life under your terms.

Lance Davis08:19

Yes, yeah, it almost seems re it almost seems like we are loving it more now doing what we do now than in the past. And I don't know how that computes. The sweet spot really is something that we look forward to every day. And sometimes an average year, we'll experience that sweet spot a couple of times, hugely, like when we come back from an expedition to the Golden Isles of Georgia, with 100 kids or something like that. And we have seen what changes have been made in their lives. And a parent calls us up and said, What do you do to my kid? And we say, Well, what do you mean? And they say, Well, he's come back changed. He helps me in the house. He takes out the garbage. He's civil to me, doesn't bad mouth, his siblings and we say Good, good. That's the sweet spot, hearing all that stuff. Cool.

Kevin Davis09:19

You know, Ray. I want to connect the dots here for some of our listeners who might have been listening last week when we talk with Joe Colavito. You know, he gave an interesting definition for purpose. And I don't know if I got it exactly verbatim, but he said an individual's unique design for how you can help improve the status of others. And you know, we talked about how it was others-focused. And we're hearing that same theme here today, which I think is pretty interesting. Could you guys share a bit about you have this program that you've developed a Living Science to Stem Academy? You call it a servant leader program? Talk a bit about that, because I think that ties in so much to this idea of building into the next generation helping others, being others-focused.

Penny Davis10:15

Okay, so I think the first thing I want to say is that you do gain wisdom as you get a little older each year. I mean, we've made lots of mistakes. But what are you going to do with that wisdom bury it? No, you have to take that wisdom. And it's got to be pulled down to the lowest common denominator. So wisdom continues so sweetheart how do we do that? What are we doing?

Lance Davis10:35

Well, one of the things that Mrs. D has always had in the classroom, is her philosophy of education is this, it should be preparation for life. And so our kids are servant leaders. For instance, in the high school, ninth through 12th graders, they are taught the tips, T I P S, which stands for target, which is your vision, influence, you influence others and others influence you and passion, always find your passion and go with it. And then the last one is servant leadership. And those are the hallmarks of our servant leaders. And the last one is we teach them how to be leaders, by helping them to serve others.

Penny Davis11:18

Then, of course, they make mistakes. And so that's a wonderful teaching model right there. I think the big thing here is that we do this with encouragement, not negative and put-downs, we are teaching them how to build others up and we're trying to build them up, we actually have a rule, no put-downs. And we also have another saying which you'll love Ray, there will be change. And I just they've learned to hold their hands off and say they will be changed. Because in any given day, especially when we're on mission on the Golden Isles on the beaches with 100 to 150 kids. I mean, doesn't everybody do that when they're supposed to be retiring it's such fun? The river changes, the tide changes, and they have to know how to react on the dime and turn around now they're not perfect. We're not perfect, but boy, they're amazing, and how much they are learning?

Lance Davis12:10

Yes, but here's the thing, if you start doing that with a ninth-grader, and he experiences the wisdom of changing and maybe how difficult it is to change or how hard it is, then he does that again in the 10th grade. And then in the 11th. By the time he gets to the 12th grade, he's learned that aspect of life, right, and he's preparing himself for the future, there will be change. And another saying that we've always used is there's no growth in a comfort zone and no comfort in a growth zone. That's one of the things we teach them. It's purposeful teaching.

Penny Davis12:49

And we use it, we use something else as we really working with them. And this is for the parents as well. Well, it starts with us, we use a term form and function. See, what you were saying is, you have to make changes. And yes, that's your form, the form of education since we first started all those bunkies years ago has changed. But the function, our goals, you know, what do we want coming up the other end, that hasn't changed? It's just the road to get there. That's changed. So if kids can learn this, they're going to be successful.

Kevin Davis13:22

Yeah, okay, so let's have a fun story to give an example of what some of that could look like. Because most of the people listening, have no idea what an expedition is. And I'll frame it, it's this crazy, thought that you put 100 plus kids into a whole convoy of cars, you drive five or six hours, down to the Golden Isles, you know, on Georgia. And then you spend the next five days teaching kids out on the beaches and in the marshes. But the weather doesn't always cooperate. And then I remember there was one year where we had tsunami-like weather flooding. And you had to have these kids change the entire agenda on the fly because you couldn't go outside. I mean, it was torrential that year.

Penny Davis14:14

Actually was like Noah's flood that that year was really bad. There was a second one. Yeah.

Kevin Davis14:20

And the ark wasn't quite finished. I remember.

Penny Davis14:25

So actually, that's amazing that you say that because we have the forethought to say what if the weather isn't cooperating. And we've been watching the progress of the weather report, and we just said, well, just in case. So we have teams, and there were eight teams that year. So instead of just having eight rotations, we actually created boxes the day before we left because my science team is well trained. I said here, here's what we're going to be doing run for the equipment, get the boxes, and we packed up eight additional boxes. And the place where we stay was kind enough to give us a second hall and we just simply arranged the kids inside doing the most fun things. We've got videos of amazing things happening. If they'd known what we were doing in their halls, they might have charged us double that year, but they never did find out. So we have lots of fun. 

Lance Davis15:14

But that's what we lead them to we let the kids know there will be change. And you've got to be proactive. And you've got to say, What if? What's your plan B. And now the kids all know, what are we going to take for Plan B? So we look at it very carefully a couple of days before we go. And we say now it's not needed. We don't need that much. We'll only take a few things. But now they have a principle. Well, if

Penny Davis15:41

we travel in cars, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, Kevin. We have such funny stories about the cars, they're all numbered, and everybody's in small convoys so that it's a safety issue? And this one year we just lost a whole convoy of I think was four or five cars. And we're like, oh, my goodness, we're not allowed to lose kids. I mean, the parents is fun, and we lose. We can't lose the kids. And finally, we got and this was before everybody had their cell phones. And we were using actually CB radios, CB radios. We finally got this one lady who was kind of meeting this up. She says, No, no, really. I'm in the convoy. I'm following Mr. Parker. Silence, honey, Mr. Parker is not on this trip. We don't know who you are following, but you got all our kids stop and turn around.

Ray Loewe16:34

Go ahead, Kevin. Where's

Kevin Davis16:36

So I was gonna say it's interesting, Ray? You know, you see the thread of all these different conversations we're having. One of the things that you and I have talked about is how, you know, you have a plan, but then life throws you a curveball. You know, my famous quote about Mike Tyson's comment, everyone has a plan to get punched in the mouth. And what we've observed, as you know, the luckiest people in the world have learned how to pivot. It's not that they've got this airtight plan. It's that they know how to pivot when things get kind of crazy. And I love that. You know, this servant leadership program is trying to teach kids that skill. You know, we're here trying to encourage adults to exercise that skill. Right, Ray.

Ray Loewe17:12

Well, yeah, but you know, why not drop it down to kids? I mean, why shouldn't somebody in their 30s and their 20s enjoy life more? Why shouldn't they find their purpose and know their mission and life in and figure out where they're going? And then take that all through life? Too many of us don't find it until we get old.

Penny Davis17:51

Yeah, yeah, that's sad. That's sad. Now, you know, COVID hit us pretty hard. And so last year, we weren't able to have an expedition because we were all sort of locked down as a school, we were allowed to have a certain number of people. And so we just said, well, we're not canceling this. The kids have looked forward to this the whole year, we said, we will have a virtual expedition. And we were called mad, but that's okay. Because we know we are. It was so much fun our servant leaders, we trained them to put together bags of equipment, so that we could be online, showing these kids and having fun with these kids online. And they could be at home actually doing little labs and having fun. And we said, All right, how are we going to get these there. So we got convoys of kids driving out to all over creation because people come from far away. And we hand-delivered sacks of lots of fun things, t-shirts, and all the equipment. And we actually had an amazing experience during a virtual expedition.

Lance Davis18:48

Yeah, at that time, there were six teams, and we have six separate rooms, and they were all on zoom. And the seven leaders were in groups of two to four, and our science team, kids who are normally the 10th graders, they were running from room to room with different sets of equipment, because our seven leaders were actually doing the experiments in front of the kids and watching the kids do the experiments at home. It was just an amazing time.

Ray Loewe19:17

And that comes from the fact that you have a well-defined purpose and a well-defined mission and you know what you want to accomplish? So you're gonna get there somehow, someway even though the world is not necessarily going to let them take the path easy. How many kids do you have in your school?

Lance Davis19:38

Oh, 150 Plus, it goes between 150 and 200. And that's kindergarten through 12th grade. 

Ray Loewe19:44

And the whole purpose of this is to build this kind of sense of leadership into kids and experience so that there'll be better people and they know where they're going.

Lance Davis19:55

Yeah, Ray part of our mission statement is we want our kids to become leaders so that they can drive truth and godly values into society. That's actually the last part of our purpose statement. So we keep that in mind all the time. And the how question comes at, well, how are we going to do that now? And last year? So how are we going to do that in this particular situation? Well, we came up with some ideas.

Penny Davis20:22

And I think to add to that, being an educator and having been one for more years, and most people, most of our parents are old. And that's a fact. You know, what, you can't just throw information at kids and expect them to be excited about doing something with that information. So we are very, very big on doing hands-on things, and getting the kids excited to want to learn if they don't want to learn, there's no purpose and trying to show them the excitement that's outside of the school. One has to get them saying I want this they have to be hungry. You know, there's a saying that you can take a horse to water and you can't make a drink. That's not true. Feed it salt, it'll want to drink.

Ray Loewe21:06

That's mean and nasty, but it works, doesn't it? The, you know, take a minute and talk a little bit about the sweet spot that came up several times. And the sweet spot is what you guys are living. I think I know, I'm sure everybody else is living it too. But you keep talking about you find the sweet spot in life. What do you mean? How does it drive you? I don't even know how to ask the question any better than that?

Lance Davis21:37

Well, the sweet spot I've described is at the end of an expedition, I'm exhausted. And I relax. And I say wow, that, to me is the best expression in the world. Wow. And we try to put the wow into learning. But when it happens to you, it's even better. And so when I see results, that helps me, my sweet. I'm doing what I love to do now, even though I get seems like every year I get a little bit more tired. But that doesn't matter. That's him, that's not Mrs. D.

Penny Davis22:09

So I think you know, when you talk about sweet spot, to me, it is getting to the end of the day and saying, I am so thrilled with what I've been able to impart unto others but much more than that. I'm so thrilled at what I see them giving back. Because we're not meant to live forever. And so we need to make sure that we can share our values and share how to have a mission and how to be purpose-driven so that these kids grow up into adults that want to give back. That's so satisfying. That's a sweet spot for us. 

Lance Davis22:41

Yeah, Ray. Here's another thing, often parents look at us and they say, Wow, once again, they say this is the best environment for our kids because they see you two. And I'm thinking, how does that compute? Well, you two are still together, you two to fight together, you are doing everything together, you're going on trips, and you're upholding each other, you're giving the kids a visual picture of what their lives could be. And we hold hands all the time to by the way. Oh, yeah. And once in a while, we will kiss, you know that peck on the cheek, and the kids love it. And we will say we have a license you don't. Yeah. Cool. 

Ray Loewe23:23

So can I say, Wow, as a result of this podcast, because I got so psyched up listening to you. And you know, first of all, you're not letting age get in the way at all. You're focusing on life, not about age, and you're making a difference, and you've got a purpose. And that purpose gets thrown roadblocks, and you seem to get around them pretty well. What a great lesson in life. 

Kevin Davis23:48

You know, Ray, when they talk about they get a little tired, and they imply they might slow down, I got to give context. People in their 40s can't keep up with them. So when they say, they, get a little tired, I laugh because I'm looking at you know, all of the people laying on the ground with their tongues hanging out. But I think that goes to, you know, passion. And purpose matters infinitely more than age. When you're in your sweet spot. When you're purpose-driven. You're doing something that gives you energy. Others will look around and go How do you keep going? And what do you mean, how do you not? And all of a sudden age is immaterial. It's more about, you know, doing what you love. And I want to touch on one last thing because we're running out of time, Ray? This the fifth thing that you had mentioned at the very beginning that we've observed, the luckiest people in the world tend to have they like their day. Yes. Does like your day mean everything's great and easy or is there a different definition of what that might mean? 

Penny Davis25:00

Are you asking us? I think liking your day means that you fulfilled a purpose. And you've taken action in the hard things, and you survived all the attacks.

Lance Davis25:12

Yeah, maybe that's easy. Just that's the best way of putting it. We survived. Yeah.

Ray Loewe25:19

Yeah, but at the end of the day, you have joy. And I think Kevin's right. I mean, life is not simple. Life isn't smooth. Everything doesn't work right every day. But at the end, if you can sit back and say, Wow, yeah, I'm that word is now part of my library. Okay. Cuz I there's no better way to say it. It's just Wow. Okay. Yeah, we give you permission, you can use it. Well, thank you much. And we have time. Do you have any quick last comments that you want to make before we break off here?

Penny Davis25:58

Just very, very quickly, I think that what I want, I want to say and I hope that people really hear this is such a funny little quip. When you aim at nothing, you hit it every time.

Lance Davis26:11

Yeah. See, that's the first. The target is what we teach kids, we teach them. Here's your target for this year. Oh, sorry, wrong statement, what is your target for this year? And so we don't give them a target. We force them to make a little target, whatever it is, because if they don't buy into it, then they're not going to shoot for it. If it's my target, they'll just say, No, I don't think passive it's got to be their target. And then we teach them how to go with passion. And often it's because their friends lift them up and their friends encourage them.

Ray Loewe26:51

Well, incredible. So you know, thank you so much for being with us. And we'll have to do this again because I think there's so much wisdom and enthusiasm in here. So we'll give you a little time to prepare for the next one. How's that? And then we'll do another Wow. Wow. We'll be around. Thank you, Ray. Well, thanks for being with us. And stay tuned, because next week, Kevin, and I will be back. And we'll be interviewing a young man by the name of Steve Franklin, who's interviewed a whole lot of people over the age of 100. And I think what you can see from our meeting with Lance and Penny today is to quit focusing on age and focus on living. And you just get all those extra years of all that extra excitement, and Lance and Penny. Thanks again, and I'm going to finish off with one word. Wow.

Kris Parsons27:49

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host of Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world. 

Guest Co-host:  Kevin Davis:  [email protected]

Podcast Guest:  [email protected]

Joe's Website:  https://www.gojourneylife.com/

Transcription:

Kris Parsons00:01

Welcome to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do it too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.

Ray Loewe00:15

Good morning, everybody. This is Ray Loewe. And I'm sitting here in scenic Woodbury, New Jersey, with our engineer Taylor, who's going to make sure that everything runs well today, as he always does. And we're going to be talking to a couple today of the luckiest people in the world. And if you remember correctly, the luckiest people in the world are those people who take the time to personally design their own lives. And then they live them under their own terms. And when you think about it, what could be better than to be able to take control of your own life and live it under your terms. There's no better way that I know of to make your life get better and better and better. And the name of our show is changing the rules and the luckiest people in the world often have to change a lot of the rules. You know, we've got a whole lot of rules put on us. And they accumulate from childhood all the way through adulthood, and the luckiest people in the world are able to sift through and sort through those rules and choose those that are important and significant to them. Because when you're living your life under somebody else's rules, you're not living your own life. So today, we're fortunate enough, we have Kevin Davis, co-host, and Kevin is our guest for this entire month. And Kevin and I did a couple of podcasts over the last couple of weeks. And Kevin, say hello to everybody.

Kevin Davis01:44

Ray, thanks so much for having me back. I mean, you never know after the last one, but it is an honor to be here co-hosting with you. And I'm excited about it.

Ray Loewe01:52

Oh, come on. The last one was a great podcast because you and I got a chance to talk a little bit about how the luckiest people in the world know what they want. And you know, you really can't design your own life unless you know what you want. And you and I were able to talk about a couple of these five points, and I'm going to bring up. The luckiest people in the world are able to design their own lives and to be able to float as life throws things at them. Because their lives are purpose-based. They're mission-based. They're values-based. And they're based on the excellence that they bring to the table with their skill levels. And the final thing is they kind of culminate in people being able to truly like their day. So, Kevin, you introduced me to this guy by the name of Colavito that we have on here today, a good number of years ago. And he's an extraordinary, extraordinarily interesting guy. So why don't you take a minute and introduce them to our guests, and then let's start putting him on the spot and seeing if we can get tips on how to get more meaning out of our lives.

Kevin Davis03:11

Well, super, thanks. So I'm really excited that we have Joe Colavito. With us today, Joe and I have known each other for years had the just the privilege and pleasure of working together at a company in the past. And you know, there's a lot of things I could say about Joe and his career. But maybe if we boil it all down, you know, Joe just loves people. And if you meet him, he's just one of those guys where you don't want that time to end. And I'm sure you're going to get some of that energy through the podcast today. So Joe, thanks so much for joining us today. It's great to have you here on the podcast.

Joe Colavito03:47

Hey, it's my pleasure, Ray. And Kevin, thanks for having me. And as you know, I love changing the rules.

Ray Loewe03:55

No, you love really beating up the rules, I think?

Joe Colavito04:00

Well as my old boss, who Kevin knows, yeah, Doug Buse used to say, I thought the rules were simply suggestions.

Kevin Davis04:09

They're not news to me.

Ray Loewe04:12

You know, I'm gonna have to get a t-shirt made up with that. The rules are simply suggestions. I think that's great. You know, let me start out from it. Because Colavito means full of life.

Joe Colavito04:25

Yes, it does. And some say that I'm full of life and others say that I'm full of it. Yeah.

Ray Loewe04:32

Well, both are pertinent for this podcast today. So, let's kind of get into some of the stories that you have and some of the things that you can tell us about purpose. And I think that's probably the one thing that we ought to focus on today is because I know a lot of what your firm is based on and what you do in coaching people is to help them find out what their purpose really is so start the conversation for us, Joe.

Joe Colavito05:04

Yeah, and I think that you know, for the listener, I hope that this encourages you because you have a purpose. You can know what it is. And it's already been something you've been doing. You just didn't have the words to define it.

Kevin Davis05:22

So that's a wonderful opener, Joe. Unpack that for me. You're teasing me right now.

Joe Colavito05:30

Yeah, so I'm going to start with a high-level definition, and then I'll take it down to ground level. Does that work?

Kevin Davis05:36

Yeah, that'd be great. 

Joe Colavito05:37

Okay, so my high-level definition of purpose is that it's your reason for being and your built-in navigation system. So if you can clarify your purpose, you can simplify your path career in life, and you can amplify your fulfillment and impact. That's the high level. 

Ray Loewe05:57

Okay, so you have some examples of that. I think you gave us a couple of stories when we were talking before. Ah, I'm gonna pick on somebody Dennis.

Joe Colavito06:08

Yeah, so Dennis entered my life. Right when COVID was shutting down the world. I was introduced to him and you can't make this stuff up by a gentleman by the name of Joe Hope. And Joe Hope called Joe Colavito. So hope called full of life, and said, Hey, got a guy that is in a bit of a tough season. He's an amazing man, loves his wife, loves his four-year-old daughter. But he senses that he's lost a bit of his purpose and value. Because right after setting up his deer hunting stand in the middle of the night, he was riding his ATV back along the same path he had gotten thereon. And he woke up in the hospital unaware that the rain had washed out the road. And he was paralyzed from the waist down.

Ray Loewe06:56

Oh, wow. And this is full of hope. Right? 

Joe Colavito06:59

Well, this is Joe hope introduced me to Dennis right. And so Dennis basically is a great guy. But suddenly, the rules have changed. And the rules have not been changed by him. They've been changed by his physical condition, he can no longer do what he did, which was to scale ladders and be on roofs and fix HVAC systems. He actually Kevin was in one of the large class A office buildings in Atlanta that our former company used to own gotcha. Okay. What a small world how it comes back, right. And so here's the statement that changed everything for me, you know, and about this time last year, he literally said, so I just can't go find a job because I don't have the value that I had before. And I was able to look him in the eye virtually and say, Hey, Dennis, I need you to write this down. Your identity has not changed. Your purpose has not changed. And your value has skyrocketed. Do you know how many people are out there that needs somebody like you who's been through trauma and tragedy, but has learned to make a full comeback and experience life's full potential? How many people need you in their corner? You can do so much more for him than I can. Man, you're more valuable than I am? And I could sense him being reinflated. Yeah. So Wow. 

