Changing the Rules

Find Kevin Davis on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/kevin-davis-7b809939

TRANSCRIPT

This is Changing the Rules, a podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:15  

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Changing the Rules. I'm KC Dempster, and I'm here with my co host Ray Loewe. And we're at the wonderful Wildfire Podcast studios in beautiful downtown Woodbury, New Jersey.

Ray Loewe  0:29  

You got that all in? That's pretty good.

KC Dempster  0:31  

Yes, I did. And we've got a great show for you. Today, we're going to be talking with an old friend and I'm not talking age old. I'm talking known for many years, and I'm really looking forward to it. And we're going to talk about the luckiest people in the world and taking control of your life and and living the life you want to live.

Ray Loewe  0:50  

And we're gonna throw in some changing the rules in there, too. And before we get into this, I have an announcement. Oh, it's national popcorn day today. Now, this is important. This is a chance to support your local community because as movie theaters have not been pushing popcorn lately,

KC Dempster  1:11  

are they even open?

Ray Loewe  1:13  

Well, who knows? But, but have some buttered popcorn later today and celebrate? Okay. Okay, so, Kevin Davis? Yes. Okay, now I have I have three things to say about Kevin. Okay. Okay. Coach to Wealth Advisors. And he certainly was one of those to me when we were in that business. Barbecue pitmaster.

KC Dempster  1:37  

intriguing,

Ray Loewe  1:38  

extraordinary. And last but not least creative genius.

KC Dempster  1:43  

That is definitely not least Oh,

Ray Loewe  1:45  

yeah. So Kevin, Kevin, quit blushing. We can we can see it online over here. But But I have to tell a quick story before we let Kevin in here. And that is years ago, Kevin was on an advisory board to me. And he was he was a key part. And we were sitting around in our conference room one day, and we were talking about what was going to happen as I divested myself of my financial planning practice. And we were talking about all the great things that I can do. And these guys were really got me going and, and Kevin finally perked up over on the other side of the room. And he said, Well, you know, if you can do all that, you're going to be the most interesting man in the world.

KC Dempster  2:31  

I think he said, the luckiest guy in the world

Ray Loewe  2:34  

No he said interesting. And then he said, we can't use that. That's, that's a beer commercial. So he came out. So he came up with the luckiest guy in the world. And Kevin, it is stuck ever since. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I think I was lucky before you said it. But I feel even luckier now. So welcome, welcome to Changing the Rules.

Kevin Davis  2:58  

And thank you. Great to be here.

Ray Loewe  3:00  

And and I know you're down there and hopefully Sunny, warmer Atlanta than it is up here up north. Okay, and I'm anxious to talk to you because you recently put some stuff out on LinkedIn that I think is absolutely phenomenal. And and we want to milk that for the show today. Because you've always been a great coach to financial advisors. But I think you're a great coach to people too. So let's start out with some of the things that you did in your little video releases. And let's talk first about improvise, adapt and overcome.

Kevin Davis  3:39  

Oh, super well, thanks. And it's it's so much fun to talk with you. I had forgotten about that day sitting around the table in the conference room. What a fun day that was. So yeah, you know, this improvise, adapt, overcome, you'll find I am. What I'm really good at is I'm a librarian. I don't know that I have a lot of brilliant original thoughts. But I'm really good at cataloging things that other people say or that I, I hear about and maybe figuring out where they can apply in other parts of life. So here's a a fun piece of useless historical knowledge. I grew up in the Capital District region outside of Albany, New York. And when I was growing up, there was this guy who started showing up on the evening news, who was this rising boxer and the guy was he was ferocious. They would actually show his entire fights on the evening of the local evening news because they would take less than a minute. And it was Mike Tyson. Oh, we all we all know Mike Tyson now but I remember when he was this 19 year old beast in this, you know grainy footage that someone would would shoot there and these poor people who were I suppose Really good amateur boxers, he'd dispatch them in sometimes seem like you're five or six swings and they were down. Yeah. As he came into prominence and you know, became the the individual he was somewhere along the line, he had this great Mike Tyson line and it was just so much him, because I don't think it was ever intended to be this brilliant wisdom was just him talking smack. And what he said in an interview one day was, "Hey, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

KC Dempster  5:33  

Wow. I you know, I've heard that before. And I absolutely love it because it is 100% true.

Kevin Davis  5:40  

Yeah. And and, you know, I just laugh now because it was born out of just cocky self assuredness about how true that was in the boxing ring. Yeah, no matter how much these guys were preparing, he'd walk out there, and he just punched him in the mouth. How's that working for you, buddy? Yeah. But, you know, I got thinking about all of this recently, because that's what that's kind of what COVID did to all of us. It really didn't matter what your plan was business or personal or family. We all got punched in the mouth last year. And you know, what do you do with that. And so then I got thinking about a another classic from the 80s. I'm clearly a child of the 80s. Heartbreak Ridge, the old Clint Eastwood movie. And you know, so many memorable lines in there, it never got the play that maybe some of his other movies did. But there's a point in there. And it was just one of those throwaway lines almost, that just stuck with me, where I don't know the platoons complaining. And he just kind of looks at them and says, "We're Marines. we improvise, we adapt, we overcome." And off he went. And I thought, what wisdom in that simple little line, because that's really where I think we've all been, is we had to improvise. And we did. And then we had to shift to adapting. And I think a lot of people did, but it's that last step that I think's interesting is, you know, the shift from adapting to overcoming, which is acknowledging that it's changed. You've got to change as well, if you want to move on, you can't just sort of live in that spot. And I guess I view adapting, it's like, treading water in a river. It it doesn't work, you're going off or you're going down the river, you're not staying static. And so that's just kind of where I think we've all been as how many of us have found a way to say, we've got to get back to living and running businesses and running lives and having families. How do you do that? What's that look like? So that was kind of the impetus of all of that.

Ray Loewe  8:02  

Well, you know, I think there are a couple things are really important that just came out of this. We need to have plans. But I think you quoted on your The last time I saw a quote from one of our presidents. Yeah. Why don't you get that in here right now? It's perfect.

Kevin Davis  8:23  

Sure. So it was Dwight D. Eisenhower, and I had a little fun with it. I said, he tweeted that, and I was thrilled, because actually a few people said Twitter wasn't around back then. I was glad they were paying attention

KC Dempster  8:36  

I thought the same thing, but I didn't have anybody to say it to.

Kevin Davis  8:42  

So what he said, and this is fascinating, because there's a speech he gave, I think it was 1967 to a whole group of learned individuals around the military preparedness of the country. And he said plans are they're worthless, but planning is everything. And I read that and I actually read the whole speech because I wanted the context, I went back and found it. And what was really intriguing is, you know, he made the point is that, you know, we have these plans. And the problem with having plans for emergencies is precisely that you don't know what the emergency is until it shows up.

KC Dempster  9:22  

Right? You're until you get punched in the face.

Kevin Davis  9:25  

Yeah. And so I'm like, wow, maybe mike tyson had been studying. Maybe not, maybe not. But he's, I thought about that a lot. Because he said, you know, planning is what's critical because it builds this, this muscle this ability to stop and quickly think about what's going on around you and assess and make some decisions and then decide how you're going to go forward. And, you know, Ray, obviously, we you know, that we've had lots of conversations about planning. You know, whether it's A lot of times it used to be planning financially having a financial plan in place. And what's the purpose of that to let you kind of live life the way you like to enjoy it, but that presupposes you have a plan of what that look like. And so this whole idea of planning, I think, is really key. because it uses muscles and builds that strength so that when you really need it, you can do it. Well not just sort of sit there. But But here, here's the fun part. And you've got plenty of experience with this. In your experience, Ray, how often do you see people actually take the time to sit down and very thoughtfully, plan? What have you seen over the years?

Ray Loewe  10:46  

Well we did a conference not too long ago as a virtual conference, because we weren't compliance. Okay. And we, we did a little planning questionnaire. And it amazed me out of the group, almost nobody planned quarterly. A couple people said, Well, I kind of look at things once a year. And a large percentage of them said never.

Kevin Davis  11:14  

Yeah. That's, think about that. You know, that that's the equivalent of, and you'll laugh because this is your background. I know, you've been swimming for years. And, you know, my, one of my daughters is a competitive swimmer in college. And so I've been in the pool over the years a little bit. That's the equivalent of saying, I'm going to go swim a mile in the pool today. Excellent. How much have you been swimming lately? Oh, boy, I was in the pool six months ago and I did five laps...I hope lifeguards are strong and notfeeling sick today, you know?

Ray Loewe  11:52  

Yeah, you know, and, and part of the problem here is if you don't take the time to think about where you're going, the odds are, you're not going to get there. And and even if you start moving forward, you know, you're not prepared for these contingencies, like COVID. And, you know, we all found our plans were just kind of beat up. But those people have planned to have a real edge, I think and go from there.

Kevin Davis  12:18  

Yeah,

Ray Loewe  12:18  

you know, there's a couple other things that you talked about recently. You, you talked a little bit about the S curve.

Kevin Davis  12:27  

Yeah.

Ray Loewe  12:28  

So fill us in on that

Kevin Davis  12:29  

. So that we call it the business S curve, because that's the context it's usually talked about. But when you really look at it, it applies to everything in life. So if you think of these sort of three stages, you know, in the life of a business, or relationship, or what have you that that first stage, the formative stage, you're looking for a pattern of success. You know, it's interesting, it's exciting, if it's in business, nobody's making any money. But if it works, you kind of shift into the next stage, the normative stage. And this again, in the business context is where things are going smoothly, they're growing, you know, you scale and staff up, if it's in a relationship you've got out of that early stage of is this going to survive, and now you're in hey thi, this is great. But invariably, there's a spot where you hit a wall, and things start to change. Most people miss that. And and they keep doing what they've always done. And you know, what that will lead to is just in time, you just kind of you miss it. And you know, as I like to say you ride that wave right down into the ground. On the other side, again, what great leaders do and what thoughtful people do is they identify something changed here, we've got to retool, we've got to really rethink how we do things. Look for the the best of what was working and and figure out what do we keep? What do we add things like that? When done, right, that sort of launches you to the next level. Now, that's all in a business context. But you know, we've got to think of it in a life context as well, because here's what I find is interesting. Normally, that's an organic process. Every company goes through it in their own timeframe, every relationship goes through it in their own timeframe. But something crazy, I'd say unprecedented, even though that words been overused happened last year with with COVID. And the way we literally shut the world down. Every company and every person out there got thrown into this, this bubble of chaos. That's what's around the wall. Same time. Yeah. And I've never seen that happen before. And now here's, I guess the beauty of understanding that the hardest part of that process where you kind of retool is having to admit and determine that Oh, something really radical changed. We got to do something different. Right. And there's, there's usually a lot of all now not us, right? Well, guess what? Yeah, all of us. You can't deny it. None of us can

KC Dempster  13:33  

Right. We'll look at how many of us thought that the shutdown was only going to last two weeks.

Kevin Davis  15:08  

just unbelievable. So the good news is we're all there. So that allows us, I think, some great freedom to say Oh, given that, then what? How do we go forward and start to retool? Now, I'll throw this out. And we had talked a bit about this Ray, one of the things that concerns me is not only do I not see enough people planning because I think there's sort of living in this perpetual holding pattern bubble, a things bubble. Yeah, they're just kind of enjoying being in the bubble of chaos. I see a whole lot of people living in fear. Yeah. And and that just worries me long term because nothing, nothing productive. nothing good ever comes out of living in fear. And I'll give you a wonderful story. And I don't know if I ever even shared this one with you. You know, my grandma was an amazing woman. She She left us about a little over 10 years ago. She grew up in Rhodesia, which doesn't exist right now. Zimbabwe. She she was in World War Two in North Africa. As a nurse, she then was married living on a farm out in the wilderness of Rhodesia, or you know, literally Gran's packing heat, because there's lions and leopards and legitimate animals that will kill you.

KC Dempster  16:31  

She sounds like an amazing woman.

Kevin Davis  16:33  

And Ray, you know, because I know you've been there, I have a picture of a leopard that you took of the house here. You know, she she lives through a communist revolution that led to a 40 year dictatorship under Robert Mugabe, she moved to two other countries. So she lives in three countries in her life. We're visiting her in New Zealand and there are these geothermal pools by this lake. And we're all going to go sit in these hot tubs that they have all naturally heated. And in the first trip My dad is like, No, you can't Mom, it's it's too dangerous because your heart because the water is hot. Right? I could tell you she was ticked. So we're going back a couple years later, and I just kind of, you know, being the son who likes to poke the bear, a bit I'm like, Dad, what are you gonna do this time? When grant says she wants to go cuz you know, she's gonna say, well, we, my mom calls our family doctor. Doctor, down here in Georgia lays the whole thing out, right? Because she figures she's going to shut her son up by having the doctor backing them up. Right? And here's what the doctor says. And he knew Gran he had met her before knew the whole history. He goes, wait a minute, wait a minute. She's 89. She's survived wars, multiple countries, all this stuff. And you think her going in some hot water is bad idea. Let her make the decision when the worst thing that could happen. And my dad's like, well, she could have a heart attack and die. And he goes, Yeah, doing something on her bucket list that she's been thinking about for years. With the people she loves the most. What's wrong with that?

KC Dempster  18:12  

Right and who hasn't taken a hot bath?

Kevin Davis  18:16  

What I thought to myself, wow, this woman was fearless in the face of all kinds of legitimate danger.

KC Dempster  18:24  

Right, right.

Ray Loewe  18:25  

Hey I'm used to this. I'm in hot water all the time. All right, we need to move on a little bit, because our time is getting short. And you have we have pearls of wisdom here. So talk to us a little bit about toddlers learning to walk.

Kevin Davis  18:43  

So this is one of those crazy things that struck me as I was looking at some pictures of my kids. And I guess that meant I was getting old and feeling nostalgic, you know, back when they were young. And it's amazing, because you watch a kid learning to walk and what do they do? They they try to stand up, they pull themselves up, they're super shaky, they fall down, you know, they fall forwards, backwards, they bump all kinds of things. We never yell at them and tell them they're stupid and they failed. We always encourage them and say you're doing great. And what do they do? Well, they learn something from what just happened. They kind of figure out a different way to stand up. They wobble and shake, they adjust their balance a little bit. And they take a step. Now usually they fall over but they get up and they do it over and over and over again. And it occurred to me what changed because what that would be if you took away the fact that was a toddler learning to walk and you said it was a person trying to figure out how to do something. Most of the time we would say boy, they stink at that. They can't stand up they fall over off you're train wreck. But we don't write because what they do is they are I used to say failing fast and I've changed it because I thought that puts too many people in the wrong mind. set their learning at an amazing speed. They're improvise adapt overcome savants, right? Yep. They just they're processing, learning, adjusting tweaking, about the only adult I can think of that I would say was a genius at being a toddler in real life was Thomas Edison. You know, because he didn't think of doing it the wrong way as failing. He just wrote that down as, okay. A plus B doesn't equal C, let's see which one does, right. And kept moving. And so I feel like we're sort of in that mode right now of the faster we can do things learn from them. not worry about, Oh, I didn't get the outcome I expected. What was what was good in there? What maybe wasn't what you're looking for. Okay. Well adapt.

KC Dempster  20:49  

Exactly differently.

Kevin Davis  20:53  

You know, so that that's, that's something I've been talking to my my kids about, and just a lot of people in business about as well right now.

Ray Loewe  20:59  

Yeah. And and you had, you know, again, it's, it's part of a process and, and a couple of things that you mentioned in your process, as you look at what's different, what's right, and what's missing. So take a moment and comment on that before we get into the final crescendo here.

Kevin Davis  21:17  

Sure. So those were three questions. a dear friend of mine, Joe Colavito, shared with me years ago, and they always struck me as being great questions. And you know, Ray, we I know you and I have talked over the years about what a gift a good question can be. Because it can really give us some clarity if we ask it and think about it. And so you know, you start with the What's different? Well, here's the good news. That's not a hard one to answer right now. Normally, that's pulling teeth, because you know, you're trying to get someone to admit they're in the bubble of chaos. And "no everything's fine." Well, yeah, everything's different. And so I love that we get some simple, quick clarity on that. as to what's right, I think is really important. We tend to go to the things that are wrong so quickly. Okay, who cares about the wrong things? What are the right things? Let's, let's take those and let's build on those. And I think that that's whether it's in business or relationships, or how we, how we interact with our family and friends right now, I think that stuff's really important to hone in on what's right. And Ray, we can do another five podcasts talking about the education system, I know we have a passion.

KC Dempster  22:34  

Let's not open that can of worms today.

Kevin Davis  22:37  

We won't deal with that one today. But but then what's missing? Okay, so if we say here that here's what's different here, the right things, here are some of the things that are missing. I think that gives us kind of a really reasonable look at the playing field. But then what do you do with that? And and, you know, I just was with an organization just this last week, we took an organization through this exact process where we asked those questions, then based on those answers, what you do and this I stole unashamedly from the the best selling book, Blue Ocean Strategy, you remember from back in '04? I do? I do. Yeah. And they had this, this wonderful little diagram. And and, you know, it was a big, thick, complicated book, and I'm, you know, what can I say, I'm a guy who likes barbecue. So pictures resonate with me. And I don't know if I can tell you much about the book, because I read it, you know, 14-15 years ago, but I remember the diagram, they had this simple four quadrant diagram that they used as a process where you start on the bottom left, and you ask yourself, you know, given what we just learned, by asking those other three questions, what do we need to do less of what do we reduce in life? Then your upper left quadrant is what do we eliminate? What do we just need to stop doing altogether? Your upper right quadrant is what do we need to increase or do more of? And then your lower right, the fourth one is what do we need to create that doesn't exist. And it's an ad some fascinating case studies in there. But I'm really encouraged. Now, that's quick to describe, right? We spent a whole day looking at this with this organization, and there'll be a lot of good follow up discussions that come out of it. But if you really stop and take the time to first ask those three questions, to sort of see what the landscape looks like, and then to kind of work through a process, looking at you know, what do we need to do less of what do we need to eliminate? What do we need to increase? What do we need to create? It is fascinating what you're going to come up with. It'll, you know, for some people it'll be revolutionary, it could really change the way they're approaching life.

Ray Loewe  24:52  

And it's a plan. Yeah. In a bubble of chaos, You know, I think the wisdom that you shared with us today is magnificent. And KC will put on our Rob podcast notes how to reach you and where you're at so that people can find you and, and follow some of these things because it just shows how great a coach you are to both people and financial advisors and business people And uh. Kevin, you're, there's no question. You're one of the luckiest people in the world, the luckiest people in the world design their own lives, and then live them the way they want to under their own terms. And you've done just that, ever since I've known you. And, and it's a shame, we didn't get a chance to talk more about pit barbecue. I remember you dropping off at the office one day, you know, meat for lunch, and it was just incredible. So so you know, here's a guy who, who has great creativity, the luckiest guy in the world. Remember, he created that he's a brand master. Second of all, you've seen some of the coaching wisdom that that he shared with us today. And and finally top that off with. He's gonna do this. While he's roasting meat. What?

Kevin Davis  26:23  

I'll leave you with a couple of thoughts. Keep watching the stuff I'm putting up on LinkedIn, because I think in two videos, I'm going to find a way how to tie in barbecue. And I'll give you a link to a YouTube video that I shot of me telling you how to how to cook the best ribs you've ever had. And, and there might be one about Turkey that I just saw that we just finished last night.

KC Dempster  26:48  

Oh, okay.

Ray Loewe  26:50  

Well, you know, Kevin, go ahead finish up.

Kevin Davis  26:53  

I was gonna say I've sort of I'd love to end with this, this thought, because we've talked about some things that I hope encourage people, I hope they challenge people. But you know, as you said, it's not the hearing, it's the doing it right? You have a plan, you got to go do something with it. You know, that age old saying you can lead a horse to water? Well, how's it end?

KC Dempster  27:13  

But you can't make them drink?

Kevin Davis  27:16  

Yeah. So remember, my parents are educators. And they started a STEM Academy 25 years ago. And so my dad posted something last week out on social media that blew me away. And yeah, I mean, when it's your parents, you're allowed to be skeptical because you know, all the stories. And he said, you know, puts it up there, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. And then it goes dot, dot, dot, unless you make sure they're really thirsty by feeding them salt first. And I thought, what a great perspective, talk about changing the rules. Why can't you make them drink, it just means you left a piece of equation out. And so I hope today, maybe what we did is we gave people some salt and made them a little thirsty.

KC Dempster  28:02  

I think you did.

Ray Loewe  28:03  

Yeah, I think you did too. And you know, thank you for being with us. Thank you for being a longtime friend and mentor. And thank you for joining us as one of the luckiest people in the world. And there's more to follow. So have a great day. And thanks again for being with us.

Kevin Davis  28:20  

Well, I appreciate it. It's been an honor. Great chatting with you guys.

KC Dempster  28:24  

and tune in everybody next week when we will be talking with one of our good friends from the Chicago land. And with more, more, more ways to help people be the luckiest people in the world

Ray Loewe  28:37  

and get out of the bubble of chaos or what a great line. Yeah.

KC Dempster  28:42  

Thanks again.

Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us next week for our next exciting topic on Changing the Rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

Transcript:

Diane Dayton  0:02  

This is Changing the Rules, a podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KCDempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:13  

Good morning, everybody. This is KC Dempster. I'm here in the Wildfire Podcast Studios with Ray Loewe. And it is a beautiful day in Woodbury, New Jersey. And I know Ray's just dying to jump in here, but I'm going to hold on to this for a minute. This is Changing the Rules, a podcast about taking control of your life, living it the way you want to live, and we are trying to bring you topics and guests who can help you go down that path. Good morning, Ray.

Ray Loewe  0:45  

Thank you. And we're in the wonderful Wildfire Studios. You know, we have completed our first full year of podcasting. Okay, we did that with the last episode, actually. And we've completed 49

KC Dempster  0:59  

actually, we've completed 50

Ray Loewe  1:01  

Yeah, that's right. Okay, nitpick Go ahead.

