Church and Main

In an era of social media influencers and viral hot takes, the word "prophetic" gets thrown around constantly — but usually it just means "someone saying things I agree with."  Dennis Sanders sits down with writer and communications professional Ryan Self to dig into what the biblical prophets actually looked like, and why today's version often falls dangerously short.

Ryan, who writes the Substack Ryan's Boring Book Club, recently published a two-part series — Preachers, Prophets, and Politicians — examining how the religious left and right are both falling into the same trap: mistaking tribal partisanship for genuine moral courage. From megachurch pastors building empires on outrage clicks, to progressive Christian influencers spreading election conspiracies, to politicians wrapping their campaigns in the language of the gospel, Dennis and Ryan explore how audience capture, social media incentives, and the hunger for a platform are quietly eroding the church's credibility.

Shownotes:

Preachers, Prophets and Politicians (Part 1)

Preachers, Prophets and Politicians (Part Two)

Don't make Colbert a free speech martyr

Related Episodes:

LGBTQ Allies and Effective Inclusion with Ryan Self | Episode 243

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The term "Christian nationalism" is everywhere — but is it actually helping us understand our political moment, or making things worse? Princeton Theological Seminary professor Heath Carter joins host Dennis to make a provocative case: the term has become so broad and loosely applied that it's lost its usefulness, and may be deepening the very polarization it aims to diagnose.

Carter argues that while genuinely dangerous, illiberal movements exist — think theocrats actively working to undermine pluralistic democracy — the label too often gets applied to any Christian who voted for Trump. That kind of broad brush lets mainline Protestants off the hook for their own role in America's political story, while alienating the very voters the left needs to win back.

The conversation ranges from the forgotten history of progressive Christianity and the Social Gospel, to the Democratic Party's complicated relationship with faith, to why curiosity and genuine engagement may matter more than the right terminology. Carter also reflects on what politicians like James Talarico can teach us about speaking the language of faith without surrendering pluralism.

Shownotes:

Americans Should Stop Using the Term "Christian Nationalism" (Heath's article in The Atlantic

Heath Carter's website

Related Episodes:

Is Christian Nationalism Really A Problem? with Ted Peters | Episode 181

Did Mainline Protestants Birth Christian Nationalism with Beau Underwood | Episode 186

Christian Nationalism or Christian Conservatism with Mark Tooley | Episode 195

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What if communion was more than a ritual squeezed between the offering and the sermon? I sat down with the Reverend Dr. Jarrod Longbons, pastor of Peachtree Christian Church in Atlanta, to explore what it means for the church to be a Eucharistic community. Jarrod makes the case that the Lord's Supper isn't just a worship practice — it's a social imagination that can reshape everything from how we care for the unhoused to how we sit with people we profoundly disagree with.

Jarrod and I look into why the old model of church as a voluntary association is breaking down, what a eucharist-oriented church could look like, and how gathering around a shared table can bind people together in a world that keeps pulling them apart.

Shownotes:

When Institutions Fade: The Church As A Eucharistic Movement (from Jarrod's Podcast, Complex Creatures)

Related Episodes:

Resurrection Hope Amidst the Broken Politics of 2025 with Drew McIntyre

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What do you really know about Anne Boleyn? Most of us remember her as Henry VIII's ill-fated second wife — and not much more. But according to Martha Tatarnic, Anglican priest and author of Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History, we've been missing the bigger picture entirely.

Martha returns to the podcast to explore Anne Boleyn as a serious religious reformer whose influence on the English Reformation — and the Anglican Church — has been vastly underestimated. History painted her as a seductress rather than a scholar.  Victim-blaming narratives have shaped her legacy for centuries, and Martha shares what recovering her true story means for the church today.

Shownotes:

Martha's website

Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History

When IDIC Met the Culture War (Dennis' Article)

Related Episodes:

Talking About Success and Failure in the Church with Martha Tatarnic | Episode 218

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Many progressive and moderate Christians are passionate about justice, inclusion, and showing up for their neighbors. But what if in pursuing all the right causes, we've quietly set aside the message that makes us Christian in the first place?

Jackson Campbell Walker knows this tension firsthand. As a gay pastor who has navigated both conservative evangelical and progressive Baptist spaces, he has watched well-meaning churches slowly replace the grace of God with the works of people. 

Jackson and Dennis get honest about what it feels like to be clergy who love both the gospel and justice, and why those two things should never have to compete. They talk about the quiet crisis of trust underneath it all — how, when we stop believing God is at work, we scramble to fill the void with programs, politics, and causes. 

This is a conversation for anyone who has ever felt caught between their faith and their convictions — and wondered if they had to choose.

Shownotes:

Trading the Cross for a cause (Jackson's article)

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What does it mean to "submit to governing authorities" — and does that command require Christians to accept whatever their government does without question?

I sat down with Chris Nye, lead pastor of Imago Dei Community in Portland, Oregon, to take a closer look at one of the most frequently cited — and frequently misused — passages in political discourse: Romans 13:1. From immigration enforcement to protests in the streets, this text keeps resurfacing, often wielded as a call for unconditional obedience to whoever holds power.

Chris argues that reading Romans 13 in isolation misses the point entirely. Placed within the sweep of Paul's letter — and alongside 1 Peter — a richer picture emerges: one built on a higher law of God, a coming judgment, and a vision of the church as a holy nation that transcends any political order.

Shownotes:

Chris Nye's website

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In this candid and wide-ranging conversation, I sat down with my friend and media commentator Andrew Donaldson to wrestle with one of the most uncomfortable questions facing American Christianity today: Is the public display of faith we're seeing from figures like Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth genuine witness — or just performance?

This is a conversation about our failings, the danger of chasing validation over transformation, and what it really means to live out your faith when no one is looking.

Shownotes:

Heard Tell (Andrew's Substack)

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Jerry Mitchell comes to the podcast to discuss his Christian Chronicle article. Jerry argues that America's deepest crisis isn't political — it's spiritual. From the erosion of humility and kindness to our growing inability to honestly confront our own sins, Jerry makes the case that the nation is sliding toward collapse for one simple reason: we have traded godliness for gaslighting, and piety for partisanship.

Shownotes:

Can America change its course before it’s too late? The answer is up to us (Jerry Mitchell)

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Dennis Sanders sits down with Michael Baharaeen, chief political analyst for The Liberal Patriot, to explore the growing crisis of political polarization in America. Drawing on data, history, and his own experience working in national politics, Baharain examines how Americans have increasingly sorted themselves into politically homogenous communities, fueled by the decline of shared public spaces, the rise of social media, and a two-party system that leaves little room for nuance. The conversation covers the real dangers this polarization poses to democracy — from eroding trust between neighbors to the risk of sustained political violence — while also offering practical paths forward.

Shownotes:

Growing Tribalism Threatens the American Experiment (Michael Baharaeen)

How everyday Americans can help pull their democracy back from the brink (Michael Baharaeen)

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In part two of his conversation with Lutheran Pastor Rob Maialis, host Dennis Sanders turns the lens toward the youngest generation entering adulthood. Is there a genuine religious revival happening among Gen Z, or are we measuring the wrong things?

Together, they explore what it might look like for mainline churches to truly meet Gen Z rather than simply wait for them, and how an unlikely partnership between the oldest and youngest generations in the pew might be exactly what both groups need.

Shownotes:

Gen Z's Religious Revival Likely Escapes Notice (Rob's Article)

Lectionary Greek Blog

Related Episode:

The Church and the Three-Quarter Life Crisis with Rob Myallis | Episode 273

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