Ray Loewe08:34

So this is what you do for people or two people. Is that correct? Joe? 

Joe Colavito08:39

Yeah, I prefer four versus two. It sounds so victimized. 

Ray Loewe08:43

Well, sometimes, you know, we need to be done to Okay, just because we don't see the values on the table. And, and I think values and purpose are things that you have to search and find they just don't show up all the time, the way we would like to see them.

Joe Colavito09:03

Yeah, which actually Ray a great segue, before I forget, let me take you back to the ground level definition of purpose, which is why I can confidently say that everyone has one, you can know what it is, you can clearly define it and you can live it out. Okay. So purpose is an individual's unique design to improve the status quo for others. That's it. So everyone's making it complicated. They're talking about how you have to find it, they're attaching it to their work, you know, they're misdefining purpose, which is causing them to miss the fulfillment and impact that comes from purpose. So it's just an individual's unique design to improve the status quo for others. And Dennis can do that better. Having been through that trial, then it could before.

Kevin Davis09:49

Now, Joe, what's interesting to me, is that's a very others-centered statement. It's not about me, it's about what I can do for others. And I think that's very, very powerful.

Joe Colavito10:05

Yeah, and that's Kevin you're quick and you're sharp and so is Ray, right? That's the difference-maker when I focus on me, a, it's boring, be it can be quite, you know, depressing. And you can start to just kind of corkscrew yourself down into self-pity, depending on your circumstances. But when I'm always focused on others, and I'm trying to fulfill my purpose, then all I have to do no matter what was happening in COVID is reach out to one person that's hurting more than I am, and then lifting them up. And this is a principle when you lift others up, you rise with them.

Ray Loewe10:44

So we all ought to do right, we ought to be aware of the value of others, and we ought to be aware of what we can do for others and not what we can do for us.

Joe Colavito10:57

Absolutely. But the first thing you have to be aware of is how do you show up in the world? So what is your gift? So I'll share mine just because it might help. So my purpose is to encourage everyone to experience life's full potential. Now, wouldn't that make sense given that my last name is full of life? So I just want everyone to experience life's full potential. But that's not enough having that defined? Does the world no good? Does me no, good. So what I am and you guys are we're men of action, right? So what I do is I anchor that purpose with a promise. So I attach a promise that activates it and every conversation situation. And here's my promise. My promise is to never let you settle for less. Settle for less than what experiencing life's full potential. Whoops, we just looped around, and it starts to feel like the flywheel is going Whoosh.

Ray Loewe11:49

Yeah. So give us a couple more stories and examples. You know, Mr. De shows up every once in a while in your stuff.

Joe Colavito12:00

Yeah, well, you know, Mr. D is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and actually want to thank Steve Franklin, who I believe you've got coming up on your show. In a while. Dr. Steve Franklin had this brilliant idea to go interview 100 100-year-olds. And when he realized, you know what a large task that was I begged him to let me go out in the field with a video camera. And I ran into Mr. D. So Mr. D is the only person in the world that's ever looked up to me. That's of adult age. That's for the listener. That's because I'm five foot six, with shoes on, yeah. Okay, so Mr. D, I meet him in his, you know, assisted living home, I see his 12 by 12 room, very modest. With a couple of beautiful pieces of artwork on the wall, He leads me over to the general store that actually has his grandfather's general store sign hanging in it. And I watch him basically fill out a little yellow ledger, as, as the patron start to come in and buy, you know, little supplies or a coke or a candy bar. And at the end of the day, he's got $37.50 tallied up from the general store. And I asked him, so what do you do with that? And he says, Oh, I do what I've done my whole life. I give it away. I'm like, okay, back up for a second. Tell me more about your life. And he goes on to tell me about his father who was from Cuba, and a master cigar roller, and he moved to the plant in Tampa, which is where Mr. D grew up. And Mr. D used to shine shoes in front of the cigar factory. Brown ones were a nickel, black ones were a dime, have no idea why it was different. And at the end of the day, he would maybe have you know, $1 -$1.25 in his pocket, he would take it home to his mother and give it to her. And I asked, well, didn't you buy like an ice cream on the way home or a piece of candy or anything for yourself? He goes, No, I just got so much joy by giving it to my mother. That followed him all the way through when he had his first home and too many fruit trees in the backyard to eat all the fruit. He hung it in little bags on his neighbor's doorsteps. When he painted 84 pictures, he was a renaissance man. Later on in his later life. He painted 84 amazing oil paintings. There was one left in his room and two left in the store. Yes, he'd given the other 81 away. But the most amazing part of Mr. D's story. And the reason I share this last is what I want you to learn as a listener is we all should learn something from the way that Mr. D rolled. Yeah, sure. He rolled 200 cigars every day by hand. But the way he rolled was everything he received, he gave away freely. Oh, and by the way, his cigars were pretty good. There was this guy and Kevin, I might need, I lose my memory sometimes. He hand-rolled them he put them in a box he addressed it himself and he sent them off. The guy's first name was Winston and I never get the last name right?

Kevin Davis15:05

Wasn't even English dude. Yeah, he had something to do with the war. Church something right. When I Wins, Oh, yeah, it was Winston Churchill. Oh, yeah, that Winston.

Joe Colavito15:17

Yeah. So in addition to rolling cigars for Winston Churchill, he also had a number of other famous people that would come to the back gauges to smoke one with him. And so like you, Ray, he found his joy in getting to talk to interesting people every day.

Kevin Davis15:34

That, you know, you said something in there that's so profound, you know, that he shared, he found joy in giving. Wow, I mean, that's if you think of everyone wants joy, they want happiness, they want satisfaction. And he learned early on, Joy is in way more in giving than and getting, profound wisdom there.

Joe Colavito15:59

He just reminded me of something, Kevin, I'll keep it brief. Mr. D was so talented, in addition to the oil paintings, and as he was waiting for new patrons to come in, he would take you know, the plastic bag, we all get at the grocery store that we wad up and they take over our pantry or some other container. Yeah, His hands were so talented that he could take one of those bags. And while he was talking with you, without ever taking his eye off of you, he would fold it down to the size of a cigar and it would not move. That's amazing. And I was like, blown away. So while he's doing that, I'm like, in addition to painting, you know, is there anything else you did? He goes, Oh, yeah, I built my own house. I did the electrical. I did the plumbing. He says, but I always love to sing. I'm like, okay, I've only got three minutes of tape left. What can you sing for me? And he's saying it's a wonderful world. And it literally lit me up. Like I was at a concert, I'd paid $1,000 to be in the front row.

Ray Loewe16:56

Now how old was Mr. D? Where was he in the in a span of life here?

Joe Colavito17:02

He was okay. He was 105.

Ray Loewe17:05

Amazing. And so here he was 105. And he's still doing so he can give things away.

Joe Colavito17:13

He's waking up at 430 every morning to pop popcorn. And to make coffee so that when the store opens at 730, everything will have the smell and the look that he wants it to have and he'll be ready to serve right out of the gate. So 430 to 530. He preps goes back to bed for an hour gets up, does his prayers, and opens the store at seven every day at 105.

Ray Loewe17:36

Okay, so what other interesting people have you met along the way over here? That's an open-ended question. Yeah, I can see it with Dan 100 miler.

Joe Colavito17:52

You know, Dan's a common friend of Kevin, and I probably a worthwhile conversation. Yeah. You know, when I first met Dan, Kevin, he was, you know, an internal wholesaler as you were. And it wasn't until we had relationship for a few years that it kind of came to be known that he was a crazy Dan. I mean, crazy man. He was, you know, running these 100 miles, you know, ultra marathons.

Kevin Davis18:18

Yeah, on purpose, I might add, that wasn't an accident, it actually looked for them and went out and did them. He's a nut.

Joe Colavito18:23

Actually signed up for them. And so recently, my path recrossed with Dan, and so this isn't really a story that I was there for Ray, but I think it's an awesome story. So would you mind if I shared it?

Ray Loewe18:36

Go go go, go.

Joe Colavito18:41

Okay, so Dan, in his first 100-mile race, it's called the bear 100 out in the mountains of Utah. It's just a casual, 23,000 feet of elevation change while you run 100 miles all the way through the darkness of the night. 

Kevin Davis18:56

I don't think my car could do that, Joe.

Joe Colavito18:59

Exactly. Exactly. Right. So at the 18-mile mark, he's running on his own, it's been much harder than he thought it was going to be the elevation changes early and they're trying to get people to drop out if they don't have the endurance to stay in it. And here's footsteps behind me turns around, and a lifelong friendship is created. The quick version of that story is Fad Gillum runs up behind Dan Wilkins. There's 80 runners in the race from all over the world. And Dan says go ahead and pass me and Fad says No, I'm good man. And Dan says, No, seriously, you're younger, go ahead and pass me and Fad says what's going to become a legacy-making statement? No, I like the pace you're running at. By the time that race ends, they've been lost in the woods because some hunter took pink ribbons off of the trees because it was ruining his elk hunt. And they find their way back onto the path. They finish in 28 hours, 15 minutes, and 13 seconds hand in hand photo finish so they could experience the victory of kind of winning at the same time. Okay, fast forward the tape they now host a race called Hell and back. And Dan just let me in on this private story. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing it. He's at the 60-mile mark. Fad is not running in this race, even though they typically run these together ever since that moment, you know, several years ago, and Fad shows up unannounced at the 60-mile marker. Dan is hurting. He takes Dan's shoes off, he takes his socks off. He pours cold water over his feet, he dries his feet, he puts new socks on new sneakers on. And then he says Dan, I'm going to be your Pacer for the last 40 miles. I'm going to run the race with you. All right, let me fast forward, what we do is we teach people how to live and work on purpose. And the first step is you've got to go back through your trials and your triumphs within the context of your identity so that you can get to a purpose that is clearly defined. That could only define you It couldn't define anyone else in the world, because there's only one of you. And here it is you ready. This is Dan. My purpose is to be a pacer for others to run with endurance toward joy. Because only an ultramarathoner who has created a race called hell and back would know how to do that. And his promises to always remind you why you entered the race. So let me just play that out real quickly for you guys. Hey, Dan, I'm struggling with Debbie, it's over. I'm going to get a divorce. How do you fulfill your purpose? He says, Well, first of all, I remind you that you know, a marriage is a race. Your career is a race, parenting is a race, everything's an ultramarathon. It wasn't supposed to be easy. So run with endurance toward joy. And I see Yeah, that's nice, Dan, but I'm still going to get the divorce papers, I'm calling the attorney. And he says, Hey, let me keep my promise to you. I'm always going to remind you why you entered the race. Tell me, when you first met Debbie, what was it like when you first had Jessica, talk to me about what you know, were the best years of your marriage, you're gonna give all that up. So and I could go on and on a person comes into him at work and says I'm thinking of leaving, he can have the same conversation, he can see somebody who's lost a job, no matter what conversation situation there is. There's one purpose, there's five missions, family, friends, career, community because you are one person navigating on purpose in all situations. And Dan's awesome at it.

Ray Loewe22:29

You know, we're unfortunately, we're getting near the end of our time, time flies when you're having fun over here, but if you had to look at this concept of purpose, how many people percentage-wise in this country really have a grasp on what their purpose is?

Joe Colavito22:47

I wouldn't be able to put a percentage on it. But I'm going to tell you a little secret survey that I do with every person I meet. So every person I meet, that's new, I say, hey, somewhere in the conversation, so sounds like you're a person of purpose. And they nod and I'll say, Would you mind sharing your, you know, your one-sentence purpose statement. And they say something like this? Well, I did it years ago. It's in a journal. I remember doing it. When I read Rick Warren's book, The Purpose Driven Life, I'd have to go back to the book, and reader, I hope you hear this with the love that I intended. If you have to go back to a book, to look up what your purpose is, how could you possibly be living it out every day, and therefore you're forfeiting the opportunity to experience life's full potential. So let me anchor that in a 1900-year-old quote, If I could Ray, 1900 years ago, Marcus Aurelius, this is AD 121 said this, and this is why I do what I do every day. People who labor all their lives, but have no purpose to direct every thought and impulse toward are wasting their time, even when hard at work. So if you're out there and you're listening, and you're hard at work, and you're finding that you're either running on empty, or that you've arrived at a false summit, and what you thought was gonna be there, the good life isn't there. And you're lacking the fulfillment and the impact that you know, you were made to be, but you don't know how to get there. Pivot back to purpose. 

Kevin Davis24:20

So, Joe, in the closing minutes here, you know, I'm sure a whole lot of people are sitting here going, Wow, this, I gotta do something about this. What would you recommend? What's one simple kind of next step that listeners could take to say, hey, how do I start to think about my purpose and maybe pivot back to that? 

Joe Colavito24:43

Find somewhere where you can get off and be alone with your own thoughts? Don't be afraid to go into uncomfortable places. And I'll just list off some questions Top of Mind, who am I? Why am I here? What do I do best? What's that thing that I do best? What makes my heart jump the most? What greatly disturbs me to the point I have to fix it right now? And how do I make the most lasting impact in the lives of others? So if you start to answer those questions, you'll find that all the way back, and I'll just quickly give you an example. So what do I do best? I encourage people, what makes my heart jump the most when I see them light up on purpose, what greatly disturbs me that quote, I just read you, and how do I make the most lasting impact on the lives of others, I lead them to, to a true vision of themselves. And so our program opens up with this statement, I only have one goal, I want you to see a clear vision of you. Because when you do, you're gonna have more fulfillment and impact than you've ever had. And everything in your life is going to be better. 

Ray Loewe25:56

You know, I think we have to close there. I don't think there's anything more to say and, and we'll put on our podcast notes, how you can get a hold of Joe and see his website and, you know, get back into what's the meaning of why we're here? And how do we do that to have a more fulfilling and more exciting life? And we're going to Joe, thank you so much. You're obviously one of the luckiest people in the world over here. And you're also one of the most interesting people. So thanks for being with us.

Joe Colavito26:27

It's my pleasure, Ray. And thank you, Kevin. Yeah.

Ray Loewe26:31

And next week, Kevin is bringing us to Lance and Penny Davis. Maybe they're related to Kevin and it's gonna be one of the most intriguing interviews that we've ever done. So stay tuned. And we'll see you all next week on changing the world, changing the world by changing the rules first. And Joe, thanks again for being with us, Kevin, thanks again for being with us. And we'll see you all next week.

Kris Parsons26:59

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world is gonna have to see a different man

Co-host and guest:  Kevin Davis:  [email protected]

Transcription:

Kris Parsons00:02

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life, and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.

Ray Loewe00:15

Good morning, everybody and welcome to changing the rules and changing the rules is is a podcast dedicated to showcasing some of the people that we think are the luckiest people in the world. And our definition here is that luck is not just luck, the luckiest people in the world actually take the time to design their own lives, under their terms. And then they live them under their terms. So they're some of the happiest people in the world. And because of that, their journeys, take them on some of the most interesting paths in the world. And we have with us today, Kevin Davis, and Kevin is doing double duty today. He is our co-host, and he'll be with us for the next three or four podcasts. But today, I wanted to tap his brain because he's got this tremendous experience, dealing with financial advisors dealing with a financial community. And he's just got some great insights to what it takes to be lucky and how you put things together. So Kevin, welcome to changing the rules.

Kevin Davis01:26

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Great to be here with you. Co-hosting and getting to talk about some fun stuff. Glad to be here, Ray.

Ray Loewe01:34

Yeah. And last week, we talked to a great guy, didn't we? And it was a guy who was actually making a change from work to being one of the luckiest people in the world.

Kevin Davis01:46

Yeah, I mean, that was a lot of fun talking with Mike, and boy, you've got to have a real direction and purpose in your life if you're willing to leave the NFL to go do something different, right. I mean, that's, free tickets to the Super Bowl he walked away from.

Ray Loewe02:05

Yeah, absolutely. So give us a quick preview, you're introducing us to three new guests, we're actually doing an extra podcast this month, and give us the short version of who the next three are and why we need to listen to their podcasts.

Kevin Davis02:20

Sure, well, you know, we're gonna, this will sound interesting and different all at the same time, we're gonna have a chance to talk with my parents, Lance and Penny Davis, which, you know, on the one hand, you better listen, because they're my parents. And if I don't, I might get in trouble. I mean, even though I'm about 50, Mom's still mom, right. But it's, weird when it's your parents, and it's, you know, your family, it's just life, you know, their experience just as normal, because it's the experience we all lived. When you step away from it, and you made some comments, it really made me realize this, and you have a chance to talk with a couple that lived in a war-torn country in Africa and basically decided to do something crazy and take their one child and whatever, they could get on a plane and show up in another country and start over and go through everything that comes with that. And all these years later, you know, here they are, successful entrepreneurs, in this country, having run their own business for the last 25 years, it's really very interesting to get their perspective. And so I think as we talk with them, you will begin to see more of where a lot of my thinking came from. But I'm the lucky one because they're the ones that took all of the really significant risks. And, I got to benefit from that, you know, so that'll be a lot of fun, then we're gonna get, we'll get to have a chance to spend some time with a dear friend of mine, Joe Colavito. Joe and I worked together for years. And he is just very focused on helping people really think through and understand their purpose. And that's a thread Ray that we've been hearing. You know, and the not too distant past here, and that you and I have talked about is it. It seems like the luckiest people in the world. When you really peel the onion back. They're lucky and they're living, shall we say living life on their own terms? Well, that makes it sound like everything goes perfectly and there's no problems and we know that's not the reality of it at all. I think it's because they have a purpose and a direction that they tend to figure it out and make the best of situations and they keep moving. And when you look back you go Wow, look at that. That's what a great life they've been living. And so Joe's gonna talk about purpose and I think that's just so important. And then, you know, when we talk with Steve and you've met Joe and Steve and, you know, Steve, so not only is he one of the foremost experts on centenarians in our country today, what started out as a small project one in an interview, a handful of people over the age of 100, turned into a passion and he just kind of kept going. And between in-person and then, you know, in writing.Hundreds and hundreds of centenarians later he amassed wisdom, that is just, it's fun. It's, it's humorous, it's, it's sad, but it's just filled with truth. And maybe, more importantly, he's my barbecue mentor, he is the guy who taught me how to how to smoke meat that you know that you'll hop in the car and travel 15 hours for so. I think the real problem we have Ray is how are we going to get all that done in 20-25 minutes each, right?

Ray Loewe05:57

Well, we'll manage. We'll manage to scrunch them all in and, you know, each of these people are going to back up some of the things that I want to talk to you about today. And, you know, we talk so much about the luckiest people in the world designing their own lives. Well, you know, if you think about it, if you design your own life, and you live it under your own terms, and one of the goals of being able to do this is that you are happier than you've ever been in your life. I mean, what's not to like? But the problem is that it takes some work to do that. And one of the things that I want to bounce around with you today is one of the mindsets of the luckiest people in the world is that they have to know what they want. And if you don't know what you want, how can you design your own life? So you got to figure this out. And yet, I get the comment from so but so many people, how can you know what you want when things change so fast? You know, we all kind of knew what we wanted before this COVID thing, and then look what happened. So why should we take the time to plan and think about this, but you know, the luckiest people in the world? And this is a hypothesis I'm going to put in front of you. And then I'm going to turn you loose and let you comment on it. I think there are five things that the luckiest people in the world need to have in order to know what they want. And be and when you do this, you can pivot you can go from one place to another whenever you need to do that always finding the path that you want to be happy and lucky. So here's what the five are Kevin. Okay, let's go. The first one is purpose, you know, they all have a purpose. And you know, you said Joe Colavito is going to come in and talk about that more. But I think the people who know who they are and why they're here have a sense of direction built into them. Yeah, the second one is mission. And that's kind of related. But mission, I think is where you take your purpose, and you figure out how to transform it into something that will help others as you go. You did a session for us a long time ago on values. And you know, I think the people who know what they want always go back to the values, they have a good sense of what's important to them. On the fifth one is a passion for excellence. I mean, you've got to have skill levels. And when you work within those skill levels that you're really good at and you're passionate about, then everything seems to work better than when you try to do other things. And I've got some sneaky examples I'm going to pull out of you on that one, Kevin. And then the last one, which I think is just really cool, is they want to like their day, at the end of everything. They want to go through a day and they want to say I liked my day. Yeah, so I so where do you want to start? Oh, Master, oh, pitmaster barbecueist, executive coach, and Master of the meaning of life?