KC Dempster  1:04  

Well, that's my job.

Ray Loewe  1:06  

And And the interesting thing is, we could not have done that without help. We've been guided through the process by the people at Wildfire. They have been wonderful. If you're looking for podcasting places one of the places to be okay, yeah, so let's talk about this year, because it's a brand new year. And we're going to change because we changed the rules, right?

KC Dempster  1:30  

That's right. And there's, there's hopefully going to be a lot of positive change the vaccine is, is already getting to some people, and hopefully it will get to all of us within the next, I guess they're saying six months to really get to everybody. But then we can start to maybe ditch the masks or, you know, go see our friends and hug our family. And, you know, I'm looking forward to that.

Ray Loewe  1:52  

But the amazing thing is, we're we're in a position to use the time that we have, you know, there's been a lot of people that have complained about losing a year out of their life here. And that's possible, if you don't do anything, right, but the luckiest people in the world don't do that. They're out expanding their lives. They're learning. They're, they're good. They're learning new techniques, we're gonna find out about some of this stuff, as we look back towards last year, and look ahead towards next year,

Kris Parsons  2:19  

Hey, I just I just finished about 20 things on my to do list that's been on there for 15 years.

Ray Loewe  2:24  

And if you don't take advantage of your time, then we're gonna throw you out of the The Luckiest People in the World Community.  So there. So so looking forward. I think we've learned some things last year, we interviewed a whole lot of the luckiest people in the world. And they were, they were motivating, interesting, fascinating people. And they're exciting. And we're not going to stop that. We're going to continue doing some of that. But we're also going to look at some of the things that our luckiest people in the world community tell us that they want.

KC Dempster  3:01  

Okay,

Ray Loewe  3:02  

so we're going to do some theme theme series in here. One of them that we're going to do, excuse me, is we're going to talk about the legacy that people are leaving, you know, we all leave a legacy whether we want to or not, right, kids grandchildren have lasting impressions of who we are and how they think about us.

KC Dempster  3:21  

Right a legacy is more than money.

Ray Loewe  3:24  

Oh, yeah. Forget the money part. While your kids don't watch it, yeah.

KC Dempster  3:31  

That was that was my eye roll that prompted that one.

Ray Loewe  3:34  

But But you know, I remember, you know, a maiden aunt I had long ago. And I remember her, I did not forget her, okay. But I hated every time I had to meet with her. And my mother was insistent that I was nice. And she was the aunt that that smelled of this old people's perfume. Used to pinch your cheeks and say how much you've grown. And I would duck outta there as fast as I could. And then I remember other relatives. I remember my grandmother really well. And when I think of my grandmother, I think of the smell of cooking.

KC Dempster  4:11  

Right? Yeah, she lived with you.

Ray Loewe  4:12  

Oh my and and and so the impression that we leave with our kids, our grandchildren and everybody else around us. Is there. Mm hmm. Okay, and we have time to make that whatever we want. Right? So we had a young lady last year Ashley Allen Come on and talk about the personal brand that you leave. And the personal brand is how people remember you how they think of you. So we're gonna bring her back this year and we have a young lady who's just called in. I think Bonnie Shea is on the line. Right? Hi, Bonnie,

Bonnie Shay  4:46  

I'm on the line.

Ray Loewe  4:47  

Okay, so say happy new year to everybody.

Kris Parsons  4:51  

Hi Bonnie, Kris Parsons here.

Bonnie Shay  4:52  

Happy New Year. Good to hear you Kris, too.

Ray Loewe  4:56  

Okay, so. So Bonnie was with us on one of our podcasts last year. And she told us a number of stories one was about falling off a bike. And what we learned is the luckiest people in the world really should plan on not falling off their bike

KC Dempster  5:10  

and wearing wear a helmet,

Ray Loewe  5:12  

okay, and wearing a helmet. But we're bringing Bonnie back this year, because Bonnie is a photo organizer. And she's taking a really interesting look at photos. So Bonnie talk a little bit about what most people do in terms of they take this bunch of photos, they stick it in a book, and nobody ever looks at them. Right?

Bonnie Shay  5:33  

Exactly. Or they hide them in your attics or their basements because their boxes and boxes worth of them. And they move them from one house to the next. And they never look at them. And to me, people have a photographic story in their printed photos. And to me, it's a treasure, it's a gift. And so luckily, I'm poised in my profession to help people curate their wonderful collection of photos, reconnect with them, and realize that it's really a gift that keeps on giving. And let's share it.

Ray Loewe  6:06  

Yeah, and you're doing some unique things. And we're gonna have you on a podcast later. So we're gonna do a whole 20 minutes, maybe more on this, but but talk a little bit about your most recent endeavor into getting people were in photographs to talk about the photograph, and how to make that photo live.

Bonnie Shay  6:27  

Exactly. So I have a client and I'm working with his mother who is in her 80s. And he asked me to record his mom talking about the photos. And so I took that idea, and I ran with it. And I basically would sit with her and we could do it socially distanced. But I had a microphone so she could talk and I would show her a photo. And she would tell a story about it. And I could even prompt her with some follow up questions because I knew what she knew about the story. So now I have an audio recording of her voice, which is golden. And then I have the scanned photo color corrected. So it's a beautiful stellar version of the photo. And I in my work area, go and make a short video of her voice with the photo or maybe even a series of photos if it's a particular event. And it could be 1-3 minute long. They're not these length, full length movies. But they're just golden. And I've shared them with my client and his mom and his sisters. And they will have their mom's story whether they've heard it before or not. They want to hear it again and again and again.

Ray Loewe  7:31  

And you don't have to look through 10,000 photos in a dusty album. Okay, you know, exactly. And I think this is wonderful. This just shows the creativity of Bonnie is certainly one of our luckiest people in the world. And it just shows what they can bring to bear on. I guess we call it a problem. Hopefully it's an opportunity, not a problem. Yeah. And Bonnie shared with me a couple of other things. And while you're on the line, I'd like to enter into them, even though they're not your area of expertise, particularly, one of the other things we're going to talk about is storytelling, and how you craft stories. Now you just gave us one example of how you can take a photo and merge it together with audio and video and create this story. But you're telling me about some of these other organizations that craft stories of people's lives and showcase them somehow? Would you comment on them for a minute?

Bonnie Shay  8:31  

Yeah, I mean, I think StoryWorth is one of them, which I haven't investigated personally. But I plan on doing that this year where they have questions that they can ask people, let's say each week they get a question emailed to them. And they have it's not a blank canvas that they just start talking about their past. It's like a prompting question. And that you can write, you know, 50 words, 100 words, it's not a big thing, but you're reminiscing and you're reconnecting with your memories and of making them available for your family. So that's one. I also, can I'm going to go off topic just a little bit but I want to tell you what's related to the pandemic is that so many of us are not seeing people who we love in person, we're seeing them on Zoom or any other platform. And it's a lot about visual, right. So we want more pictures, we want more stories, because it sort of has to fill the gap of not being in person with people. Exactly so right you can use videos, audios in our digital world is beautiful, because we can get this out there and enjoy it. Whether we're together in person, which we're not right now or around the world, right time zones, who cares about time zones anymore because we can get on the same calls regardless of what diamond

Ray Loewe  9:49  

Yeah, so so thank you so much for dropping in on us, Bonnie and early in the year we're going to have you on and we're going to start opening up this hole idea of storytelling and what are the images that we want people to think about us at because we have the time. And right now we are kind of locked up still. And we're going to be, and what do we want to make sure we do when we get out of this thing. So Bonnie, your thoughts and your ideas are wonderful. And keep saving them up, don't share them with anybody else.

Bonnie Shay  10:25  

And I'm only gonna share them with the luckiest people.

Ray Loewe  10:31  

Thanks for dropping in and have a great new year, Bonnie, and thanks for being with us.

KC Dempster  10:36  

I'm going to jump in very quickly. And to build on what Bonnie was just saying at the end. This past year, while we were in quarantine, my sister had possession of all my father's old home movies that he took of us as children. And she had it digitized. And we shared it with all the siblings, there's seven of us together. And so we set up a zoom call, and played the video and everybody was able to make comments or say Who was that? Because the younger ones don't know who some of the people in the, in the earlier movies were because they had already died by the time they were born. So it was it was it was we laughed? We had, you know, told stories and, and I have recorded the call. And hopefully it's up on YouTube. But if not, I'll it's still in my computer. So it's too big to mail to them. But you know, I do have it available. But it was a great, it was a great evening, we had such a good time.

Ray Loewe  11:40  

See, and this just shows what can be done. So anybody that's sitting home and saying that they're bored, right? Has no excuse, right? Okay. You know, you just have to get out and create. I had an interesting experience. And are we gonna get Jeff Lincoln on

KC Dempster  11:59  

the line? Actually, already?

Ray Loewe  12:00  

Actually, Jeff, happy new year.

Jeff Lincoln  12:04  

And Happy New Year, right, guys?

Ray Loewe  12:06  

I'm gonna let Kris How are you? Good. I'm gonna let Kristine introduce you after the fact. But I got a story to tell about you before. And it's so pertinent. So Jeff did an event with me and my sisters and my nieces and nephews. Okay. And we have this rather eclectic family. Okay, you know,

KC Dempster  12:29  

what else could it be with you?

Ray Loewe  12:31  

Well, yeah, we like each other. But we're spread out around the country. And we don't talk very much. And so we wanted to create an event. So what Jeff did is Jeff created a coffee tasting event for us. Now, before we get into the event itself, why don't you give us Kristine between you and Jeff introduce Passero's Coffee to us? Sure.

Kris Parsons  12:51  

Sure. Well, Jeff Lincoln and I go way back, we our kids played together when they were little, and our kids are now in their 20s. But Jeff owns, and is the President and CEO, President Lincoln as Ray likes to call him of caseros Coffee locations all around the Philadelphia area. And he had an intriguing time, because he basically had a lot of your customers and correct me if I'm wrong. We're all from the big corporations all around Philadelphia, which kind of closed down. So Jeff had to get a little creative. And I believe that this coffee tasting was one of his grand ideas to find a different way to get his product out there. Get people to learn about it. And just like there's a wine tasting, he's now starting to build his business of coffee tastings, which it was something that was in your your strategic plan for a while. Right, Jeff but but the pandemic helped to come to fruition, his study hall.

Jeff Lincoln  13:47  

Yeah. Certainly one of those ideas that was in a manila envelope and never got any further because when, when my shops are all up and running, I don't even have one open currently online. Hopefully spring possibly getting the others back open. You know, some many ideas as a business person you have, you know, and I just don't have the time and you just don't have the time and all of a sudden 2020 I've got the time.

Ray Loewe  14:19  

Yeah. And unfortunately, and and look at all of the creativity that has come out. And I'm sure a lot of this is going to flow through into your future in different ways. But let me tell you about this coffee tasting event, which was spectacular. So I had Jeff ship out three half pounds of different coffees to my nieces and nephews and my family. We got on a Zoom call in the morning. We had President Lincoln with us for coffee. We had president coffee with President Lincoln that morning, and we did a coffee tasting online. So we we didn't try and do fancy brewing. We had three cups, I think Some ground coffee. And Jeff led us through this process, which I think you can find out about now on your website. Is that correct, Jeff?

Jeff Lincoln  15:09  

That is that is yes.

Ray Loewe  15:10  

So anybody who's interested in this, do this. But what a phenomenal event, you know, we rebonded together. Yeah, we spent a wonderful hour everybody showed up. All right, everybody stayed online till the end. Okay. And before that they all had to leave early. And we're gonna do another one, because they said this was great. Let's do another one. Unfortunately, for Jeff, they want to do booze. And

Kris Parsons  15:37  

that's fine. funny, because we two things too. Yes, Jeff, we did it in our family. And Ray was talking earlier about being bored. Well, I had college students home during this pandemic, and they get bored very easily. But we did the coffee tasting. And it was really fun, because first of all, they're all starting to get into more and more coffee than they did when they were young. And it was just a fun bonding experience with our immediate family. But I think another great thing, Jeff, and I think this is what you're heading into is the corporate world. Already, the corporate world is getting a little bored with their Zoom calls. And I think Jeff is talking to some companies about incorporating a little coffee tasting or just a little coffee education on the Monday morning or Tuesday morning calls with, you know, all the managers that have to get together, how to keep it a little livelier, and make them all show up as if they have a nice cup of coffee that they can talk about. And then you can give them some fun facts. Let us give us a couple of fun facts that we didn't know about with coffee. Like you're not supposed to freeze it right. Or refrigerate it? Yeah.

Ray Loewe  16:40  

Yeah. And I've been doing that for years. No wonder I hated coffee. So just go ahead.

Jeff Lincoln  16:51  

No, I was gonna say, Yeah, I do have we've all been zoomed quite a bit this past year. And we've got more of it in front of us. And so the idea is, how can you? How can you keep people on the line and a little, a little more focused and interested in listening to the message that you really need to, once again, entertainment works and these types of coffee tastes, or virtual wine tastings. All help, I think are good tools for people.

Ray Loewe  17:25  

Well, you know, thank you for being one of our luckiest people in the world community members and Jeff pops on every once in a while for coffee in the morning on Thursdays. Yeah. Okay,

KC Dempster  17:36  

I have to thank Jeff for roasting coffee and sending it out to people because I ordered some blackdog over the holiday to introduce my visiting son to it. And he agreed it's good coffee.

Kris Parsons  17:48  

Very good. It's delicious. You convinced my husband who was a big coffee critic, but it's great. And now the nice thing is you have the time to get that online business, moving and sending coffee to everybody. It was a one stop shopping for Christmas in my house. Well,

Ray Loewe  18:05  

we're gonna have Jeff back. He doesn't know it yet. But we're certainly going to have him come in to some of our coffee events. And excuse me, probably some of our virtual conference events, and just show up every once in a while we'll drink a toast of caffeine. So Jeff, thanks for being with us. And, and happy new year, and thanks for being one of the luckiest people in the world.

Jeff Lincoln  18:34  

Well, thank you guys. Happy New Year. And onto a brighter one.

Ray Loewe  18:41  

Show you know in the interest of going forward over here, we have a couple of other people lined up that you guys don't know about yet. So we're going to get the original Philly Phanatic. Okay, we're gonna get a couple of people my age. Growing up the Holocaust, and some of the reasons why they're the luckiest people in the world. And we, you know, we I look at being the luckiest person in the world. I can't even think of what some of these people have gone through in their lives, right? And so we're going to keep introducing new concepts, new people, what are the things in your life that can make it more fulfilling, and make you feel luckier and luckier and luckier and luckier? So Kristine, do you have any other comments before we close up our run show for the day,

Kris Parsons  19:37  

no, other than I am going to go back and listen to these podcasts. Again, I like that idea of walking, which I have been doing. It's really a great way to do two things at once. And and it's true when you go back and listen to them again. And I think that is really important to make that point that we do need motivation because there are good days and there's bad days and while the luckiest people in the world have more good days. You know, you can't be happy all the time. So it's always nice to go back and have these touch points to say, Oh, yeah, right. Look what Bonnie's doing. And look what Jeff's doing. And look how Ruth turned her life around. That is helpful. That's all inspirational things that are very helpful for us. And that's why I'm grateful for for Changing the Rules podcast, and we look forward to it every every week. So keep it up, keep up the good work.

Ray Loewe  20:22  

KC any final comments over here?

KC Dempster  20:24  

No, I'm looking forward to an interesting year of change. And so let's let's go forward with a positive manner. And, you know, I agree with Kris, that I, I think the people we've spoken to have been inspirational. And because I'm the one that actually posts the podcast, and I get involved with getting the transcript up there. I do listen to them. Even after I've been participating in it, I get to listen to it again. And it's, it's really, really uplifting and revealing.

Ray Loewe  20:57  

Yeah, and, you know, if you don't take the ideas that are here and use them, then you're not going to feel as lucky as you otherwise would. So, you know, I think going forward, I think we're Our job is to put some interesting material on the table, both in terms of interesting people, and some of the things that interesting people are doing to make our lives more interesting, more fulfilling, give us control over where we want to go. So we'll be back in another weekend. KC, it's up to you to sign us off here.

KC Dempster  21:28  

Okay. Well, thank you for listening, everybody. Make sure you come back next week because we're going to have another great podcast.

Diane Dayton  21:37  

Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want, and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topic on changing the rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe the luckiest guy in the world.

TRANSCRIPT

Diane Dayton  0:01  

This is changing the rules, a podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:12  

Good morning and Happy New Year, everybody. This is KC Dempster. And I'm in the wonderful Wildfire Podcast Studios in beautiful Woodbury, New Jersey. And I am delighted to be here, of course, with my co host Ray and our good friend and frequent guest, Kris Parsons,

Kris Parsons  0:31  

Happy New Year.

Ray Loewe  0:33  

Yeah, you know, this is happy new year, but you jumped the gun. This is the year end show from last year.

KC Dempster  0:39  

Well, but it's but let's face it, it's the New Year. So

Ray Loewe  0:42  

it certainly is.

KC Dempster  0:44  

And we're going to do a recap, because I think now that we have gotten out of that horror that was 2020, that we need to be very positive looking forward to 2021. So let's talk about things that were positive that came out of 2020.

Ray Loewe  1:00  

Okay, so let's, let's start with the fact that this show is all about the luckiest people in the world. So it can't be too negative to begin with. You know, we are surrounded with the luckiest people in the world. And one of the things that the luckiest people in the world do is they have a way of making themselves happy. Yes. But we completed a milestone for us. Last year was our first full year in doing podcasts. We have actually completed podcast 49 up to this point, right. And remember when we started we were doing every other week, and then we kind of went into every week. So the beauty of last year is we talked to some unbelievably interesting people, okay. And we focused in on the fact that they are the luckiest people in the world. And we tried to highlight them as to why. And we wanted them to be role models to us. So why so one of the people that we interviewed last year was a young lady by the name of Ruth.

Kris Parsons  2:05  

Yes, with Ruth Kinsler.

Ray Loewe  2:06  

Okay, do you want to give us a 30 second synopsis of Ruth?

Kris Parsons  2:11  

Sure. Ruth was a wonderful, vibrant, exciting woman, she still is. But she had a bit of a setback, she had a stroke in her early 50s, which was a very odd type of stroke where she lost use of her legs for a while. And it was really devastating initially, but she found a way to twist it around. She ended up opening a company because she did lose her regular job. Initially, she opened up a company called Stroke of Life catering, which is a little play on

KC Dempster  2:43  

Stroke of Luck,

Kris Parsons  2:44  

a Stroke of Luck, I'm sorry, Luck, catering and a little play on words there. And she started baking and cooking and doing all these wonderful things for people. And because we were in this pandemic, and everybody was home, she her business took off, people were just calling her right and left for orders in catering. So she kind of took a really scary, tough situation, turned it around. And also a lot of her proceeds went to her rehab center Moss Rehab, who took care of her and now she can walk. She's doing great. She's almost back to normal. But this was an interesting way where she took a negative and turned it into positive.

Ray Loewe  3:21  

So what do the luckiest people in the world do when they have a stroke and lose their job?

KC Dempster  3:26  

Go ahead Ray,

Ray Loewe  3:27  

They start their own business. Right? Exactly. You know, it's it's amazing to me, you know how contrarian people are sometimes. But But the interesting thing is that she made it work. And this is why she was one of the luckiest people in the world. You know, one of the other people that I thoroughly enjoyed meeting last year was a gentleman named Ajit. Ajit Matthew George. Yes. And, Ajit founded a company called Second Chances Farm. Okay. And what he did is he started with an old building down in Wilmington, Delaware, that was dilapidated warehouse. And he put together a system for growing food indoors in a vertical setting instead of horizontal right

KC Dempster  4:20  

hydroponically

Ray Loewe  4:22  

and and then he took this whole thing, and he opened jobs to people who are being released from prison. And if I remember one of the statements that he brought up, is he was trying to find jobs for 70 people by the time he was 70. Yeah, yeah. Good goal. Good. So again, you know, you want to learn more about these people go back and listen to some of their podcasts and, and stuff like that. Yeah,

KC Dempster  4:50  

yeah. And and so far, you've meant mentioned to very positive people. And I think that's been a running theme, whether we've identified it or not they Just are optimistic and positive even in the face of with Ruth her her devastating stroke and with a sheet starting a whole new business because he, I think suffered a health issue and decided that he wanted in, you know, I think he was 65 at the time or something like that, and he wanted to find a purpose. And, and and he has and I think that's fantastic.

And one of the one of the interviews that I loved was talking with Clint Willis. Clint is a writer, and Ray and I met him probably in the late 80s or so. He was working with Money magazine at the time, and we were frequently called upon to interview for college planning issues. And very shortly after we met him, though, he left Money Magazine and moved his family, he, his wife and their two children to Maine. And which seemed to me a little bit odd, not odd, but unusual, I guess, is a better word. And the point was, he felt that he wanted to raise his children in an area that would bring certain values to them. And he, they moved to Maine and he started a company, a writing company. And he ended up bringing in young writers and and mentoring them. And he created the ability for himself. Once he had this cadre of writers to take care of the day to day business. He has written books, he has pursued interests that were inspired by the books, he learned how to surf. And he's again, just such a very, he took a positive approach to his life he wanted, he knew what he wanted. And then he went after it.

Ray Loewe  6:51  

You know, I think let's focus on this. He knew what he wanted. And I think what he wanted is he decided that he didn't want to raise his children in New York City. Right. And and so what do you do? I mean, in his case, again, he broke off with his major contact, quit his job. Yeah. And it was a good job. And believe me, he was one of the well known writers at the time. Right, right. And all of a sudden, he winds up in Maine in the environment that he wants to raise his family at. So you know, he's doing what the luckiest people in the world do you you go on out you personally design your own life. And then you step into it and you live it the way you want to live it. And Clint is a magnificent example of that. Yeah, you know, we have a surprise, we have a young lady named Sharon on the phone. Yep. And you introduced us to Sharon, Kris, why don't you? Why don't you introduce another one of the luckiest people in the world and bring Sharon on for a minute or two?