Kevin Davis09:09

Why don't we jump into the value one because, you know, Joe will be with us talking about your purpose and submission will be woven in there as well. Like you said, We don't have time for all of them. But the value is one I think is so important because, you know, it's life happens. And who knows what tomorrow brings. And I think how we respond and move through life is really a big part of what determines that you know, are we happy? Is there joy our lives? Do we feel like we're living the life that we want to live? And I think that means when there are moments where there are tough decisions to be made and remember doing nothing is a decision. Right? And I think we forget that because a lot of times the default might be Oh, I don't know what to do, I'm not going to do anything. But it's a decision that we just made. And it's a tough decision. So I think having a set of values you can look at, really gives a great lens, now I'll share, you know, three or four of my core values. And then I want to give a story. So, you know, I grew up in a family of deep faith, my dad's a Reverend, my parents were a bit of a cliche, but they were actually missionaries in Africa. And so faith is very important to that. So that's a key foundational value. So decisions will always be made through that lens. Another one is family. You know, it's very important to me, to be with my family, spend time with my family. So that's another important lens. Another one is creativity. You know, Ray, I've got a creative streak in me. And so it's very important to me that I get to use that. And if I just stopped there, there's others. But if I kind of stopped there, here's the problem with those faith, family, that's almost a cliche, right? We hear it, you know, you could throw an apple pie at the end too if you want. What's that look like, though, when it really comes time to make some significant decisions. So I thought I'd share a story about the family one. So as you know, I lived in Jersey for about 10 years, that's when we met didn't live too far from you. And two, if you go back about eight, nine years, there were two significant things that happened in about a six, nine-month period, that really kind of caused me to step back and ask some good hard questions around what is the life we were living as good as it was, I mean, we were just happy we had good friends and a great job. You know, I in the financial industry working in and around the metro New York area, that's kind of the mecca of the financial industry. So you'd look from the outside and go, Well, why were you even asking questions? Everything's great. Well, so here are the two things that happened. My grandmother passed away. Now she lived a long life just shy of 90. But I'll share a bit about why that had such an impact beyond all of the obvious. And then I went to a funeral for a friend when his father passed away. So here's the context. My grandmother was living in New Zealand. We need another whole podcast to talk about her life, because she started out in Africa, ended up in New Zealand. She was you know getting up there in years, and she got sick, and my parents rushed over to be with her. But you know, New Zealand is almost exactly halfway around the globe. It's not an easy place to rush to. And just with everything that was going on, we sort of made a family decision that I would sort of stay behind to try and help from here. And they would go to be with Gran, it was my dad's mom. And so there was a good decision about what that meant is I didn't get to see her that one last time. We had seen her maybe nine months before. And we were blessed and thankful. But you know, it's not like we just seen her two weekends ago. So that got me thinking, boy, you know, family is important. But I've got part of my family halfway around the world. When you get to these moments where you're celebrating or you're mourning, you're far away. Then I went to this funeral, maybe you know, 6,7,8 months later, for a gentleman, I knew an advisor in North Jersey, we became friends, his dad had passed, I didn't know his father. So it wasn't the same level of emotion. But I'm sitting at the back and I'm watching his whole family taking up, you know, the front eight, or 10 pews it was a big family, and watching the interaction with them that there was certainly the sorrow but then afterwards, you know, that there's the reliving these memories, the joy of all that. And I had gone with a friend of mine, and I looked at her and I said, Wow, that's amazing to watch that. It makes me kind of wonder, is it wise for me to be raising my family, my daughters, my three girls up here away from their grandparents, and potentially repeating what happened to me away from my grandparents. And so as only a true friend can do, Ray, she looked at me, she said, Yeah, you're right. You're stupid. You need to move. And I was like, What are you crazy? As you know, we did. So when we say family is a value, right? That's what I think it looks like when you do those things that from the outside. Someone go? What are you doing? Yeah, that's insane, man. You're moving without a job. At the time the decision was made before I had a job. Thankfully, we had one before we got there. But we made the decision based on the value. And I look back, what an amazing decision when I look at the things we have enjoyed in the last eight years, since being back living 15 minutes from my sister and her family, 15 minutes from my parents, and my three girls growing up with cousins. And then my wife's sister's an hour away with her two boys. So we have seen the kids grow up with their cousins around the pools and at the beaches and all that, oh, he's just looking at Oh, man, are we lucky. But it went back to there was a process that we could look at life lens we could look at life through. And that one core value where we realized, Hey, you know, it's not quite right, something's off. So that's what I mean with value.

Ray Loewe15:57

Okay. Let me inject a couple of things. You know, one of the things that I get from people about designing your own life, is they say, isn't that selfish? And I think when you put your values in place is not selfish at all. Okay, yeah. Because you're not doing this, at the exclusion of your family, if family is important, you're going to include them, and you're going to base what you do around them. And that's why values are so important. And let me throw in one other thing we've seen since this COVID thing, that a lot of people who have decided or had decided that at some point in time, they were going to move into one of these over 55, continuing care kind of communities, and are now changing their mind. Because they're saying that what I missed during this year is I wasn't able to be with my family. And I'm now gonna rethink how I do this. And go ahead, Kevin.

Kevin Davis17:01

Well, no, You said something I think's profound. Isn't it selfish? I would argue that making decisions that aren't based on your values are selfish, because here's the thing, how many people do you know that will say, hey, one of my core values is selfishness. Probably not many. There's something sure lived that way. When you get down to it, most people have core values that are as much about others as themselves. And so when decisions are being made that way, they are almost always others-focused. And I think that's maybe part of why those people are so happy, though.

Ray Loewe17:47

Yeah, because the other focus, okay, I want to change direction, because we'll run out of time if we're not careful. So I want to talk a little bit about this passion for excellence. And, this whole bit about taking into account what you're good at, and what you're passionate about, and building your life around those things. So start making your comments, and then I'll force you into a story about you.

Kevin Davis18:13

Well, I think I even know the story you want. So I'll just jump right in. I think you nailed it, when you're doing something that you're passionate about that you're good at mind you, right? So you can be passionate about something and candidly would be pretty bad at it. And there's a point where that, you know, that's not fun for anybody. But when you're good at it, I think you gain joy and energy from it. You know, I enjoy talking to people I know, that's a surprise, you might catch some of the energy in my voice when we're doing this. Because this is fun. This isn't work. This is I love this, right? Give me a spreadsheet, and I want to kill myself or but let's give a real-life example. My bathroom. You know the story. So we were looking my wife and I over the holidays, we're looking at the bathroom. And we noticed we had those big plate wall mirrors up on the walls over the sinks, you know, whatever they are five foot by four foot those big ones. And she noticed that one of them had slipped it had dropped out of the little piece that holds it. And she's like, you know, we need to fix that. You better get someone to come in and do that. Because if that falls forward, it's going to shatter oh man and it'll be dangerous. It'll be a massive disaster. And so I of course looked at that and I thought, How hard could that be? That doesn't I don't need to hire someone to come. I can fix the mirror. I said honey, I got this. Now, my wife, is an amazing woman, very wise were married almost 28 years. And she very lovingly said Are you sure that's the best idea. No, no, I got the hun. I got a little extra time on. Okay. And she stepped back. Well, you know how the story goes, I get into it. And it turns out, I can't fix it. So then I'm like, well, I'll just take it off the wall. And that'll probably help me figure out what to do. And maybe I'll just replace it and put a new one up. Well, you know, these have been there since the house was built. So I take them off the wall, and I realized, Oh, no, it took part of the wallboard with it. Now I've got this disaster of a wall. And, and in the process of taking, there were three of them. And they were on sort of an angle two sides, and then one on an angle in between the two of them, and it was the middle one that had slipped. So in the process of getting it out, I, of course, loosen the other two and advertently. Now I'm taking three mirrors off the wall, and this whole project starts to snowball. Before you know it, I'm having to do drywall repair. Now we're starting to think about well, maybe you got to paint right. And well, if you're painting should you repaint, and now that leads into Well, you know, the fixtures you kind of nicked one of those and they're kind of old and now we're replacing fixtures. I am not an electrician. Here I am face timing my father-in-law who built his house, and he's up in New York. Hey, Dan, how do I do this? Well, he's laughing at me. And a month later, I'm about ready to just jump out the window.

Ray Loewe21:37

And it took you that long?

Kevin Davis21:39

It took me that long. We won't talk about the number of times I was redoing things because I did them wrong the first time, I would say the miracle is to this day, you know, a couple of months later, the light fixtures are still on the wall. And they actually turn on when I throw the switch. Now it looks okay, right now it looks pretty good. All right. But here's the problem. It took way longer than it would have for someone who's actually good at that. It cost me more money because I messed stuff up so many times, and don't even talk about the level of anxiety and frustration that came with it. And at no point in that stretch. Would anyone have thought I looked like a lucky guy? Now you would have been lucky to watch and laugh. But I think that crazy story underscores the point. Excellence matters. If you're good at something, get phenomenal at it. And you will love the process and everyone else around you will love being part of the process. If you're not good at something, that's okay. We're not you know that that's the beauty of life. We're all good at different things. But we're all good at something. Understand what that is and strive to be excellent in that area. And let the others who are excellent in other areas, let them Excel there, I think, isn't that the beauty of a painting, right? A painting with one color is just called paint on a wall. Yeah, painting with a bunch of colors is called a masterpiece. And I was just reminded that in my masterpiece of life, it should not include me doing extensive home repairs.

Ray Loewe23:27

And this is all part of why the luckiest people in the world know what they want and are able to pivot and they know in advance that they're going to crank their values into it. And they know they're going to crank what they're good at and what they're not good at, and not get caught up in something where they have an obligation where they just don't have the mental commitment to follow through. So um that all leads to I just want to like my day.

Kevin Davis23:55

Yeah, well, you know, the first four lead to the fifth. And I don't think you get to the fifth without the first four. It's a process and I think it's important that we allow ourselves to be okay, with not doing things if they're not what we're great at. And not to feel guilty about that. I think that's real important. But I hope that there's maybe I hope this is encouraging to people. Because I do think and you sort of alluded to this earlier, I think there are some people that go well, how do I live this life on purpose? When crazy things like COVID happen. That wasn't in my plan. I yeah, that's called life. When you have a process that you can loosely follow. I think it helps you. As you said, figure out where do you pivot to because life's about pivoting? It's never a straight line.

Ray Loewe24:57

Yeah. And if you base it on your values, and you know what they are and you base it on what you're good at, it's going to come out, okay. And you're going to find that solution. And I hate to interrupt you Kevin, but we're near the end of our time. Okay. And all good things come to an end. And what we're going to be able to do is we're going to be able to follow up on this concept of how do you know what you want? Over the next several weeks? Because we're talking to people who are experts at pieces of this, I think.

Kevin Davis25:28

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I, my dad shared with me something that is wonderful that he wants to talk on is he wants to talk about sweet spot, living in your sweet spot. It's this idea of passion for excellence. Right? Okay. And I think it's cool because he's obviously at a different stage of life than I am at a stage where a lot of times I think society says you're supposed to be winding down, retiring, you know, sitting on the golf course, and not being valuable to the rest of the world anymore. And yet, they're talking about how do they make sure they're in their sweet spot for the next stage of life? Think about that for a minute, the next stage of life?

Ray Loewe26:10

Yeah, and then we're gonna bring in Steve Franklin, at some point time he's going to talk about these centenarians, people will live to be 100. And there's a good chance that all of us have a chance to do that. And what are we going to do with our time going forward? So uh, Kevin, you know, thanks so much for being with me today. And I'm looking forward to the next couple of weeks. And we'll do some great guests. And we'll see our guest shortly on changing the rules. Have a good day.

Kevin Davis26:39

Thanks, Ray you too.

Kris Parsons26:41

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.

Guest Co-host:  Kevin Davis:  [email protected] 

Podcast Guest:  Mike Smith:  [email protected]

Mike's Website:  https://huddleadvisory.com/

Transcription:

Kris Parsons00:03

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life, and how you can figure out how to do that to.  Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.

Ray Loewe00:19

Good morning, everybody. This is Ray Loewe with the luckiest guy in the world. And I'm sitting here in wonderful downtown Woodbury, New Jersey, at the wildfire podcast studios. And we have a whole new flow for the next month. We've got our co-host, Kevin Davis, who's an Atlanta-based person, I'm going to introduce him in a minute, we have a great guest today. And what this show is all about is it's about highlighting some of the luckiest people in the world. And the luckiest people in the world are those people who take control over their own life, and then live their lives under their own terms. And what's proven out is that the luckiest people in the world are also the most interesting people in the world, I think will bare that out today, as we talk. So let me introduce Kevin Davis. Kevin is a longtime friend of mine say hello, Kevin.

Kevin Davis01:19

How are you? Ray, it is great to be here with you in sunny Atlanta.

Ray Loewe01:22

Uh, well, except Atlanta has no gasoline. Right?

Kevin Davis01:26

Well, you know, there is that minor detail. But other than that, it's all good.

Ray Loewe01:32

Yeah. So stay home for the day. So Kevin is a coach to financial advisors. And he has tremendous industry experience on the product side of the financial industry. And the most interesting thing about Kevin is he's probably one of the most creative people I've ever met in my life. And let me tell you a quick story. So a couple of years ago, I was thinking about selling my financial planning practice. And Kevin was a member of my advisory board, and we're sitting around a big table in the back room. And we're talking about, you know, what the path was going to be after I walked away from the business. And I kind of weighed out this grandiose plan, and Kevin piped up and he said, you know, if you can do that, you've got to be one of the most interesting people in the world. And then he did this double-take, and he said, but we can't use that, because that's a beer commercial. So you're gonna be the luckiest guy in the world. It just stuck there, Kevin ever since. So thank you for that. 

Kevin Davis02:40

Well, you're welcome. And of course, and anyone who had ever been into your office knows that we were sitting there with pictures you had taken from various trips, over the years around the world, some of them I think, you might have even told me National Geographic used the one of their brochures and one of the polar bears. And so it wasn't hard to kind of come up with that looking at this thinking, wow, this guy's been all over the place. It does. I will say this, and I'm sure you've said it over the years. It is interesting how the people who tend to work the hardest and tend to have a little purpose around the work end up seeming like the luckiest people out there, isn't it Ray?

Ray Loewe03:21

Well, they work at it, you don't become the luckiest people in the world just by sitting around. And you're gonna see an example of that when we introduce Mike Smith in a minute. But, Kevin, you know, thanks for being with us. And Kevin's going to be with us for the month of May. And we've gotten some incredible people coming in, in a week or two. And there are people that Kevin has introduced me to over the years. I think one of them Steve Franklin, his claim to fame is he interviewed 100 people over the age of 100. And we're going to be talking to him about his interest and where he's going. And we've got some other equally as interesting people. So make sure you stay tuned. And you're going to get a glimpse of Kevin as we go through this, too. So Kevin, are you ready to do some interviewing?

Kevin Davis04:12

I am really excited about today. And of course, I'll let you talk a little more about Mike's background. And but I'm going to spoil it. Spoiler alert here, you know, we just went through one of the most exciting non-competition-driven moments in the NFL, in my opinion, with the draft. And you know, it's always a bit of a tease for me because I get fired up, I get back into football mode where I really am excited about hanging out with friends and family and watching football. And then you gotta wait the whole summer. But this is a real treat because of who we have. So why don't you tell everyone who Mike is and a bit about his background?

Ray Loewe04:55

Sure. So Mike Smith, one of the luckiest people in the world, and you're going to see because he is in the process of continuing to revamp his life, to live it under his own terms. But Mike started in the world of accounting at one of the big accounting firms, and then went from accounting.

Kevin Davis05:15

Right, right. I thought you said, I thought you said we're talking to interesting people. In accounting?

Ray Loewe05:23

He left the accounting field, okay. By the way, I started in the accounting business too. So there's hope for accountants. But Mike left a Deloitte touche, after several years there, and went to NBC. And then went from NBC to the NFL, and he spent 16 years at the NFL. And I think Mike said he's been to, I don't know, Mike how many super balls, have you been to, it would be 16. 16, and you had to go to those, didn't you?  It was part of the job.

Mike Smith05:58

Yeah, no, it was a real chore. I must say that. That was one of the things that was a requirement of the job was attending Super Bowls.

Ray Loewe06:05

Okay.

Kevin Davis06:06

I'm sensing the pain and your voice about how hard that was?

Mike Smith06:11

Oh, it's funny. The one Super Bowl I ended up missing was the Super Bowl that actually had my favorite team in it, believe it or not, but we can get to that a little bit later.

Ray Loewe06:20

Okay, so what we're going to do is let Mike talk a little bit about his journey, and how he got from the accounting field to NBC to the NFL, and where he's going forward here because that's actually the most interesting part of his whole career. So, Mike, tell us a little bit about your journey and where you come from, and where you're going.

Mike Smith06:45

Well, thanks, Ray. Thanks, Kevin. And thanks for having me. And I truly am humbled to be on a podcast with a name such as the luckiest people in the world. It's not something I really would have ever envisioned. But I do love that you're trying to inspire people to be more intentional about how they're living their lives. I just think that's really, really a great purpose and a great focus for your work. And, you know, I am incredibly fortunate, but it's funny, I actually don't believe in luck. It's, funny, I just think that you know, sometimes low probability events happen, whether they're, you know, good or bad. But really what, I try to do, what I try to tell other people to do is, you know, what are you doing to actually maximize your chances of success, that, you know, a positive thing will happen, as opposed to a negative one? You know, because in life, you know, decisions have consequences, and sometimes you're not making a decision has a consequence. And so, you know, the question, you know, I have for the audience is, you know, what steps are you taking to actually create your own luck, because I think you said earlier that, you know, there's a fair amount of work that goes into trying to, you know, live a life that you really want to be living. And, you know, that starts with having, you know, that intention, but, you know, my journey started, like you said, in public accounting, and how I got there was just because my father was in accounting, and my brother was in accounting, so it was ended up just being the family choice. But, you know, it was really the start of an amazing journey that, you know, taught me, you know, the value of having quite honestly, really good boss, that, when you have a really good boss, it just creates an environment that allows you to learn, allows you to fail, allows you to experiment and try new things. But what's great about it also, is that you know, instilled in me from the onset of having a mindset of how to always be learning and how to always be pushing myself out of my comfort zone. So, you know, when I was at Deloitte, I started there, working on the Comcast engagement, which was the largest client they had in the Philadelphia Office, and I got the sports bug because one of the things I ended up doing was working on their acquisition of the Flyers and the 76ers and the stadiums in Philadelphia. So, you know, being a young sports fan, born and raised in Philadelphia, and actually looking at the financial statements of, you know, two of my favorite teams and seeing how the salt is, which made inside the sports industry was just an incredibly thrilling, thrilling moment. And, you know, in many respects, that first job I had at Deloitte because I was working with close friends who I still keep in contact with, you know, one of my best bosses ever. It was probably the best corporate job I ever had, which, you know, maybe is a sad statement that the best corporate job I ever had was when I was 22 years old, but it really was a great experience and a little bit of maybe a thread is that I actually followed that boss at Deloitte to NBC. You know, I, we had such a great connection, we complemented each other really well. And first at NBC. I was in Philadelphia ultimately became the CFO of the local TV station. And then at the time, NBC was owned by General Electric. And so if you remember the Jack Welch era of General Electric, they put a real focus on talent, they put a real focus on talent development. And really, every two years or so their high potential executives would be moving to their next opportunity. And so they came to me with a choice of, you know, a safe corporate job that I could leave Philadelphia for up in New York working and 30 rock where, you know, I'd be dealing with spreadsheets all day, or an opportunity to start something new out in Los Angeles and create a finance team with their growing NBC studios in house production arm. And you know, it was a great example of me pushing myself out of my comfort zone and wanting to, you know, take a personal risk and try something new.