Kris Parsons  7:47  

Okay, well, I'm Sharon McCullough, I actually work with Sharon McCullough, Expert Events. She is the President and CEO of this company. She's been doing major events for colleges, for organizations for health, hospitals, lots and lots for years and years. And then, of course, the pandemic hit. And all the events, the big events just came to a screeching halt within a matter of days, which was pretty, actually was I was pretty impressed with her on how quickly she was able to wrap up everything and help all her clients, you know, figure out what's going on, shut it down before anybody did something that they regretted. So it's been very exciting working with her. But it's also been a very challenging year, and the two of us have been finding ways to change the rules, so to speak with events. And Sharon has been so kind to actually be on the show right now. She She is called in Sharon, are you there?

Sharon McCullough  8:41  

I am.

Ray Loewe  8:43  

Happy New Year, Sharon.

Sharon McCullough  8:45  

And to all of you.

KC Dempster  8:47  

Thank you. Thank you.

Ray Loewe  8:49  

So So Sharon, when when you look back at this last year, I'm sure it was a learning year from you for you what what was one of the biggest things that you learned and and let's do this in a positive way, let's not focus on the negative, you're going to focus on the positive anyway, but was one of the biggest things that you learn.

Sharon McCullough  9:10  

I think one of the things was to take a step back and look at myself and my business. And for a while I had been thinking about as I get a little older, that I wanted to move more into some consulting and and it gave me the opportunity to really take them in, look at how I could help my client, evaluate what they've done with the events and fundraising and make better plans. And I've been talking with a lot of organizations  about that to my my former clients and and also to take some new interesting steps. For instance, tomorrow. I Start a new contract with a small, two year arts institution who's working to form an alumni relations program. And my career prior to the events and corporate events played a major role in Alumni Relations program, but to be able to step in and help them, you know, just plan for being able to get that off the ground as they plan for their 25th anniversary, and then all the events that around that, it's given me the opportunity to say, Hey, you know, I could I could step out and do maybe some other things that that will be very interesting, exciting for me,

Ray Loewe  10:43  

you know, going forward next year, we're not out of this thing yet. Or this year, I guess we're not out of this yet by a long shot. And you can see all of the things about the delays of vaccines and all of these things. So your business is going to change. And what are some of the things that you learned that maybe will forever change the way you look at business going forward?

Sharon McCullough  11:10  

Well, I think the whole relying on the great advancements that technology made to support events, I mean, I used a lot of pretty fancy schmancy av systems and in live events, but the fact that that has all had to switch to virtual events, and it will slowly inch its way back to what the industry calls a hybrid event, which is part pre taped, pre done, virtual and and a live component, even one that goes back fully live event, I think we're going to see a lot of what has been very successfully developed to support or at least support, from my perspective, the nonprofit industry and the event industry in order to continue to reach their, their donors, their clients and and maintain their goals for fundraising in in a situation that's been incredibly difficult when you can't when you can't bring people together. Yeah.

Ray Loewe  12:21  

Well, you know, thank you for being one of the luckiest people in the world and for being part of our group. And thanks for being here and Happy New Year. And those of you who haven't had a chance to listen to Sharon's podcast, it's online, you know, go get one there and pull it up, because there's a lot of wisdom and a lot of creativity there. And Sharon, just thanks for being you. All right,

Sharon McCullough  12:45  

thank you.

Ray Loewe  12:48  

Okay, we met some other people along the way. So let's KC, let's talk about Sharman.

KC Dempster  12:53  

Wow, Sharman was so dynamic and so fascinating. Sharman is a professional musician. She was classically piano trained. And through a series of events and choices, she ended up getting into the classic rock business. And she toured and worked with the DuPrees for many, many years as their music director and their keyboardist and she met her husband through the music business. And he is a stand-in. He's not an actor necessarily, but he's a stand-in and, and he has been the stand-in for Joe Pesche For for many, many years. In fact, just recently, I happened to land on "My Cousin Vinnie," and I was thinking saying to my son, I know his stand-in. But Sharman has had a wonderfully exciting career, bouncing back and forth between live music and teaching, and finally decided to retire but she didn't retire in the classic sense. She just decided that she was going to start doing the things that she wanted to do. And so she has continued writing music and producing albums. She and her husband produced a movie together. And she's just so vibrant and full of life, that you can't help getting charged up when you talk with her.

Ray Loewe  14:19  

Yeah, you know, if you ever get down yeah, just go to Shar Sharman's website. At some point, um listen to some of the music that she's created. And I had an experience last night, every Monday night Sharman does a live presentation on a YouTube channel on a Facebook channel. And what she does is she uses her music her original music in various forms to help people move ahead. Sharma is a big believer in if you're sitting on your rear end You know, you better get off and make some things happen and Sharman is a is a young 70 something type person And add her husband was on and they were singing together last night, you know, just a phenomenal event. And and you know, when we look at those people that we've talked about, there's some commonalities in here. You know, first of all, they're all really good at changing the rules, right? They are, you know, they don't let the rules get them down, and they figure out how to make them work for them, and how to use rules to to help them do what they want to do. And and another thing that they all do is they're all happy. I don't know if you noticed that. But they all seem to have this way of making themselves happy,

Kris Parsons  15:39  

which is tricky. It's very hard, especially these times, it's hard. And they take that as kind of the way they start their day.

Ray Loewe  15:45  

Well, they have a routine and you know, let's talk about john Freeman for a minute.

Kris Parsons  15:50  

Our clown

KC Dempster  15:51  

Our favorite clown

Ray Loewe  15:52  

Yeah so, John is a financial adviser. He's out in Kansas City. He is not with us today on the air. But I met him in in a meeting that I was at, and he came in and he gave everybody a clown nose,

Kris Parsons  16:08  

I love that, that was great

Ray Loewe  16:09  

And at the end of the break, everybody put their nose on and walk back into the classroom. And wow, could you feel the difference. I mean, how how

Kris Parsons  16:18  

everybody should wear a clown nose, I think

Ray Loewe  16:20  

how can how can you be not happy? Right?

Kris Parsons  16:22  

Right.

KC Dempster  16:23  

Especially the people that let their mask ride low. They they put a clown nose on, it might be okay.

Ray Loewe  16:29  

So, you know, part of this, again, is this ability to be happy. And and this affects John in the way he does business with people. And and we had I'm drawing a blank over the last year, it's a new year. Well, you know, we actually had him on in a joint session with Sarah Brown. And it was interesting, because Sarah was talking about the routine that she goes through every morning to make herself happy with some yoga and some exercise and some other things. JOHN doesn't mess with that. He Just puts on a nose.

Kris Parsons  17:08  

I think I'd like that that's a little easier. Yeah.

KC Dempster  17:10  

And he says that the laugh is equal to the size of the nose. Oh, the bigger the nose, the bigger the laugh.

Kris Parsons  17:18  

There you go, there you go. Well, and again, that's what I learned from this is I do think we may come out of this. Being a kinder, gentler, friendlier group, I really do. I think we've all learned a lot that it does help and you have to help other people, you have to bring them up. You have to make them feel better when they're feeling bad. And I'm sensing it just in social media. I'm sensing it. Going to the store. I'm sensing it. I see. I hear many more pleases and thank yous than I've ever heard before. So I think we have to keep that I know, sometimes people go Oh, positive people are a little crazy. But I think if you have that as part of your routine, it's a it kind of happens by habit.

KC Dempster  17:57  

Yeah. Yeah.

Ray Loewe  17:58  

You know, before we get out of time over here, let's talk for a minute about easter eggs. Yeah, oh,

Kris Parsons  18:05  

yes. I remember that podcast. You have to go back to these podcasts and listen to them again. And again. Because you, you hear more things each time you go back?

Ray Loewe  18:13  

Well, I do every time I go out walking, I timed my walks. And the podcasts are about 20 minutes, right? And so depending upon the length of the walk, if it's a short walk, you can get it in one podcast, you can get in two or three. And they make the time go by fast and I re hear things that I didn't hear the same way. Right, right. So they get me motivated. So let's talk about Jane for a minute and what she did because Jane started as an artist, and when she decided to have her kids, she took control of her life again. Okay. And she said, Okay, I want to be at home. I want to be at home with my kids. So what can I do? Because I don't want my life my want mine to go to waste. All right.

KC Dempster  19:01  

So she developed. She didn't create this. She learned and made a career out of Pysanky which is the art of Ukrainian easter egg dyeing and her. The photos I have seen of her easter eggs are absolutely stunning.

Ray Loewe  19:24  

And they're in the White House. And she's got some in the Smithsonian.

KC Dempster  19:28  

And I think the Ronald Reagan library.

Ray Loewe  19:30  

Yeah. So So again, you know, if you think about this, here's somebody who took control of their life and said, I want to be home. Mm hmm. And she created the atmosphere to be home. And she made a living at it, but not only made a living at it, and she's famous for it.

KC Dempster  19:48  

Yes, yes. She wrote a book about it. And then after about 30 years, she felt that she had said everything about eggs that she could say and decided To start a new career, and she did, and she's a life coach, she's at certified, you know, it's not. So she just didn't say, Oh, I'm going to be a life coach and start calling people up. She got certified and trained. And she helps with business coaching. And then she created something during the pandemic that is Ray's favorite

Ray Loewe  20:19  

study hall.

KC Dempster  20:20  

Yes,

Kris Parsons  20:21  

I love that. That was great.

Ray Loewe  20:23  

So you know, all these people have all these projects that they never get to write. And one of the things Jane learned as a coach is accountability is really important. So she set up this thing called study hall where people actually pay her to meet her online for several hours, and work by themselves.

Kris Parsons  20:43  

And listen, I am a consultant, I work from my home and you do need some discipline to keep you from being distracted. And I think it's great. She actually holds you to your work. She's there with you virtually, but helping you. Okay, you said you were gonna finish that by this time. Did you do it?

KC Dempster  21:00  

Yeah. Yeah,

Kris Parsons  21:02  

it's great. It's great idea.

Ray Loewe  21:03  

Yeah. So so you know, we're getting near the end of our time over here. But when we look back on last year, we had so many Well, we had Jeff Wuorio, who's another writer who moved to Maine because he wanted the right atmosphere to take care of his kids. We had Bill Hughes is a life coach who shows up at our coffee hours all the time. And, and he's wonderful because he's got all these coaching concepts that are just kind of like one liners that hit home. Very bright, very bright. Yeah. We have Mark Bernstein, who wrote a book on fiscal therapy. And, you know, he'll be on one of our shows next year, because he's introducing a new concept. We had Lea Andrews on, okay. Lea is a young lady who teaches Spanish, Italian, French, to young kids under the age of three Mandarin. Yeah, and Mandarin. And she does this with games and songs. And you know, talk about an idea that's right, for the time. Absolutely. And I just see her business booming over the next year, because people are worried about their kids and their grandchildren missing a year of education. So we've just had guests after guests after guests who are the luckiest people in the world. And, and it's not, you know, I the best life in the world over here. And the reason I'm one of the luckiest

Kris Parsons  22:24  

That's because the two of us are sitting here.

Ray Loewe  22:25  

Well, that's true. But the luckiest guy in the world gets to interview people every week. And you sit here and you just get motivated and and you just get captivated by the way people take control of their lives. And it says, you know, there's no excuse re you got to be happy. And you got to move forward. And what are you going to do with the next 30 years that you have? Yeah, well, I have more than that. I'm going to live to be 156 .

KC Dempster  22:51  

Yeah, so you say

Ray Loewe  22:53  

so there, so stay tuned. Come back next year, we're going to interview more of the luckiest

KC Dempster  22:58  

Well, let's let's finish this year, though.

Ray Loewe  23:00  

All right. Okay, you're on finish.

KC Dempster  23:03  

Okay. Well, thank you all for listening. And we'll be back next week and join us.

Diane Dayton  23:10  

Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast designed to help you make your life the way you want, and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topic on changing the rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe the luckiest guy in the world.

TRANSCRIPT:

Diane Dayton  0:02  

This is Changing the Rules, a podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:12  

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Changing the Rules. I'm KC Dempster. And I'm here with Ray Loewe in the Wildfire Podcasting studios. And we have a great show ahead. I think we've made our guest a little bit nervous, but that's good. It'll keep him on his toes.

Ray Loewe  0:29  

Yeah. And you forgot wonderful.

KC Dempster  0:31  

Well, I thought I would let you do that.

Ray Loewe  0:33  

Okay, so we're here in Wildfire Podcast studios, which I understand we've added video component today, which we may not go live with, but somewhere we're live. And, again, one quick kind of a commercial for Wildfire because they've been so good to us. When we started in this business over a year ago, we had no concept of how to do a podcast. We still don't know how to do a podcast, but we found out we don't need to know because the folks at Wildfire do it all for us. Right. So we have an engineer Taylor, who isolated himself in another room, so he doesn't have to put up with us. And and he monitors all this and puts it together. And at the end of this, hopefully we come out with something that's worthwhile and entertaining and at least amusing for everybody.

KC Dempster  1:22  

Okay, let's get to the show.

Ray Loewe  1:24  

Okay. So we have our guest. Okay, and you know, we're going back in time again. So so I used to be a partner in a broker dealer. This was part of my securities, entree, whatever it was, the way we did business and in dealing with being a financial advisor, and I met this guy by the name of Mike Jankowske, who misspelled his name on purpose, just so that the rest of us have difficulty in our life,

KC Dempster  1:59  

says the man with LOEWE. Yeah,

Ray Loewe  2:03  

and I I kind of we parted company from our broker dealers. And and and Mike, in effect, felt constrained by the rules, I think, yes, that's what it was. And he formed his own business and formed a very, very successful firm. And since that time, he's actually retired and sold off a good part of his interest in that firm. And so he is kind of retired. But as we're gonna see, Mike will never be retired. So Mike Jankowske with an E. Say, hello to everybody.

Mike Jankowske  2:41  

Hello, everybody. And by the way, you know, I would imagine, right and during his entire life would probably be correcting people know, there's an E at the end of my name, there's an E at the end of the name. And I would I have the same problem. No, there's an E at the end of my name, there's an E and the end of My name

Ray Loewe  2:58  

Well, it makes us distinctive.

KC Dempster  3:00  

That's true. Well, and I don't have an unusual spelling for my name, but most people don't understand Dempster they often consider they hear Dempster. But what they write down is Dempsey.

Ray Loewe  3:12  

So anyway, a quick aside here, because it's relevant. Okay. One of our favorite places to hang out with a place called Fleming's restaurant, and one of the managers there's name was Loew, without the e. right, so we chipped in and bought him an E for Christmas, so that he can be complete. Now, I can't do that with you. Like, you know, I, you know, you have the it's just, it's different. So anyway, let's capitalize on the fact that you're going to be different. All right. So So tell us a little bit to start out about your journey. What are what are some of the things that you did in your life and and you formed your own business, because this is what the luckiest people in the world are all about. They're people who personally design their own lives, and then step in and live them the way they want to live them. So give us give us some background?

Mike Jankowske  4:11  

Well, interestingly enough, I was a financial advisor working with a major company. And I had been a manager there and had a bunch of people I had trained, mentored as part of the planning process. And what made me kind of unique in that is the fact that I was always trying to find innovative ways to proactive ways of how to solve people's financial life's experiences. And, you know, and conflicts, and some of my same people that I mentored made the decision that it was too restrictive, to do with a lot of the things that we could offer clients, not just from a product perspective, but more importantly advice. And so we I was kind of pulled initially kicking and screaming away from the company to start our own firm back in 1996. We haven't looked back since we become very, very innovative in how we approach planning and help people. And it's a it's a playground for me based on how I'm wired. And, and that's the blessing that I feel I've had over the years because I was able to refine what I'm best suited to serve clients during my career, and actually, I can, I can safely say that helping and working with clients to deal with their life goals and their and the issues they have to contend with, it was sort of like the training ground for a call to be able to create or incubator to be able to create my mission in partial retirement Ray remember, partial retirement, Ray not retired partial retirement. So it, it's kind of cool that you'd have a career that would set the table for you to be able to take what you're best suited to do, and how you're wired. And to be able to bridge that into a purpose that is to what you would want to be doing when most people today, when they use the R word in retirement, don't know what they're going to do for the rest of their lives. They they're searching like a college student graduating from college, what their purpose and mission is moving forward. So it's kind of cool that my own clients taught me and set the stage for me to, to innovate and grow around that, and grow into the my mission and purpose in the next stage of life.

Ray Loewe  6:34  

You know why most people have this problem and, and a lot of it becomes comes from the traditions of retirement. You know, when you look at your parents, your parents retired at age 65, maybe they had a pension of some kind, maybe they didn't, they live for 10 years, maybe in most cases, and they didn't have an awful lot of time. But now the norm is to live a lot longer. And we're meeting tons of people that are 100 and 90 and 105. And you see these people in the news every day. So what do you do with the rest of your life, when it comes time to do this, this retirement is a waste of time. So we're on the same page there. And one of the goals of the luckiest people in the world. And this is another reason why I know you're one of us over here is that they have a purpose and a mission. So So talk to us a little bit about this client experience of people have them teaching you that you had you had to you couldn't retire. How's that?

Mike Jankowske  7:38  

Well, it's kind of interesting, because, you know, part of what happened with the evolution of my career was, this may sound funny, but as I reached about 10 years before I actually sold out part of my interest in the firm, I wasn't working with clients directly anymore, I wasn't dealing with the every day, you know, client servicing whatever the case may be, I was more focused on the things I had the most passion for and was instinctively best at being able to do and that is to work with their income tax and estate planning and charitable planning, you know, goals. And so the bottom line is I was having fun in a space and developing all kinds of ideas. But more importantly, when I talk about learning for my clients, it's also the gratification and understanding that you know, the average client getting ready to retire anybody that has a life challenge or life goal. It's the same thing. And I think what's what makes me excited about my next stage of life and what happened during the pre prior stage of my life, okay, is the idea that the satisfaction of seeing a client, or a person where you see the light bulb go off in their head, because instead of advising clients or advising people on things, you collaborate, you help them flip the switch from reactive thinking, to proactive thinking, I can't even tell there's so many stories I can tell about how clients working with us very deeply in their financial planning, came up with unique solutions we didn't even think of because we allowed them and help them flip that switch to brainstorm and to collaborate on what they wanted to accomplish in life. And I think that, that taught me a lot and gave me a lot of satisfaction. But it also framed my thinking about how could I leverage what happened during my official career, going into the next stage of life? How could I take the way that I can help somebody flip a reactive part of their brain over to a proactive to solve a problem or to address what they're going to be doing? And to me that became more of a framing like I said, have a mission and purpose For going into partial retirement, and my my narrow focus is, of course, charitable planning, which I'm very passionate about. But that is that the experiences over and over again, of what I had, I'll give you one little quick story. And I always find this amusing because I had a math teacher who just couldn't retire. She and her husband would sit with me a few times in a row. And she would she would go into math, analysis paralysis, she would say, Oh, I need to see a scenario. Where am I going to be okay? If I retired nine months, in six months, in two years, and whatever, and you could see the husband building up frustration, and I finally said, Okay, that's it. I'm going to give you a homework assignment. That was very gratifying to give a math teacher a homework assignment. And I said, I'm going to give it two weeks, I want you to take some time away from grading papers and doing stuff and just start researching what it is that you'd be doing in retirement. And she goes, Well, alright, well, whatever. And the husband's ready to fall off the seat laughing 24 hours later, I get a phone call. It's her. I'm ready to retire right now. End of the school term. I'm going, Wow, what happened? Well, you know what? I did what you said I did my homework assignment Bingo. She says, You won't believe what I what I found out I could be doing now. Here's the part. That's cool. You know, this is not at all unusual one, you know, this already ran and KC, she started researching what she could do as a retired teacher to mentor math teachers. And so it's like, well, if I don't have to do all the, all the all the extra work and all the craziness as being a teacher, I great, I would be excited about mentoring math teachers, to help them through developing their careers. That's happened time, and time and time again, that's happened over and over again. And then my brain's in learning from those experiences. I started saying, you know, what? charitable planning? What can I do to leverage the impact because I've done a lot of charitable gift arrangements over the years of all different sizes have consulted with non for profits, and how they can create plan giving programs. And and I've learned a lot from that in my brain is formulated. And that's perhaps for another discussion. But the bottom line is, there is something concrete that's evolved out of that, because of those experiences. Because it I've been taught to innovate. And my my Kolbe assessment, which Casey can tell you all about is much theorist, which means I can't help myself, it's like being a brainstormer or on steroids. You just cannot stop from looking at scenarios and start saying to yourself, Well, what if, but I do it verbally in front of other people, my wife shrugs every time we go anywhere, because sometimes I'll see what's going on in the business plan with an establishment. And I strike up a friendly conversation. And all of a sudden, we're brainstorming all kinds of exciting ideas, that that can be done to help improve their business. And so I've learned to kind of like tamp tempered tamp that down, so to speak,

Ray Loewe  13:13  

but I don't think so. Okay, and you're sure right, and you should get by the way.

Mike Jankowske  13:19  

But that's the cool part. And now because of the pandemic, and I keep looking at how we're divided. And I say to myself, there's a lot of reactive thinking going on right now. People are not, it's hard right now emotionally to flip that switch, to take all that negative energy and convert it to something that could create positive impact for what you could do either personally or for others. And that has really amplified for me that my mission and purpose going into partial retirement to help charities, great planned giving programs, is critically important. Hmm. So I think the big that, again, the life experiences, I can spend hours telling you stories about how I learned what frame for myself, but it's because I was willing to change willing to adapt to what was going on, as I was experienced in it. I've had advisors tell me that, you know, we just we can't be that varied in how we give advice. We need to curb it a little bit and be able to robotize it so to speak, to create systems in place to support it. And my response is, well, that's crazy. Why kill innovation, especially if the clients are helping you. And, and the other part I've always told people is if anybody ever if I ever say to anybody, and I've heard this from people in all walks of life besides financial planners, if I ever say to somebody, I've been through that I know all that there's nothing new that I need to learn. I've always said clients and advisors run like, you know what? away from me? Yeah. And I think that's the attitude for people like ourselves, in effect that, you know, it's almost like a challenge. If somebody says that to you, because you're in it, because there's always a way to innovate around even the same idea that somebody might have tried once or twice and it didn't work.