Ray Loewe10:47

So can I interrupt for a minute, Mike, because you said a few things here that I think are really significant. And, you know, one of the purposes of the show is to showcase some people who are some of the luckiest people in the world. And you're absolutely right, you create luck, luck doesn't just happen. But you know, one of the things that you said is you search out the perfect boss, and you follow them. And then the second thing is that you push yourself and don't be afraid to jump off the cliff a little bit in order to try new opportunities to challenge your comfort zone. So, you know, as we go, let's highlight more of that because I think there are too many people that just get complacent with a job and don't move. And if not, how you get lucky is it?

Mike Smith11:39

No, and I think let's hit just a little bit of a pause button and linger on that for a moment because the phrase pushing yourself out of our comfort zone has become a little bit cliche, but I think the thought is, you know, what does that actually mean and translate to in terms of an activity or an action? And sometimes, you know, you do have to jump off that proverbial cliff in order to push yourself. And, you know, this is a question for people that are listening is, you know when was the last time you really jumped off that proverbial Cliff from a career standpoint? You know, has it been 10 years? Has it been 15 years? And if that is the question, then you know, you probably should be really seriously contemplating, you know, some type of move that would actually push yourself and actually make that jump. I think that's 100% spot on? Well,

Kevin Davis12:30

you know, Mike, it's interesting, it's interesting, because we, you know, we're obviously a very sports-centric society, we have all of these wonderful sports analogies, and we tend to talk about pushing ourselves, you know, going to the next level, we tend to talk about that a lot relative to athletes, and as they're trying to perform. We don't hear some of this language necessarily applied to how we make decisions about our own life, though. I mean, that's just very interesting thinking, right? Hey, let's push myself out of a comfort zone in my career. Well, that sounds a little scary. What are your thoughts about some of how you develop that mindset? Because I think it's a really important mindset. 

Mike Smith13:16

Yeah, I think, you know, I love the notion of sort of everyone thinking about themselves as an athlete, do you want to call yourself a corporate athlete, you know, have at it, but, you know, it does start with, you know, having a mindset that you want to make an improvement in your life. And so, whatever that improvement is, you know, is a personal decision. But, you know, when I think about mindset, there's a handful of things that I focus on. One is having a real awareness around myself and my environment, you know, are you really looking in the mirror around sort of what my strengths and my blind spots are, you know, what is my current situation in whatever my environment is. Then really getting locked in on your personal purpose and your motivation, you know, what is really going to bring you the most satisfaction. You know, there's a lot of work out there. But oftentimes, you know, your real purpose in life is driven, is really linked back to some core emotional challenge you even had very early in your life, and really identifying that and creating that linkage is just such a powerful moment for people. And, you know, I remember when I actually made that link around what I want to be doing and linked it back to my core emotional event that happened earlier in life. It was just such a warmness came over my body, it was so incredibly satisfying and powerful, and it just drives you in a way that is hard to explain. And then the last thing that I think really contributes to mindset is probably not appreciated enough is just your physical, emotional, and mental well being, you know, how you feel and how you see the world and what you leaving yourself open to really does impact opportunities that come your way and how you see the playing field, so to speak. So I think all those three things from you know, your self-awareness, to your motivations too, you know, your well being really contribute to the mindset, you need to then get after something. And I think, you know, the outcomes will happen if you have, you know, the right mindset driving, you know, the activities you want.

Kevin Davis15:27

Yeah, that's, what do you think two books out of that right there? Yeah.

Ray Loewe15:32

Well, I think we're gonna see that this is where Mike's going, because, you know, when most people look at your career, and you say, you know, well, maybe not the accounting part, but you know, you get to NBC, and you're working with the stars, the TV stars, etc. And then you go to the NFL, and we all know what that's like, and the power of the NFL, and then all of a sudden, you leave to go off on your own. Because I think what you said something along the way is, in the end, it's just a job. And it's not the ability to express yourself and be yourself. 

Mike Smith16:12

Yeah, I think, you know, you end up spending so much time in your professional career, to not be doing something that is bringing you deep personal satisfaction, and fulfillment really is just sort of a waste of how you're spending your time. And, again, there's a lot of reasons financially or otherwise, why people do the things that they do. But, you know, get locked in on your tension, tried to link it back to some real deeper purpose, and give yourself that self-drive to just live a much more fulfilling life. And, you know, for me when I was out in Los Angeles, you know, learning the TV business in Hollywood, you know, so it was such a great experience. But what was awesome about it is that I also ended up working with another great boss, who I ended up following to the NFL. So she was the CFO of the entire West Coast entertainment business, another person that I really connected with, and we were just fundamentally different and complemented each other. So so well, that she went and took a job at the NFL. And six months later, she got promoted, because she's a superstar and brought me over to work at the NFL. So again, a thread of me being fortunate, identifying good bosses doing good work for them, and then following their trail that they're blazing for me.

Ray Loewe17:33

Give yourself credit, because you wound up a senior VP of Finance for the NFL, so you had to do some good stuff along the way.

Mike Smith17:42

Well, I tried to you know, it certainly helps too, you know, surround yourself with really great people and work in cultures and organizations that really value performance and really give you the tools to be successful. And, you know, the NFL, during my time there over the 16 years went through such its own transformation of really moving from, you know, a sports league to really a global multimedia entertainment organization. You know, I think when I started, they probably would have looked at their peers much more to the other sports leagues. And then by the time I departed, you know, their peers were ESPN and Disney, and Fox, because that's sort of where their business model has taken them. And it really was an amazing experience. So many friends, so many great memories. But it also is, it's kind of interesting, you know, to work in your passion, you know, there when your passion and your job are intertwined. You know, you don't view your passion sort of the same way that you would normally and that's something that I always share with young people as they're entering the sports business is, you know, be ready for what you're wishing for, because, you know, it comes with some trade-offs that people probably don't appreciate.

Ray Loewe19:00

You know, I want you to interject a story here, a little bit out of sequence in a way but it's such a great story that you've got to tell it. And tell me about the photograph that you showed me long ago, about a football game. I think it was a high school football game back in the 1990s or something like that.

Mike Smith19:19

Yeah, there's a fairly famous photograph that as really made the rounds all over the NFL league office, because it's such a powerful picture. But back in 1965, in Mount Hermon, Massachusetts, I believe is the town. There was a high school football game that was going on between two local rivals, and the science building right behind the field caught on fire. And so there's a famous picture that I think actually won the AP sports photograph of the year of 1965 of the game being played, the stands being full, and a raging fire in the background of the science building with fire trucks. You know, dousing it with water. And it just sort of always spoke to me around the power sport has especially football, but sport generally has in people's lives to, you know, build community and to really bring joy to people. And you know, my joke when I share that picture is that it ultimately resulted in the most unusual hattrick in history where Mount Hermon lost the game, they lost a 17 game winning streak, and they lost their science building all in the same day. Which, you know, I feel bad for Mount Hermon. But it really is such a powerful reminder of, you know, the power of sport. Okay.

Kevin Davis20:38

You hate to lose a winning streak like that. I mean, the building too, but yeah.

Ray Loewe20:44

Yeah, the winning streak, let's put it in perspective, the winning streak is what was really important, they're not the science building, right,

Kevin Davis20:50

You can rebuild the science building.

Mike Smith20:53

So you know, they decided the fire didn't pose a risk to the game, they just kept on playing, I mean, who would not make that decision, given the same choice. So I think we all appreciate that. Okay,

Ray Loewe21:04

So as usual, we're approaching the end of time here, but I want to get into a couple of other things. So,you recently decided that it was time for you to leave the NFL, and go off on your own. So tell us a little bit about what you're doing. And tell us a little bit about what it took to make that leap from your standpoint because it's a gutsy move.

Mike Smith21:30

Yeah, you know, I reached the point of my NFL tenure, first, you know, 6-7-8 years in the finance role. And then the last six, seven years in HR-related roles. And, you know, after 16 plus seasons, you know, staring at, you know, 50 years old, and just thinking about sort of what the next phase of my career look like, you know, I realized, you know, I did everything I was going to do there, and, you know, it was better for me, and, you know, quite honestly, it's better for the NFL, as well too, you know, create some you know, runway for other future leaders in that organization. And it was time for me to just, you know, go live a life, that was a lot more flexible in one respect, but much more dedicated towards the specific activities that I really enjoyed doing, you know, I just wanted to retake some control. And then I also wanted a real diversity of leaders and challenges and industries to be working from and growing with. So, you know, I jumped off the cliff again, and, you know, had really, really great conversations with the leadership team there, including the commissioner around where I was, and, you know, executed a transition to a great new HR leader, and, you know, exited stage left in 2020. So, it certainly did not expect to be leaving, right before the pandemic, for sure, but it was, but you know, it's one of those things that you, you have to always look at what's in front of you and figure out, Okay, this is a really rough situation, how do I make the best of it, you know, I always preach to people that you have to have this realistic optimism in your life. It's not, you know, all rainbows and unicorns, but it's looking at what's in front of you and figuring out, okay, what's the upside of the fact pattern that's staring me in the face. And that's what I'm doing now. So right now, I've got a handful of different silos. The first is around executive coaching, which is, you know, one-to-one leader development, which I just love to do. You know, I love building trust, I love trying to pay it forward to the next generation of leaders and using all of my experience of being in the trenches and a lot of difficult issues and how to make people you know, the best version of themself. Second, is I do human capital consulting. So, you know, I've got this very unique background of being, you know, finance, HR executive, you know, a real left brain and right brain thinker at the same time. And so, I end up just looking at human capital and culture issues and just a different way than the traditional consultant. So I find that satisfying. And then, you know, the third silo is I actually am still learning and investing in myself and pushing myself out of my comfort zone, and started a doctoral program at Vanderbilt in leadership and learning. So, you know, I think at some point, when that is done, in the next few years, you know, I'll find myself in a classroom setting, you know, in some type of academic world, and that'll be incredibly satisfying. And so, you know, now living this sort of next phase of my life, doing one-to-one coaching, working on human capital initiatives, and, you know, academic work where I really helped to shape you know, students leaving college is just incredibly satisfying for me.

Ray Loewe24:56

Well, you know, last for quite a while question we're getting to the end of time here. Go ahead.

Kevin Davis25:03

I was just gonna say it's interesting, um, we tend to, you know, collectively we tend to look at people, you know, like Mike or like you, Ray who have these really interesting and diverse set of circumstances and we say, man, what a great life, they're living How lucky they are, I would love that in my life, right. And then, at the same time, so often we tend to cling to security and stability. And kind of a thread that I'm hearing here and I see this over and over again, is, you don't get this really interesting set of opportunities in life if all you do is sit behind the desk and never leave home, you have to be willing to be thoughtful about what matters to take these, you know, calculated risks. You know, Mike, as you said, his point, we've got to be willing to go jump off the cliff. And I love that. Not only do you say that, and encourage people and coach them to do that, but you've been willing to consistently model that. And I think there's a lot to be learned from that, you know, for those of our listeners who are sitting there going, gosh, I want a life, I'd love to live like that. Well, you know, chances are, there's an opportunity for whatever their equivalent is, by being willing to be thoughtful, purposeful, and say it's time to get off the you know, the couch and take a risk, you know, run and jump off the cliff so to speak. 

Mike Smith26:34

Yeah, I think the only thing I would add to that is, you know, everyone's an expert in something. So for people that are sitting at home, you know, contemplating, well, you know, jumping off the cliff, sounds a little bit too risky to me, you know, first do some self-work and think about what am I an expert in, because everyone listening to this is an expert in something. And once you identify that, then it just becomes a function of your business model and your structuring which are, you know, quote-unquote, easy things to work through if you've got the real will, to make a change.

Ray Loewe27:08

Great, great. Yeah, and unfortunately, we're at the end of our time, and I wanted to thank Mike Smith, who is CEO and founder of Huddle Advisory. Great, great name, by the way, Mike, given your background, and uh, we'll post that with our podcast notes. So if you want to get in touch with Mike, you'll be able to find him. And Mike, just thanks for being with us and showing us you know, how you kind of journey to being one of the luckiest people in the world and certainly one of the most interesting people in the world, and best of luck going forward. And I don't think you need the luck. I think you're going to make your own luck. So thanks for being with us.

Mike Smith27:52

Thanks so much, guys. This was fun.

Ray Loewe27:55

Okay, we will see everybody next week where we'll have another interesting guest and stay tuned to changing the rules.

Kris Parsons28:08

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host of Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world. 

Guest Co-host:  Rebecca Hoffman:  [email protected]

Rebecca's Website:  www.GoodEggConcepts.com

Podcast Guest:  Lourdes Nicholls:  [email protected]

Transcription: 

Kris Parsons 00:02

Welcome to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do it too.  Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.

Ray Loewe 00:16

The morning everybody and welcome to wildfire podcast studios in wonderful Woodbury, I got that wrong already Woodbury, New Jersey, and we are here with our engineer Taylor, who keeps us running smooth, and without him, we couldn't do these podcasts. So we have a couple of great guests today. And I think we need to make a comment before we get into our guests about the luckiest people in the world and remind everybody that they're the people who sit down and design their own lives, and who understand that things are going to change. And so they don't just design their own lives once, they constantly design their own lives, so that they can live their lives under their own terms, and live them being happy and content with where they're going. And we have two of the luckiest people in the world. Joining us in a minute. Let me bring on Rebecca Hoffman. Rebecca has been our guest host for the last month. And unfortunately Rebecca this is our last one, isn't it? Uh oh. So we're gonna have to do something about that. And Rebecca runs Good Egg Concepts. And every time I think about this, I get this image of Humpty Dumpty, but Humpty didn't fall off the wall. In this case, he's there. And he's intact. And, Rebecca designs, branding for people. And she is one of the best storytellers in the world. And best of all, one of the best people that help you craft stories. And we're going to craft another one today, aren't we, Rebecca?

Rebecca Hoffman01:53

Yes, we are. We have a great story to tell here today. And I'm excited for it.

Ray Loewe 01:58

Cool. Why don't you introduce our guest?

Rebecca Hoffman 02:00

Sure. Our guest today is Lourdes Nicholls, who I'm so proud to say is my friend, we met through some mutual work we were doing together. And as sometimes work will do when you're done with the work you get to talking about your life when you like somebody and we sat together one day and talked over coffee. And she told me a little bit of her life story, which really resonated with me because it was a story that's of personal interest to me privately. And I'm gonna let Lourdes tell the story. But I'm just gonna say that Lourdes is starting to devote and dedicate her life to greater understanding and education around the Japanese American incarceration during World War II. And I'm just delighted that Lourdes is going to take a little time with us to tell us about her family and kind of give us a sense of why this chapter in American history is profound and needs to be considered, especially in the moment we're in today. Lourdes, thanks for being here.

Lourdes Nicholls  02:57

Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be here. And I feel like the luckiest person to be part of a part of today and a part of you, and you've done so much to help me. So I appreciate you as much Rebecca.

Ray Loewe 03:12

Once you're on one of these podcasts, you're one of the luckiest people in the world whether you want to be or not, and you can't get out of it.

Lourdes Nicholls  03:20

Okay.  I'll take it.

Rebecca Hoffman 03:23

Maybe we should begin at the logical beginning. And maybe Lourdes tell us a little bit about your family. And if you don't mind, for the listeners who may not be as familiar Can you describe what the Japanese American incarceration was, it was previously referred to as internment. But that's not a term that's used anymore. And maybe you can sort of have a little background so we understand.

Lourdes Nicholls  03:43

Sure. So when I was growing up, I always knew that my mom was born in a Japanese what I called an internment camp at Manzanar during World War II. I know now that the word internment camp is really an outdated term, it's just not, not what it was. It was an incarceration camp. And it's, you know, taken time and understanding and really learning more and working on this, you know, researching my family that I've come to understand the terminology that was used at the time during World War II and the terminology that we know now. And what exactly was going on many of the words that were used during World War II were to shape this narrative about what was going on, I mean, two-thirds of the people that were incarcerated, the Japanese Americans were US citizens, you know, they were forcibly removed from their homes, and they were sent to places all over the country. They sold all of their belongings and, you know, basically had to rebuild their lives, you know, after the war. So Um, yeah, I mean, it's kind of depressing, actually. But, I mean, it's a sad piece that I was asked to do. I was in high school, I was required to do a family history project. And that's kind of how this ball got rolling. I was required to interview my grandparents. And that's really when this all started. So, you know, 1982.

Rebecca Hoffman 05:30

So you were living your family was living in Berkeley, California, you're a teenager in high school, going through all the things that teenagers go through, and you're asked to do a family history, like oral history type project, what did you uncover?

Lourdes Nicholls  05:44

You know, I, again, I knew kind of this term that my mom was born in the camp, but I didn't really know. I heard family members talking about camp, but I thought it was summer camp. Honestly. I didn't really get it. You know, I was 15 years old at the time. And just, you know, growing up, I guess. So what happened was, this project was a requirement. My mom and I flew to Los Angeles, where her parents were. And for the first time, I think, ever, my mom said, they talked about what they endured while living at Manzanar. And it just brought a lot of shame to my family. A lot of, you know, hard times for sure. Prior to World War II, my grandfather had quite a life, you know, and I think that really that whole experience, and even after the war, after World War II, he actually worked for the US government and was a translator for the war crimes trials, which by the way, is probably one of the most disturbing things you can probably do. I mean, really, I mean, it's just unbelievable the things that he did, and I think it really depressed him quite a bit.

Rebecca Hoffman07:07

So your grandfather, pre World War II, he had an interesting job. But then he ended up in California, could you tell us, I guess the part that really affected me was the work that he did before there was ever a war. And then your family had a garden center. I'm gonna kind of talk for a minute about what he was like, how he was an expert in something, and then how did that end up becoming something he was able to use to survive Manzanar.

07:35

Um, so long story short, my grandfather was not a US citizen. My grandmother was, he came to the United States in 1916. He came to Los Angeles. Long story short, in the early 1920s. He made his way to Chicago, and he went to school at the Art Institute of Chicago. And while he was there, he met a man named George Harding Jr., and George Harding, Jr. was probably one of the wealthiest people in Chicago at the time. I know he was the first person to own an automobile. He added his own airplane. He had a mansion in the Hyde Park area. And he collected Arms and Armor and art from all over the world. And he met my grandfather and was very interested in him and his background and hired him to be his curator of all of the medieval items that he had and paintings and my grandfather worked for George Harding Jr. From the mid-1920s until 1940. And during that time, my grandfather lived at the mansion. He met Presidents, Vice Presidents, he met Al Capone, he met lots of dignitaries who came to the museum, which by the way, was the house, you know, before the Field Museum and other places people had like Driehaus, you know, they had private collections in their own home, right. Yeah. So, yeah. So my grandfather worked there. And, you know, again, I have newspaper articles. I have all sorts of history about that. Um, the ironic thing is, you know, George Harding, Jr. died unexpectedly in 1939. And that's kind of when things started to fall apart with, you know, with what was going to happen with my grandfather's job. And my grandfather and grandmother ended up moving to Los Angeles. I will say there is a happy ending to the George Harding collection is currently visible at the Art Institute of Chicago for many people who know the Chicagoland area. It's Sir, it's a real gem. And my family, we feel very fortunate because my grandfather's albums of the photos were used to put the displays together. Many of the things they weren't, as you know, had they'd never seen photos from inside the mansion the way, my grandfather took them. So kind of a nice part of being a part of, you know, living in the Chicagoland area. It's kind of a nice piece of history for our family.

Rebecca Hoffman10:30

Well, and I can add, it's probably one of the most popular displays. That's where people go because art comes to life when you see the medieval armor and all the accessories. So your grandfather enjoyed this tremendous this rarefied life here and then he goes to Los Angeles with your grandmother, and they buy or form a garden center.Correct. 

Lourdes Nicholls  10:53

Right. So my grandfather could not find a job as a curator, you know, when he went to Los Angeles, I mean, it's kind of a unique job. Apparently, my grandfather was going to be a curator of a museum in Manchuria. But my grandmother's family who was from Los Angeles didn't think it was a good idea in 1940 to go. So the only thing that my grandfather could piece together was to become a gardener. And that's what a lot of Japanese Americans were doing at that time. So he opened a garden center in Culver City. And he, had that garden center until, you know, until he went to Manzanar on December 7, 1941, it was actually my grandparent's fifth wedding anniversary, because they were born out they were married on that date, in 1936. And I can only imagine that their five-year wedding anniversary was a complete nightmare. And it really wasn't what they were envisioning. And then within about two months, on February 19, 1942, President Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066, which required all Japanese Americans whether or not they were American citizens or not living on the west coast, Washington, Oregon, California, and parts of Arizona to be sent to these incarceration centers.

Rebecca Hoffman12:30

Your family then had to make quick plans because there was no choice the government was going to force them to move. What did they do?

Lourdes Nicholls  12:39

Correct. So my grandfather, you know, my grandparents, from what I learned, had to sell everything or get rid of everything. And so they had to sell the nursery and the only person that they were able to find that was remotely interested in the nursery was the milkman who came to their house every day. My grandfather said, Are you interested? And he said, I only have $75. And so that's all that my grandfather got for the whole bird nursery. And Rebecca, you know, you've seen photos of it. I mean, it wasn't a small little shop. It was it was big. There was a pond. It was it gorgeous.

Rebecca Hoffman 13:20

Gorgeous plantings. Yeah, a little bit of a dream world. Yeah. So they got $75 for their family business. And they moved to Manzanar. Yeah. And yet, and I don't want to tell this part of the story, I  want you to tell it but yet when your grandparents get to Manzanar, your grandfather's still, in spite of this terribly adverse circumstance does something spectacular. What did he do there?

Lourdes Nicholls  13:43

So my grandfather, um, you know, I'm sure that it was a very scary time to, you know, board up go somewhere you don't know. Live in a 20 by 25-foot barrack. You know, build your own mattress out of straw. I mean, the pictures of what they had to do just to get into their accommodations. There's just nothing that you want to do. It wasn't until maybe about maybe less than six months after they arrived. They arrived in Manzanar on April 8, 1942. The head of Manzanar Ralph Merritt found out that my grandfather had worked at a museum and had this experience and he asked my grandfather to start a museum at the camp for the incarcerated. To show them what the rest of the world looks like and how they can, you know, things that they could do either participate or see things that they weren't used to seeing. So my grandfather created the visual education Museum, which was really to help young children who, by the way, maybe they had never been in a grocery store before, or maybe they had, they didn't know, you know, my grandfather wrote to all these places and asked for books and photos of like insects, animals, all sorts of things, and created a place for people to see exhibits and participate.  Some of the participants really, I think, got a lot out of it. I mean, as you know, like working with art or creating art, some amazing things came out of that. So absolutely amazing.

Rebecca Hoffman15:40

So, here's your grandfather and your grandmother, they're living in, they're incarcerated. This is not by choice, and he still creates basically a museum or a gallery for understanding the world. Correct. And this incarceration has an unknown end at this time, right. So he's building something. And famous artists came to see this gallery and showed some of their art there. Am I correct? Maybe a famous, photographer?

Lourdes Nicholls  16:07

I mean, you know, Ansel Adams and Dorothea Lange, were both hired by the government to take photos. So maybe you've seen some of these photos. And they are quite striking. The main thing to know about those photos is that those photographers were not allowed to take pictures of the barbed wire of the guard towers with guards inside with guns, you know, pointing towards the camp. So, Ansel Adams and Dorothea Lange, both captured the people that were there, and all of their daily life experiences. And my grandfather put together, you know, the Ansel Adams exhibit at Manzanar, which, luckily, I have a photo of. And Ansel Adams came back to Manzanar four times, I mean. He was regularly there and really had a lot of sympathy for the people who were there. I, unfortunately, I didn't get to talk to my grandfather about Ansel Adams, because I assumed that they had conversations. But I still, you know, I think that Ansel Adams photos, and the book that he wrote, called born free and equal, which actually ended up becoming a banned book and Ansel Adams was really not well received because he wanted people to understand that, you know, the Japanese Americans were not a threat, and that no Japanese American was ever convicted of any kind of crime or helping in any way during the war. So it's tragic, it's sad, it's a sad piece, actually.

Ray Loewe17:54

You know, let me interrupt and I don't know if you've noticed, but I haven't interrupted for 12 minutes. I never not interrupt for 12 minutes. I mean, what an incredible story. And I want to put this story in perspective a little bit because I hear you are Lourdes, You grew up in Berkeley, you moved to Chicago in 1991. You're a normal person. You have three kids, right? You have a job, which you like, right? And you're out running marathons, and you met everybody in the city of Oak Park so that every two blocks, you would have somebody to save you if you stumbled in a marathon? Right?

Lourdes Nicholls  18:32

I think I do. Yes, I hope I do.

Ray Loewe18:34

Yeah. So here you are. And then you get hit somewhere along the way with this incredible story as a 15-year-old, that probably no 15-year-old should have to face and yet you faced it. And it's become a project that you're running. Not In addition, not in addition to your life. You haven't dropped her life. You're running it like you normally did. And you're, spending time with this. So you've got this incredible story. Where's it going? What are you going to do with it?

Lourdes Nicholls  19:07

Good question. I mean, honestly, I love family history. I love anyone's family history. But my family history has become just a part-time job for me. I mean, it's always in the for, you know, it's always on my mind. I'm always trying to uncover new things. I would say that there was an exhibit in 2017. Then they came for me in Chicago, and then it went to New York City. I was asked to if I could come up with some documents or pieces for that exhibit. And that kind of got me reinvigorated in this whole piece of history. My mom was very reluctant. She really was not into talking about it. It brought a lot of shame to her family. But I will say that I'm bringing her to Manzanar, we went several times. And then going to the then they came for me exhibit in Chicago and New York. You know, she really started to understand more and accept it. I mean, she has said, she said for a long time it was intergenerational trauma, even though she didn't remember ever being at Manzanar as a baby. You know, it was part of her and her family. You know, so that has been kind of my, I don't know, I just something inside of me. I just keep moving forward, even though it's hard. My mom passed away about a year and a half ago. And, you know, she was my best friend and biggest cheerleader. I mean, that's, you know, so doing this by myself. I mean, I'm choked up just talking about it. It's really hard.

Ray Loewe20:56

But you have a movie coming out of this right. Or some film? 

Lourdes Nicholls  21:01

Well, I have.  I'm so lucky to have Rebecca who introduced me to Arielle Nobiles, who is working on a documentary called, well, the series is belonging in the USA. And she has picked amazing people and I'm lucky to be one of them to focus on and so that should be coming out. I think I'm hoping December 7, 2021, which is the 80th anniversary of Pearl Harbor day, and it's also the 30th anniversary of the day, my grandmother died. Because everything happens on December 7, and my family, my grandparents were married, Pearl Harbor day happened and my grandmother died on that day. So it's kind of bittersweet. But yeah.

Rebecca Hoffman21:52

I hope, spectacular history. And, you know, as I hear you speaking, I think, okay, if I'm just listening to this, and I don't know much, what can I see? What can I look at? I know the movie is coming out? It's not a movie. It's a documentary film that's coming out later this year. When I first met you, you said you need to watch the orange story, which is a short film, maybe 12-15 minutes. Right. 

Lourdes Nicholls  22:16

So orange story, yes. Which is I recommend to classrooms when I speak to them. It's at the orange story.org it's only 15 minutes. And so that you can get it in class. It was filmed here in Chicago by my friend Jason Matsumoto. And it really shows how Japanese Americans went from living everyday life like the three of us. And then suddenly, something happens and one particular person has to sell their business, pack things up. You know, it's heart-wrenching. Um, but I think that that's a really great intro. It's pretty much required viewing because then you can kind of be more up to speed, and especially, it's for all ages. I mean, kids, young kids can watch it and understand, you know, older adults, anybody. So

Ray Loewe23:16

Well, unfortunately, time is at its end. So Rebecca, do you have any final comments, Rebecca, and then we'll get some out of Lourdes?

Rebecca Hoffman23:25

Well, I you know, I just want to say thank you to Lourdes for sharing the story. And I hope that people who are listening to this will take their knowledge effort a little further, there's never been a better time to have a look at this chapter in American history. And consider, you know, what happened and how we can go one better we can do better?

Ray Loewe23:44

Yeah. And Lourdes, any final comments? 

Lourdes Nicholls  23:48

Just, I mean, I'm, I don't feel I mean, I feel like everyone has a story to tell me about their family. They just have to unlock it. And I've been, I keep trying to unlock more. But, um, yeah, it's been a bittersweet experience. But I'm still learning new things all the time. So it's, great. It's great. I love it.

Ray Loewe24:11

And thanks, everybody, for being here. Rebecca, thank you so much for being our co-host.  Time has flown by in four weeks. And everybody Join us next week, we're going to have a brand new co-host, I'm not telling in advance. And we've got some great guests. And hopefully, we'll see Lourdes at one of our cocktail events soon where you can actually sit down and ask her some questions about this whole process. So thank you guys, for being with us. Thank our listeners for being with us. And we'll see you again next week.

Kris Parsons24:46

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.

Guest Co-Host:  Rebecca Hoffman  [email protected]

Rebecca's Website:  www.GoodEggConcepts.com

Podcast Guest:  Jane Jacob  [email protected]

Jane's Website:  https://www.artverite.com/

Transcription:

Kris Parsons  0:03  

Welcome to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do it too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.

Ray Loewe  0:17  

Good morning, everybody. This is Ray Loewe and I am the luckiest guy in the world. And one of the reasons I'm the luckiest guy in the world is I'm sitting here in scenic downtown Woodbury, New Jersey, at the Wildfire, podcast studios, and with an engineer, Taylor, who absolutely takes all the care and worry about running a podcast off of me and makes this run. So we're here with our program, changing the rules. And let me take a minute and just refresh everybody's memory on rules, and why they need to be changed. You know, all during our lives, people throw rules at us. And they're still doing it today. I mean, we just had a whole series of COVID rules that were thrown at us. And when we get rules, they get to a point where they start to clutter our lives and start to get in the way. Rules either tend to be something that tells us what we have to do, or they tell us what we can't do. And at some point in our lives, we have to look at those rules and decide which of those rules are pertinent to us. And we have to figure out what our body of rules are going to be. And if you're living your life by somebody else's rules, you're living somebody else's lives. And only when you change the rules and make them your rules, do you become free to be you. And that's what this show is all about. And today, I actually have two guests, I have a guest host that I'm going to introduce in a second. And then we have a guest. So again, I'm lucky I get the best of all worlds. And they're both absolutely fascinating young ladies. And let's start with Rebecca Hoffman. And Rebecca has been our guest host for this month of April. And welcome to changing the rules, Rebecca.

Rebecca Hoffman  2:11  

Thanks, Ray, good to be here again with you this week.

Ray Loewe  2:14  

And I'm not gonna let you off the hook. We're gonna talk a little bit more about this good egg stuff. Okay. So I am, I met Rebecca, a good number of years ago, and, she was working on a marketing problem for me, and she introduced herself as the good egg. And I've always found this fascinating. Okay, and Rebecca, refresh our memory on why you're the good egg.

Rebecca Hoffman  2:39  

Well, it reaches back a long time ago, when I had to make my first email address and didn't know what an email handle should be. And my friend said, Be the good egg. And so I became the good egg many, many years before I ever was doing the sort of work I do now. And the name stuck as nicknames do.  

Ray Loewe  2:55  

And it's here, and the good egg is not broken. And in fact, the good egg is doing wonderful things. It's bringing life to new ideas. I think. So one of the things that Rebecca did for me a long ago and Oh, so far away, is she helped me craft a series of stories, which had been part of my marketing campaign. And, I'm not going to tell you the stories, you've probably heard them already. But we have the story about the airplane, and the hyenas, and the penguins, and the map, and the geezer jock, of all things. And one of the things I learned from Rebecca is the power of a good story. And what she is a master at is creating stories, and teaching people how to create stories that will become part of their brand and memorable to them. So that they get that kind of right, Rebecca?

Rebecca Hoffman  3:46  

Thank you. I as I like to say like, I need to spend more time with you, Ray? Because you make me feel

Ray Loewe  3:50  

well, and I'm not finished. I'm going to take this line out of your website, which absolutely fascinates me. So good egg concepts is an economical, thoughtful, clever, endlessly curious consulting firm focused on your goals for brand. And Rebecca, welcome to changing the rules.

Rebecca Hoffman  4:12  

Thank you, Ray.  It's good to be here with you.  

Ray Loewe  4:15  

And we have a guest today and this is a guest, we wouldn't have if you weren't being our guest host. And she is an absolutely fascinating, fascinating lady. And why don't you give us a little bit of background on Nicole, other than I want to start with one line and then we're gonna come back to this? This whole podcast is about from CIA to art sleuth?

Rebecca Hoffman  4:41  

Yes, that's a good hint. Well, I'd like to introduce Jane Jacobs, who I've known now for more than 20 years. We were introduced through some work we were able to do together and she hired me when I was quite young, and we work together at the Terra Museum of American Art in Chicago. And that's where I got to know Jane. But really, over the years, I've stayed in touch with Jane. We're friends, we've had the chance to collaborate a few times. But Jane is spectacular and that her entire career has focused on art, but not just art, really on the qualities of art that need to be protected and how to do that. And she's done this in a few different ways through an art consulting practice. And most recently now through the launch of artVerite.com.  Art Verite is her new, newest company launch a multimedia company that's providing documentary film to protect artists, and inform collectors and everyone who needs to know, in the art world. what's what. So I think, without further ado, we should introduce Jane and invite Jane into our conversation. And I think what would be really fun because Ray, you alluded to this, Jane had an interesting childhood. And if you could briefly tell us how your childhood possibly has informed your career. There's always tendrils reaching back, and we'd love to hear so thank you, Jane, for being with us.

Jane Jacob  6:06  

Oh, thank you so much, Rebecca, and Ray for this invitation to have a conversation with you all. To answer your question, Rebecca, I would very succinctly say that the Cold War crash with art for me. I'm the daughter of a CIA operative, and my life was spent moving around the world and included a stint where I began school in Okinawa, off the coast of Japan. And my father was always out of the country. And we were out he was out of the country that we were in, you know, so we kind of grew up with a mother who loved Jackie Onassis's statement, you may not like to do it, but we're going to get the job done. And so that's actually how I don't know if that was allowing me to break the rules early on in my life. But I learned, you know, to be a survivor.  We moved around the world, always, we usually moved in the middle of a semester. So we had to go in and create our time, you know, and persona into a community that already existed into a curriculum that we were behind on, and I learned to be a survivor. In the second grade in Okinawa, however, we had a Japanese art teacher. And at that time, many little girls aspired to be nurses, or teachers, or homemakers, none of which I was interested in. And that changed my life. It gave me a way to look at life through the lens of an artist. And so from that time on, I decided that that was what my path was going to be. So that's really what informed my early childhood,

Rebecca Hoffman  7:57  

And you have been changing the rules all the way through your career. Could you talk a little bit about some of the work you've done as we get ready to talk about your work through Art Verite? Yes, work that you did previously.

Jane Jacobs  8:09  

Yes,  I began my career in the art museum field. And where you and I met, I ended as the deputy director of the Terra Museum of American Art here in Chicago. And through that, I, when I did my master's degree, I did a case for registering works of art under the umbrella of the United Nations, by treaty by country. In the 1990s, the governmental information about World War II became a public document as it does after 50 years. And all of a sudden, there was this huge influx of stolen art in the subject of stolen art. And it interested me very, very much. And I conferred and partnered with an art attorney, which was my first relationship with an art attorney who served on the board of the Chicago, the Art Institute of Chicago. And it just got me to thinking about this problem of art and protecting it, and, you know, then the restitution, you know, that needed to take place. And so I began my career, you know, doing provenance research. And when I left the museum field and began my also parallel business to our Art Verite, Jacob Fine Art. We were consultants for people with art collections, institutions, these institutional collections, private collections, corporate collections, international collections. And people came to me and said, I have this but I'm not sure you know about where it came from.

Rebecca Hoffman  9:48  

So that's fascinating. And I think, as part of the run-up to this whole area of work and around fakes and forgeries, and art theft, you founded a symposium in New York. Could you tell us about what that was like?

Jane Jacob  10:02  

I did. I taught at New York University for over pretty much 12 years. And because this problem of criminal activity in the arts didn't seem to be going away, I mean, there's the famous quote of the FBI, perhaps 60% of the art in the marketplace is a fake or a forgery, pretty arresting. So I convinced my Dean that I would love to launch our crime conference, we launched it in London, and then brought it into New York City and had it for four years. And that was really the beginning of my quest to do something personally, about the problem with criminality in the artwork and protecting art for art history. And so

Rebecca Hoffman  10:50  

That's spectacular. And how now with Art Verite, are you protecting art? What are some of the ways your filmmaking is doing that?

Ray Loewe  11:01  

You know, could Can I interrupt for a minute? Rebecca, I'm going interrupt whether you like it or not. Okay. But can we go back a little bit and talk about some of the problems that museums have with knowing whether art is real? And, what the cost is of finding out? Maybe something is not real? And because I think it sets the stage for where we're going with the solution, that Jane brings to the table? Sure. Sure.

Jane Jacob  11:33  

Well, museums are not in you know, they're not without risk. When they collect art, because they collect an enormous amount of art, it comes from all different places. And so there have been many instances where museums have really gotten caught, you know, unknowingly, perhaps, too, with works of art that were stolen, or, and even artworks that were forgeries. And so in that, their whole reason for existing is to protect our collections. So having a piece of stolen art is a problem. Having a work that is purported to be by a particular art, artists corrupts art history, that's a problem. And so every institution is faced with these problems, as are private collectors. And so with museums, their hunger and thirst to build collections for the general public, and sometimes going in a specific path. For example, if you have the Art Institute of Chicago, for example, has many Monet's, more Monet's than any other museum outside of Paris. And so if you're going in a particular direction, and your appetite is of a voracious one, to collect the best collections for the general public, you are eventually you're going to get caught. The criminality component in this world is they're very good. They're very good. And they actually are able to, to pull the wool over, you know, experts eyes. And it's very complicated Ray, what you're talking about, in order to find out about a piece of art, it is very costly, in that it takes a lot of hours. I think a lot of people just think it may be the Antiques Roadshow, it is or it isn't. And that is not at all reality it's research and arduous years sometimes to find out whether there's a clear title, or whether it is an authentic piece of artwork. And then there's even within the system of experts. There are differences of opinions. And so it's very costly. It's costly to art history, the knowledge that we have that goes from generation to generation to learn about an artist, it's costly for those that invest in it and lose the money. I think we've addressed the fact that the court system has basically said you should be doing your due diligence and put the onus on the buyer, where reality is, is that the onus should be on those that are expert in the field of arts, and they're the ones that are contributing. Savvy museums ask better questions now. It continues to grow, it's not going away. It's not being solved by legislation. It's not being solved by just a catalog resume, which is a compendium of an artist's works. Every artist doesn't have a catalog resume. And so that's a costly endeavor to document every single piece of known artwork around the world for a particular artist. So you can see that the cost of these things can be enormous and the currency is not always money, the currency really the bottom line. And this is how Art Veritae has gotten involved with this. It's about your reputation. That's what we are positioned to do. We are putting together films which address the resolve to these problems in many ways. It's not always a case that's happened. It's a case that could happen. And with that, we are positioning institutions, collectors, attorneys, even artists for certain in a way that it saves them time, because we bring together all the experts, it saves them money because they could not go all over the world and find these experts, they may not invest in something that red flags have gone up about. And it saves them first and foremost reputation.

Ray Loewe  15:59  

Yeah, that's got to be the worst part of it is taking the blame when you find out you spent several million dollars on something that isn't real.

Jane Jacob  16:09  

Yeah, it's horrific, you know, it is. But to make everybody feel better, you know, it happens to the best of us. You know, it happens to major institutions all over the world, it happens to the Auction House when they can sign a work of art to sell. It happens to galleries, whenever they go out and buy a work of art. It certainly happens through estates, when you inherit works that you thought, your grandfather had this, you know, multimillion-dollar piece of art. And it turns out to be nothing more than a copy. So yeah, it happens to everybody. It definitely does.