KC Dempster  15:24  

Right. Right. Well, and that is very much a part of your Kolbe. I'm not, I'm usually forbidden to talk about it. But I can, I can see, I can just see it. It's it's like it's up on a on a blackboard.

Ray Loewe  15:35  

Okay. Okay. So we know, from this Kolbe stuff, and that you're hardwired in this direction. I mean, yeah, you're right, you can't help yourself. But one of the things that I think some of our listeners need to know is, how did you get the space in here to allow yourself to go the direction that you want, you know, most people are tied in to making a living, yet, you seem to have found a way to give yourself the permission to move the way you want to move? Can you give us some light on that?

Mike Jankowske  16:10  

Yeah, and here's the part where I had it easier than most people had it, because the natural evolution of my role on the firm, screamed it. And so everybody supported it. But I would say that I've had worked with clients and other folks I've consulted with outside of strategic my company, to, to, you know, to take a look at their time management, I let me put it this way, you've heard the expression, when you're already looking at something else in a different career, you got one foot still working in the career, you already have one foot out the door, you've already engaged in the process, I think people are afraid to engage in the process of changing because they just not sure what it is, they would change to. So what I've done in the past, and what I advise anybody to do is you know, take a little bit of time it's take baby steps, and just start researching things that you've thought about, that you really like to do, but you're not willing to, you know, pull the rug out from yourself, to go onto something different, you want to be able to start to research and kind of look, and what's going to happen naturally, if you give it a small amount of time to begin with, you're going to take more and more time to research, you're going to get excited. And then you're gonna start formulating this plan and in your brain about how you could possibly do it. And if you feel like you can't like it's beyond your paygrade that's when you ask for help if you truly want to move and make that change. But the important part is looking and researching no different than that math teacher. You would have been still working today. Well, maybe not. She's probably in her 80s. But the bottom line is she she would still be arguing Well, I don't know. And I can tell you, by the way in that story that the husband, he couldn't fight laughing out loud. When when she when he found out all this stuff. Because he has been working her for the longest time to three years, just retire. We have so many things we could do just retire, you can take a big portion of the time you've you've you were spending teaching, doing the mentoring and the rest of this stuff that we would like to do together to reconnect and and in partial retirement. That's the beauty when you make a change. And I would encourage anybody regardless of your age, to start looking into that because a lot of people are in careers, that they really don't have the passion and ability to want to grow into as opposed to something they've thought about in the past but just did the circumstances as they see it. We're not there for them to make a change.

Ray Loewe  18:45  

Yeah, you know, I was thinking I need to add one really critical element to that. Mike lives in northern Indiana just south of Chicago. Okay. Life Mike is broadcasting this morning from Maui.

Mike Jankowske  19:03  

No, no, no, Oahu, Oahu

Ray Loewe  19:04  

Oh, you're on Oahu, see you changed islands again on me, but

Mike Jankowske  19:10  

I did not change islands. You know, as you get older Ray, well, we're not going to finish that sentence.

Okay, bottom line, okay. So basically, I'm going to say something here that's going to make everybody laugh on this call. And sarcasm is going to ooze out of every listeners pores when I say this, I'm stuck here. Stuck in Hawaii, because I was supposed to fly back April 22. And we're probably going to fly back given a vaccine March 28. Now, that's the stuck itis but it gives the opportunity and no excuse for me to be distracted as much and actually focus in a more of things I'd love doing. like doing a podcast like this. Telling Ray doesn't remember where I'm in Hawaii.

Ray Loewe  20:02  

All right, with that comment, we have to end this podcast. But we got to do another one of these. You know, I think that our listeners can see why you're the lucky one of the luckiest people in the world. There's no question here. And you've been able to take a career and channel with the way you want, you're able to figure out how to change your venue, you're in Hawaii, you know, where the rest of us are struggling with wind and cold and misery. You know, you're, you're happy guy, I think. And when I go back and re listen to this podcast, you know, I have a list here of the number of the traits and mindsets that the luckiest people in the world have. I think you've hit every one of them. Okay.

Mike Jankowske  20:44  

Well, let me just end this with the comment that you know, I live in a town called Valparaiso, Indiana. we affectionately call that town Valpo. Rain, snow windy ana because they can do that all in the same day in no certain order. By design, we wanted to escape Valpo rain snow, windyana. for our own Good during the winter moms because of that. Lake Michigan lake effect. Oh, yeah. So I just wanted to add to that, and you know, folks, my only state, it was great doing this. I all I can suggest here is everybody can get themselves juiced up, to be able to do the research and innovate. And if you need help get help, because it is a wonderful experience, where you know it. I wish everybody could experience what I've been through and continue to go through. And everybody has that opportunity.

KC Dempster  21:37  

That's exactly right.

Ray Loewe  21:39  

All right. We don't have anything more to say.

KC Dempster  21:41  

No, I think it was Mike said at all.

Ray Loewe  21:43  

Yeah. So thanks, Mike and KC, where are we going next?

KC Dempster  21:47  

Well, we're we're approaching the holidays. So we may have a very special couple of podcasts coming up on the holidays but lips are sealed Ray don't give it away. Just Can I just say that they

Ray Loewe  21:59  

want everybody wants to be here. Okay, it's very non traditional over what we've done, but it's going to be exciting and and more important amusing.

KC Dempster  22:08  

Stop yourself

Ray Loewe  22:08  

maybe not quite as amusing as Mike and Mike. Have a great day. everybody. Have a great day. Have a great couple weeks and we will see you soon.

Diane Dayton  22:19  

Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast designed to help you and your life the way you want and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topics on Changing the Rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe the luckiest guy in the world.

Reach Bill at:  [email protected]

TRANSCRIPTION:

Diane Dayton  0:02  

This is Changing the Rules. A podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:11  

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Changing the Rules. I'm KC Dempster. And I'm here with Ray Loewe in the wonderful Wildfire Podcasting Studios in beautiful downtown Woodbury, New Jersey.

Ray Loewe  0:26  

Yeah, remember that wonderful?

KC Dempster  0:28  

Well, that's why I put it in there. It's all that alliteration.

Yes, yes. So good morning, this morning, we're going to speak with an old friend, Bill Hughes. And he's got a lot of interesting things to say. So what's up Ray?

Ray Loewe  0:31  

Well, it's it is alliteration. But it actually is wonderful. Because when we started podcasting, about a year ago, we had no clue as to what was going on. And without the people here at Wildfire Podcasting Studios, we just wouldn't have had a clue. I'm not sure we. We have a clue now. But we have leadership to take us through. That's true. So wildfire has done a wonderful job for us.

Well, Bill Hughes is a longtime acquaintance. He's a longtime friend, maybe a little less longtime friend, but a longtime friend. And on he very definitely is one of the luckiest people in the world, because he designs his own life personally. And then he lives it the way he wants to live it. And one of the interesting things about Bill is that he doesn't always seem certain that he is one of the luckiest people in the world. But but that's because he is always searching to find out who he is so that he can be better. And he is certainly on this journey. And because it's on its journey, that's what locks him in is one of the luckiest people in the world. So Bill, whether you like it or not, you're here and you are. So say hello, and introduce yourself quickly. And let's start talking.

Bill Hughes  2:03  

Well, I'm Bill Hughes, and I'm here and I am considered one of the luckiest people in the world. As write me, and you acknowledge it this morning, this is this is a really good start.

Ray Loewe  2:14  

Okay. So So, Bill Hughes, I've known for 30, some years, he has always been a mentor to me and kind of a coach to me. And I think the difference the difference between mentor and coaches, coaches get paid mentors do it for free so you're a mentor Bill

Yeah, let's keep it that way. And let's start with with an interesting concept about you, because you're an outstanding coach, who always believes he needs a coach. Yes, so comment on that a little bit?

Bill Hughes  2:52  

Well, there's very few people in this world that I've run into, that can self coach, because it's so easy to lie to yourself, hmm. And if you really want to make progress, you need an accountability partner. And if you can find somebody skilled in the field of coaching, to help you with that, in your particular direction, I think you'll find a lot more success than if you try and do it on your own. And to be a coach. It's difficult, I think, to advocate for coaching, if you are unwilling to be coached.

KC Dempster  3:24  

Yeah, there there, there is a certain resistance on some people's part because they secretly think that they don't really need it.

Ray Loewe  3:30  

Yeah, they know it all. And, and, and it's not knowing it all, it's not the skill set as much as the accountability. So so let's keep that in mind as we go through our conversation today. Because that, that's one of the keys that you bring to the table. One of the things I know about you is that you are always searching to dig deeper into who you are, and why you're here. So you have any comments on that at all?

Bill Hughes  4:00  

Well, yeah, it's a it's been a constant Trek, no matter what I think if you stop growing, then you're dead. So as I see it anyway, it's a it's a pursuit that pretty much everybody is on whether they realize it or not. You're not the same person, you were 10 minutes ago, let alone 10 years ago. So that's, that's something I think that has a great deal of, of gravity in and of itself. I've read most of the, the, the classics that talk about the inner thought and how one should one should be and, and it's just a great way to start because you figure, anybody that puts pen to paper and writes a book or a series of books on the topic, they've clearly put some life into it. And why reinvent the wheel when it's so much easier to hear what somebody else has to say. about it. And then at some point, I think everybody has a book get him somewhere. It's just a matter of putting pen to paper. So I'm still looking, because I think there's so much more I need to know.

Ray Loewe  5:13  

I think I think you're there Bill write the book. Okay, so we had a pre interview a while ago, and you made a bunch of statements, and I wrote them all down. And we're gonna kind of go through them. But the one I'd like to start with is that you made a comment that most people self select out of being the luckiest people in the world.

Bill Hughes  5:37  

It's true, I think, I think that it's, like I said, about the coaching thing and having an accountability partner. How many times has somebody come to you and said, Well, that was really great, or they they acknowledged some aspect of you that stands out. And you immediately take the line of humility by saying, Oh, no, no, it's just the way things are. And, again, that's the start of setting up the boundaries so that you don't have to test the water and go somewhere where it might be a little bit more, more or less unclear as to what you're going to get when you when you get there. So I think people always are challenged by their expectations. And if their expectations for themselves, or rather limited, then that's as far as they're going to go. Well,

KC Dempster  6:30  

don't you also think that there's there is a definite personality within certain people that is so change resistant, that they even though they they think that they want to be something else, or someone else, they're they're totally unwilling to embrace what they have to do to get there. And that's what I how I just defined self selecting out.

Bill Hughes  6:55  

Yeah, that there's, there's a lot, there's a lot there, because again, we are an ensemble of belief systems. And depending on how deeply ingrained those are, in your own personal system, are going to determine whether or not you can challenge some of those things and think about something else. And think about what other possibilities might be.

Ray Loewe  7:15  

Well, and this is why I think you need a coach in life, I have a coach, okay, actually, I have multiple coaches, and I keep changing them and getting new ones. And it's not because one is bad. It that, You have changing needs, and you have changing time periods in your life where you need different skill sets and different thought processes. So so let's go through a couple of things that distinguish you as a coach, I think and not all of them are coaching kind of things. But let me go through them and get your comments on them. As far as self selecting out of being the luckiest people in the world, one of your comments that you always bring up is that you always have a choice choice. Right? Absolutely. And yet, I think a lot of us don't think we have a choice sometimes so. So why do you always have a choice? And how do you latch on to that and as part of your life, so that you always have fresh options in front of you?

Bill Hughes  8:16  

Well, the the comment that you always have a choice is true to the extent that if you self select out, you've made a choice. Right? Oh, you're making a choice. Right? And all I'm suggesting is that you can choose something else if if you desire to do so because you do have that choice. And then the question always comes back as to what the ramifications are of those choices. And again, that's something that you can explore with an accountability person, whether it's a mentor or a coach, or however you want to go about it, but at the same time, I think that that that really makes the the argument that you always have a choice because those choices that you have selected, whether they be confining, and within the boundaries of what you understand to be the outcomes you desire. They are still choices all the same.

KC Dempster  9:11  

Yeah, I used to I think I mentioned in the, in our call last week that with my children, if I told them to do something and they didn't do the do it. I tried to point out to them that they just made a choice, and they've chosen the consequences. And they you know, I hope they got it they didn't seem to get it then but maybe as they got more mature they did

Ray Loewe  9:31  

well and the other thing is if you don't like your coach, you can always upgrade to the psychiatrist realm of things here too. Okay, so so you just said so many really good things. Let me hit you with another one that you brought up. And and that is what's right is not always what's best. This is pretty deep Bill even for you. It's pretty deep. So So what do you mean and how do we apply this to our lives here?

Bill Hughes  9:57  

Well, I guess When you think about it, have you ever told a white lie?

KC Dempster  10:04  

More than likely,

Ray Loewe  10:06  

and mine are always black lies

Bill Hughes  10:09  

Some people, some people see truth as the absolute, and that that's something that we always have to adhere to. And I think that's something that we can contain within ourselves. But there's times when that may not necessarily be the thing that's called for particularly if somebody's like, somebody's very close to you asks to how they look. Yeah,

KC Dempster  10:28  

do these pants make me look fat?

Bill Hughes  10:30  

Right, there you go. The second you move down the path of truth, you are rough that relationship for certain?

Ray Loewe  10:40  

so much. So you're giving me permission to lie here, Bill? Well, I,

Bill Hughes  10:45  

you know, I guess that's, that's the the, the, the limitations of our language, I think you have to ascertain, in the circumstances, what is best for the circumstance that you are wrestling with the time. And sometimes what is best is not always what is right.

Ray Loewe  11:05  

And yet, we overlook that because we're all trying to be perfect people. Right, KC,

KC Dempster  11:10  

I don't try for perfection anymore. All

Ray Loewe  11:12  

right. Talk, go go back to this absolute truth piece that we avoid a lot of times, because one of the comments that you made, again, during our pre interview is that the Absolute Truth never changes.

Bill Hughes  11:26  

That's true.

Ray Loewe  11:29  

Okay, so how do we wrestle with this, we have this thing called the absolute truth that never changes. We know that sometimes. doing what's right is not always doing what's best. Hi, how do we how do we wrestle with all this in our lives, because this is what our our podcasts are all about. It's about changing the rules. And, and in your coaching experience, I mean, give us some examples of some of the times that you have to coach people to really think about what's right, not what's best, or what's best, not what's right, or whatever.

Bill Hughes  12:08  

Well, I think it comes down to the constant wrestle we have with integrity, the those kinds of things. So when you are called upon to make a decision that you find yourself in some sort of conflict over. In particular, it could be well, I know from the professional side, I've had, I've witnessed it, where somebody goes in for tax advice, and the tax advice would lean a person in one particular direction, because that is the best the most palatable way to save money on taxes, at the same time of the transaction that they were considering that might violate that might be better to make because of some other thing that has to do, say, with family. An example was the one that I use, which might be beyond the technical scope of this conversation, but that of a family bank as an example. There are very wealthy families that want to do for their kids. And, and they would possibly consider setting up a family bank to do that. And an accountant might go through the roof over something like that, because again, it's not the most tax efficient way to, to preserve one's taxes. So in that particular case, the family decides to go forward with a bank because it's what's best for their family. It may not be what's right for their taxes.

Ray Loewe  13:33  

Okay, so what you're saying here is that coaching gets to be confusing, and that the Absolute Truth is not always the right thing. It never changes. But do we have to think around this stuff? So sorry. So you had a number of other statements? Right, I've got so many statements, we'll never get through them and I have and the period of time that we have, but you talk about does it feel right, a lot? I guess that's a continuation of the statement you were just trying to make?

Bill Hughes  14:03  

Right? Well, there are certain social situations too where one has to curtail maybe the direction they might want to go in from the standpoint that they would be stating an absolute truth, but it might be one that would be disruptive in that particular circumstance. It doesn't mean you give up the truth, but it does mean that you might you might hold back on on on your pronouncements if for no other reason to preserve social interaction into a way that's more beneficial in the moment.

Ray Loewe  14:41  

Okay, when when you're coaching somebody, and I think this is critical, because coaches are all different. What what are the major things that you look for in a client, I'm sure you get clients that you find you can't help sometimes, and yet here you are. You got to realize friendship with them. What do you do in these cases?

Bill Hughes  15:04  

Well, it depends. I mean, there are circumstances when coaching is the thing that's really required where you might need something that is a little bit more therapeutic, in which case, sitting down with a psychologist or a psychiatrist might be a better opportunity. There, there are times when when in coaching, you encounter a circumstance that, that requires that kind of professional therapeutic approach, in which case, as a coach, you have to recognize when you're in over your head with an individual, and then again, that that the challenge then is how to get them to seek the kind of help that they need to achieve the outcomes that they're really trying to get to realizing again, that there might be something organic that's interfering, and I don't have the tools for that so consequentially, I'll look for somebody else that has a different professional range and area of expertise to, to encourage that individual to pursue that direction as opposed to a coach.

Ray Loewe  16:07  

Okay, let's change direction a little bit over here. And again, this is all part of the coaching that you go through. And I think what makes you both a good coach and one of the luckiest people in the world, but but you're talking about wrestling with our own boundaries. And I think, I think that's has a lot to do with the luckiest people in the world. So So what do you mean by that and and to go one further, you tallk about feeling safe?

Bill Hughes  16:37  

Well, the two are not mutually exclusive. Safety, again, is a perception. But as a coach, you want to make the circumstances safe, so the individual can help you help them. And to that extent, safety becomes an extraordinary issue. As far as boundaries are concerned, a lot of those are based on artificial belief systems that we have, where we've been inculcated socially over the years to think a certain way and beliefs are not always true. So that's where my objective with somebody who's got destructive belief systems that that are preventing them from realizing who they are as a human being, to take them a little bit further and get them to test the water outside their, their comfort, their comfort zone as it relates to their belief systems.

Ray Loewe  17:29  

All right, so I've kind of in my own way, taking you in a convoluted path over here. So so let me let me sum up with some things that, that I think you said today that are significant. Let's start out with the fact that we all need to know who we are. And this is a journey, there's because the situation changes all of the time. One of one of the things that can help us know who we are, is a good coach. And even those of us who are coaches or consider ourselves coaches need coaches. Okay. Am I on the right track? so far? Bill?

Bill Hughes  18:07  

Yep. so far.

Ray Loewe  18:08  

Okay. Then there are some things that come into play here. And it seems to me that a lot of the things that we're talking about are not less than necessarily skill, building kinds of things. They're the internal kinds of things that that keep us from doing what we really want to do. So we get in here, we need to remember that we always have a choice and that these choices have consequence, right? Yes. And I think a lot of the way you help people do things here is that people need to realize that what's right is not always what's best. And sometimes we have those little white lies in there that need to be part of part of things. You talk a lot about feelings here and do things feel right. And then we get into this concept of our boundaries. You know, it's this idea of, if we want to be one of the luckiest people in the world, we often have to extend ourselves until we wrestle with these boundaries, because we've had sets of rules that have always bothered us. And to cross the boundary, sometimes you gotta feel safe. And I'm not sure how you do that. But are we on the right track so far? Here?

Bill Hughes  19:28  

Yeah. So far, I would suggest on the on the safety side. It's always incremental. I mean, you don't just jump into a pool of cold water. When you're getting ready to go into the pool during the summer, you might test it with your feet first. So always take things to a level that allow you to incrementally move forward. So I think that's part of it as well.

Ray Loewe  19:49  

Okay. So I think you know what, what I'm trying to get out of this thing is you've always been a mentor to me in every state of Your life when you were doing different things at different times, you were always welcome into my office because you always brought unique thought patterns and unique ideas and sometimes unique information. But but i think i think that the real benefit that I've always saw seen in you is these things that we've talked about today. I didn't realize I was getting a coach when you came into my office, but I was okay. because it gave me the idea to bounce off ideas and feelings off of you. And, and they were some of the most valuable things that I think helped us continue over relationship for 30 some years. I mean, it's almost like we're married bill.

KC Dempster  20:42  

One of the things that I really like is that, that as a coach, Bill said, Sometimes he can't always help, but he hopes to leave things better than he found them.

Bill Hughes  20:53  

Right? Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a big, that's a, that's a big thing right there. There are times when you cannot remedy the situation. But you can leave it better than you found it so that you, as an example, when I suggest when I can't help somebody in coaching, it may not be that they need to talk to a head shrink, or that sort of thing, it could very well be that they need different kind of coach, in which case, by my directing them into that into that path. I've left them better than I found them on the call. So I didn't just excuse them and and go on to my next, my next phone call, I would typically attempt to leave them something to do to to possibly move the marble a little bit far more forward for themselves.

Ray Loewe  21:41  

Okay, well, unfortunately, Bill, we are near the end of our time framework here. Is there anything you want to say to kind of sum up because I think your coaching philosophy came out today really well? Any final comment?

Bill Hughes  21:55  

Yeah, I'd say just just a quote that I've always tried to remember from a mentor coach that I that I took from, more or less a writing, I was not coached by sky directly. Wayne Dyer is an excellent author, if anybody's read any of his stuff at all. But one thing he left him with over the years, it's always served me extremely well, I think might be the best way to sum this up. "When you have a choice between being right or being kind always choose kindness." Hmm. Yeah.

Ray Loewe  22:27  

And sometimes that means not telling the Absolute Truth. Right?

Bill Hughes  22:32  

Well, that just simply means doing the best thing at the moment.