Ray Loewe  16:46  

Yeah, no, I think this sets a stage for where you're going to go here. And I'll let you go off in that tangent in a minute. But, the other thing that I realized in looking at some of the material that you sent me is that it's not all about these famous, famous artists, the Van Gogh's and the Rembrandt's and all of these things. That's a whole series of problems. But what about the younger, less known artists? the up and coming ones? And, don't we have a whole series of issues and problems there, too?

Jane Jacob  17:16  

That's a very good question. And the answer is succinctly, yes. Emerging artists or artists, you know, who were in the beginnings of their career, even sometimes in the mid-career, where they may not be represented by a major institution or any institution at all, have just as many problems. They're commissioned to do works. Their works are consigned with galleries. They are involved in things where people want them to do which something that may be outside their bailiwick because they have an idea. But basically, looking at the way that galleries today, for example, do handshake deals, that is very, very much a general operative with many galleries. That's the way they've always done business. It's the status quo that happens to affect ours in many, many ways. If the gallery is not unscrupulous I mean, they may be just as honest as they can be, and really have the best interests at heart. They can also enter into things like bankruptcy. And if the artist doesn't know, for example, to file a UCC form, which is a $50 form, to protect their work in the case of bankruptcy, their artwork consigned to that gallery can become part of the liability of that settlement. Obviously, through COVID, and you've mentioned that Ray, there have been many, many times where galleries have shuttered. The art is in a storage facility that the artists can't have access to it. Also, there have been we are in the middle of doing a film where an artist's work was lent to an HBO pilot. And the dealer that organized that did not pay the artist it was if the pilot went into seasons, he would be paid for the pilot as well as the seasons. So it wasn't so we had to file a lawsuit. Artists who good-naturedly give their designs to commercial entities that they're just feeling like I just want to show you what I can do have had their designs stolen and used and put into production. So yes, emerging artists can have a lot of problems.

Rebecca Hoffman  19:43  

So what are some of the ways that your films are going to help? And what parts of the world will they touch? Because watching your first film that I've had a chance to see. It's extremely watchable, even just as a person in the world you can learn a lot and it's just extremely interesting, but then there's obviously a higher level of watching that people who care will be doing. So how will your films contribute to what's known?  

Jane Jacob  20:08  

Well, what we do is we bring together the most recognized experts in the world. What we do is what we call a symbiotic relationship, storytelling method. And that's a long, lots of commas in that, but basically, we bring together artists, or art stories about an artist, so all of our artists are not alive, that have had something happen, there's been a problem. And it had to be addressed either on the front end through an attorney to protect them or on the back end, through litigation, also an attorney to protect them. And so we feel like by bringing together these stories, and using the experts that may be forensic scientists, which talk about materials, they may be a gallery, you know, directors or personnel, they may be curators, the museum, that we bring all the information together on a platform that is usually viewed within an hour or less to provide for the watchers. And we'll get to the audience in a second, Rebecca, but to provide the watchers and the viewers, a thought a thinking process of like, hey, this could happen to me. What was done in this case, what could I do differently? One of the films that we've done about an artist I believe you've watched it, Dan Peterman, who's an international artists Chicago based, had an instance where his work of art was shipped from castle Germany back into Chicago, and it was horribly damaged. Well, he didn't take pictures beforehand, he definitely didn't consider that that was going to happen. And so while he did receive insurance, it was a year and a half settlement. His work of art wasn't restored for that amount of time. And it was one of his iconic works. And the insurance people in that, in that film actually go through and tell artists, what to think about, what should you think about what kinds of forms should you have? Should you use transit insurance, which doesn't cover, you know, a pittance of what the value of work is, and it's more expensive. So very pragmatic information is given in each one of our films, because the artists that are involved, or the storytellers be they attorneys or the FBI agents. They're very willing to be transparent about what went on, in particular instances where art crime or not even crime, but accidents or unforeseen circumstances happen. So there's great insight as far as here's what can happen, here's how you should think about it. Here's what you can do to protect yourself. That's what our films do. Our audience includes art attorneys, you know, the art consultants such as wealth strategists, family practices, insurance companies, which are financial as well, museums, galleries, auction houses, and of course, artists. So I'd love to get to that conversation about why the artist is so integral, and I know we will. But basically, these films are not just for artists, these films are for the nucleus that surrounds the art community. And so that's really, you know, our intent is to bring everybody into this community address all the problems, and to ultimately establish relationship in positive ways between the community. If I love you, I'll protect you. If you love me, I'll protect you. And so, basically, you know, that's the idea of Art Veritae.

Ray Loewe  24:14  

Cool, you know, unfortunately, Jane, we're getting near the end of our time, time flies when you're having fun. And, you know, I, you presented an interesting history here, you know, if I'm going to take you back to the CIA because I just think that's neat. But, I think the whole crux of your career was building towards this value that you're bringing to the table now. And I think you're being commended as an artist, an art scholar, a patron of the arts, and you know, you're it all comes down so that we can go to a museum, we can view the spectacular things when we know they're real, and we know something about them. So thank you.

Jane Jacob  24:54  

My pleasure. My pleasure.  

Ray Loewe  24:56  

Do you have any final comments you'd like to make before we wind up?

Jane Jacob  25:00  

You know, I'd love to just take a second and talk about why art is so integral to life and how people might consider thinking about it in a bit of a paradigm shift. One is, I think, we've had a conversation, initially about artists really speak through their medium, just like musicians, just like authors. They use a medium to express what's going on inside them. In fact, I define art history as history through the lens of the art. Artists are often social realists. Many, many people we know go into museums and go, my three-year-old could have done that. Why is this in a museum, and I really believe that one, you should have the permission not to like something, nobody, you should never feel embarrassed about going into a museum and not resonating with a work of art. We don't resonate with all the people that we encounter. I mean, some people we want to be best friends, I love Rebecca. And there are plenty of people that I meet in her field that, you know, I really just don't want to be their friend, you know, nothing negative is just we just don't resonate. And that is the way art is, it is an expression. So I just want to give this final story about my friend who is German who took me through an exhibition in New York City of German expressionist art. And I, my first encounter and I have a long time history in the art world was I just, I would never want to live with this on my wall. I don't, not that why was it in the museum collection, but I don't really want to look at this stuff. It's too painful, you know. And she took me through with the history of the Weimar in Germany during a time of depression and economic downturn. And this particular piece I was looking at was a drawing of a man in a top hat standing outside of a beautiful bourgeois restaurant, everybody drinking their martinis and dressed to the guild. And he was urinating on a man on the sidewalk. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, you know, what is this about? And she went on to explain to me what was going on in the Weimar. And of course, it opened up a whole new world to me, and I've done research, and I still don't want it on my wall over my breakfast table every morning. But I really believe that if people take the time to get to know the artist behind the artwork, that the ability to enjoy the conversation, is so much greater. And that is my hope for the world Ray.

Ray Loewe  27:40  

Well, I don't think there's a better way, to sum up. So you know, thank you so much for being with us and for opening my eyes to this world of art that I didn't understand before. And, thanks for being one of the luckiest people in the world. And thanks for sharing your journey and where it started and where it wound up with the rest of us. So hopefully, we'll get you to come to one of our cocktail conversations sometime and we can ask more specific questions to you.

Jane Jacob  28:08  

Love to I just want to say thank you so much for this conversation. It's been delightful,

Rebecca Hoffman  28:14  

Thank you, Jane.

Jane Jacob  28:15  

Thank you, Rebecca.

Ray Loewe  28:16  

And thank you and we'll see you guys next week with another exciting podcast.

Kris Parsons  28:23  

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world. 

Guest Co-host Rebecca Hoffman:  [email protected]

Rebecca's Website:  www.GoodEggConcepts.com

Podcast Guest:  Nicole Gordon:  [email protected]

Nicole's Website:  https://nicolegordon.com/

Transcription:

Kris Parsons  0:03  

Welcome to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do it too. Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as the luckiest guy in the world.

Ray Loewe  0:18  

Good morning, everybody. And we're here in our podcast studios, Wildfire podcast, and Woodbury, New Jersey. And we're here with our engineer Taylor. And just a quick word about Wildfire. You know, they have made this whole thing possible for us. We started this thing over a year ago, we had no idea how to do a podcast, we still don't know how to do a podcast. But Taylor runs everything for us. And it all works. So we're here with two interesting topics that I want to bring up before we get to our main guest, the name of our show is "Changing the Rules." And that's largely because we're all fed a body of rules throughout our life. And those rules are kind of forced us to conform in a certain way. And over time, some of those rules become not so relevant to us. And our point is that we need to grasp those rules that we want to adapt as ours. And only when you choose your own rules, do you become free to be you and to become one of the luckiest people in the world. And remember, the luckiest people in the world are those people who design their own lives, and then live them. And we're here today with a couple of the luckiest people in the world. And we're here to bring a message to more of the luckiest people in the world. So Rebecca Hoffman is going to be our co-host this month. And I'm excited about this for several reasons. First of all, Rebecca is, adding a new dimension to the guests that we're interviewing, because she's bringing on a lot of people that she knows that are lucky in different ways than traditionally we've, we've talked to people about. And so Rebecca is the leader, I guess it's the leader, CEO, manager,

Rebecca Hoffman  2:15  

right, Chairman,

Ray Loewe  2:16  

The head egg of good egg concepts. And again, I have to read this again, because I love this definition. Rebecca leads good egg concepts an economical, thoughtful, clever, endlessly curious consulting firm focused on your goals and brand. And she's based in the Chicago area. And she helped me tremendously because she is such a great storyteller. And she's helped me weave stories into my whole marketing campaign and my whole life. So Rebecca, welcome to changing the rules.

Rebecca Hoffman  2:52  

Thank you, Ray, really appreciate it's nice to be here with you and with our guest, Nicole Gordon. Hi. Hi, Nicole. Thank you for joining us today, I want to just say a couple things about you to the listening audience so they know where we're coming from, and then we'll go. Nicole Gordon is an artist living in the Chicago area, but working all over. Your art has been featured in galleries from coast to coast from New York City to Los Angeles, and you've had solo exhibitions, and most recently at the Bellevue Arts Museum, Bellevue, Washington. And I think what probably strikes people the most about your art are the themes, the colors, the textures, and we can talk a little bit about that. But you know, for our listening audience, if people want a peek, go to NicoleGordon.com, and you can kind of see what we're talking about as we go. Thank you for joining us.

Nicole Gordon  3:44  

Thanks for having me. So happy to be doing this.

Rebecca Hoffman  3:48  

Well, you know, you're an artist, and you're living and working in real life. And I think a lot of times people believe artists are like these, like this. It's like a fantasy world, which that's hard to achieve in everyday life. Right.

Nicole Gordon  4:02  

Yeah, I agree. I think that there's sort of this idea that artists sort of live on a whole different plane, and that we live in this other spectrum of our brain. And that, you know, it's all about sort of this creative inspiration and finding inspiration and living in this other place. But, you know, the reality is for myself, and I think a lot of people who would consider themselves pretty productive artists is that there is still this sense of, you know, needing to have a regular schedule, and needing to sort of keep at it every day, all the time. And this idea of sort of the creative spark, you know, it's a little bit more about just sticking with it and kind of working things every day to just like almost like a regular job and the more you work at it sort of the more productivity you have.  

Rebecca Hoffman  5:01  

Your regular job takes you into your studio and in your studio, you create worlds of fantasy. Do you want to talk a little bit about the discipline? Because I mean, we're always interrupted by email, and texts and telephone is ringing. How do you do that?  

Nicole Gordon  5:16  

Well, I have sort of the way that I have, the way that I work has changed dramatically over the years, you know, as I've gotten older as I have a family now that I have to attend to. And of course, with the pandemic, with this really odd scheduling, I've had to really adapt the way that I work to make it work so that I can still be productive. So maybe back in my 20s, when I could be in the studio all day and weekends. I could really spend more time being more sort of off the cuff with the way I work. And I could spend a lot of time working on one thing, where I say after a week, oh, that doesn't work. And I paint right over it because I had all the time in the world to sort of to work on it.  But nowadays, I've really honed my craft so that the studio time, which is very truncated, is more productive. So I do a lot of my sketching digitally now. And I've got a lot of my ideas worked out ahead of time I work very thematically, so I have these concepts that I work with. And I sort of input imagery that I love to these different designs. And by the time I get into the studio, I kind of have things mapped out a lot more thoroughly than I ever used to. And so what that does, yeah, it allows me to be really productive with my time I can go in, and sort of have a couple of hours here and there where I know I'm sort of moving the ball forward.

Ray Loewe  6:51  

You know, just to put this in perspective. Okay, so you're working in your home, but you're also raising two children. Is that correct?  

Nicole Gordon  7:01  

Three, yes, three children. There's a pair of them. They're twins.

Ray Loewe  7:06  

So how old are your kids?

Nicole Gordon  7:09  

I have a 11-year-old twin boys who are in fifth grade. And I have an eight-year-old son who is in second grade.

Ray Loewe  7:17  

So how does one you know I think we have a lot of people who listen to these podcasts who are saying, gee, I wish I could do what these people do? But I'm here at home, I manage a household I've got young kids running around, how do you do this? So what was your path? And how do you manage all of this?

Nicole Gordon  7:40  

I think that there's a couple of things at play here. One is feeling okay about saying I need time, that is just for myself. And it's really coming to terms with my kids are going to be okay, you know, I can make sure that they're fed and that they have their needs addressed. But they also understand that I'm an artist, and I have a job that is very important to me both emotionally and you know, financially, and that I require this time to get my work done. So there's sort of an expectation that's been sort of put on the table from an early age from them that they understand that this is something that I do and it's not really optional. The other thing is that I have really sort of trained myself, and this is a very important thing for me. So it's not something that I'm really willing to put aside. You know, maybe, obviously, in circumstances out of my control, but generally I make it part of my routine. And that might mean, in the last year, my routine isn't working nine to three like it used to be where I at least have these school hours. Now my time working might be you know, 10 to 1130, and then come down and make sure that they have lunch and then again back up at it from one to three. And just finding those moments that even if they're not the same all the time. And even if you have to sort of change the way that you work, just to keep going with it and making sure it is an integral part of your daily life. And it's amazing, you can actually get a lot done even in smaller amounts of time if you just keep doing it every day.

Rebecca Hoffman  9:31  

With focus, and I have to say I've I feel fortunate that I've been able to see your work across all the years that you've been working through a little bit of the work we've done together. And one of the things I observed is your work now does seem informed by this discipline, the subject matter of your art. Not always but often includes what I would just define as like an observer person who is often younger. You don't even necessarily see the face of that person, but the observer is looking at the subject matter of the painting with the person looking at the painting. Could you talk a little bit about the major motifs in your work? I just so the listeners know it's fantastical, but it's also realistic. And themes of the teacups and forest fires and earthquakes and pink flamingos.

Nicole Gordon  10:21  

Yep, I would say a generally a theme that runs through my work is looking at the world. In all of the good, the bad, and the ugly, and putting them together all of these disparate ideas and concepts into these narratives that are beautiful, and also haunting. And I, you know, these, these are things that tend to make up human existence that, you know, the yin and the yang, and we can't have beauty without decay. And a lot of it was inspired by sort of watching my children interact with the world. And this idea of finding beauty in the unknown and wanting for my kids to really take these moments to really sit quietly in the world, and not be constantly inundated with electronics and schedules and sports. And in realizing that these fleeting moments, of solitude and quiet, are really the most important thing that we have to fuel, our creativity and our ability to interact with the world creatively. And be thought-provoking humans. So the work is really about these dream-like worlds that we can create, within our own minds, if given that opportunity to be left alone. And these worlds are, again, filled with beauty. But there, it's also frightening, because as anybody might know, sitting alone with your thoughts, isn't always peaches, you know, you kind of have to dig deep. And sometimes that's a really terrifying place to be.

Rebecca Hoffman  12:01  

That's really interesting how you know, so you're a person, you do find beauty in that complexity and the difficulty of understanding what we could kind of broadly define as challenging moments or experiences.  

Nicole Godon

Oh, I find I love beauty in sort of those more difficult moments, I think that that's what I really look for is, and I use a lot of graffiti in my work. And I love this sort of really rough imagery, where there's layers, and layers, and layers of art. I considered very beautiful artwork, even things were that most people wouldn't find really beautiful. But this idea that you know, history is sort of layering on top of each other, and really finding beauty in things that are decaying and things that aren't meant to be beautiful. And I use a lot of imagery of amusement parks that are in various states of decay. And I use the amusement park imagery as something that conceptually stands for something that can be both thrilling and terrifying. At the same time or two different people, one person might look at and say this is like the greatest thing of my life. And somebody might say, you know, I wouldn't go near that with a 10-foot pole. So I like these images that mean different things to different people.  Because pandemic years have been periods of time of great creativity for people who had that within their soul. They say that Shakespeare wrote, you know, right through a pandemic, and it was a great time for focus. Do you find your work shifting at all during this pandemic experience that we're collectively having? Or do you feel like it's just providing you with more time to work on what you were already working on? Or is it informing your work in some way?

Nicole Gordon  13:58  

Oh, it's definitely informing my work. The work that I've done in the past year has been fairly directly related to what's been happening in this shutdown. And interestingly, of course, my work leading up to this has been about solitude and finding beauty in being alone. So in some funny ways, there has already been a connection to it, because of course, this is something that we've all been forced to do. And so the work is sort of a continuation on that, of finding sort of the ability to be alone and creating worlds for ourselves that are meaningful, while the world outside repairs itself. And so that's really what this new work is about is sort of like. Alright, we're all here together, alone, in our own little pods. And outside the world is trying to figure out you know, how to repair so how are we going to create beauty for ourselves in a world that's kind of, um, you know, it's not falling apart.  It's working on itself. You know, that's what?  

Ray Loewe  15:11  

No, go ahead Nicole finish your train of thought.

Nicole Gordon  15:13  

I was just gonna say that's what a lot of this newer work and newer imagery has really been about for me.

Ray Loewe  15:19  

You know, it's interesting to me because I consider myself an art Luddite. Okay, you know, I have no artistic background whatsoever. And, being able to talk to an artist and find out why they're creating and what their thinking is, as they create. And I think I told you the story, when we had our prep interview that I've been to most of the major museums in the world.  And I've come out of them and felt, you know, I didn't get it. And I think a lot of it is these five things. I mean, you'll like it or you don't, you know why you like it, you understand what the artist has in mind. And you understand how difficult the media is that you're working with. And, I guess there's a fifth one, I guess you can go to a famous art school and become an expert, and then you get to tell everybody what's important and what's not, right.  

Rebecca Hoffman  16:13  

But ultimately, it's what you express, that's what your viewer is moved by, or not moved by it.  But I think, you know, good art is emotional and it moves you. You may not even understand it, but you're compelled to look right.

Ray Loewe  16:30  

And that's what I'm finding and I'm it's gonna be interesting to go back and relook at some of your paintings. Having had this interview with you where I've got some insight into what you were thinking and what drives your thinking here.  

Nicole Gordon  16:48  

Yeah, I always think that that's an interesting thing. I tend to, you know, there's I love talking about my work and telling people sort of what was going on in my head. But equally, I love hearing what people have to say about it without having any being fed any information for me. Because I'm always amazed at things that people get out of it that are clearly a representation of what their personal story is. And I think when you're looking at art, and when you're interacting with art, so much of it, because you know, the artist isn't sitting there 99% of the time. I'm telling you, this is what you should be looking for. So really what it becomes, is a conversation between the viewer and their personal experiences that have shaped them. And how those experiences that have shaped them, make them reflect on the work. And I think because my work is so narrative, and it has a lot going on, there are a lot of different things that people can resonate with, that may resonate with them in completely different ways than maybe my initial intention. And I love hearing about those things as well, because they're is equally as important, if not more so because at the end of the day, it's really about that interaction more than my intention.

Ray Loewe  18:06  

Okay, so real quickly, I saw one of your paintings when I was going through your website, and it's a painting of a giant panda sitting in a sea of I think sunflowers.

Nicole Gordon  18:17  

Yes.