Ray Loewe  22:36  

Okay, great. I think that quote, at the end is the great place to leave. And, you know, thank you for being you. Thank you for being part of our luckiest people in the world community. And we're gonna talk more over the years. So, KC, you want to show up for

KC Dempster  22:52  

us? Yes, we have a great podcast coming up next week with another old friend. And so it's worth listening to. He's done some very interesting things in his career. And come back next week and meet our new our new guest. Right,

Ray Loewe  23:13  

everybody have a great week.

Diane Dayton  23:16  

Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want, and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topics on changing the rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe the luckiest guy in the world.

Dr. Peter Andersen: http://TheBehavioristView.com                                             

                                               [email protected]

TRANSCRIPT

Diane Dayton  0:02  

This is Changing the Rules. A podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:12  

Good morning, everybody. This is KC Dempster. And you're listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast about building, designing the life you want, and then living it to the fullest. And in a few minutes, we're going to talk with our guest, Dr. Pete Andersen, who has done just that. But first, I have to say good morning to Ray Loewe.

Ray Loewe  0:33  

Hi, everybody. So we're here in the wonderful Wildfire Studios, I think we're gonna have to put that on your logo Taylor at the beginning of Wonderful, but but it is a wonderful place. And we have started a podcast we started about a year ago, and we had no idea of what we were doing. And the great people at Wildfire were able to lead us along. And we're still here. So that's a good thing. Yeah. And if you have the need to do a podcast at some point in time, get some help. And the people at Wildfire are wonderful people to work with. So we're talking today about one of the luckiest people in the world. And let me remind everybody that the luckiest people in the world are people who design their own lives, and then step into them and live them to the max. And you're going to find our person of the day is interesting, for several reasons. One, because he's my foe.

KC Dempster  1:35  

Yes, he's Ray's arch nemesis.

Ray Loewe  1:37  

So let's bring on Dr. Pete Anderson. Peter, are you there?

Peter Andersen  1:42  

Yes, I am Ray.

Ray Loewe  1:43  

Okay, so why I have to say to begin with that, I'm a swimming competitor. And I have three, I have two other true competitors. And fortunately, they don't live in the northeast part of the country. So I get I get some freedom here. But if ever we get to a national conference, or I go west, I have Dr. Peter Anderson, who actually is one of the best breaststroke swimmers in the world. And we're going to talk a little bit about that in a minute. And and then if we go south, we have another one in Florida. And Pete and I both have to have to work really hard under those circumstances. Is that correct? Peter?

Peter Andersen  2:24  

That's correct. Yeah.

Ray Loewe  2:26  

Okay, so So tell us a little bit about your early history and. I think it's going to lead to where we want to go, which is the brand new book that you're writing. But But you grew up in a working class family, and what was your What was your first experience when it came to the swimming world?

Peter Andersen  2:47  

Well, strangely enough, great, my mother did not know how to swim. And so she might have been a little over protective. The other factor was, of course, when I was 10 years old, it was 1953. And the polio epidemic was going on, and we're kind of familiar with what viruses cause. So she thought that the virus can be transmitted through swimming pools, well, she didn't want me to go swimming, obviously. And, and so I didn't really learn to swim until I was about eight, I had to put my foot down. I said, Mom, all my buddies are up there in the big pool, and I'm down here in the kiddie pool. I'm fed up not doing that anymore. And so she got me into some lessons. And I learned to swim. And I remember one time, after I learned to swim, I think around between eight and 10, that I wanted to see how far I could go without even touching the wall. So I remember something 500 yards, but I was only like 10 or 11 years old. Yeah, I just didn't want to touch the bottom, because I didn't want to drown. But then again, I nearly had a drowning experience. Because I jumped in water. That was the time four and a half feet tall, and I jumped in water five feet deep. Underneath the guard chair in the guard didn't see me so I had to just thrash my way back to the wall. save myself. But anyway, yeah, it was a good Good, good life. And

Ray Loewe  4:05  

yeah, and yet swimming became such an important part of your life. And and we're gonna see that it had such a big impact on where you're going to with your new book and the help that you're trying to give to other people. So let me go a little history here. Dr. Pete went to perhaps the best swimming school in the country, if maybe not the world. That was a it was Indiana University. Right. And you were surrounded there with some of the best in the world, weren't you?

Peter Andersen  4:39  

Yes, I was Ray. And, you know, I will actually what was happening, we moved from this Northwest suburb of Chicago. My mother had graduated from Evanston Township High School, where Northwestern University is, so it was a very good High School. And I had really, really great coaches, that'd be burden, taskmaster, and the strange part of it was When we did a little age group workout when I was still in Arlington Heights, the suburb, a workout was something like 200 yards. So I go, I joined the high school swim team. And the first thing we did as freshmen we swim 500 yards. And then we kick 500 yards and we pulled five hundred yards. Wow. So 1500 yards, and that was our just our warmup. So it was a rude introduction to the world of competitive something. But I stuck it out. And to those coaches, the they instilled a work ethic in me. And I had wanted to be a good coach. I admired my coaches so much that I thought I could be a coach. And my mom said, because you know, high school kids get to the point. What am I going to study? What am I going to do? Who am I going to be? Hmm. And my mother said, you know, your mom's know you. I mean, they know you better than you know yourself at times. And she suggested maybe I'd become a physical education teacher because I was good know, a lot of sports, you know, things so I decided with my coaches, and my coaches helped me get into Indiana University. I was kind of a dunce. I didn't really know what was there. But later, I learned that there were nine world record holders there. Wow, And I was swimming in lanes as a freshman with right next to the world record holder and the guy who would have been the world record holder if he wasn't there. Wow. And, and I'm keeping up with them. And of course, the other part of the story is that I graduated from high school, I was five foot 6, 125 pounds, I was considered to be a runt. And so I got picked on my freshman year in college unmercifully. And, of course, I felt bad because I'm swimming lanes with all these world record holders. And I went on to become a five time all American. But I felt bad because I wasn't a world record holder. So the the level of expectation was so high that we just live with it. We just did it. And in fact, they gave me a nickname. Petey do because I was a doer. I just kinda bulled and did it. I didn't think about it. So I mean, that's kind of how all this evolved.

KC Dempster  7:02  

So So when did you hit your growth spurt? Because I know you're more than five, six now? Oh, yes.

Peter Andersen  7:09  

Well, I, we had a swim log. We were encouraged to do that. Keep track of your times and workouts and stuff so that you have a goal to know what you want to beat in the next practice. And I recall looking at that, I was five foot 6, 125 pounds in June of 61. When I graduated 10 months later, we're at the National AAU championships in Bartlesville, Oklahoma in April 10 months later, we had a Toledo scales in the locker room I got on it. Gee whiz, I've gained 32 pounds. And when I got home, I took my height. I had grown five and a half inches in 10 months. Wow. Wow, I do recall a message I asked my parents, Hey, can I have 20 bucks to go get a pair of jeans and flannel shirts? Cuz, you know, they were up to my arms? You know?

KC Dempster  7:54  

Yeah, you were wearing floods, and you didn't even choose that.

Ray Loewe  7:58  

So without going into the specifics, right now, swimming had a major impact on where you are today. And it had to do with your work ethic, I think. And it had to do with your goal setting and what you saw that you wanted, was there anything else that came out of that, that you can think of?

Peter Andersen  8:18  

Well, that's pretty much it, Ray. You know, when you go to high school, I didn't get a chance to swim in that state championship meet. And I remember waiting for the getting a ride home from our pools custodian because he drove right by my house, I didn't have to take the public transportation I'd get home about same amount of time. And we had a big balcony. 1200 seat natatorium and I remember sitting up there the coach instilled in us this you gotta wanna, you gotta want to, and I remember up there time crying my eyes out because I wanted to be a champion. I wanted it so badly. It just brought tears to my eyes, it's sometimes still does, because I remember that moment. And so then I go to Indiana and then become this person. And, you know, it's, it's kind of a fulfillment almost to a prayer. And, and, and I've always had that face within me that you know that there's opportunities, but a lot of people blow by the opportunities, they don't take advantage of them. I tried to take advantage of as many opportunities as I was given.

Ray Loewe  9:20  

Mm hmm. Okay, so so we graduated from Indiana, the swimming career at that time contended right. And now we have a degree and we have to go to work and we become an educator, right?

Peter Andersen  9:34  

That's correct. Yes.

Ray Loewe  9:36  

And, and talk a little bit about, you know, what you learned from swimming, what you learned from college and how it apply to your educational career, because you just weren't, I mean, you were a teacher at one point, but you were actually an administrator and you had to influence other people. So, talk about your education experience a little bit here.

Peter Andersen  9:59  

Yes, I I think the main thing, Ray is that you've learned discipline and personal accountability. I don't think you can achieve any top performance without those two, and you become self reliant. But as a leader, I was never an assistant coach, I was always the head coach, and then the director of aquatics for a city of 80,000 people in Des Plaines, just north of the terminal of O'Hare Airport. And so I train kids and how to teach swimming. And by doing that, of course, you become a better instructor. And my teams went from last in the conference, to second in the conference in a couple of years. So, I mean, you know, I had a good good staff to work with the Physical Education Department. But I made the mistake of resigning in my fourth year saying I'm going back get my PhD, I had hoped that I would be the coach that replaced my great coach at Indiana Council. And so I went back to my PhD at the University of Toledo. And that's where things started to formulate in my whole career.

Ray Loewe  11:03  

Okay, so you came back to swimming? Much to my chagrin. Okay. And I think one of the questions I asked you, when we did our pre interview is, why did you come back? You know, you had all the successes of swimmer, and now you came back and you're swimming with us old people a Masters swimmer. So why did you come back?

Peter Andersen  11:25  

Well, the major reason re was because when you're somebody behind the world record holder, and the guy who would have been the world record holder, you're always taking, you're always taking third in the meets. And it just ticked me off. I always wanted to be a national champion, because I never remember I said, I never got the chance to swim in the Illinois High School state championships. So I never had a chance to compete in on the world stage, like that are a big stage. And so this time, I thought, well, you know, I was, I was third in the country, actually third in the world in 1963. And I thought, well, you know, maybe it's time to put my suit on and see what I can do. At age 56, after coaching some all Americans and doing stuff, I decided to get in shape and do it for myself. And it took me a couple years to win my first national championship.

Ray Loewe  12:15  

So you are going to do that regardless what you you are going to change the venue and make it work weren't you?

Peter Andersen  12:21  

Absolutely. You have to bring it up. But But the beauty of masters swimming is I've gotten to meet wonderful people like yourself and Mike Freshly our other nemesis. And he and I are like brothers. In fact, I'm going to go visit him. You're in early December in Orlando. But no, it's it's a wonderful life. And it's good for your health. I can't tell you how many times that it's helped me become a better person.

Ray Loewe  12:49  

Yeah. And I and I think it helped you build kind of where we're going to. So I want to get one other segment of your life in here because I think it's important too you have six kids, and how many grandchildren?

Peter Andersen  13:02  

Oh, the beautiful thing is, yeah, our daughter is now expecting so it'll be my 15th grandchild. But Wow, great. The other part of the story, I always wanted a big family. But the other part of the story I need to tell you is that it's taken me three wives to get it done. But I had triplets in the first marriage, three months into my Ph. D program. So I had to complete a three year program. And two years it was I felt like a zombie. I only got four hours of sleep at a stretch. But the kids are wonderful. They live out here in San Diego with me. And I live out here with them I should say. And our daughter is married to a Marine who is a major and stationed at the 29 Palms. And so we're close to them as well. They're only three hours away. So I believe in family, you know relationships are what makes your life you know, all the other things can be said and done. But when in the end, when it's all said and done. It's all about your relationships with the friends you have and your family. Mm hmm.

Ray Loewe  14:06  

Yeah, now now we're getting to the culmination over here and and you know, it's it's, it fascinates me how people's lives affect what they do. And of course, in your case, I think you had a lot to do with structuring your life and the way it went. But you're in the process right now, of finishing up a book. I think it's done. When when do we expect to see it in what's it called?

Peter Andersen  14:33  

Well, the title of the book, it's all about leadership. It's called The Three Secret Skills of Top Performers. And the subtitle is Powerful Lessons in Transformational Leadership. The whole idea is to help people transform how they lead, whether you're the parent or you're a manager, director, CEO, even or an educator teaching your kids in a classroom. It's traditionally people have been used In only extrinsic motives, you do this for me, and I'll reward you with this like a quid pro quo. And I'm thinking that with so many people working at home nowadays with the virus and everything, we have to have a level of trust with the people doing the work. And you can't just stand over them and beat them over the head with a stick and super manage them. So you have to understand what their personal needs and values are the people doing the performance and the work, whether you're the coach, or the teacher, or the parent. And when you do that, the person then feels like, hey, this guy, or this person, my boss cares about me, that improves the loyalty you have less turnover. And there's so many good things that come from that. And that's what leadership should be.

Ray Loewe  15:42  

Okay, so you're talking about this book, you keep referring in the book to this thing called the triad so. So the triad is three. So, so, so give us an idea what these three principles are that that you're building line?

Peter Andersen  15:56  

Yeah, well, at a very early age, I think it was even the fourth grade when I read biographies and encouraged by our teachers. And I started looking at some of the commonalities because I thought, well, gee whiz, these are famous people, maybe if I do what they do, I can model that. And that might help me to become a good person. And so over the 55, some years as an educator and a swimmer, and being around top performers all my life, I've kind of seen what the commonalities are, because my PhD work is in education, it's actually in person. It's an excuse me, it's in behavioral, educational and personality psychology. That's where most of my coursework is. And so I began to see what the emerged is three common factors. And here's what they are. These are nothing like an inspirational talk that says, if I can do it, you can do it or a motivational speaker that 48 hours later, you know, the usual cliches persistence, commitment, they leave you, you're back to your old habits. But when you transform somebody, it's like riding a bike. Once you learn it, never forget how so here's what the three secret skills are. They came to me through prayer. So don't kill me, I'm just the messenger. The first one is, the first one is you increase awareness. You know, even a butterfly wouldn't survive without antenna. And you've got to be aware, but so many kids today are just thumbs on their phones, and they have no idea what even the temperature of the day is. And the next one is, you've got to enhance self evaluation. There's pre performance as we do before a swim meet. During performance, if you have a bad event, you get ready for the next one or a bad golf shot, whatever it could be. And then, of course, most people wait until they screw up, and then they save, then they do the post thing. 95% of people are great at that. But you know, they didn't prepare for the interview properly, in the pre, during, and so forth. Then the last one is top performers. I've noticed, top performers tend to not do enough of the third one, you've got to connect reward with reinforcement. What makes you want to go to work, it's not just a paycheck, it's helping people. And, and I've always enjoyed that part of my life helping people. So doing those three, you learn them in into independently, but you apply them interdependently all together. And it's a very powerful message.

Ray Loewe  18:12  

Okay, so when is his book going to be released? And how do we get it?

Peter Andersen  18:16  

Well, I'm thinking now of releasing it on Kindle for 99 cents, I'll have to get some emails out to people to do that I've got a group of people are going to help me with that. And pass along my emails. So when it's available, I'll make that known. But right now, of course, with everybody buying Christmas, but there's a lot of online shopping with Black Friday, and so forth. I'm going to wait till that gets past maybe probably mid December, I'll do the Kindle thing. Again. The second second week in February, I'm going to sell the market the paperback version 260 pages and seven by 10. It's a good book. And I'll offer it for $7 and 95 cents,

Ray Loewe  18:58  

a relative bargain of wisdom. Where else can you get wisdom for $7 and 95 cents?

KC Dempster  19:04  

That's right, because it's if it's free, it's not worth That's correct.

Ray Loewe  19:08  

So we're gonna post on your your website and how people get in touch with you with our podcast notes. And we're getting near the end of our time, but but I have a couple of questions I want to follow up with you on here, when I'm reading from here is that you've taken your whole life and this book is actually the culmination of all the all the learning the things you've learned about staying motivated. Peak Performance. What am I missing here? I mean, you've got it over raising kids, you apply it to swimming, you apply it to your life as an educator. Where are we going?

Peter Andersen  19:50  

Well, Ray, the whole thing is, I call it the Big Four. Once you learn the triad performance improvement system, the whole design is to improve performance. in less Time, but your application is to any job. And I explained that tasks like doing your laundry, I mean, it's not fun, but you got to do it. And then you've got skills I happen to be an author, speaker and a publisher have my own publishing company. And then, you know, you have relationships, not just with mom and dad, if they're still alive, or your kids and so forth. But no matter even what religion you are, there's a higher power in your life, hopefully. And there's a relationship there. And so once you apply the triad, you get to apply it all the time in your life, but and it goes on forever. Once you learn it, you can apply it forever. And that's what makes top performers.

Ray Loewe  20:37  

Okay. Dr. Peter Andersen, it's been wonderful talking with you. And we'll get you back again, probably next year after the book's out away, because I want to see where you're going with all of this. The life that you've lived here is one of being successful in a whole lot of different ways. But you're not done because the book is coming out at the later stages of, of your career here, although you kind of retired from education, didn't you?

Peter Andersen  21:08  

Yes, I was a K 12 school superintendent, and as a small rural district in Southern Illinois. And, but I could see the frustration, I could see that there were teachers who were coaches, and then they would have classrooms right next to the teachers who didn't coach and yet their students in their classrooms are really highly motivated. And then the teachers right next door to them, weren't is like, Yeah, and I could not understand that. And so that's what kind of drove me to write the book in the first place

Ray Loewe  21:36  

to help educators. And so we'll all read the book, and we'll master the triad and then we'll talk to you about next steps later. So again, have a great day. And thanks for being with us. And KC, where we go next.

KC Dempster  21:50  

Well, I'm going home. No, we'll be back in another week and have a very interesting talk with a friend that we've known for a long time but haven't spoken to in quite a while.

Ray Loewe  22:06  

That's That's, uh I have no idea where we're going. Okay, well, we'll see. We'll see in a week and, and stay tuned to meet one another one of the luckiest people in the world and Dr. Pete, Thank you and have a great day.

Diane Dayton  22:22  

Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want, and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topics on changing the rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe the luckiest guy in the world.

Contact Clint through TheWritingCompany.com 

TRANSCRIPT

Diane Dayton  0:02  

This is changing the rules. A podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:12  

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to changing the rules. I'm KC Dempster. And I'm here with Ray Loewe in the wonderful Wildfire Studios in beautiful downtown Woodbury, New Jersey. And in a couple of minutes, we're going to be speaking with an old friend. And I'm not talking age old. I'm talking. We've known for many years. His name's Clint Willis, and I'm really looking forward to this. So good morning, Ray.

Ray Loewe  0:36  

Good morning. You stole my line about wonderful, wonderful Wildfire.

KC Dempster  0:41  

Well, I just thought we could share.

Ray Loewe  0:43  

So now I have to regroup. Yeah, okay. So anyway, we are fortunate enough to be here in the Wildfire Podcasting Studios. And, and Wildfire has been a wonderful resource for us. About a year ago, we started doing podcasts, we had no idea of what to do. They took us through the process they have is up and running. I'm still not sure we know what we're doing. But But

KC Dempster  1:07  

well, we've been through a lot together. I mean, we did a lot, a lot of them from home during the social isolation. And so we've we've had our ups and downs.

Ray Loewe  1:17  

And if you ever want to go on the podcasting, business, wildfires a place to go, they've got they've got the right people to get us going. And we're thankful for that.

KC Dempster  1:26  

In this week of Thanksgiving. Yes,

Ray Loewe  1:28  

that's correct. So when we talk today, we're talking to one of the luckiest people in the world. And the luckiest people in the world are those people who personally design their own lives. And then they step into them and live them to the max. And when we talk to Clint in a minute, you're going to find out he very definitely is one of them. Also, there are a couple of mindsets that the luckiest people in the world have. And if you listen to what Clint says you're going to find that they pop up all the time. One is they know how to be happy. Number two is they tend to follow what's fascinating and motivating and interesting. Mm hmm. Number three, they really know themselves. Mm hmm. And number four, is kind of a little different. But it's how do you get space to do what you want? That's part of designing your own life? Yes. So let's take a quick station break here. So everybody knows they're listening. to us, and then we're gonna come back and start talking to Clint Wallace.

Diane Dayton  2:34  

You're listening to changing the rules with KC Dempster. And Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world. We will be right back with more exciting information.

KC Dempster  2:43  

And Welcome back, everybody. And, Ray, please hurry up and introduce Clint because this is going to be a great, great show.

Ray Loewe  2:51  

We'll Clint Clint is always a hard person to introduce. Because we've known him for a long time we we met him long ago, when he was a writer for Tme/Life and Money Magazine. And we were a source of college planning information for him at the time and, and over a long period of time, we kind of developed this relationship and at the time, Clint was on living in New York City. And Clint, tell us a little bit about your life at time, your life at Time/Life. And and then and then we're going to kind of branch off into where you went, because that's where that's where it gets interesting. Yeah. And that's where that's where you become the luckiest guy and luckiest people in the world.