Ray Loewe  18:18  

Now I have a panda project that I've been working on in China, where we're working with a group of people to release baby pandas in the wild. That thing hit me right away.  

Nicole Gordon  18:28  

Ah, I love that. And then I didn't know that exactly, this is exactly what we're talking about. So that hit you in a way, because of your personal experience, that you can relate to that piece in a way much differently than anybody else.  

Ray Loewe  18:41  

And the color that you put in there. You know, I just got a kick out of the color the content and there's a certain amount of wimzie in there it it put a big smile on my face and made me feel good. How's that? Oh,

Nicole Gordon  18:56  

I like that. That's great. And that's, you know, I hope people do feel good when they're looking at my work. I think I tried to have wimzie, I tried to have beauty. And I tried to have a little bit of darkness, just to kind of make you think oh well makes it'll sort of make you stick with the work a little bit longer. And help you make you digested it a little bit.

Ray Loewe  19:17  

As you go through this journey that you're on, you know. You are obviously an artist early in your life and you know, created or gave a lot of time to your artwork, and then children came into play, and you still have young children. So you're stuck with that for a while. And that's going to have an influence on you. And you're well known now, and you get people who commissioned art from you, and then you do some of your stuff freelance too. Where are you going? You know what's the when this is all done. What's the impression that you want to leave to let everybody know that Nicole Gordon was here?  

Nicole Gordon  20:00  

You know I have to tell you that I tend to not think that broadly about that. You know, I don't think like, Oh, I want these paintings hanging around, you know, 100 years after I'm gone for my legacy. I would say that first and foremost, I create out of an absolute obsession and need to create. And that is, first and foremost for myself. And I. But that being said, part of being an artist, I think, in general, is also sharing that art with the world. So you can go, you know, I could sit in the studio and create, but I don't think that that in and of itself is a fulfillment. I think part of what takes it full circle is being able to take this work out of my studio and put it into the world for people to interact with and enjoy. And that has always been hugely important to me. And being able to have these exhibitions and pushing the work.  I'm never satisfied to kind of keep with the same thing too long. So I think for me, to have a long distinguished career means constantly moving my work into a new place into someplace that I may not have envisioned years before. And I'm continuing to sort of move off the canvas. And I've started to create these 3d based installation works, which initially, were very outside of my comfort zone. And I think in order to kind of keep relevant, and to keep making interesting work, you have to continually push yourself outside of your comfort zone. And move into different material usage and in different concepts in order to find new meaning with the work and why I'm making it.

Rebecca Hoffman  21:59  

That's very interesting because the major theme of this podcast is changing the rules. And we may have some listeners who are sitting at home thinking. I am not a creative person, I could never do what Nicole is doing. But I think creativity is a little bit like a muscle that either you use it or you don't use it or to varying degrees. Everybody has it. What would you say to people sitting at home who are thinking, gosh, I wish I could be like Nicole, I wish I could paint, I wish I could make things I wish I could express my unconscious experience of this world. However, that may be what would you say to people who would love to take a chance, but don't know how?

Nicole Gordon  22:36  

Well and this is exactly what I tell a lot of students as well. And I think that there is a lot of fear that keeps people from doing anything because people are so afraid of, let's say in artists making work and not having it be the best thing they've ever made. Or putting things out there and having it rejected. And the fact of the matter is, what I tell people is I said just make something every day, just put a little, you know, pencil to the paper, whatever material you want. And not everything you do has to be the best thing you've ever made. In fact, you know, as you said, it's a muscle and you just have to keep flexing it, and the more you do it, the more confident that you become. And that's kind of then where the wheels start moving in your head. And you might be able to start saying, Well if it weren't for this first mark I made, I wouldn't have thought, Oh, this might take me someplace else. And I think that you constantly have to just kind of keep working in order to find where that next thing may take you. And if you don't ever start, you're never going to know where to go.

Ray Loewe  23:47  

I think that it's about taking a chance. Yeah, I think that's great advice. And I think you've demonstrated why you're one of the luckiest people in the world. You've carved out your career. You make time for it, it's important to you and you just keep moving. And Rebecca, we are near the end of our time, unfortunately, do you have any summing comments that you want to make?

Rebecca Hoffman  24:09  

Well, it just all goes too fast. We could talk all day about the art. Thank you, Nicole, for being with us today and talking with us about your work a little bit.

Nicole Gordon  24:20  

No. It was my pleasure. Thank you for the insightful commentary.

Ray Loewe  24:23  

Do you have any closing comments, you want to make anything that's important that you want to say?

Nicole Gordon  24:30  

Yeah, I think that we hit on a lot of the big important things and I got to say a lot about how I feel about it. But I think that to close it out what I do think for people, the most important thing is, is to just sort of step outside of your comfort zone and just try something new because you never know where that might lead. And that's kind of what I continually do. And I think that's the most important thing for myself and for others who want to sort of kickstart any kind of creative career?

Ray Loewe  25:04  

So thanks, Nicole, for showing us how to break the rules and change the rules. You did good. Okay. And we're gonna close out this podcast and Rebecca Hoffman will be with me as guest host again in another week, and we have a couple more incredible guests. And they're all well, nobody's as interesting as Nicole, but they're up there. How's that? Okay. So, thanks for being yeah, thanks for being with us on changing the rules. And we'll see you again in a week.

Nicole Gordon  25:37  

Good. Thanks so much.

Kris Parsons  25:41  

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too. Join us with your lively host of Ray Loewe, better known as the Luckiest Guy in the World.  

Co-host:  Rebecca Hoffman:  [email protected]

Rebecca's website:  www.GoodEggConcepts.com

Podcast Guest:  Rabbi Ari Moffic Email:  [email protected]

Podcast Transcription:

Kris Parsons  0:03  

Welcome to "Changing the Rules," a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do it too.  Join us with your life, the host Ray Loewe, better known as The Luckiest Guy in the World.

Ray Loewe  0:17  

Good morning, everybody. This is Ray Loewe. And I'm sitting here in wonderful Woodbury, New Jersey at the Wildfire Podcast Studios with our engineer Taylor, manning the foreword over here and he's going to keep me straight and make sure that this podcast goes through because I'm a technical Luddite. But I've got some great things to talk to you about today. First of all, let me recap what "Changing the Rules" is all about, and "Changing the Rules" is a podcast that we developed for The Luckiest People in the World. And it's to help them become luckier and luckier and luckier.  The Luckiest People in the World are those people who invent their own lives, and design them constantly as things change, and then live them to the fullest. And "Changing the Rules" is about one of the factors that we have to go through to do that. You know, throughout our lives, we've all been given rules. And those rules started with our parents when we were growing up. And then they went to the schools, and then they went to our church or synagogue. And then they went to our jobs, and everybody seems to have rules for us. And those rules generally are good, because they add structure to our life, but over time what happens is they add clutter to our life. And a lot of those rules that we are given are no longer as important or critical to, to our lives. And one of the things that we found is that if you're living your life by other people's rules, you can't really truly live your own life, you're living somebody else's life. And that's what the show is all about. And I'm excited today because I have a co-host today and Rebecca Hoffman is going to be our co-host for the next month. Okay. And she's going to do a whole lot of interesting things for us. So good morning, Rebecca.  

Rebecca Hoffman  2:14  

Hi, Ray, how are you?  

Ray Loewe  2:16  

You know, let me introduce you and I want to read something that I took off of your website or your LinkedIn post. You run a company called Good Egg Concepts. Okay, it's true. And it is, quote, "an economical, thoughtful, clever, endlessly curious consulting firm, focused on your goals and brand."  And so, I got a couple of quick questions for you. You know, first of all, tell us real quickly how Good Egg Concepts, how you got that name?

Rebecca Hoffman  2:56  

Well, Good Egg comes from many years ago, when I made my first email address when the internet was just getting started. And I asked a friend, what should my email handle be? And they said, well, you're a good egg, be the good egg at blah, blah, blah. And I became the good egg and the name never left, the good egg just stuck around and became the name of my consulting practice many years ago.  

Ray Loewe  3:16  

Well, it certainly is a unique brand. And it certainly is a clever brand and a thoughtful brand. And it's an I don't know about the endlessly curious though. Where did that one come from?  

Rebecca Hoffman  3:27  

Well, I think to your point, when you talk about the luckiest people in the world, one of the marks of a lucky person is someone who remains curious, which means always finding something interesting along the way in life. I think that's where that comes from.  

Ray Loewe  3:40  

Absolutely. Absolutely. And let me add one other thing. Rebecca is a storyteller. And she is one of my favorite storytellers. And she's a storyteller coach, I kind of stumbled on that one.  

Rebecca Hoffman  3:55  

That is true. That is true. You know, a good story. We need those.  

Ray Loewe  4:00  

Well, absolutely. And, a good story beats everything. And boy, do we have a good story for us this morning. Okay. And why don't I let Rebecca introduce Ari? And then I've stored up my questions. So you got to let me in there sometime.  

Rebecca Hoffman  4:19  

Okay, okay. Well, I would like to tell our listening audience that I would like to introduce Rabbi Ari Moffic, who is someone I've worked with and I call her a dear friend as well. She's currently the Director of Education at Temple Beth el in Northbrook, Illinois. But previous to that she's done some very interesting and kind of groundbreaking work in her rabbinate. She founded a concierge rabbinic practice and worked with people in an independent way bringing Judaism into people's homes and also worked with an organization that was devoted and dedicated to working with interfaith couples and interfaith families around the United States and actually in the world. And she's also the author of a book, which you can find on Amazon that's called "Love Remains a Rashanna Story of Transformation" about a family experiencing the growth and transformation of a child who is expressing themselves in a transgender way. And I know Ari so well, I have to say, I'm just thrilled to be able to talk with her this morning. You have a wonderful sense of humor and a wonderful look on life. And I think Ray, you know when we started talking with Ari, before this session, we were talking a lot about how did you become? And really, I think it's interesting to hear how did you choose to become a rabbi?

Rabbi Ari Moffic  5:44  

Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be part of this conversation.  And I love hopeful, optimistic podcasts and stories. So I'm happy to be here. You know, it may seem like a very unusual career to become a clergy person. But somehow for me, it seemed kind of normal, I don't know. But you know, I grew up in a secular ish, Jewish Home in the suburbs of Boston.  

We belong to a congregation at a synagogue we went to. Fairly often we did all of the Jewish holidays, I was very close to my grandparents who were very ethnically, culturally Jewish. My uncle, my mom's brother is a reformed rabbi, I was very close with my Jewish Sunday school teachers. I was just one of those unusual kids who actually liked Sunday school, local thing turned me on. I loved thinking about God, the way the world works, ethics, philosophizing, and I did all the Jewish youth group things, I spent a semester of high school in Israel. And, you know, I just, I, that's just how the path unfolded. I knew I wasn't going to be a pulpit, congregational rabbi, for a lot of reasons. I'm sort of an introvert weirdly.

But I did a master's in Jewish education. And so I've based my rabbinate in it in education. And along the way, I've done a lot of lifecycle events, so that kids,  

Rebecca Hoffman  7:29  

Can you talk a little bit about your Rabbinate that  you are "Changing the Rules." I mean, Ray, is working very hard through this podcast and his other initiatives to help people see that when you change your rules, you can become the luckiest person in the world and feel like life has been extremely fulfilling along the way. How are you changing the rules? through your rabbinate I know, you work hard, and the space around inclusivity and this notion, we talk a lot about of what is a community? And how do we use that phrase, and what does that mean? Right? Talk a little bit about that.  

Rabbi Ari Moffic  8:03  

I mean, I think for a lot of us, life happens and because of just how things unfold, you get a lens that you might not have ever had, by training or on purpose kind of, and this is what happened to me.  I went to the reform rabbinical seminary, there's no choice there's one place to go. And you go through the whole program and truthfully, it's just very in the box and you do the classes and you learn the stuff.  

And you know, they turn you out to kind of be you know, to serve the how they I think they understand the mainstream of the people. But for me, what happens is that my oldest friend, I called her parents aunt and uncle growing up, although you know, they weren't really but with that so close we were.  She ended up marrying someone Catholic. She grew up Jewish, and I was in my last year of rabbinical school. She asked me to stand with her at her wedding. I wasn't allowed to officiate, but I sort of co-officiated, you know.  And through that process of meeting their priest, figuring out how they understood religion, what they imagined it would be in terms of raising kids what we were doing.  I found that so exciting and so modern, and so interesting, and such an honor to represent Judaism at that time that I just that's how my life ended up going. And luckily, I just landed in these places where that was celebrated. And so we my husband is also a rabbi. We ended up we started with at Chicago Sinai congregation which is a historic. It was a classical reformed congregation, which is a very interesting part of reformed Judaism where they did services almost all in English. They even had Sunday services. It was a very American version of Judaism. And they celebrated interfaith families, in fact, had a partnership with the fourth Presbyterian Church right down the street in Chicago there. And so we learned so much about interfaith weddings, counseling families.  

And then I ended up being an educator at a congregation in Wilmette, Sukkot, a little more, almost all of the children at that time in my religious school had a parent who wasn't Jewish, and the families wanted Judaism in their lives. And again, we had a very close connection with the neighborhood church. And this just grew for me, this era, this interest in these blended, layered interesting families, who had so I mean, talk about stories. Each family has such an interesting story and somehow, Miracle of miracles, Judaism is part of it. Yeah, I was like, Yes, that's me. I want to be there.  

Ray Loewe  11:01  

You know, and that you're talking about me here, you know that. So I was born, my father was Jewish, my mother was Catholic. I was raised as a Methodist because we had a Methodist Church on the corner of the street. And my parents thought that religion was an important thing. And so it's, interesting to hear you talk about this. I never felt the strength, I probably felt the strength more of the Protestant side of things in anything else. But this whole concept of interfaith stuff intrigues me and so go on I'm sorry, interrupt.  

Rabbi Ari Moffic  11:38  

Well, that's it. But you know, at some point, today, over 70%, of Jews partner with someone not Jewish, if you can survey as reform, you know, specifically reform, it's over 80%. So, the people, I've kind of spoken and we are in an open global society, and people fall in love. And so that's really made rabbis liberal rabbis, figure out how can they be there? How do they want to be there? What do they have to change ritual in order to be there and talk about boundaries and opening the tent? You know, that's where the conversation is.  

Rebecca Hoffman  12:17  

Can you talk a little bit also, by extension, about the recent Gallup poll, that showing the steep decline in American affiliation with what we could largely call organized religion or affiliation with a specific house of worship? But how does that dovetail with your experience as a disrupter in the rabbinic world and the, you know, Judaic interfaith world?  

Rabbi Ari Moffic  12:39  

Yes. You know, sometimes, I think rabbinic colleagues are worried that our participation is somehow allowing, you know, a new religion or a third religion.  That by saying yes to everything, and not really sticking to, you know, in a kind and loving way, kind of sticking to some boundaries, that there won't be anything authentically Jewish going forward, and we're going to kind of lose it to secularism, or to some kind of, you know, what they may say, is some kind of watered-down Judeo Christianity.  You know, be a good person, I don't see that. I don't see that I've never seen that. I think for a lot of families, ritual continues to be very important customs, their family traditions, the holidays, but they are doing it in different ways. And we see now from the Gallup poll, that the majority of Americans say that they're not connected to a specific bricks-and-mortar house of worship. That doesn't mean they're not spiritual. That doesn't mean they're not doing the holidays and life cycle events. The institutional religion of America has to change because the people have said it has to.  

Rebecca Hoffman  14:08  

So, Ray and Ari, that's really an aspect of changing the rules, right? It's an evolution.  

Ray Loewe  14:16  

Well, there's no question that the rules are changing. And this, especially in this sector, you know, one of the things that.  I didn't get a chance to do this last week, but I noticed that you and your husband did a podcast or a broadcast of some kind. About faith and religious traditions, and will they be relevant in the future? And I think what you're saying is they will be relevant, they're just going to be different.

Rabbi Ari Moffic  14:41  

Yes, yes, exactly. I think that's the key. We're not Yes. 

The narrative is changing, and we're going to have to run in,  you know, as religious leaders run and keep up to if we want to be part of it. Yes. The main thing we talked about in that webinar,

was kind of Our word of the day was fluidity. And we were talking about how fluid life is today, especially with this last year of the pandemic.  The fluidity between home and work, the fluidity between public and private, and even in terms of a Facebook account, you know where it is your work and your brand and your personal it all blends. It's all fluid.

Fluidity of gender, fluidity of roles, roles in life, and definitely fluidity in terms of religion, that people feel inspired by all different religious traditions. People have different gurus and leaders they follow.  

They are personally touched by different religious practices. We are in multicultural families. And so for mainstream organized religion, I think it's going to be important to embrace this fluidity with open arms. Okay, it's fascinating.

Ray Loewe  16:03  

It is fascinating. And, you know, one of the things that when I when we did our pre-interview, you talked a little bit about the state of marriage today to do you want to comment on that?

Rabbi Ari Moffic  16:14  

Well, yeah, I mean, I think young people see marriage in all different ways. I mean, for some people, it's still, you know, a beautiful covenant. Some people don't want to enter into the institution, and they live as partners. There's polyamorous families, there's all different kinds of families, there are single parents by choice, blended, layered.  I mean, even thinking about a nuclear family, whatever you're thinking of, in your mind, you know, expand it out, you know, because they're their families come in all shapes, sizes, ways. And that's another thing that impacts religion.

Rebecca Hoffman  17:00  

These expressions of diversity that emanate from this the core of the home, in a marriage or in the home, or the family. How do you help people feel connected in a world that it does appear to be so connected? And yet there's so much loneliness and such a sense of disconnection? What, as a rabbi, how do you help people feel connected and feel a sense of I mean, the wrong word probably to use is community?  But that's kind of the word we've always used. Where's that going?  

Rabbi Ari Moffic  17:27  

Yes, community, religious leaders use this word all the time, you know, especially on a website.  Join our welcoming community.  And it's, I think, it's because especially in Judaism, community is everything. We are a people, you know, more than almost anything, if you can even argue Judaism as a religion. You know, that's one piece of the Jewish civilization. But it's really about community and peoplehood. You can't pray with less than 10 people. You know,  Ruth's famous line, in the Bible, your people, will be my people, your God, my God, so people before God.

And it within more traditional orthodox communities, people kind of live together, they see each other at the kosher butcher, they see each other at the synagogue.  They have the religious day school and your lives are intertwined. And you just take care of each other in that religious sense where you are responsible for the community. And for more liberal Jews, where we're spread out in the suburbs, or in an urban area, community takes on a different way. Because when you think about who are your closest people? Who's someone you would you know, text if you've got a flat tire on the side of the road? Who can grab your kids? If you've got the stomach flu? Who are your core people in life? Who is your emergency contact? That's kind of your community? And then, you know, so does a synagogue or church kind of have to be a community? Do you need that from that? Or are people looking for something else from their house of worship, that's their way for education. That's their center where they can come do the services and holidays. But they, need that sense of community life. And then for some people, they do want that sense where they want to feel part of something bigger than themselves. They want to feel that their community works too, you know, make a change in their neighborhood, and even in the world. And so it's a balance, I think it's for sure a balance in terms of talking about it realistically of what a group a religious group can accomplish and be.  And knowing that with our busy, stressful lives, sometimes we just want to know that there's a place where we belong and that there are people who care about us.  

Ray Loewe  19:54  

You know, let's go back a little bit because you started out kind of in the traditional course of being a rabbi, I think.  You know, you had strong roots as to why you wanted to take this path. Now you've thrown into all of these things that are changing in here. How is this changing your course of action and the way you treat your job? And your career?  