Clint Willis  3:42  

Sure, so I went to work at Time Inc, in 1981, I think. And I was I think, 24, almost 25. And, and it was great. I had a great time I learned a lot there I was I started out as a fact checker. So I learned a lot about getting it right. There was a it felt like the stakes were enormous, you know, you would publish a monthly magazine, it would be out there for a month and you couldn't go online and correct your mistakes it was there an any little mistake would be picked up by one of our some point I think we had a couple million readers. And they you know, they paid whatever it was two bucks for the magazine and they see a mistake and that was like, Yes. There. And then, you know, if you had so if you had then it could be the tiniest little mistake. So anyway, I learned a lot there about respect for about getting it right and about making things clear, because a lot of times factchecking was about interpretation. Like how will people read this sentence. Well, you know, so you ended up putting yourself in the readers mind and I spent many long nights really fun but an exciting for me as a young guy sitting in the timeline building with a view of the radio center. You know, radio, music hall across the street, and just sort of like sitting in there with some editor who'd been like, through the wars at Time magazine or wherever, and, and getting grilled by them about stuff. It was really fun. But um, but I had, you know, I was married, and we ended up with a couple of little kids. And after being in and out of that building, kind of take some time off from freelance, and I got recruited through a startup magazine for a while, after about eight or 10 years of that I started to feel like I, you know, I was ready to do something more. That was more mine, you know, cuz you kind of it was a little bit like joining the army or something might be I mean, I never was in the army. But But you're you were in part of this huge organization, and you had your place, and you needed to accommodate the mores and the standards and the history and the culture. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I had my own culture, I was trying to develop like, Who am I, what am I into a woman? So I started looking around,

Ray Loewe  6:06  

and you ran away to Maine,

Clint Willis  6:09  

we did. So my wife, Jennifer and I, we had our two little boys at that point, we realized that New York City was a tough place to raise his family on a journalist salary. And I also had ambitions as a writer, you know, at that point, I wanted to write about some other stuff. And so we had friends who moved up to Portland, Maine, and we went to visit them, and we just loved it. I mean, you're so much closer to the to nature, ocean, and the mountains, and the trees and the sky and all that and the quiet. And, and the the quality of life was, you know, way more accessible to us as a young couple. And I figured I could freelance, you know, I had, I had some skills at that point, thanks to my mentors and teachers at Time Inc. And I knew something about how the world worked. I was interested in everything, it felt like I just wanted to know more, you know, and that was a great kind of motivation for a reporter and for a freelancer, because I just went looking for work from everywhere, like I remember, I wrote a tennis column for a magazine I, I wrote a, I wrote personal essays, I wrote a lot of personal finance stuff, because that was where I had a real strong skill set that set me apart from a lot of journalists, there weren't a lot of financial journalists in those days back, this would be back in the early 90s, like 93. So I could make money pretty efficiently doing that and kind of start to clear space to do other work. And I hired a couple of young guys, right when I got here, right out of college, they'd gone to school up here at I think both of them are from Bowden. And we I use them as my fact checkers and my reporters. And eventually, that kind of vary over over many years, and in different ways have evolved into what's now a Content Agency in Portland and it called The Writing Company. And it has a team of about 20 writers and 20. Plus writers and editors are really a community that we develop over the years have have an add three younger partners who run the business now. And that's been part of my journey, you know, figuring out how to own a business and how to build a community and how to be a good mentor myself after having had so many myself. And I just want to give a shout out early in the interview to the folks who run The Writing Company. Now they do an incredible job, doing content for all sorts of big financial service companies, financial advisors, healthcare technology companies, a lot of work with a lot of big agencies. They've really built something amazing up here and I'm my role these days is I'm effectively retired, you know, I kind of have a few years looked up ago and said, you know, it's really time for them to run it. And as long as I'm in the room that's difficult for them. And it's difficult for me, right, I stepped out of decision making and now I'm kind of this not even counted, but like eminence grise or something, old guy. Yeah.

Ray Loewe  9:12  

Like trot out and ask them a question. You'll figure out your place sooner or later. He said, he

KC Dempster  9:16  

He's emeritus now,

Ray Loewe  9:18  

yeah, so so I find this process interesting. So you have to be a pretty gutsy guy. Because to leave a safe, secure situation with a big company, and relocate out of New York domain without really having a firm job. You know, you're reaching into your skill. So why, you know, how did that affect the family? And how did that make you feel at that time?

Clint Willis  9:45  

Yeah, you know, it's really funny. I felt I felt so excited and so free when we left New York and I left Time Inc. to start my own thing. You know, I had I don't know where I had the confidence to do it. To be honest. I you know, when thing I wanted to talk about today was just when I think about what allowed me to make choices that have led me down a good path in terms of my own happiness and, and, you know, things like that, a lot of it was about getting to that place where you feel safe, where you don't feel quite so scared, or you feel safe enough anyway to take risks. And, you know, for me, as you know, like, early, early in my, well, when I was around 30, I remember one day, my wife looked at me and I looked at her and, and we both just sort of said, I needed to get, I need to get some therapy, like I was acting out, I was still kind of big baby, you know, 30 years old, we went to babe we had a baby of our own at that point, it was like, we don't need two babies in this family ever tantrums. And I was unhappy, you know. And so I went to see a therapist, and that was enormously important in helping me kind of sort through my own issues and grow up enough to realize, to take a more constructive view towards things and to be able to feel safe enough to start to take chances, and do that and start to look for things that would make me happy. You know, and, and that it was so obvious to me, when, towards the end of our time in New York, that it would make me happier to live somewhere like this, that I was willing to risk, you know, taking a hit financially. And, and my wife, Jennifer has always been game for anything that led in the direction of you know, everybody being happier. Yeah. Yeah. It's no fun to be married to someone who's not happy. So your happiness is my happiness to some degree. Yeah.

Ray Loewe  11:43  

So you know, you seem to dwell on this a lot. And one of the things you said in our pre interview, and I'll get this on the air, because I'm not sure , you put it on there. But one of the reasons you marry Jennifer was because she was a happy person.

Clint Willis  11:57  

I saw that that sort of oriented, she had an open heart, and you could just see it in her face, like the first time I laid eyes on her, you know, I had a sort of a dark, brooding kind of thing going on. And she just looks filled with joy and the capacity for joy. And I thought, that's the direction I want to go in, I knew that something in me knew that, that that was where, you know, that was the way to go. And I think my whole life since then, has been, and maybe before that, too, we're always looking for where's the light? Where's the joy? Where's the where's the safety first, because I think most people to get to joy, you got to get to safety. First you got to show you got to feel safe. And so I'm always like, when people ask me, like sometimes young people or whatever will ask me about what should I do or whatever. And I'm a firm believer in touchstones, like being able to, to draw back to something you know, deeply, and then operate from that place when you're making choices. And one thing I know deeply, and I feel that way, as an editor and a writer. What's true here is often where I'll be asking myself, what and what will the reader what does the reader want? You know, and in this case, when you're making decisions about happiness, it's like, how, how can I feel safe enough to relax enough to feel like I know what to do, you know which direction to go. And, and that finding that safety is so important, you know, if you just rush forward and make choices, out of desperation, or anxiety, or fear or anger, you're going to make bad choices, generally speaking. And if you come from a place of clarity and calm, even if it's momentary, it'll move you a little bit in the right direction, where safety will be easier to find next time, your decisions just get better and better. And sometimes you need help with that. That's why therapy talk therapy was has been a hugely important part of my, my journey. But there are other ways to find it, too. You know, and I think one of them is finding things you love doing and spending at least a little time doing that, like no matter what it is, how crazy it seems, whether it sort of takes up time that you think you don't have or even money, you think your own have, if you sometimes it's worth making that investment, in your own sense of safety and calm. And then, like I said, that's a platform to look for happiness from.

Ray Loewe  14:19  

Yeah, you know, you you said a couple of other things, going back to our kind of our pre interview here and, and you said one of the things that excited you about going off on your own was that you always wanted to figure out how the world works. And when you were at  Money, you were kind of constrained to being the financial guy now it paid you okay, but but talk a little bit about this. Your search for how the world works and how writing has helped you and how your journey has helped you do that. Tell me how your journey you know the the the the the trip to Maine, the starting of The Writing Company. Yeah, they all fit I think

Clint Willis  15:01  

Yeah, well, you know, growing up as a little kid, I grew up in South Louisiana. I was born in New Orleans, and I grew up there and and Lafayette. And I remember being a really tiny little guy living on Joseph street in New Orleans, and standing on the sidewalk, I guess, and looking up and seeing the cars go by on our little street and thinking, who's in charge of this? How did this happen? Like, what? How did this possibly happen? It's so important. Everyone has a place to live. And there's cars and streets who did because I didn't know anyone who was doing that, as far as I could tell. Right. Yeah. So that sense of puzzlement and and interest in that somehow, I think I think for me, it was part of feeling safe in the world is knowing Well, what's going on, which I think is true for everyone, right? That's why Asian can be such a great empowering thing. Because you're like, Oh, I get it. That's what's happening here. So what's my place in all that? How can I make a contribution? You know, what do I have to worry about? So anyway, like a journal, I started out in college, I thought I was going to be an academic, I thought I was going to study politics. So I even went to grad school briefly. And I realized I didn't want to do the academic thing, where you dive very deeply into one topic, or at least that's how I understood and I think that was the program I was in. But I was like, What about being a journalist where you just get to do a story, ask a bunch of questions, and then move on to the next story The next day, if it's a daily, you know, and I'll learn a lot really quickly. So I'm, that always kind of guided me. And it's got and it guided me as a journalist. And then it guided me as a, as a writer. And it guided me as a, you know, because I ended up with a career in books, I wrote a book, kind of a biography, a group biography of a bunch of English climbers, called The Boys of Everest, which was kind of one of my ambitions was to do a book like that. And it was like, great, I had to learn all about like, English society. After World War Two, and into the 60s and 70s, that I learned, I learned, I had to learn about climbing. And then to do that I got really involved in climbing, partly as a research project, but partly because I had always loved it, because I was introduced to it at summer camp. But I ended up learning all about that little world. And you know, and then in running a business, turning The Writing Company into, you know, some kind of an actual business, I had to learn about small business and making those choices. It's all interesting, right? And it all makes you feel me feel like I know what I'm doing. And I'm a little bit safer in the world.

KC Dempster  17:34  

And you're an intensely curious person, I think,

Ray Loewe  17:36  

I think so. You know, talk about surfing, for a minute, surfing, got into your life somehow here, too. Yeah.

Clint Willis  17:43  

Yeah, yeah, totally. It's related to all this stuff. I mean, in terms of being curious, that comes from anxiety, I think it's a small child, I was very anxious, because my family was like, I really, really have. I've had a really interesting journey with my my birth family, like in terms of coming to terms with who those people were and what they were trying to do and what was going on. And there was some mental illness in my family, and you know, that kind of stuff. So as a little kid, I was kind of looking around going, alright, what's gonna happen next, what's going on here? So I think curiosity is partly grounded, something like anxiety can channel into something like curiosity, which can be really productive, right? And my focus on feeling safe in the world comes from that personal history. So everyone else will have their own narrative and their own story. And maybe safety won't be as big an issue for them, maybe something else will. But uh, I gotta drink something.

Ray Loewe  18:44  

Well, you know what, while you're taking a drink there, I think there's a pattern here that is really interesting. And it's a role model that you can be for other people. You've taken your curiosity, you've taken your skills, you kind of Escape from New York and rebuild your life. You you founded this Writing Company. And I think one of the other things that you said about the writing company is it was one of the first uh companies of this kind in the country. And that one of the reasons you did it was also to be able to give you a little space to be able to make money and then give you space to follow what you want to do. And and it's that pattern that keeps coming back up. So how would you How would you coach other people who are trying to do things in following what they want?

Clint Willis  19:36  

Yeah, so yeah, I mean, I shared this with you in the pre interview about this Bible story I was familiar with from my childhood, where someone asked Jesus, should we should you pay taxes? Should people pay taxes and they're trying to trap him into saying, because if he says, Yes, his followers will be angry. And if he says, No, the Romans will, perhaps arrest him and he says, render this to get here. His answer render the Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's. And I love that story. And it provided a kind of frame for me when I was thinking about how to spend my time, you know, as somebody who wanted to make a living and, and, you know, help support my family and, and all that, I also wanted to do things that was really important to me at the time to do my own writing, actually, that was a real motivator, where I wouldn't necessarily get hired to do it, but I wanted to do it anyway. And, you know, so I wanted to write books and that kind of stuff. And so I decided, I'm going to render unto Caesar that, which is Caesar, I'm going to figure out a way to make a living as efficiently as I can, without, without doing anything that doesn't feel good to me, you know, I'm going to try to enjoy it, I'm going to try to do a good job, I'm going to, you know, be responsible. But I'm also going to try to clear some space to do whatever I want as a writer. And that's the part that goes to God, you know, is a sort of conceptual approach. And so I did you know, and one of the ways to be really efficient, and also to play to some of my own interests was to hire other people, as a writer to support my writing, and then eventually to train them to write and to convince our clients that it was okay, if I didn't write it, it was okay, if I just edited it, I'd make sure it was, you know, it was it was the kind of thing they would get from me. But somebody else was doing a lot of the work. And that was, that was kind of a new thing. I think at the time, there weren't a lot of people doing that. And I was doing it for personal reasons, I didn't have in mind that particular inventing a new kind of editorial agency, and I'm not sure I did invent it, but, but I kind of did mean, maybe someone else did over somewhere else, too. But I was inventing it as I went along. And then I had people who were very early in the process, you know, becoming my partners, as well, as, you know, people I was mentoring. And then, you know, like, so I and I loved that I found it incredibly empowering. And I love collaborating with people that I love. Like, you know, it's amazing to collaborate with someone there where there's mutual respect, and, and a sense of comfort and safety and friendship. And I got a lot of that in my life, which is one reason that I am very lucky. Other people are amazing. And yeah, which is a whole

Ray Loewe  22:24  

nother show. Yes, you're one of the luckiest people in the world. There's no doubt about that. And, you know, unfortunately, we're at the end of our time limit here. And I think what I'd like to do, I'm going to be really curious to find out what's the next step and where you go. And so what we're going to have to do is do another one of these a year or two down the line here and find out what's changed. And and I think that what I hope a lot of people who listen to this will do is to step out from their their restrictions, create their own life, think about what they want, and then think about how they're going to do it and make it work. And Clint, thank you so much for showing us and telling us about how you did that.

Clint Willis  23:06  

So much fun. Thank you so much, guys. All right,

Ray Loewe  23:09  

and have a great day. And KC, we'll be back next week with another.

KC Dempster  23:14  

Yes, we're going to be talking to Ray's arch nemesis.

Ray Loewe  23:18  

We're going into the Swimming World next year.

KC Dempster  23:20  

Don't give it away.

Ray Loewe  23:22  

It's gonna give me trauma and anxiety, all that stuff that Clint got rid of. All right, everybody. Well, thanks for being with us. And we'll see you next week.

Diane Dayton  23:31  

Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want, and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topics on Changing the Rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe the luckiest guy in the world.

Reach Sharon McCullough at http://www.expertevents.com

Reach Kris Parsons at parsons-pr.com

TRANSCRIPT

Diane Dayton  0:02  

This is changing the rules, a podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:12  

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Changing the Rules. I'm KC Dempster. And I'm here with Ray Loewe in the wonderful and continually morphing Wildfire Podcast studios in Woodbury, New Jersey, that every time I come in here, there's been something different added or moved or whatever. And it's kind of like, what are we going to see today?

Ray Loewe  0:35  

That's because Wildfire is a company on the move. Yes. Okay. Yes.

You know, and again, let me make my comment. I'm gonna let you get a word in edgewise here, because our experience with Wildfire has been a wonderful one.

KC Dempster  0:49  

They should have a mute button.

Ray Loewe  0:51  

Well, okay, well, you can mute me just hit me with that hammer you have. But But I think one of the wonderful things that happened is that they have all the experience that allowed us to go from knowing absolutely nothing to where we are now, which is two steps above nothing. But But, but we do have a podcast every couple weeks, and we are on the air. And we do actually get wonderful people to come in and talk with us. And we got a couple of them today. Okay, and what else does everybody need to know about Changing the Rules?

KC Dempster  1:24  

Well, Changing the Rules, as our wonderful introduction said, Is this is about creating the life that you want, and then living it to the fullest. And what we do with Changing the Rules podcast is we bring interesting people in who are doing interesting things, because we want to provide fodder for the people who are or want to be the luckiest people in the world. Because maybe there's something that they hadn't thought of that that we talked about

Ray Loewe  1:54  

Fodder?

KC Dempster  1:55  

I knew you were going to give me a hard time on that.

Ray Loewe  1:58  

How about a role model?

KC Dempster  1:59  

Well, that's that's too, but fodder goes beyond that.

Ray Loewe  2:04  

Well, we have two people sitting here we have Sharon McCullough, we have Kris Parsons back again, she just keeps coming back all the time.

Kris Parsons  2:12  

I love it so much.

Ray Loewe  2:13  

And they're  two people that work together in a very interesting business during these times. And I think the way they've handled it is a really interesting role model for people that want to be the luckiest people in the world.

KC Dempster  2:28  

Are you sure it's not fodder?

Kris Parsons  2:29  

I was just gonna say maybe fodder,

Ray Loewe  2:32  

Mater Mater doesn't work, you know, father gets all the credit. So anyway, we all have a lousy sense of humor Will you know, I'll concede to that. But let me introduce Sharon McCullough. Sharon, just say hi.

Sharon McCullough  2:46  

Hi.

Ray Loewe  2:47  

And Kris Parsons. Just say hi.

Kris Parsons  2:49  

Hi, not Hello, hi.

Ray Loewe  2:53  

Okay,

Kris Parsons  2:53  

We're changing the rules, Ray. We're changing the rules

Ray Loewe  2:56  

well, and I expect that so. So let's start by talking to Sharon a little bit first, because everybody knows who you are Kris. So So Sharon, and I had the opportunity to meet and talk a little bit before this interview and, and Sharon used to work for my alma mater. Okay, University of Pennsylvania. And explain a little bit about what you were doing with Penn because it's the crux of what you're doing now and where you're going, I think,

Sharon McCullough  3:27  

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. I started working at Penn when I was 20. I guess, 2, by that point. And I had a wonderful 12 years there good experience. I spent a lot of time at the Wharton School. And one of the things that I look back on and question myself on is, after all those years at Penn, where I could have taken classes for free. And I was at the Wharton School and then started a business. Why didn't I Why didn't I do that out then I didn't. But I sort of muddled through with getting started. But my time at Penn was was wonderful. It was a great place to be, a great place to work, lots of energy, I got wonderful experience kind of thrown into the deep end of the pool at a job change when I got put on the committee as part of my role in the events office for development to help plan the 250th anniversary for Penn. Wow. So that was coming out of that I knew that this was event planning was what I wanted to do. I subsequently switched to the Alumni Affairs Office, which gave me good perspective on big development events versus big alumni events. The budgets are significantly different. So I learned a little bit more about finding some corporate sponsors and some funding and making those alumni programs. Well done. And after 12 years, I got the entrepreneurial bug and decided to start Expert Events and purely grassroots, I got a client and then bought a fax machine and ran it from my house for a while and finally moved to center city where I was for 20 years. And then with the way the world is now two years ago, where it doesn't matter where you are to work, and I go to my clients, as opposed to having them come to my office, I gave up that center city space at the end of the lease and moved back home. So I'm able to I do a lot of traveling or did before COVID.

Kris Parsons  5:33  

You had to pivot,

Sharon McCullough  5:33  

I had to pivot. That's the that's the industry where to industry words, pivot and hybrid. And I think we talked a little bit about that last week.

Ray Loewe  5:40  

Yeah. And and so let's define for everybody what you mean, when you talk about event planning, because it's really everything and anything and

KC Dempster  5:50  

People think weddings, but it goes so much farther.

Ray Loewe  5:52  

Yeah. So what does it take? What does it take, you know, you're looking at helping a charitable organization, raise money. And that's primarily where you center most of your activity.

Sharon McCullough  6:05  

Higher Ed and nonprofit. Yeah.

Ray Loewe  6:06  

Okay. So So what kind of events are you doing? And then what is the what are the some of the pieces that go into this?

Sharon McCullough  6:13  

Well, there are a lot of pieces. And I think, again, going back to Penn and taking all the experience that I had there, which was a lot of communications and publications work, the alumni constituency building piece, supporting fundraising, looking at all of that, and working with my clients to you know, when we get on board, the first thing I do with people is get everybody around the table that's going to touch whatever event or series of events, we're going to plan and make sure that everybody's on the same page. Because especially in large organizations, that's sometimes really difficult. And setting goals for what they want the events to do for them and fundraising is whether it's a direct line fundraiser or not, fundraising is always the primary goal. But there are others, like how much media coverage are you looking for? Are you going to sit? What do you when you wake up after it's over? How do you know when you were a success if you weren't, if you don't know what you were trying to achieve. And so setting those goals down, and then throwing out every event idea in the known universe, I work with a lot of colleges and universities on major anniversaries. After the 250th s at Penn, I worked with Columbia on launching their 250th. And I've done the centennial at Pace University. And that's where we start each time, you know, what do you want to get out of this? And then let's throw out every idea in the book, you know, from? How are you going to license a new logo to put it on the teddy bear that you're selling the bookstore? To? What do you want the events to do? And and then measure up those events against the goals their people's ideas against the goals, and try to keep people from spinning their wheels so that if they don't answer the goals, let's not spend time on it. You don't want to do it. Right. And, you know, massaging that a little bit as we go along.

Ray Loewe  8:11  

Yeah, I'm sure that's especially difficult because you're dealing often with volunteer boards.

Sharon McCullough  8:16  

You got that right.

Ray Loewe  8:17  

Yeah. Well, I know what they're like. Yeah. And, you know, to one thing, when somebody is getting paid to do something in another zone, it's kind of hard to fire that volunteer sometimes you know, when Right, yeah.

Sharon McCullough  8:28  

And I and I've been in that, you know, position where I serve on some boards. And I think, oh, boy, you know, I got a board meeting coming up. And I haven't even looked at this stuff. And then I think, Well, you know, that's what you're kind of dealing with people along to do. And it is hard. It is hard when you're a volunteer and those people do incredible work for all the organizations that I work for.

Ray Loewe  8:50  

And during your career here. You aren't necessarily all the events for every organization, but you were doing with the big ones that somebody had to focus on. Right?