Rabbi Ari Moffic  20:19  

Yes, you know, I've been the director of religious schools for many years now. And that's what I'm doing now. And so I think so deeply. And I really do the sacred struggle of figuring out what the point is, and why children come on Sundays for a couple of hours. And they come during the week to learn the Hebrew. And I really take very seriously what we're doing and what I'm sharing with the children.  And what, you know what this experience is about because I don't want it to be anthropologic. Where I'm saying, children, you know, the Jewish people, you know, did this thing, Shabbat, but, you know, we, what I'm telling you has nothing to do with our lives, and we don't do it in that way. And maybe you're thinking that's the right way to do it. But none of us do it that way. So we're all doing it wrong, you know, I'm very careful not to have that narrative. And to say, you know, some people have this practice, some people have this practice. And what we want to figure out is, Shabbat, let's say the Sabbath day is a gift for humanity telling us imploring us to rest. To stop. To put down the phones for a minute, to look at the people in your homes. And, you know, look at each other in the eye say, Hello, we live together, how are you. You know, and to have a good meal together, to go for a walk, to study something of interest. This is the gift of the Sabbath of Shabbat of coming together even in prayer or song, but it's going to look, differently, maybe then the textbook shows it. So I'm always trying to translate for a modern sensibility truly, and make sure that we're not alienating people but drawing people in.  

Rebecca Hoffman  22:08  

How would you tell our listeners, as they hear this discussion, how they might go about their life to find even greater fulfillment without judgment within their faith? Or what if they're of interfaith? And they're mixed?  

Rabbi Ari Moffic  22:22  

Yes. I mean, I think finding like-minded people and is where this community comes in. And some people are finding it online. And definitely, I think people yearn for in real life as well. So you know, don't give up there are so many creative things happening in religion.  Truly start-up churches, congregations meeting and all different interesting places. Third places, there are clergy, people who are of the people with you struggling to have meaning in life. And don't give up keep looking for like-minded people, and, you know, be vulnerable in it and try to, you know, figuring out how we are now as adults.  Not what we felt at 12 or 13, or 15, or, you know, 20 or whatever. But now, what do you believe about the world? Now? What do you believe is out there? How do you make sense in order of existence and our purpose in life? And, you know, if you care about those things, and that kind of is interesting to you, then there's going to be, I think there will probably be religious, cultural things that will speak to you.  

Ray Loewe  23:41  

Okay, we're getting near the end of our time, unfortunately, time flies fast when you're telling good stories, right, Rebecca? Right, absolutely. It does go too fast. So are you Do you have any last comments that you want to make that you want people to think about? Or sum up somehow?

Rabbi Ari Moffic  23:58  

I guess, just you know, maybe, if you have found a community, or a method, or a practice, that works for you, that's so wonderful. And if you're looking or searching and things haven't really clicked for religion, or you're unsure. You know, realize that things are changing they are. Be part of it, be part of the conversation, talk to religious leaders about where you are and what you're interested in. And, you know, what, we can't wait to meet people who are interested, because that's really, that will be key for us going forward.  

Ray Loewe  24:39  

Cool. Well, thanks very much for being with us. You certainly have made changes in your life, you're certainly are continuing to change in your life. And I think you've found the pathway to become one of the luckiest people in the world. So welcome to our community to Ari.  Thank you. Thank you. It was wonderful.  Ari you thanks again for being with us. And Rebecca and I will be back next week with another wonderful podcast. Showing another part of Rebecca's great storytelling, whatever. Okay. So thanks for being with us and we'll see you all again next week. Thank you.

Kris Parsons  25:21  

Thank you for listening to changing the rules, a weekly podcast about people who are living their best life and how you can figure out how to do that too.  Join us with your lively host Ray Loewe, better known as The Luckiest Guy in the World. 

Find Connie Nelson on Facebook at Nature-Child Reunion

Connie's latest book, "Oakie Dokie's Happy Roots"

TRANSCRIPT

This is Changing the Rules. A podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:13  

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Changing the Rules. I'm KC Dempster. And I'm here with Ray Loewe in Wildfire Studios in beautiful downtown Woodbury, New Jersey. And our podcast is about people who take control of their lives, and all of the ways that they can do with the things that they might have to face. And, you know, change is difficult. So we're here to support you.

Ray Loewe  0:40  

Yes. And we're actually here at Wildfire Radio and Podcasting Studios at 65. Cooper Street.

KC Dempster  0:47  

Fancy

Ray Loewe  0:48  

The reason I'm saying this, I'm getting fan mail here now. And I want to encourage this, and we have our engineer totally jealous. Okay, because he's not getting fan mail. And I am. So Taylor it's tough. Come on the air with us next time, and we'll get you fan mail.

KC Dempster  1:05  

Right, right.

Ray Loewe  1:06  

Okay, so we're here as usual, and we're talking about the luckiest people in the world. And we have another one today. Yes. And, again, reminding everybody, the luckiest people in the world are those people that kind of design their own life. And then they live it under their own terms. And it often doesn't happen easily to do that. And you're gonna see from some of our guests that there's a sequence to it, and and you have to take advantage of opportunities, and you have to be willing to change.

KC Dempster  1:41  

Correct, correct. And we call these people the luckiest people in the world. But the clue is that the definition of luck is preparation and opportunity. So if you're preparing, when the opportunity presents itself, you're ready, and you can grab it. And that's really what luck is.

Ray Loewe  2:00  

Yeah. But one of the things that again, people need to me, we talked about changing the rules here. And it's great to think about changing the rules and how you'd like to do things. But sooner or later that word change actually comes into play. And you're going to find that when you talk to all of the people we interview here is that they made the change occur. Didn't happen just by snapping their finger.

KC Dempster  2:25  

And that's part of the preparation

Ray Loewe  2:27  

except in this case Because we have with us Mother Nature. Yes. And you can't fool Mother Nature, because she may snap her fingers and we get a thunderbolt coming down. Yeah, she's gonna cause the change. Yeah. So. So we have imported Connie Nelson. Yes. Okay. Who really is Mother Nature and it's aka Connie Nelson. It's not the other way around in this case, right? That's right. Right. So Connie, say hi to everybody and do it like, like, Mother Nature, would. That's  why, you know, you wrote a book about talking to trees and things like that. And we're gonna get into that later because they're, they're significant. But let's start a little bit about you. And in your case, you've probably been closer to Mother Nature all of your life than most people have because of your dad. Right?

Connie  Nelson  3:30  

Correct. Yes.

Ray Loewe  3:31  

So tell us a little bit about your dad the influence that he had in your life, his background a little bit and how all of this stuff just started.

Connie  Nelson  3:40  

Okay, well, first of all, I'm one of the luckiest people in the world because I grew up happy. And I grew up. Of course, that doesn't mean that storms didn't come. But I grew up with a light inside of me if I think because my my father had me out in nature so much. And we would walk the hills of West Virginia. And he would point out, for instance, a weed he had say, Connie girl, one of these days, cancer, a cure for cancer might be found in that weed. So I learned to love even the weeds and apply that in my life. Because you know, we run into people sometimes that we might kill sort of consider weeds, but I learned to love them too. But yeah, my dad was a was probably he planted the seed inside of me to explore and discover in nature. And then later on that became when I became older and an adult and had my own child that became even more important,

KC Dempster  4:46  

right, because what did he do when you had your own child?

Connie  Nelson  4:51  

Well, it was a tradition to you are he in our family that with the birth of my parents, grandchildren, they would bring a baby Retreat, my dad would bring a baby tree. And of course, my mom would come along, and my dad would plant that tree with the birth of our children. And then when our when, when my son became old enough, two or three years old, they would go out together and tend to that tree that my dad planted for, for my son to grow up with. And so that became a very teachable, a very impressionable moment. And I'll bet you that people that are listening can think of something in their lifetime, and experience outdoors in nature that has stuck with them all throughout their their adult, and they're growing. And that was what really stuck with me.

Ray Loewe  5:44  

Now your dad was either part or all Native American. Is that true?

Connie  Nelson  5:48  

He was he was about half Cherokee.

Ray Loewe  5:52  

So did this have an incfluence On all this,

Connie  Nelson  5:56  

I'm sure it probably did. Because he had a real symbiotic relationship with nature. I mean, he watched the weather he planted by the weather by the moon's by the old Farmer's Almanac, if you remember that, yeah. And so he had, and he would raise herbs, a lot of like, echinacea for instance, which comes from purple coneflower, he would raise all these things.

KC Dempster  6:23  

Right, right. So he he was at one with nature if you want, if you will. I mean, that sounds

Connie  Nelson  6:28  

that's a good way of putting it. Yeah,

KC Dempster  6:30  

it sounds a little cliche, but sometimes the cliches are cliches because they're true. Okay.

Connie  Nelson  6:36  

Yeah. The web of life. Yeah. So now,

Ray Loewe  6:39  

we have you figured out now we know the roots of Mother Nature. And, and so you went on to become a teacher, right? And that's primarily what you consider yourself to be, I believe?

Connie  Nelson  6:52  

Well, I'm a nature educator. I never actually had a job where I taught in the classroom, although my degree I have a degree in education. But I applied that degree to creating nature, outdoor education programs for organizations, and corporations and schools, whoever would ask me,

Ray Loewe  7:14  

and you've done some things for McDonald's, and you've done some things for the Boy Scouts.

Connie  Nelson  7:18  

I've worked at. Yeah, yeah. created, developed, created and developed a very in depth outdoor educational program, K through five across the STEM curriculum for the Boy Scouts of America. And but I have also done campaigns with McDonald's, some school programs with Walmart. And the thing with me is I'm not in this mission. My mission is the nature child reunion, guys, but I'll tell you, I'm not in this. For the income, I'm in it for the outcome.

Ray Loewe  7:48  

Well, let's get some income to help you with the outcome.

Connie  Nelson  7:54  

A little income to help with the outcome.

Ray Loewe  7:56  

Okay, so when we were talking earlier, you we're talking about your sweet spot for people that you want to educate as at four to eight year old group, right?

Connie  Nelson  8:10  

Children is, is, as I say, so many times when I'm speaking, children are born with an innate sense of wonder for nature. And so it's up to us as we nurture them and help them grow up healthy, strong and smart. It's up to us not to program that out of them. But to keep you in a sense of wonder for nature fresh and alive during that impressionable age, which there's a lot of gravy before four and a lot of gravy after eight. But I would say four to eight is the sweet spot.

Ray Loewe  8:42  

And what we want to do is keep them off those cell phones, right?

KC Dempster  8:46  

And other devices.

Ray Loewe  8:49  

All right, yeah.

So you and your process of doing this have created a whole lot of characters. Now. Now hold the story here for a minute because you don't want to jump the gun on these too good, they're too good to get out there. But and you have a book that's come out and what's the name of your book that just came out?

Connie  Nelson  9:07  

This is the softcover and I have the hardcover behind me. This is half Oakie Dokie's Happy Roots. Oakie Dokie is a young little sprout. He's an oak tree. And he discovers the six roots of growing up happy in this book and shares that with with children. And he also learns a very important concept that will help us be happy as we grow up. And that's called forgiveness. So that's Yeah, that's that's the the gist of this book. And it's all about connecting kids with nature. And my mission, like I said, is a nature child reunion. So this is one of the books one book of many more to come. That, that, that do that.

Ray Loewe  9:53  

Okay, so hold that thought we're gonna come back to that. But one of the things that I think makes you unique is you have to In your natural your nature experiences and you've related concepts of life to characters found in nature. And then you created characters to make these things meaningful. So for example, talk to me about never say can't.

Connie  Nelson  10:22  

Okay? Be happy to. First let me say, though, that I'm that my mission is to reconnect children with the marvelous intelligence of nature. And to do that by creating and nurturing nature connections that they can relate to. And these characters that you're talking about, help a child to connect with all the marvelous, marvelous intelligence and wisdom that's found in nature. So Antonio Ant Never Says, Can't. Let me tell you about this little ant. When he looks at a big job ahead of him, he does not start thinking of all the ways and reasons why he cannot do that job. And says, you know, carry 1000s times more their weight and their load than then their size. So, Antonio never looks at that big load over there and says, Well, I can't carry that, you know, he just does it. So he has a can do attitude. And so through Antonio Ant, and the episeed I call them episeeds about Antonio, and every episeed is an episode that plants a very powerful seed of learning in the child's heart, mind, spirit, the whole child. And so Antonio Ant is just one of those characters that I use to teach children. I can do attitude, and never look at a job and say, I'm too little to do that. Because size you know, is is irrelevant when it comes to doing a lot of a lot of important jobs. Cool.

Ray Loewe  12:01  

I love this Episeed thing. We're going to change our podcast we have episodes on our podcast Connie. I don't know which one you're up in like Episode 62 or three or something like that. We're going to change over to episeeds. And you're going to be planted my garden somewhere.

Connie  Nelson  12:18  

Do I get a licensing fee for that?

Ray Loewe  12:20  

So anyway, you know,

KC Dempster  12:25  

you've left him speechless.

Ray Loewe  12:28  

Let's go on. We talked about Antonio Ant you get too many good ones of this. You have another one here. I bought a cocoon and a butterfly. Okay. Talk to me about that one.

Connie  Nelson  12:40  

Have you ever seen a cocoon?

Ray Loewe  12:42  

Yes.

Connie  Nelson  12:43  

It's not very pretty, really. attractive but look what comes out of it, you know, a beautiful butterfly. And so I take that all my episodes take something in nature and transform it into a life lesson in lessons across the STEM curriculum, but in this case, a little prissy girl named Chrissy she's all wrapped up in her cocoon of self and she cannot see or appreciate the needs of others at all she can see is herself. So she finds herself in the presence of the Bark Buddy Trees, which are my characters that become the voice of the nature child reunion to the children. And she she runs into Pinkie Dogwood, who's the springtime member of the Bark Buddy Trees. The band, it's a musical roots. They do musical rootines r-o-o-t, but anyway, so she runs into Pinkie Dogwood. And Pinkie realizes that Chrissy has a real problem. She's in a tiny little cocoon of self. And a cocoon is a very lonely place because there's only room for one in that tiny space. And she's all about herself. So Pinkie Dogwood shares with her about the metamorphosis the wonderous through time lapse photography, the metamorphosis of cocoon to butterfly and how much more fun it is to come out of your little cocoon of self to fly and see and appreciate the needs of others. And she teaches or through this this lesson. Chrissy learns a very important concept that she's never really practiced, it's called sharing. So that's just one way and then all of my episeeds have musical rootines and songs for the children to be interactive, do you know actions with the songs and so this one's all about coming out of the cocoon of self and flying and so that's Christy's Life lesson. That's that's something that she learned that will change her life.

Ray Loewe  14:53  

Well, so I'm gonna hit you with about four more and so we don't run out of time. Give me The short version of geese formations.

Connie  Nelson  15:03  

Oh, Gus Goose's Good Sense. Okay. So what formation? Do the geese fly in a V? Exactly? C stands for victory. And what how did they do this? Okay, so you have a lead goose that's flying in the front, he's drafting the other geese, making it easier on them. He's blazing the trail. When he gets tired, though what happens? He falls back. Another goose that's been taking advantage of the draft moves up into the lead position and takes over. So through this lesson, I teach a little boy, that he he doesn't really know the value of teamwork. He just he wants to win. But at any cost. He doesn't believe in being a part of the team. He wants to be the star of the show all the time. So I use that to teach him a lesson about teamwork, about V is for victory through teamwork. And I'll also even spread that across the curriculum to history and bring in something that little boys are usually interested in a lot of times is sports. And I share the lesson about how Jackie Robinson blazed the trail for African Americans in sports and famous baseball player. And so this gets the kids I bring in all of their senses. Not just you know, when you're in a classroom, they're you're just really not getting as much. Well, you can but it's it's not like learning outdoors. I say all the time, I think outside the box. But I don't even use a box. I just think outside.

Ray Loewe  16:48  

And I can see where you you know, you can look up in the sky, you can see the V's, and there's a lesson there where you can you can you can look at the ground, you can see the ants and there's a lesson there. And and there's, you gave me so many of them but but talk about helping your neighbors and the aspen trees because I that's what I even think about.

Connie  Nelson  17:08  

You know, I mean, trees, that's the worldwide, they have their own worldwide web. And it's, it's a lot of it's underground trees. I never struggle with the concept of talking trees and communicating trees, because we know that they do trees communicate through through hormones through chemicals, on the wind through their root systems. And the aspen trees are a very great lesson for kids about community and helping in your community and serving community service. Because if there's, let's say that there's a huge forest of aspen trees, it could be 100 miles across. And some of the aspen trees in one part of the forest are suffering from a drought. The other trees in the part of the forest may have been getting rain. So they've been getting nurtured by the water. And they'll share their water through their root systems, to their all of their Aspen Tree Friends down the road or down through the forest, you know, maybe 100 miles away, they share through their root systems.

KC Dempster  18:18  

That is absolutely great.

Connie  Nelson  18:20  

There's a very powerful lesson there for children.

KC Dempster  18:22  

It really is. And I had never heard that story before either. And I just, I'm in awe.

Ray Loewe  18:28  

I don't really know what's on, you know, I have a list of these, we're not going to have time to do them. But let's go to your book for a minute. Your book just came out. And it's targeted for this 4-8 market. Is that right? With with gravy spelling over on either side? And add? What's the name of the book again?

Connie  Nelson  18:51  

Oakie Dokie's Happy Roots. It's all about growing up happy.

Ray Loewe  18:56  

Okay, well, we certainly don't want to do that. Right. Well, you know, that's so important. And again, you know that that's one of the criteria of our luckiest people in the world, though luckiest people in the world know how to be happy. Okay, so, you know, maybe we all need to read this book. Okay,

Connie  Nelson  19:13  

It would be good for everybody to read. Yes. Because we all struggle with certain. And as I go through the book, I interact with the children with prompts and little questions. Like, for instance, when was the last time you know, you said thank you to someone? Or can you think of someone that you need to say thank you to more often that's, that's one of the roots. Respect is one of those roots. And that means, you know, appreciating what others do and thanking them for it. Cool.

Ray Loewe  19:43  

So, you know, unfortunately, we're about out of time. So do you have any last comments that you want to make before we have to break off?

Connie  Nelson  19:52  

Well, I would just like to say, think of somebody think of a child in your life, that you could plant a seed Plant a seed, maybe read this book with them, take them outdoors, you know, look for a special leaf or a special rock, just anything to get them outdoors. And, and let's reconnect children with nature so that they can grow up healthy, happy. And smart. Studies show that kids spend time out outdoors or even score higher academically. So let's just get the kids out there to grow up happy, healthy and strong.

Ray Loewe  20:31  

Well, cool. We will post in our podcast notes, the name of the book, and where you can get it and you have Facebook pages, and we'll give them some references to that. And you're going to show

Connie  Nelson  20:44  

I have a website to that's going to be go live this coming Friday. So

Ray Loewe  20:48  

we'll call we'll get that from you. And we'll put it up there. Okay, so,

Connie  Nelson  20:53  

guys so much for this opportunity. It's it's just been a pleasure. And I'd love to come back and plant more seeds sometimes.

Ray Loewe  21:01  

I'm gonna go on plant and Aspen tree. I mean, absolutely incredible thinking. So you have a great day. And thanks for being with us. And KC on tone for today. It's time to sign often. And we have an extra message to sign off today. Right?

KC Dempster  21:16  

That's correct. I want to thank everybody for listening to Changing the Rules. And to give you the wonderful news that I am retiring after many, many, many, many years of working with Ray, it's not a reflection on him. It's just that it's time for me to do things that I want to do, and not have to worry about meeting somebody else's calendar. So I'm looking forward to it. And I have a feeling that in the in the words of was it Michael Corleone "Every time I think I'm out, they drag me back in."

Ray Loewe  21:53  

Yeah, you'll be dragged back. And so so let me tell you what we're going to be doing here. So KC was almost unreplaceable. Almost. Okay. So what we are doing for the next four months is we have a guest host coming in for each of the four months. And the guest host is going to help us link to an incredibly new network of fascinating and motivating and interesting people. So KC, I, you know, put your ego down a little bit. But But you were placed by a team. Okay, that's true. And stay tuned, because I think you're going to find that the podcast is growing, it's going to take on a new dimension. And whether she knows it or not, she'll be back as a guest host. We just haven't set the date yet. And then we'll come back and we'll get some even more interesting people. So stay tuned to us and KC, congratulations on your retirement. And she'll be bored. She'll be back.

KC Dempster  22:53  

I'm not going to be bored, but I might be back

Ray Loewe  22:57  

bye everybody.

Kris Parsons  23:00  

Thank you for listening to Changing The rules, a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us next week for our next exciting topic on Changing the Rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.