Sharon McCullough  8:59  

Well, that's right. And I look back again, at my my time at Penn, I was an event staff person. And there are loads of people at Penn that do events across all the schools and centrally but when it came to the 250th they still hired an outside consultant for the major pieces of that because all of us had our roles that we do year in year out annually the reunions, this and that and these blips in the scale are where I really focus my marketing for the business because I don't want to come in and step on the event planners that are on staff on their toes. But on the other hand, I want to be a support to them. When big things like inaugurating a new president or launching a capital campaign. Those kind of things come along. You still have to maintain your regular job. Yeah. So having an extra pair of hands and and we bring a whole support group of people, my staff and I learned a long time ago that the best way To get the best people is to work in partnership with people that don't do that support what I do, but don't necessarily I don't do it. So that's when I started working with Kris. And I have some fundraising consultants that we bring in where that level of support is needed speech writers, AV techs, that can be consultants, as well as providing the actual services at the event.

Ray Loewe  10:27  

Okay, so you did this for 28 years on your own right. And you had offices and how many cities?

Sharon McCullough  10:35  

Well, three, Philadelphia is obviously my home base, I live here. But I have office use in Manhattan, a graphic designer, that's another partnership that that we bring in with people. I worked with her. She redesigned the Wharton alumni magazine for me when I was the editor. And so I've known her for a long time. And she has beautiful office space three blocks from Penn Station. So that's, that's a great base for me when I've got a lot of New York clients. And I also have one in Virginia.

Ray Loewe  11:10  

You know, being a Wharton alumnus, and I get that magazine every month, I guess I really had to look at the artwork now and pay attention, right? Well,

Sharon McCullough  11:17  

you should. But what you really need to do is go back about 30 years and pull one of those out of the archives. Well, so those are the ones I was working on.

Ray Loewe  11:25  

30 years ago I was a Wharton alumnus too.  So anyway, so let's get rid of this time stuff. So. So anyway, you did this in your own way. And you built this pretty good business, helping a lot of organizations raise money. And then I think March 16, is an interesting day this year. Yes. Tell us about March 16,

Sharon McCullough  11:47  

well, probably a week, or maybe 10 days ahead of March 16. Kris and I are both working with a client in Philadelphia, and we had the the hard meeting with them that just said, you know, it was a it was a very, very food focused tasting event for about 600 people, lots of lots of touching, yes. A and, you know, in an indoor space. And we just looked at each other and said, Well, you know, we can't do this. And so what are we going to do, and I've been working with several different clients who have approached it very differently. Some, you know, kind of just dug in, and the smaller organizations had to focus on what they do day to day. And that was the priority, then their staff was the next priority. So most of those organizations just pushed a year, you know, just said, Okay, we're not doing 2020, right. And some organizations said, Well, you know, we've got to get out there with something. And so I've been working, mainly consulting with some AV partners who have really approached the whole thing in a bigger way. And Kris and I are working now with that same group that had to cancel on that the event that got moved to 2021. And we in fact, even moved it a little further than exactly a year we moved from March to June of '21.

Kris Parsons  13:14  

So we couldn't be outside.

Sharon McCullough  13:15  

And we're still looking now at only outdoor venues. So we don't have to hopefully, back up again, no matter what happens. But most groups I'm working with now we're working on parallel tracks, you know, if I'm working on a big conference, that'll happen up in Providence, Rhode Island, also, next year, and to basically be ready to take it all virtual, because it is a conference and it's panels, and we could shoot those in advance, and maybe getting them to look at regionalizing that a little more so that people don't have to get on airplanes and try to travel. So you've got it, just think around all the angles, and trying to get it off the ground. Again,

KC Dempster  13:59  

it's a challenge to your creativity, really,

Kris Parsons  14:02  

it's really talked about Changing the Rules, we've had to do a lot because you really have to look at things in a completely different way. And one of the things you know, I do the PR with Sharon is the communication. A lot of people did really panic when when this COVID hit and just stopped talking to their customers, their constituents. And so what Sharon and I did was talk to them and say, Look, you just can't stop the communication. You have to keep reaching out letting everybody know what's going on, you know, sharing with them that you're trying to figure it out to but don't let go of them and especially now because with online and virtually that's what everyone's doing. So you're better off talking to them more that way trying to figure out what the next steps are. Right.

Ray Loewe  14:43  

You know, when when we look ahead, okay. Hopefully, you know we have a virus now. Vaccine. All right. We don't sweat the little thing. You know, but but hopefully we have a vaccine And hopefully it's going to allow us to open up a little bit. But we don't know. And we don't know if there's going to be another COVID. Somewhere along the line, we've kind of learned our lesson. We've also learned that we have tools in terms of the internet and Zoom and, and all of these other things in the background. So when you think and when you work with larger organizations, where's the thinking going now? What what are some of the innovations that are going to come in?

Sharon McCullough  15:29  

I think the important thing is to take those, if you are going to do your event, in a virtual format, that you totally, you do have to totally rethink it. You know, people walk into a gala in a ballroom and you have cocktails and you sit down and you have a bit of program, and then you have some dessert, and then you dance, it's three or four hours out of your life. And people you know, you get dressed up, it's a nice evening out, it's fun. Well, if you're going to do that, and expect people to sit either at their desk or watch their TV in their living room, it has to be a very different event, the recommended is 45 to 75 minutes, that's what you can capture with that. So if your CEO got to speak before, for 10 to 12 minutes, which is still too long, they get two or three. And you're you've got a really that's where Kris comes in with that as well getting you know, directing the messaging. And my my one thing that I always hold out, that's absolutely the most important with any event that you do, no matter how you do it, is that if you're not delivering your message and mission, you've you've missed the whole point. So making sure that you're condensing those events, so you don't have multiple ways across the course of a whole evening. To do that, that you've done it in a concise way that's entertaining. And that those that event, just like a stage managed event in a ballroom has to never have a second, that's missing. Right, right, because you're gonna lose them.

Ray Loewe  17:04  

You know, when when? What do you do about things? So when you look at the old style event food and drink at dancing, we're probably major parts of this, and you probably throw in a silent auction to where you can do the silent auction probably online. But what do you do about the food and the booze and the other stuff? And how do you keep keep people interested?

Sharon McCullough  17:28  

Well, I think that it is definitely harder. But the good thing, from from these organizations from their standpoint is Yes, they're going to spend a lot more money on the technology. And and you don't do it via Zoom, you do there are much more professional, high net net on that to be able to do, but you do have to engage them. And that's where corporate sponsorship comes in. I know that the Preservation Alliance for instance, in Philadelphia, I didn't work on it, but their recent event, when you signed on, they they partnered with DiBrunobrothers, and at the level you signed on for, that's the the kind of size goodie box that you got delivered to your house, from DIBruno's. And I think that's, that's what people have to do. We've, we've talked with alumni groups that you know, send, you know, sign up with a winery and send three or four bottles of wine and do just small audience specific events. And I think that, that those are all excellent ideas, and that, that they were very well done. To do that down to you know, a cooking demonstration or whatever, you know, you're going to send people the ingredients, and they can they can join in and, and do that there's all kinds of creative ideas that you can do to engage your audience. And the real upside of the whole virtual piece, I think will continue once we can even go back to big time, hundreds of people in a space, because it does allow you to have those hundreds of people, but also reach out to the thousand that you know, maybe halfway across the country that aren't going to get on plane and come to your event but great for Penn reunions, or any schools reunions that you know, you get to the evening dinner and the President's going to speak you didn't you didn't show up for you 40th reunion because you weren't gonna come to Philly from California. But you could still get the message

Ray Loewe  19:34  

I didn't show up and I'm in Philadelphia. I hate to admit that but but but anyway, you know, I think what your clients are going to see here is the value you bring to the table. And it's not the same old same old at this point. It's going to be brand new creative stuff and, and we're getting near the end of our time, but I do want to ask one question, you know, and take this down now to my level over Hear? Because I'm worried about how do I get together with my family? How do I create interesting things now, so that I can bring my sisters from Denver and from Chicago into a picture where we can't get together anymore. And I understand there's two ways now that you can ship meals to people, you can do all kinds of great, and this isn't what you do, but it's part of the change part of the technology that's been there.,

Sharon McCullough  20:31  

Oh absolutely. They're, they're all good. I mean, I think that's a that's a side of this industry, that's that seeing a nice increase in business, to be able to, to do that there's also technology is so wonderful now that you know, you can get your whole family to video, something there, even these, these websites that you set up to, you know, send little tribute videos, everybody could contribute to that. And then, you know, everybody could see it in their own homes and feel like, you know, you could still do the do the Zoom up, which you probably do at the family level. But you can then you know, click on somebody's computer that's going to pull up that video, and you can all watch it together and see everybody's good comments.

Ray Loewe  21:17  

You know, Kris, Kris has got me doing a coffee demo for my friend for Christmas, you know, and, and, and I, you see incredibly interesting things happening with this change. So everybody looks at it initially and says what a downer. And I don't think it's a downer at all. I think the creative people are going to probably prosper from this, I think your business is going to boom, because you have the technology expertise along with the event planning expertise. And you're going to be able to bring that to clients to don't otherwise know what to do.

Kris Parsons  21:46  

And the nice thing about Expert Events, Sharon's Expert Events is that she is willing to to sit with everybody and have a consultation, sit and talk to them and say, you know, what is your situation and analyze some of your current events, how they are because you're right, it's gonna be a change. And if you call her she'll kind of help you assess the situation and figure out how to go forward.

Ray Loewe  22:07  

Well, well, we are at the end of our time, unfortunately, yeah. we'll have you back some time. And we'll continue this discussion. Also, Sharon pops on every once in a while to our coffee and cocktail conversation kind of a thing. And

KC Dempster  22:21  

Which they're on Thursdays, coffee in the morning, cocktails in the afternoon, and you can go to our website, theluckiestpeopleintheworld.com. And right on that homepage, there's a button to push to register. So it's easy as pie.

Kris Parsons  22:35  

It's free.

Ray Loewe  22:36  

And if you want to meet people like Sharon, she's not there every week, but she pops on often. And often. You can say hi. And you can get great ideas, whether it's family or professional. So once again, thanks for being with us, Sharon. Thanks for Kris comment, bringing them back.

Ray Loewe

Yeah. And KC, sign off for us.

KC Dempster  22:56  

Okay, well, thank you, everybody, for listening. We will be back in a week with another wonderful and interesting podcast and enjoy the weather while we have it.

Ray Loewe  23:07  

So thank you, everybody.

Diane Dayton  23:10  

Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want, and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topics on Changing the Rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world

Reach Robert at Linfield National Golf Club: www.linfieldnational.com

TRANSCRIPT

Diane Dayton  0:02  

This is Changing the Rules. A podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:13  

Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Changing the Rules. This is KC Dempster and Ray Loewe is with me and we are speaking to you from Wildfire Podcast Studios in beautiful downtown Woodbury. And I have to say, it is a beautiful, beautiful day on unlikely weather for November, but I am embracing it. Because I'm one of the luckiest people in the world. And I planned my life to be this way.

Ray Loewe  0:43  

Okay, good for you. You know, I you mentioned that we're sitting here at beautiful Wildfire Podcast Studios. And I need to make a quick comment about this, because Wildfire has been a wonderful partner with us. You know, we started doing podcasts a little over a year ago, we had no experience, we had no idea what we're doing. We still don't know what we're doing. Okay,

KC Dempster  1:07  

Speak for yourself.

Ray Loewe  1:08  

But But what happened here is that Wildfire led us through the process. And we have a comfortable situation right now. We come down here every other Tuesday and, and record and our engineer Taylor has been wonderful and the people that we've been dealing with has been wonderful. So you know, if you're thinking about doing a podcast at some point in time, start with Wildfire. It's, it's it's a you'll never leave. Right? Okay. All right. So we have a guest today. His name is Robert Kleckner. And, Robert. Just say hi. You're not on yet. But say hi.

Robert Kleckner  1:45  

Good morning, everybody.

Ray Loewe  1:47  

You had to change it Didn't you see? See Robert is one of those who changes the rules. Yeah. All right. And he'll do whatever he wants to do. So when we have this podcast called Dhanging the Rules, it is based around some of the luckiest people in the world. And we define the luckiest people in the world as those people who plan and design their own life. And then they step into it, and they make it work. Right. And you're gonna see in a couple minutes as we go through Robert's story here that he is very definitely one of the luckiest people in the world. And let's start with a quick break here, Taylor, and then we're gonna move right into our interview with Robert.

Diane Dayton  2:31  

You're listening to changing the rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world. We will be right back with more exciting information.

Ray Loewe  2:41  

Okay, I'm on right, KC?

KC Dempster  2:43  

Yes.

Ray Loewe  2:43  

Okay. All right. So I had the opportunity to meet Robert a good 20 plus years ago, okay. And Robert was at that time, a professional golfer, he still is a professional golfer. But over over time, Robert made some strategic moves with I, which changed his life, it's gonna change his family's life very much for the positive, because he's done all the things that the luckiest people in the world to do. So Robert, say hello again. And talk to me a little bit about Linfield National in a general sense, and then we'll get into how you managed to wind up there.

Robert Kleckner  3:27  

Well, good morning, everybody. And it is an absolutely beautiful day, inside and out. And a little bit about Linfield National Golf Course. So I've been at Linfield for 19 years now, an 18 hole public golf course, located right up before 22, Carter, probably about 15 miles from King of Prussia. And it opened in 1997. And as I said, I've been here since '01. So it's been a tremendous, tremendous facility and place to say I come to work every day.

Ray Loewe  4:03  

Well, I think it's a little more than just coming to work because you actually own Linfield Golf Course, don't you?

Robert Kleckner  4:11  

That's correct. So I arrived here in '01 prior to 9/11. And I owned another 9 hole facility at the time. And I sold that and I came in here with two builders. And I ran a couple facilities for the builders. And then in '08, you know, things went sideways, and for building and construction and the economy and I took a negative and turned it into an opportunity. And then in 2012 I settled on the facility. And from that point on, I've been the sole owner of the property and the golf course.

Ray Loewe  4:54  

Okay, so let's break this thing into two pieces because I think you have two lives here. One is you're a professional golfer, right? And number two, you're an entrepreneur. Okay? So So let's talk about this entrepreneur kind of a thing, because here you are, I know, I helped you go through this. But it was 20 years ago, and you had this opportunity to purchase this golf course. And what kind of goes through your head or went through your head, when you had to make these decisions and, and take some risk in order to get the rewards that you want to get?

Robert Kleckner  5:35  

Yeah, so there's many, many, you know, paths or rivers, or everyone explain why this, why this happened. So in '08-09, they were looking, they stopped building things were going very into the economy for the construction was was not in a very good state. And they stopped paying me here. So I was looking at, at possibly getting out of golf business totally. The head professional jobs are few and far between, you know, we're in an oversaturated market at the time of golf courses. And, and I wanted to go primarily into back into the private sector, to be head professional, which that's where I came from. And I looked at other jobs outside of the golf business, whether it was going to be with with gambling, or Wawa or financial institution, insurance company, a lot of people had opportunities for me to, to segue out of the golf industry, and, and go into a different line of work totally, but still using my skills of dealing with people. And I think that's kind of how this all kind of transpired and formed out. So I decided to take it upon myself, I talked to my wife, and she said, I was crazy. Um, when she tells me that a lot, and I went out looking for banks, which in '08, '09, no one wanted, no one would touch this place with a 10 foot pole, or, or six, or in these times six feet. So no one would touch me. And so I shopped the banks. But I shopped the banks, like, I wanted them, I was interviewing them, and then instead of them interviewing me, and in that perspective, I had a lot of banks come back to me. And then I signed an agreement of sale in 2011. And settled in 2012, and then 2013, the economy and everything else started turning in the right direction. And so my toughest obstacle, I'm doing this by myself and not going for any other partners or anyone else. For funds or funding. The toughest thing was the was the hurdle, the bank, but I established a great relationship with a small bank, and still customer to this day. And that's kind of you know, in a quick, quick story on how that all work. There was many, many things I was told 20 times, I couldn't do it. I was told no by many, many people, this isn't going to work, you're not going to be able to do this. But I never stopped trying. Um, and I think that was the biggest thing is I never took no for an answer. And yes, I am a golf professional, and an entrepreneur but I always say I'm an entrepreneur that ended up being a golf professional. So I always had this in  me um, I always had ownership, I always had business sense. I always had wanted to own something, whether it was a Life is Good t shirt store to a candy shop that I I found down in, in in in Kiowah Island, I thought was amazing. So just something like that. And I don't think I set like a passing Oh, I'm going to own a golf course one day, I think just all the hard work on the day to day, day to day day to day, like training for a marathon. You train every day. And then you go out and you run it and I trained every day not realizing I can run it and and it all came through. And a lot of good people I worked at three high end private country clubs around the Philadelphia area and my network is phenomenal. And I never even knew what the word network meant. Or until I got through at all. And I've tremendous amount of people that you can say network I call them friends, friend work. I think they're they're all they're all friends of mine. I could pick up the phone at all levels in the in the community around Philadelphia. And it's pretty cool. I've been as I said, lucky I am lucky. I love coming to work every day. I go on vacation. and I miss this Place. So super fortunate. But I have a great, great family foundation with my parents, and then my wife and my two children, which everyone's always been so supportive, and I think that makes makes it a lot easier being in the golf business or running any business. The Home Front, you know, some days, the business comes first, some days, I come first some days, the family comes first. And I think that's the balance in any successful relationship business. Friendship, there has to be a balance, because it goes one sided one way some one of those areas will and definitely will suffer.

KC Dempster  10:39  

Right? Right. Just this is an aside, do either one of your children play golf.

Robert Kleckner  10:45  

Ah, my son just started.

KC Dempster  10:48  

And how old is he,

Robert Kleckner  10:49  

He is a three sport athlete. He is 15. And then he, he actually made the varsity team, but he you know, he just you know, he's a three sport athlete, and he just picked it up. But they, they, they both this was definitely a home for them for COVID they came up here door and the closing show, they were super blessed. Even though I was closed for seven and a half weeks, from March until May 1, they came up here I still came to work every day. As as so I was blessed. I wasn't open. But we did a lot of projects, the kids could do stuff, they could get on on on their laptops and do school from, you know, from from here. And then when we opened we just, you know, then they were they put some hours in because the sports were basically all canceled. And so they had a lot of time. So they were they were blessed by being and I was blessed to have them be here around me and being able to work and being able to get out and you know, be a little social as best they could not around their friends and peers at school, but at least they had an opportunity. So So back to the question, Bobby does play a little golf. Wendy does play a little and Addie does play little. So they all play a little bit. But they they don't. You know, they, they have their own little paths that they're looking at, which is great. Yeah, which I want them. I want them to create their own path. Sure, I don't want them to create a path for them to come back and say, Okay, I'm gonna run this golf course you take it over, if they finish all their schooling, and they get all the right things in line, and they come back and they want to purchase this from me, then then that would be an option. But other than that, they they're gonna come up with their own careers at this point,

KC Dempster  12:37  

right? It has to be their choice.

Ray Loewe  12:38  

Cool. You know, let's take a minute and talk a little bit about golf as a sport, because I know when I was growing up, it was the it was the sport of country clubs, okay. And a lot of people I know, played all the time, it was a major thing to do. And then, several years ago, I heard that golf was kind of losing its esteem. Because it's so complicated. And if you're going to be any good at the sport, you got to play a lot. And it was frustrating to a lot of people me, especially by the way, okay. And I understand they were taking golf courses, and they were turning them into different kinds of things. So So what's happening with the sport of golf right now? And where is it going? And how is this gonna affect you going forward?

Robert Kleckner  13:26  

Well, I definitely think what has happened since May 1, when we reopened in the state of Pennsylvania, it definitely was a shot of steroid into the golf industry, because the first thing they opened was fishing in Pennsylvania, and then that, and then the next thing was was, was golf. So there wasn't there's three things to do walk in the park, go play golf, or go fishing. So it definitely brought a lot of people back into the sport. I think what happened after there's three booms that I that I've lived through is when I was a young kid, I was a cart kid, and in, you know, the late 80s, early 90s, the AOL tech boom of golf, and then the Tiger boom, and the Tiger boom caused a big influx of golfers but also it caused a big influx of golf courses. So when we after 9/11, we had golf decreasing and an oversaturated market with golf courses. So I think the good thing that has happened since '01-'02 in the Bucks County and Montgomery and Philadelphia area, Westchester area. We've lost golf courses for good reason. So the saturation of golf courses. Is is going down the saturation of golf courses that were in Arizona or the Carolinas or Florida that had construction attached to them. They kind of just went away or plowed over We're in the Philadelphia area. golf courses went away for great reasons the hospital Einstein hospital. We had a couple of developments. Toll Brothers have Ocean Valley, Limekilm, Center Square Phoenixville, a school district, took over Bank of America up to up in Allentown area got another golf course. So we lost a lot of golf course. So back to that. So are we're getting back to a normal inventory or some kind of a normal ratio of golfers to golf courses in the Philadelphia area, which is definitely an asset for private clubs, resorts or public facilities. So I do see golf, I mean it is it is going up, you know, it's just like the market, it's going to correct itself. If it's not sustainable, it's not going to be like this. Next year, it may be a little bit less, but I think there's going to be a lot of people that are going to stay in it. And I think it's the you know, the Generation X and the millenniums or whatever, whatever age category you want to talk about, I think the biggest thing with golf was time. And that's number one. And the other thing with golf is the average golfer back in the 80s used to play 2.5 times a week now the golf average golfer, average golfer plays point five. And because the husband and wife work, you know, little Johnny and Susie play games every Saturday. I mean, you can play baseball year round soccer all year round, field hockey all year round. So lacrosse all year round. So a lot of the weekends are getting sucked up by you know, the husband and wives that can't get out on Saturdays. Now they're going through the games. So that's where this the COVID and the lack, you know, the cut back on the sports and stuff, help some of some of the golfers to play more and I see a lot more youth playing golf, which is phenomenal. I know our youth programs or high school programs are pretty competitive. You know they have cut in golf programs up and up in this area in the past which is Methacten and then Springfield and Phoenixville and Norristown and PV and and Owen j Roberts up in this net. And so that was that was never, that was never an issue. They're always looking for golfers to play these teams or play on the high school team. So you can definitely see the younger generation and it is a lifetime sport. And I can't tell you how many countless athletes where people doesn't they don't necessarily the athletes come through and say, Man, I wish I would have started earlier. I wish I would have you know, started playing because it is a great sport to continue to play as you age up through through your life.

Ray Loewe  17:47  

Yeah. So I wish I would have started playing early. Enjoy fit now. Am I part of the group?

Robert Kleckner  17:55  

Okay, it's never too late. It's never too late to start.

Ray Loewe  17:59  

Okay, well, well at 104. Okay, I, you know, maybe I can pick up a golf club, though. But But, I mean, I think you're right. I think golf is here. I think it's a question of what you guys do to the youth movement too, to keep it going. Let me ask you a couple of other questions, because I know you've put in other things other than golf. So you start with the golf course. And I think you did some things with cell towers and you did some things with indoor golf kinds of things. Talk to us about some of the entrepreneurial moves that you made as far as your organization is concerned.

Robert Kleckner  18:40  

Yes, so you know, anything with you know, originally I worked in the ski business all through high school and college at ski shop and work as a cart kid. And and I always thought I'd be out in Denver working a ski resort in the wintertime and and golf course in the summertime and then eventually one of the design ski boots and be a doctor, Podiatrist and things like that? That was my original thoughts in high school. So when I took over this business, I knew I saw businesses that were seasonal and how, how much of a challenge it is. So I figured I figured out when I'm taking over this facility, I got to figure out how to out what do we do in the book ends? What do I do before and after daylight savings? What do I do at night? What can I do here? And I thought about some things some things did stick and some things didn't. The first thing is the cell tower, which was probably one of my other than, you know, getting married and having kids while a major and graduating college is one of my major accomplishments because literally I talked about being told no, no. When I first took over here I called every cell tower company that I could find and They all told me we you don't call us we call you. So like. Okay. So they said, I said, Okay, well then what do I do for you to call me? And they said, Well, yeah, you have to register your property and, and so on and so forth. So, so I did that. And then it was like a sleeping, you know, Sleeping Bear for about a year and a half, and then all of a sudden, my phone blew up. So I got some calls, and I had a young guy come drive down from New York City, I was his very first customer just started with. the company. And he made it, his, he put it on his platform that I was going to get one, you know, and it's very difficult to get one if you you know, different townships and different restrictions and different heights, and neighborhoods and, and, and of course, you know, the local governments like to have them because of the revenue, which is great. Whether it's the police or fire companies or township buildings, so you know, your, your battle on that, because you have to get it through the township to get it passed. So, um, but I, you know, I've always had great relationships, wherever, wherever I, everywhere I worked, I worked, like I owned the facility, even though I didn't. So I always establish really good relationships with people. And I did a lot of good things in the community always volunteered. And I'm not saying I didn't give to get, but I always gave, and it seems to come around full circle 10-15-20 years later, so that I got it all, you know, took me four years to get it through. So it was not an easy process by any means. And so that was one of them. That was a good accomplishment. Second thing is, uh, I took 3000 square feet of my indoor Golf Club of my clubhouse. And I turned this is seven years ago. This is way before it's hot right now. I mean, golf simulators are the hottest thing in the market right now in the industry, just because of the technology. And, and of course, knowing people want these in their homes, because they, you know, they, they can't do too much at the time back in the fall and early like March and April. And then this winter, you know, everyone wants them in their own home if they can't, if they can't get out. So we built six of them in here, which bridged my basically November for the next six months. So so you can come and play you know, you can play Pebble Beach, you can play Merion, you can play Linfield indoor. And it's a pretty, pretty cool thing. So that that was that was that was really exciting to do that. So

Ray Loewe  22:42  

cool. Well, you know, it's all good things happen when we come to the end of our time. And we actually are over our time over here, Robert, but your story is a wonderful story. No, you're forgiven. But your story is a wonderful story. And I think we can all see why Robert is one of the luckiest people in the world. And some of the things that he's done the perseverance, the the being of unafraid to take some reasonable risks and things like that to expand your business and do things and we're going to have to have you on again, and you're going to have to get me out and teach me how to play golf so that I can enter into the world of old age, you know, with my second sport here, Robert? So so

Robert Kleckner  23:24  

well, one quick thing, right? First ages and number lights and attitude. That's I love to say that and number two, you were a great inspiration, many breakfast meetings with you about all kinds of stuff. So you were part of my path to success with some of your guidance. Thank you.

Ray Loewe  23:45  

Well, thanks for being you. And we'll have you back at sometime soon. So we're at the end of our show, KC. You know, one quick thing I want to remind everybody of is December 2 is our virtual conference. You can register on our website. And if you want to get in touch with Robert, we'll put his website in our podcast notes, so you're going to be able to reach him and everybody get out and play golf. It's a safe sport today. So thanks for being with us.

Diane Dayton  24:14  

Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want, and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topic on changing the rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe luckiest guy in the world.

Find Sharman at www.sharmannittoli.com

TRANSCRIPT

Diane Dayton  0:02  

This is Changing the Rules, a podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe the luckiest guy in the world.

KC Dempster  0:12  

Good morning, everybody. This is KC Dempster. Welcome to Changing the rules. I am here with Ray Loewe. And we have an absolutely fascinating guest for you today. And I hope that a lot of our listeners are in my age group, because it's going to be even more meaningful to you. So we bring interesting people to our podcast, so that the luckiest people in the world, or those who want to be the luckiest people in the world can have their minds expanded as to what they see the vision of their life being.

Ray Loewe  0:45  

Yeah, and I think one of the things as we look at these luckiest people in the world, we kind of see a role model, we kind of see how they did things. And sometimes we find out the things that they did wrong. But the whole idea is there's a journey to becoming one of the luckiest people in the world. And the luckiest of the luckiest continue that journey with no limit.

KC Dempster  1:07  

And often they have to change rules to make their journey their own. But that's what we're all about.

Ray Loewe  1:12  

Oh, yeah, you have to change the rules. Otherwise, it's absolutely no fun. So today we have our special guest add. She's a teacher, she's a musician. She's an actor. She has created music she's performed. And she's just an outstanding person and and there's no end to what she's going to do. So Sharman Nittoli. Say hi to everybody.

Sharman Nittoli  1:41  

Hello, everybody.

Ray Loewe  1:43  

That was that was pretty. That was pretty good. Okay, so, so So tell us you're a young lady right now that's going strong. You're in which career of your life now? 1,2,3,4,8, 10,15. Where are you?

Sharman Nittoli  2:00  

Oh, gosh, it was, you know what, I almost bought some new cameras yesterday, because I had an idea to do another film. And then I stopped for a second and said, oh, let's just finish some of these other projects. So what career am I in? I don't know. I'm gonna say at least 12-13.

Ray Loewe  2:21  

Okay, so let's, let's go back and give people a little history because it's fascinating. I believe I'm correct. When I say Frank, so Frank Sinatra was part of your life once upon a time.

Sharman Nittoli  2:34  

Yeah, a big part of my life. big part of the journey. Yeah.

KC Dempster  2:38  

Well, let's, let's go back to your start. You said that you were a classically trained pianist, or pianist?

Sharman Nittoli  2:45  

Mm hmm. Yes, I was. That was my degree. Mm hmm.

KC Dempster  2:49  

And then and then what did you think that that was going to be your career? how did how did you move into the path that you followed?

Sharman Nittoli  2:57  

Um, I think that was the universe pushing me in different directions. But I did think I would be a teacher. And I did come out of college teaching. And I literally went to met somebody who had a band, and they said, Why don't you join the band? And I said, Okay, and I got on stage and realize, I did have classical training. But I needed a different kind of musicianship in order to function in a band. And I started listening and studying and studying and listening. And that that was a long time ago. And it's it's just been different bands, different styles, different genres, different doors to go through.

KC Dempster  3:40  

You mentioned a band that was very prominent in my growing up, The Duprees.

Sharman Nittoli  3:48  

Yeah. Yeah, I was the Duprees. My husband and I both for about 10 years working in the band. And I was working as the musical director on keyboards and doing arrangements. And yeah, it was a really terrific opportunity to work some major showrooms and to meet some of the classic groups that we grew up with. And just to see the enthusiasm of the people, my goodness, you could not contain them. As soon as they heard that song.  they jumped on and kept where they were, they jumped on their feet and said, Honey, remember that?

KC Dempster  4:29  

Yeah, that was the Rivieras and the Duprees were very large factors in my high school years. They were favorites at all the dances.

Ray Loewe  4:38  

Okay, yeah. We can get caught up in the past over here, but we got to go on to the future because, because Are you willing to share with everybody your age, Sharman?

Sharman Nittoli  4:50  

I'm going to be 71

Ray Loewe  4:52  

Okay,

Sharman Nittoli  4:53  

Seventy-one years young

Ray Loewe  4:55  

and you're just starting your next career because you will From all of this performing with the stars on stage, and you're still doing some interesting things didn't you did? Didn't you just go to San Francisco not too long ago to play? Tell us tell us about the experience real quickly.

Sharman Nittoli  5:15  

Well, I it was la that I work in LA for a while playing piano in a couple of the clubs, the restaurants, clubs, you know, Ray, it's really, it's just amazing that a door will close and then the phone will ring. You know, sometimes, you know what I mean? It's just the opportunity is there if you're willing to take the shot, and and I did you know, um, so yeah, that was terrific. That was a great thing.

Ray Loewe  5:44  

Okay, now, you also made a movie not too long ago. Yeah, give us the short version of the movie.

Sharman Nittoli  5:52  

Okay. We'll give you the short version. My husband is also a musician, and an actor who has worked as a stand in and an acting but he's working as a stan- up for Joe Pesci for many, many years. He wrote a screenplay years ago, that was about his life in the music business, which is some 60-70 years. And he just decided last year, he's, my husband is going to be 85 that he wanted to do it. So we tried to sell the script, we didn't have any luck. So he just said, Let's do this. And that's what we did. We did it. And we just, we just took it step by step. And I in my prayers every day, I always thank God for for YouTube, because YouTube saved my life! you know, I learned so much about sound and, and editing, editing was a huge job music editing, film, editing, just so many things. We finished it in a year, we decided after going the route with the festivals to put it up on Amazon Prime. And that's where it is now. Our cast. We're all mostly all friends. And a few of our friends are professional actors who happen to be in it. But the one of the main characters is Joey Long from the Four Seasons, who is was one of the characters because Alfred had worked with him before he joined the Seasons. So um, yeah, it we've bounced back and forth from the present to the past, flashbacks about how this business has changed. So so much. And, you know, there used to be music seven nights a week. There isn't anymore. God knows not right now. Right?

KC Dempster  7:34  

Right. Quickly, though, tell us the name of your movie so people can go look for it.

Sharman Nittoli  7:39  

It's Does The Band Eat, which is a phrase that musicians when someone is booking a band, for the weddings and such that used to be a big negotiating factor. Because if the band eats, I can give you a better price. And we would always find out that when we got there we were eating but we weren't eating what they were eating.

KC Dempster  8:01  

You had the bologna sandwich on white bread with no mayonnaise, right.

Sharman Nittoli  8:06  

Stale bread. Yeah. needed a toothpick to keep it all together.

Ray Loewe  8:11  

Okay, I think you know those few comments, and I'd love to spend more time talking about the past. Well,

KC Dempster  8:19  

I was gonna say you teach the listeners by mentioning Frank Sinatra, I think you need to ask Sharma to tell them about that.

Sharman Nittoli  8:27  

Quickly, I'll give you the cliff notes. So when I graduated college, I was a classically trained and went through the folk era of the protest era and all that stuff. But I was not into jazz, and I was not into standards. But then life put me in a particular position. And also with my husband, who had had had played in bands that did that he conceived of this idea to write a song called Here's to the Musicians. That would be people like Sinatra and Tony Bennett, thanking the musicians in the band, not just the arrangers, not just the writers, but the wonderful the top of the line musicians that made it all happen. We took it to a third person, Artie Shrek who was extremely talented, and he kind of refined it and changed it up a bit and it became Here's to the Band. And after hustling is all I could say in a variety of ways. One and a half years later, the song was recorded by Frank Sinatra in 1983. And then Liza Minnelli and then Sammy Davis, Jr. and then a miss runner up for Miss America. I don't fully get that, but but it didn't matter. I got the residuals. So

KC Dempster  9:47  

that's awesome.

Ray Loewe  9:47  

Cool. Now Now I want to get into the future of where you're going in a minute. But But you mentioned something when we did our pre interview about you got one of these devices attached to Google. I don't Remember, it's not Alexa. And it's not Siri, I don't remember who it was. But you said something about play Sharman and what happened?

Sharman Nittoli  10:09  

Right. And it played Sharman. My dream is a dream, I had to become an independent artist. And I, you know, went through a variety of changes. But at some point, I finally sat down. And again, you know, my husband helped me and produce me, we got this song done. So someone gave me a little this CD done, called Unconditionally, which you can get on Amazon and iTunes, but unconditionally is this is a song that was dedicated to our beloved dog who runs this house. And, and so I was sitting there and I say, gave me a Google music a little, the little disc, a little round thing. And I said, Hey, Google, play Sharmin and lo and behold, I heard my song and I just teared up because it was a journey. And it probably something I should have would have could have, but I didn't. But I finally got it done. And it was a joy. It's just I can't even tell you is just to have my music out there. Wonderful.

KC Dempster  11:16  

No regrets, huh?

Ray Loewe  11:18  

Okay, no, no, no, no. Go ahead. No, you're running. It's good. Well, let me let me tell you why Sharman is one of the luckiest people in the world. You know, we've got all this past history over here. All these wonderful things that she did, you know, playing with these big name people, building her career writing, music, all of that. But now if you go to her website, and and Sharman, what is your website? Let's tell everybody that right now.

Sharman Nittoli  11:46  

Okay. So, during the last five years, I developed a project called LiveYour Bloom. I consider myself despite being an industrious hard worker for any job I ever did. But I never committed myself to my own projects, my own dreams, my own some of these songs I wrote 20 years ago, and I never recorded them. So I studied, I learned about procrastination, why we do it things that we put off all of that stuff, which makes total sense to me now. And I wrote a project off of it called Live your Bloom. Before the pandemic, I was performing it in a variety of churches. And it was such I hate to say senior groups, I, let's say, like blooming groups. And the whole point of the project is, is there something that you haven't done that you really want to do? And why aren't you doing it? Now, that that could be anything that could be dancing, it could be art, it could be reading, it could be acting, it could be anything? Is there something that is haunting you, I call it a dream seed that you planted a long time ago, and you just never watered and by this time, you built up such a wall of those limiting beliefs. It's too late. I'm too old, who cares, it's a waste of money. It's this, this and this, but if it's still in your head, it needs to be born. And and that's what my project is about. I have a group of on Facebook, I call them bloomers that we, we get together and support each other. I have a course that I just developed, I'm just going to be releasing it in a couple of weeks called It's Your Time to Bloom. Because people have a number of reasons why they don't address it. But I think as long as you're breathing, even if your health is limiting, but you're still moving and thinking, I think you can you can you can pay attention to your dream, develop it, and you're going to be a lot happier, a lot more fulfilled if you just reprioritize and put yourself at the top instead of the bottom, because the bottom never gets done.

KC Dempster  14:09  

Right. And I think you said excuse me, that when you retired, which people have in their own understanding of what that means that you were going to work as hard for yourself as you had worked for others.

Sharman Nittoli  14:23  

That's right. And, and I did. Although the beautiful thing about being retired is that when I'm I am truly tired, because maybe I've been working hard or I just feel like if I want to put my feet up for the day, and watch reruns. That's what I do. And I have I have learned not to feel guilty about it. But I will tell you when I did my CD the first one, 12 hours a day I was working, I was living in my pajamas second CD I did with my husband, same thing you know, it's just you just immerse yourself. In it, and it's joyful. It's frustrating. There's anxiety, but you're, you're, you're so close to that thing that you've been bottled up for so long. And you're living it. And there's just no feeling like it. And the movie, forget about that. That was just I can't even tell you I read, I literally was living in the same pair of pajamas at one point for two weeks. Just walking like a crazy person, you know? It I mean, joyful, but stressful, but good. And then you go back, and you can always think of 1000 things you should have would have could have. But there's just something to be said for getting it done getting it out there and moving on with all the new knowledge and experience you've gained from that, from that exposure from what you did?

Ray Loewe  15:54  

You know, it's a shame. You're not passionate about this. You know, you had you had five quotes on your website, and I pulled them off, because I want to talk about them briefly. Some of them we mentioned, but but I think they deserve some emphasis. You know, the first thing that you said is there's a lot of limiting beliefs about aging. And you hit that a little bit, but but there's no reason I, you know, no reason to stop, other than the fact that you think you're getting old, right?

Sharman Nittoli  16:24  

Yeah, I mean, chronologically, sure, you know, I'm definitely on the other side of the halfway mark, you know, but and I, and I, you know, I have aches and pains. I was a rock and roll musician, I was a keyboard player, I carried all that stuff, you know, right. And we, I have my aches and pains, I have my issues, I have my things. But, you know, you find how can I deal with this. As long as you can deal and keep moving, you keep moving. Because sometimes we have things thrust upon us that we cannot change and control and adapt to. But as long as we're breathing and moving, there's always something to be done that will expand our mind. And I'm a big believer that you expand your mind and become a happier person, you're going to effect that kind of happiness and joy in the world. We need more of that open mind, you know, those open minds, you know what I mean? Ray? It's just, we are so closed and polarized, we just, well, it's not something you can read about in a book to fix. I think it's just something that has to come from inside.

Ray Loewe  17:32  

Well, and it comes from people like you and having conversations with other people like you. And you know, the there's another comment you made that I want you to comment on. And it's the difference between living and just existing.

Sharman Nittoli  17:46  

Yeah, yeah.

Ray Loewe  17:48  

You're you're living now. But But look at all the friends that you have. And I know I have that are existing because they're not letting themselves. They're limited by their aging, put it that way.

KC Dempster  17:59  

Well, and I think that Sharman threw a word out in her last comments call, she said expand. And that's something that that we always talk about with the luckiest people in the world. They're constantly expanding their horizons, you know, whether it's places they want to go things that they want to do. You just you, you know, if you continue to expand, and and if you continue to be an open minded, interesting person, that's who you draw to you.

Sharman Nittoli  18:28  

Yeah, that's true. That's true. KC. Yeah. And you know, what I was thinking the other day is like, with our kids and our grandkids, and certainly with all of my students, didn't I spend a lot of time trying to guide them in that direction? What's your purpose? What are you interested in? What do you want to do? What can we do to back that up to give you the tools you're going to need? And we do that for our kids, So Why don't we do that for ourselves? So, yes, somewhere along the line, it becomes all about everybody else, and not about us.

Ray Loewe  19:03  

Well, here's the next comment that you made on your website. And I think we bring it out to everybody. What a joyful, amazing feeling to be living the best part of my life right now. It's you It's, that's your comment. That's your quote. And I want it is going to be my quote, too, because because it's so true. Why put a limit all this fits together, there's no limit. And you can you can, it's all what's happening in your mind and your passion. So I think this is absolutely wonderful. Sharman, I think you're doing a great a great job. Now you did a great job in the past, taking care of all those music people. Okay, and you're not done. Okay. Add your last comment on here is I want to share what I've learned with you. So how are you doing that? How can we help you do that?

Sharman Nittoli  19:56  

Well, two ways if people are interested Did they can go to my website, just Sharmannittoli.com, short and sweet, where I talk about the program, the Facebook site I have where I do live concerts and sometimes go live. And we talk about  things that are standing in people's ways. A lot of what stands in people's ways that we try to address is that other people don't approve of what up their choices they're making now. And so we talk about claiming your time and being able to say no, and these are real problems. And the other way is, I'm launching this course at some point, but I'm going to do a whole bunch of online talking about the course and about the the the tools that are needed in order to how can I say this, some people come up to me and say, like, I really want to dance. And if you say to them, what's stopping you, I, you know, you're not in a wheelchair, so what's stopping you? And they'll be oh my husband doesn't want me to waste the money. And I don't want that, that, that of that data. And I and I'm like, Well, what would happen if you just said, I'm doing this? Deal with it? And it's gonna make me happier and have I'm happier, you're happier? And isn't that a good thing? Aren't you happy that I want to expand myself, you know? So, but to start with, I would just ask if people would like to come on my site. And if they are happy with what they see, subscribe by communicate with. I'm always sending out communications about articles that I'm reading and things I'm, I'm coming across that can help us all, live, this part of our life with joy is not just living and living can't just be well, I got all my medications on the table I got I got this, I got that no that. There's more, there's more.

Ray Loewe  21:57  

Well, you know, everybody, I have to tell you, you have to go to Sharman's website, and we're gonna post the website, you know, with our with our podcast notes. But she's got snippets of music that she and her husband have done and are doing together some of the stuff that she she's done in the past. It's just, it's a joyful website, and Sharman, you know, the best of luck to you. You don't need the lock, you're good just going to be making happen. And this last quote, and I want to end with this, what a joyful, amazing feeling to be living the best part of my life now. And that's why you are one of the luckiest people in the world. And Sharman, thanks so much for being with us.

Sharman Nittoli  22:43  

Oh, my pleasure. And I just want to compliment you both on this program. This was just just was just a wonderful thing to discover. And I'm honored to be here. Thank you so much.

Ray Loewe  22:54  

Okay, well, we'll be in touch. And KC, tell us what's going to happen next week? Well, no, because I haven't told you.

KC Dempster  23:00  

That's right. But I'm sure we're gonna have another wonderful, interesting person to talk to. And so everybody keep coming back because we've got great stuff for you.

Ray Loewe

All right, everybody. And thanks, Taylor, and thanks, everybody, for being here.

Diane Dayton  23:15  

Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want, and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topic on changing the rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, luckiest guy in the world.